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#61 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 09:37 AM
 
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Well, some doctors have poor people skills or think it's acceptable to use scare tactics when talking to kids. I'm happy to have the doctor talk to me and let me disseminate the info to ds in a way that I think is appropriate.


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#62 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 10:43 AM
 
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Pushing babies to eat, then being surprised when they fail to realize when they are full when they're older is an issue. Education can help with that.
 

 

Yep.  I came from a food pusher family.  I was forced (as in not being allowed to get up from the table) to eat whatever and how much my mom put on my plate.  I am not talking about encouraging a kid to try a bite of a new food.  I am talking about cups of mashed potatoes, huge slabs of meat sliding off the plate, multiple servings of beans, more food then an adult should eat.  It was crazy.  As a result, I am NEVER full, ever.  It is like I lost that "switch" that tells my brain I am full.  I am 70+ pounds over weight, eat (almost) only homemade, good foods (no junk) and can't stop eating.

 

 

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Add in the fact that many people have no idea how delicious eating beans, lentils and the like can be - and how un time consuming they can be with some advanced planning - you can easily see how in certain areas the unhealthy 'tastes good' food wins out.

 

Thankfully I am able to hit the bulk stores for healthy foods, but left to shop around here? Produce bill triples - easily...along with everything else.

 

Recently I listened to a very interesting radio segment about the difference between being poor and food challenged two or three generations ago and poor and food challenged now.  Basically, the point was made that the shift in food stamp benefits towards making it easier for people to buy "junk" or packaged foods, juices, sodas, etc. has created a huge public health issue in the form of obescity, that generations back people were cooking bulk oatmeal, beans and like because that is all they had.  I don't know if it is true (about past generations) but it sort of makes sense to me.


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#63 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 11:52 AM
 
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Nonsence. Food stamps makes it easier to buy quality foods. Without it, many people would have to depend on things like wic. I dont consider wic foods quality foods. For eg, you are forced to get peanut butter full of hydrogenated oils, rather than the one containing healthy oils. The milk is junk milk, you certainly cant get organic milk. It is not a matter of price. Cereals full of genetically modified corn and so on....

 

I am glad i dont depend on the government to tell me what is healthy (as you do  on wic)

 

Foods stamps just gives  people choice.  Educate the parents, or let them educate themselves. But dont take food money away from the poor.

 

(thats the worst solution i have ever heard of to combat obesity)

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#64 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 12:27 PM
 
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Yep.  I came from a food pusher family.  I was forced (as in not being allowed to get up from the table) to eat whatever and how much my mom put on my plate.  I am not talking about encouraging a kid to try a bite of a new food.  I am talking about cups of mashed potatoes, huge slabs of meat sliding off the plate, multiple servings of beans, more food then an adult should eat.  It was crazy.  As a result, I am NEVER full, ever.  It is like I lost that "switch" that tells my brain I am full.  I am 70+ pounds over weight, eat (almost) only homemade, good foods (no junk) and can't stop eating.

 

 

 

Recently I listened to a very interesting radio segment about the difference between being poor and food challenged two or three generations ago and poor and food challenged now.  Basically, the point was made that the shift in food stamp benefits towards making it easier for people to buy "junk" or packaged foods, juices, sodas, etc. has created a huge public health issue in the form of obescity, that generations back people were cooking bulk oatmeal, beans and like because that is all they had.  I don't know if it is true (about past generations) but it sort of makes sense to me.


I don't feel ever full either. I mean, I have to be stuffed and bloated before I feel full. I guess I never realized the food pusher and obesity and not feeling full were probably all related.

We eat no HFCS, and 80% of our diet is whole grains, whole food - wholesome food...so I am starting to feel fuller than I use to eating processed food (boxed noodles and the like) ...My husband is thin and he eats the same amount as I do - he is more active than I. I have started a 45 minutes of exercise (zumba, yoga, bellydance etc) every day or every other day recently. I definitely feel better!

 

I actually agree with the radio show. I am NOT saying to take food stamps away from the poor because it does help people make quality choices if they want to..BUT - if every one had to only eat what they actually could grow and afford - we would see more oatmeal, and beans and 'depression' era servings of meat and dairy than we do now.

If you had $4 for food are you going to spend it on a box of oatmeal and some butter or a box of fruit by the foot....

I think that sounds like the point the show was making and I agree with that.


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#65 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Nonsence. Food stamps makes it easier to buy quality foods. Without it, many people would have to depend on things like wic. I dont consider wic foods quality foods. For eg, you are forced to get peanut butter full of hydrogenated oils, rather than the one containing healthy oils. The milk is junk milk, you certainly cant get organic milk. It is not a matter of price. Cereals full of genetically modified corn and so on....

 

I am glad i dont depend on the government to tell me what is healthy (as you do  on wic)

 

Foods stamps just gives  people choice.  Educate the parents, or let them educate themselves. But dont take food money away from the poor.

 

(thats the worst solution i have ever heard of to combat obesity)


We've actually hit hard times recently (we live in an area where tourism is a lot of the $$ maker) and have to use the food stamp system periodically.

If we didn't have food stamps we could not eat as healthy as we do. Absolutely costco organic fruits and vegetables in bulk and their beans and rice and all the healthy options they have - HELP with us eating healthy...

However, I had a neighbor who had foodstamps who considered those kinds of food 'poor foods' and would spend the last $4 on a box of (no generic!) cereal over oatmeal. Just poor food choices and I wondered at the time if she would make the same choices if they didn't have more foodstamps coming in XX days and she really had to spend that last amount of food on some thing that was really food.

 

I hope you kwim. I don't think taking away food stamps from people in this economy would solve anything, but there is some truth to the observation made by the radio show IMHO.


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#66 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 12:50 PM
 
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Blaming obesity on food stamps is illogical. A hundred years ago, people didn't have the option of buying boxed meals, sodas, etc., because they weren't available to purchase. So, they bought beans, oatmeal, etc. The processed, boxed, packaged food has become very, very cheap (and convenient), so people buy it. Food stamps aren't the issue. Cheap, crappy food is the issue. (Well, I think there are multiple issues, but that's one of them - a big one.)

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#67 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In the days before food stamps, not very many poor people were obese, true, however many of them were malnourished and even starving. Overweight is better than starving.
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#68 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 01:18 PM
 
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As far as not wanting the doc to speak directly to my child, I have this to say: I am someone who has suffered from an eating disorder. As such, I know how damaging and confusing a single comment can be to a child who never thought there was anything wrong with his/her body, and now suddenly they are being told that their is something wrong. I don't trust everyone to know what that is like, and sometimes docs can get removed from situations in regards to empathy because they see so many patients or what not. Some doctors are brilliant but can't seem to relate to people on a compassionate level. It's not always their fault, but I have experienced it many times.

Even a very empathetic person can say something very damaging. Because I have so much personal experience, I want to be the one to decide whether or not or how something will be said to my child regarding his weight.
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#69 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 01:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

In the days before food stamps, not very many poor people were obese, true, however many of them were malnourished and even starving. Overweight is better than starving.


Sometimes being overweight can be the result of not getting enough nutrition though: the body isn't getting enough vitamins and minerals from the low quality food, so it keeps sending the "hungry" message even when the caloric needs have been exceeded.

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#70 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 01:40 PM
 
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I have lunch with her class often so I know that some of these kids are rail thin even though they eat snack cakes and Lunchables every day.  They won't drink water, ask for soda.  And still, they're skinny.  It's not always fair.

 

I've seen this too. The skinniest boy in my DS's class is also the one whose mom brings him McDonald's for lunch regularly, sends Oreos for his morning snack, etc. So judging solely by the weight of the child can be deceiving -- this boy's mother isn't a better parent than the rest of us because her kid manages to stay skinny despite his poor diet, you know? 

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#71 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 03:11 PM
 
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The very fact that diabetics are instantly cured of diabetes when they have gastric bypass tells me that the story is much more complicated than calories in-calories out. So much we accept as fact that does not make sense always.


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#72 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 04:16 PM
 
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As a physician, I see children of all shapes, and although I share my colleagues' concern about the heath consequences of obesity, I'm also concerned that overweight children end up bearing the brunt of these legitimate worries because their (often genetically determined) response to non-nutritious food and sedentary lifestyles is visible, while a slender child may be just as inactive and may eat equally unhealthy processed foods. The health consequences for this child can start out invisible until a medical investigation shows blood sugar or cardiovascular problems. That's why I ask all families about their diet and exercise habits, regardless of their body-mass index. I find that non-judgmental education, and addressing obstacles to change such as difficulty obtaining access to affordable healthy foods or limited time to prepare them, goes much further than a shaming approach. Many parents are aware of the problems and just need encouragement and practical advice, such as quick whole-food recipes and the little-known fact that at least in my state (Oregon), local food coops and farmers' market vendors accept food stamps for organic produce. Sure, there are always folks who don't want to change, but I find the vast majority experience economic and educational rather than motivational obstacles.

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#73 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 04:22 PM
 
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 the little-known fact that at least in my state (Oregon), local food coops and farmers' market vendors accept food stamps for organic produce.

 

Cool!  I wonder if that's true here in northern CA.


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#74 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 04:38 PM
 
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Sometimes being overweight can be the result of not getting enough nutrition though: the body isn't getting enough vitamins and minerals from the low quality food, so it keeps sending the "hungry" message even when the caloric needs have been exceeded.



I've actually seen this happen. I know a kid who always asks for third, fourth, and sometimes fifth, slices of bread (just as an example). His family eats plain white bread. When eating a whole wheat/multigrain bread, he stopped at two (a sandwich) and had no interest in any more. While I don't think multigrain bread is the most nutrient dense food available, it's definitely more so than white bread packed with corn syrup, yk? I saw him do the same thing with a lot of other foods...always wanting a bunch of hot dogs, but satisfied with half the amount of good quality meat, etc. It was the first time I realized that he was overweight (not obese), but also malnourished. He wasn't hungry for the calories - they were just a byproduct of his hunger for micronutrients.

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The very fact that diabetics are instantly cured of diabetes when they have gastric bypass tells me that the story is much more complicated than calories in-calories out. So much we accept as fact that does not make sense always.

Type II diabetes (an autoimmune disease) occurs in response to excess fat (adipose tissue) and no one understands why at this point (research just beginning!).  Yes, when you lose the weight, the disease vanishes.  Also, 25% of obese individuals will not develop Type II diabetes...no one knows why yet.  The other 75% will progress to active disease.

 

Put simply, the immune system goes haywire in response to excess fat.  

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#76 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 07:02 PM
 
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I think there's a huge difference between a healthy active kid who is a little higher on the BMI curve and a child who can't walk half a block without gasping for breath and who wears adult XXL gym shorts year-round because they're the only garments that go around the middle and don't drag on the ground.

very true!

 

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Type II diabetes (an autoimmune disease) occurs in response to excess fat (adipose tissue) and no one understands why at this point (research just beginning!).  Yes, when you lose the weight, the disease vanishes.  Also, 25% of obese individuals will not develop Type II diabetes...no one knows why yet.  The other 75% will progress to active disease.

 

Put simply, the immune system goes haywire in response to excess fat.  

 

and diabetes is not the only health problem an obese child faces 

 

 

 

 

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Well, some doctors have poor people skills or think it's acceptable to use scare tactics when talking to kids. I'm happy to have the doctor talk to me and let me disseminate the info to ds in a way that I think is appropriate.

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As a physician, I see children of all shapes, and although I share my colleagues' concern about the heath consequences of obesity, I'm also concerned that overweight children end up bearing the brunt of these legitimate worries because their (often genetically determined) response to non-nutritious food and sedentary lifestyles is visible, while a slender child may be just as inactive and may eat equally unhealthy processed foods. The health consequences for this child can start out invisible until a medical investigation shows blood sugar or cardiovascular problems. That's why I ask all families about their diet and exercise habits, regardless of their body-mass index. I find that non-judgmental education, and addressing obstacles to change such as difficulty obtaining access to affordable healthy foods or limited time to prepare them, goes much further than a shaming approach. Many parents are aware of the problems and just need encouragement and practical advice, such as quick whole-food recipes and the little-known fact that at least in my state (Oregon), local food coops and farmers' market vendors accept food stamps for organic produce. Sure, there are always folks who don't want to change, but I find the vast majority experience economic and educational rather than motivational obstacles.

 

I would expect that if a Dr didn't discuss it that would be neglectful! 

 

 

I do find it perplexing that some think you can keep the information (and think it's good too) from a teenage child (6th grade age) that they are "at risk" and not knowing is beneficial. Short of a bubble I don't see it happening or working IRL.

 

I don't get how you tell the Dr not to speak to the child about it - that would really cause "red flag" IMO and make the Dr really wonder about the parent and the child's lifestyle.


 

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#77 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 08:09 PM
 
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Type II diabetes (an autoimmune disease) occurs in response to excess fat (adipose tissue) and no one understands why at this point (research just beginning!).  Yes, when you lose the weight, the disease vanishes.  Also, 25% of obese individuals will not develop Type II diabetes...no one knows why yet.  The other 75% will progress to active disease.

 

Put simply, the immune system goes haywire in response to excess fat.  


The way I have seen it work in family members who have had the disease is that they are completely insulin dependent diabetic...They got the surgery and they were told never to take insulin again. They were STILL obese/fat when they came out of the surgery. It has been four months for my step mom since the surgery and she was told she was cured and has not had one drop of insulin since she had the surgery. She was still fat, (but she is now down 90 pounds). This has happened to two diabetic family members.

Gastric bypass did not automatically make them thin. The researchers speculate at this point that the gut bacteria is different in obese and something about the surgery corrects that and the diabetes goes away. I believe John Hopkins Univ. is where the research is going on at.

 

Basically, with people who get this surgery the disease vanishes before the fat does.


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#78 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 08:39 PM
 
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I do find it perplexing that some think you can keep the information (and think it's good too) from a teenage child (6th grade age) that they are "at risk" and not knowing is beneficial. Short of a bubble I don't see it happening or working IRL.

I don't get how you tell the Dr not to speak to the child about it - that would really cause "red flag" IMO and make the Dr really wonder about the parent and the child's lifestyle.

I for one never said that the child should not know if something is wrong. If the child had an actually problem then of course the doc is going to discuss it with them depending on the age (for instance, if a child is three years old and is diagnosed with leukemia then that will be communicated to the parents first). But if the only problem the doc sees is that the child is overweight, then in my opinion any communication regarding that needs to go from the doc to the parent and then to the child if the parent sees it as an actual problem. A child not fitting into a category concerning their BMI may not be a real problem.

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#79 of 196 Old 05-28-2013, 10:25 PM
 
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Cool!  I wonder if that's true here in northern CA.

not all of them, but many of them do so here in N CA (that is california).

 

btw there are local organizations helping poorer areas get access to fresh food. the sad part is that the same organizations have found they need to also teach them how to cook or else they dont know what to do with say butternut squash or a healthier way to cook carrots. they do simple food demonstrations. 


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#80 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 01:03 AM
 
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I don't feel ever full either. I mean, I have to be stuffed and bloated before I feel full. I guess I never realized the food pusher and obesity and not feeling full were probably all related.
We eat no HFCS, and 80% of our diet is whole grains, whole food - wholesome food...so I am starting to feel fuller than I use to eating processed food (boxed noodles and the like) ...My husband is thin and he eats the same amount as I do - he is more active than I. I have started a 45 minutes of exercise (zumba, yoga, bellydance etc) every day or every other day recently. I definitely feel better!

I actually agree with the radio show. I am NOT saying to take food stamps away from the poor because it does help people make quality choices if they want to..BUT - if every one had to only eat what they actually could grow and afford - we would see more oatmeal, and beans and 'depression' era servings of meat and dairy than we do now.
If you had $4 for food are you going to spend it on a box of oatmeal and some butter or a box of fruit by the foot....
I think that sounds like the point the show was making and I agree with that.


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Do you mean that people in apartments are supposed to grow their own food?


In general, some people make poor food and/or money choices, and believe their choices are good. Sometimes they are open to education, sometimes not. If really poor food was simply not available for them to choose, it would help. People are not going to make their own transfats, or high fuctose corn syrup. Why are those things allowed? And genetic modification? We are experimenting with children on a wide scale. We should be protesting, and trying to change things for the better, not sitting on the sidelines passing judgment.
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#81 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 04:33 AM
 
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I do find it perplexing that some think you can keep the information (and think it's good too) from a teenage child (6th grade age) that they are "at risk" and not knowing is beneficial. Short of a bubble I don't see it happening or working IRL.

 

I don't get how you tell the Dr not to speak to the child about it - that would really cause "red flag" IMO and make the Dr really wonder about the parent and the child's lifestyle.

 

I will note that dalia's child is only 4. I can see how she might be iffy about the doc talking to the child only. I do still think that it's good to involve the child, even at a young age. Hopefully, yhe parent has chosen a ped who they are comfortable with handling the situation well...

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I will note that dalia's child is only 4. I can see how she might be iffy about the doc talking to the child only. I do still think that it's good to involve the child, even at a young age. Hopefully, yhe parent has chosen a ped who they are comfortable with handling the situation well...

if you noticed I had quoted another poster - regardless I read what she posted and I still don't get it- how you tell the Dr not to say anything??

 

But if the only problem the doc sees is that the child is overweight, then in my opinion any communication regarding that needs to go from the doc to the parent and then to the child if the parent sees it as an actual problem. A child not fitting into a category concerning their BMI may not be a real problem.


 

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#83 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 06:07 AM
 
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In general, some people make poor food and/or money choices, and believe their choices are good. Sometimes they are open to education, sometimes not. If really poor food was simply not available for them to choose, it would help. People are not going to make their own transfats, or high fuctose corn syrup. Why are those things allowed? And genetic modification? We are experimenting with children on a wide scale. We should be protesting, and trying to change things for the better, not sitting on the sidelines passing judgment.

 

That was the point of the radio show I listened too.  It made one point about how if the government would try to restrict highly processed foods under assistance programs, the backlash from Big Business would be so great, it will likely never happen.  Meanwhile, generations of kids are being raised on Juicy Juicy and Coco Puffs instead of water and oatmeal (or whatever).  It never said take food stamps away, just make it a better program that helps instead of hurts a good portion of those it is suppose to benefit.

 

The surplus outlets (the place to go for bulk beans, grains, flour, rice as well as produce) and the larger farmers markets in my area do accept Access/food stamps.


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#84 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 06:39 AM
 
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if you noticed I had quoted another poster - regardless I read what she posted and I still don't get it- how you tell the Dr not to say anything??


I wasn't offering ideas on "how," I was simply answering "why" a parent might want that. I suppose people who take their child for exams regularly can build up that rapport that someone mentioned.

I expected we might get a BMI lecture and get quizzed about what ds had for breakfast. I talked about that with ds in advance and wasn't concerned about it, myself. I was more concerned with ds knowing he is allowed to say no to the doctor. Now that he is older, I want him to be prepared if he does end up in a private situation with the doctor. I gave ds some phrases he could use if the doctor wanted to give him a vaccine while I wasn't around (thinking of that one they like to give tweens, the HPV.) And ds got to practice saying no to the doctor when he wanted to check his genitals, lol. I asked the doctor what he would be looking for. He answered that he'd be checking for signs of puberty and to be sure the testicles were descended. Knowing that they were, and ds being uncomfortable was good reason to politely decline. And ds got some experience navigating that sort of situation.

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#85 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 08:16 AM
 
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if you noticed I had quoted another poster - regardless I read what she posted and I still don't get it- how you tell the Dr not to say anything??

But if the only problem the doc sees is that the child is overweight, then in my opinion any communication regarding that needs to go from the doc to the parent and then to the child if the parent sees it as an actual problem. A child not fitting into a category concerning their BMI may not be a real problem.

I would just stop them if they were going in that direction and say thank you but we're not concerned with that. If I thought there truly might be an issue then I would call the office and speak to the doc later.

And yes, my son is only three so right now it makes more sense than ever. But even at twelve I would be very cautious about what is said to him regarding his weight. We can talk about nutrition and all that, and we do (we have a naturopath), but if the doc starts to judge the size of my son's body and make assumptions that he is eating junk food then the convo would stop right there.

Sorry for taking this thread so OT.

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#86 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 10:31 AM
 
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Today's moms aren't any more neglectful than yesterday's moms.  What's different is the overwhelming, oppressive, all pervasive manufactured food culture.  It is inescapable, and plenty of moms aren't even aware that there's an alternative. 

 

 

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I wish schools would teach the practical aspects of cooking and nutrition to every child. In an ideal world, this would be taught at home, but that doesn't seem to be working. But I think it would go far to combat the pervasive effects of advertising.

 

I so, so agree.  Take those old home economics class rooms and use them to teach kids about...advertising techniques, the history of processed foods, how our hunger works and why we crave certain foods, how diabetes works, how their taste buds are being manipulated by super sweet, super salty, super smooth foods.  Are hamburger buns supposed to be 'sweet'? Not particularly, right?  Have kids taste a home made bun with little to no sugar, along side a commercially manufactured one. The store-bought or fastfood bun is sweeter, and kids grow up thinking that's what's normal.  And so a regular bun without a lot of sugar doesn't taste right. 

 

Teach them the history of farm subsidies for corn and show them how the unbelievably massive glut of corn for the past 60 years has effected what's available to eat. Open their eyes. 

 

 

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People are not going to make their own transfats, or high fuctose corn syrup. Why are those things allowed?

 

I'm with you.    Some pro-real-food author, maybe Michael Pollan, gives an example of where the food industry has tried to self regulate with no success.  I hope I get this right, I heard the tail end of the conversation.  Several years ago Campbell's Soup reduced the amount of salt in one of its soups.  Sales dropped immediately. People hated it.  So they went back to the original recipe and packaged the reduced sodium version separately.    Pollan has worked with/interviewed several people within the commercial food industry who point out they don't want to make their customers sick. They're in the business of feeding people, which is can be a wonderful thing. 

 

Now I'm not sure where I was going with this, and it's not entirely related to what you said anyway.    headscratch.gif lol.gif

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#87 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 10:33 AM
 
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Do you mean that people in apartments are supposed to grow their own food?


In general, some people make poor food and/or money choices, and believe their choices are good. Sometimes they are open to education, sometimes not. If really poor food was simply not available for them to choose, it would help. People are not going to make their own transfats, or high fuctose corn syrup. Why are those things allowed? And genetic modification? We are experimenting with children on a wide scale. We should be protesting, and trying to change things for the better, not sitting on the sidelines passing judgment.


No idea where the "people in apartments growing their own food came from":.But yes, I have lived in apartments and unsuccessfully done container gardening - so that IS an option for a lot of people. Hopefully with more success. lol.gif

 

I am also NOT passing judgment except for when people have good money and still buy name brand junk- education is OUT there as you say. Even at my worst educated I still knew "Fruit by the foot" was not a replacement for an apple.

 

I also agree about better food selection 100% and corporate sponsored advertised franken foods. None of the new experiments have helped us, and as the years go on and Monsanto grows stronger it will probably be much worse.

I get where you are coming from, and I agree...

however..It still does not change my opinion that---- your food lifestyle will match your food  budget or there is trouble.

If you had $50 a month for food to feed your family you are going to choose the cheapest option to do it. Many times that is beans, rice, oatmeal etc. I believe the 30 days around the world food photo essay really opened many people eyes about this...

 

By stating the above I am NOT ADVOCATING TAKING AWAY FOOD STAMPS. I am unsure why people are so quick to assume this as it is a completely unrelated conclusion being drawn from the above observation.

 

 

 

An unrelated example: Not many people wildcraft ( whom have the ability) to provide nutrition for the family, but if there were no more greens being sold in stores for whatever reason - people would quickly learn how to and that wisdom would be really respected. This is a fact of life- and it doesn't mean I am advocating for a reduction in food stamps or the closing down of stores. That conclusion being drawn is unrelated to the statement.

 

 

The most obese people in my family do not receive food stamps. We receive food stamps when we need to. There is no judgment on my part about the food stamp system in America.

 

I believe I have stated my point on that clearly here and any other differences are ...well...moot at this point.


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#88 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 10:39 AM
 
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That was the point of the radio show I listened too.  It made one point about how if the government would try to restrict highly processed foods under assistance programs, the backlash from Big Business would be so great, it will likely never happen.  Meanwhile, generations of kids are being raised on Juicy Juicy and Coco Puffs instead of water and oatmeal (or whatever).  It never said take food stamps away, just make it a better program that helps instead of hurts a good portion of those it is suppose to benefit.

 

The surplus outlets (the place to go for bulk beans, grains, flour, rice as well as produce) and the larger farmers markets in my area do accept Access/food stamps.


Thanks for clarifying this.

Sounds like they were advocating for a return to the old commodities style system. Cheese, powd. milk, butter, dried fruit, peanut butter, beans, rice, oatmeal - staples. I remember that, and it probably WAS healthier than most every ones diets today.

 

I don't know if that would be possible in this economic system but also - I do like choice. If someone wants to buy their kid a birthday cake on food stamps - I think that should totally be their choice. How many times have we had govt/other take over food choice through programs and it winds up being non-healthy? EX: WIC and all the gallons of milk but no substitute for goat milk or whatnot.

 

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#89 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 10:43 AM
 
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Meemee's comment about Wonder Bread reminded me of what another foodie author said (maybe it was Michael Pollan again) about home cooking.  He theorized that in order to create a problem we didn't know we had, that the food manufacturers could then provide the solution for, they had to convince us that cooking real foods was drudge work and that modern women were supposed to be freeing themselves of the burden of cooking.

 

And that strongly reminds me of my mom's whole generation that were taught that breastfeeding is for uneducated, unliberated, lower class domestic women. You weren't liberated unless you bottle fed your babies.

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#90 of 196 Old 05-29-2013, 11:08 AM
 
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Meemee's comment about Wonder Bread reminded me of what another foodie author said (maybe it was Michael Pollan again) about home cooking.  He theorized that in order to create a problem we didn't know we had, that the food manufacturers could then provide the solution for, they had to convince us that cooking real foods was drudge work and that modern women were supposed to be freeing themselves of the burden of cooking.

 

And that strongly reminds me of my mom's whole generation that were taught that breastfeeding is for uneducated, unliberated, lower class domestic women. You weren't liberated unless you bottle fed your babies.


Always that is the case to sell people on something they didn't know they needed. Create a problem and then all of a sudden offer a solution. If you tell someone X long enough - soon they will believe X!

I can't think of an industry that is NOT based off of that model - cosmetics, plastic surgery, clothing, cars...

Too true.


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