Is CIO ever the lesser of 2 evils?? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 214 Old 05-06-2004, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thirtycats
I believe (and I think most AP parents believe) that you DO need to be self-sacrificing when you have an infant.
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#182 of 214 Old 05-06-2004, 11:12 PM
 
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I think one of the ideas that sets attachment parenting apart from Babywise type parenting is that for the first few years of a child's life (and especially the first year)...their needs come before the adults. I believe (and I think most AP parents believe) that you DO need to be self-sacrificing when you have an infant. You give up a lot of your sleep. You interrupt sex to run to your crying baby. You don't go on vacations. You give up your privacy in the bathroom. Baby says Jump and you ask "How high?"
you need to be self-sacrificing with ANY child -- to a degree. the statement, "my needs are secondary" is a complete fallacy. it was this way of thinking that led me to neglect myself after i had my son to the point that i finally realized i couldn't take care of him because i wasn't taking care of myself. i was anemic, my hair was falling out, my skin was transleucent, and i was about 20 lbs underweight.

sure, you give up sleep, and sex... to a point. but: Baby says Jump and you ask "How high?" ?? no way. and no, i don't give up my privacy in the bathroom; that's why it's called "privacy."

to me, attachment parenting is about raising attached children, not about neglecting myself and my own needs and putting my children first in everything. my children aren't the center of the universe. am i saying i don't love them or that i'm not willing to meet their needs? of course not. i'm just saying the idea that AP parents should be willing to drop everything for their kids (and give up their privacy and their alone time and bend over backward to meet their kids needs) is a little skewed, a little unhealthy.

we cannot be good parents without first meeting our own needs.

and before anyone jumps on me ~ NO i don't think any of this means that it's ok for a parent to leave their child alone to cry for hours while the parent plugs their ears and gets some rest. i just think we need to look at the big picture of what's being said here...

eta ~ i guess what i'm saying is that there needs to be a balance.
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#183 of 214 Old 05-06-2004, 11:42 PM
 
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Obviously putting my kids first, or myself second, doesn't mean none of my needs get met. But, I don't think in any situation involving two people that each individuals needs are met exactly 50-50. As long as sometimes one person gets what they need, and sometimes the other one does, things work out. That's true with kids, but I think as infants their needs get met more often. I don't see how it can be any other way.

When one half of the dyad is a helpless, uncomprehending infant who can make him (or her) self know only by crying, we have to respond to that. If an infant is crying because it wants to be left alone to fuss itself to sleep, then that's how we meet it's needs. But for awhile, at least the first six months if not longer (I'd say two years) the needs of the children have to be primary.

Obviously if a parent feels as though none of their needs are met, and they aren't functioning daily as parents, partners, friends, etc.,. something is drastically wrong. But this isn't happening because we're nursing kids to sleep, or responding to their cries.

Take care,

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#184 of 214 Old 05-07-2004, 12:04 AM
 
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eta ~ i guess what i'm saying is that there needs to be a balance.[/QUOTE]


Well, if your anemic, your hair is falling out, and your twenty pounds underweight...that's not balance.

I think of self-sacrificing as sacrificing some of your reading time, the amount of movies you go see, overnight vacations, long shopping excursions, eight-nine hour sleep averages, long romantic dates with your husband, frequent bubble baths, etc. I don't think you need to totally neglect your health.

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#185 of 214 Old 05-07-2004, 12:26 AM
 
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I think of self-sacrificing as sacrificing some of your reading time, the amount of movies you go see, overnight vacations, long shopping excursions, eight-nine hour sleep averages, long romantic dates with your husband, frequent bubble baths, etc. I don't think you need to totally neglect your health.
ITA

obviously none of these are needs.

nobody needs to neglect their baby to read a book/newspaper/magazine; nobody ever needs to go out and see movies; overnight vacations IMO can be extremely revitalizing to parents... but can wait until the baby is old enough to deal with being alone OR can be left with a caregiver they are just as comfortable with as their primary caregiver. (when my son was just barely a month old, i left for two days to attend my brother's wedding while my son stayed with his daddy. i don't personally feel that there was any harm done by this. his father fed him, coslept with him, changed him, and kept him secure and happy...)

i don't see why a baby can't accompany a parent on a "long shopping excursion." my son always has, with me.

"long romantic dates with your husband" are a joke (at least, for us). i don't think i've *ever* been on a "long, romantic date" with my SO. ah well. in any case, it's not a need; there are many ways couples can connect and be intimate with one another without ever leaving the home.

and "frequent bubble baths" ~

ok i think i'm done.

but you see what i mean about balance?

i also think there are some needs that may have to be sacrificed while the needs of the infant are met, and then made up for later. sleep is obviously a need, and we do need adequate rest to stay healthy, but this has to be sacrificed, particularly with a newborn, so that the baby can be healthy. my son had colic for the first few months of his life, mostly during his first month, which meant he was awake and screaming almost all night long. i guess i could have just laid him down, gone in another room and gotten some rest... but i didn't. i stayed with him, held him, rubbed his back, rocked him, and helped him get through it. i was exhausted and overworked but i sacrificed my own need for sleep for that time so that he would be taken care of. but like i said, there has to be a balance.
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#186 of 214 Old 05-07-2004, 02:58 PM
 
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Going back to a discussion 2 pages back, but I started thinking about this last night...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow
Parenting is all about picking and choosing what works for your family and your ideals. Attachment parenting is a defined type of parenting. Can you pick and choose what AP things to follow and which not to follow and still call yourself AP? Well that is a matter of perspective. Can you pick and choose which tenants of buddhism to follow and still call yourself buddhist? Perspective.
I don't know whether you can pick & choose which things to follow and still call yourself AP. But let's address the analogy w/ religions: I can decide to follow the 10 Commandments, b/c I feel they provide a moral compass. But that doesn't make me a Christian. Right? I can study Buddhism and incorporate some of the tenets of the faith into my life, and that doesn't make me a Buddhist. But it does make me a more moral, thoughtful, hopefully better person. So it's the same w/ AP; you can adapt it to your family's needs, and maybe you don't quite make the full set of ideals, but at least you're trying to be a better, more connected, etc. parent.

I'm not really a "joiner" or someone who likes labels very much. So I guess my point is that...
Oh, I've lost my point. Damn.
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#187 of 214 Old 05-07-2004, 03:34 PM
 
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I think we need to acknowledge that parents, like infants and toddlers, have different needs and different levels of need. Just like some infants are "high needs" some parents have a higher need for say, sleep, than others. Or maybe regular meals is a less inflamatory example. My SIL has severe blood sugar issues. If she doesn't eat the right things at the right times, she stops functioning. She can't possibly be a good mother without regular meals (she would literally pass out in her tracks if she didn't eat right). I suspect that, at times, her need for a meal MUST take presidence over her toddlers need for something. Good planning and awareness probably minimizes this, but we all have "emergency needs" sometimes. Just as we have to be aware of our babies needs, and know that my babies needs may be different from yours, parents need to be aware of their own needs. And, more importantly for this discussion, be aware that my needs may be different from yours. So, while you (in general, no one in particular) might be OK sacrificing sleep or meals, the same level of sacrifice could send me so far over the edge that I would kill something or someone as a result of lack of sleep.

The one thing that this whole board has taught me is that awareness of the needs of self, baby, toddler and partner is a major key to making it all work.
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#188 of 214 Old 05-07-2004, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom
I think we need to acknowledge that parents, like infants and toddlers, have different needs and different levels of need.

Excellent point

I have to admit that I have almost always woken up every 2-3 hours...to go to the bathroom, write in my dream journal, etc. So, waking up to nurse that often has never been a big deal to me. I don't need 8 straight hours of sleep. I'm fine with broken sleep. My good friend, however, has had to sacrifice much more to be an AP mom. She was used to having those straight 7-10 hours of sleep and has the spent the last two years exhausted!]

Also, I know some moms can sleep while breastfeeding, so nursing all night is not a big deal for them. I sometimes can and sometimes can't.

I'm still very much about crying-it-out (with babies). But I'll admit that in extreme cases (where parents are almost dead from exhaustion) I'm not sure of the alternative. I guess I'd just want these parents to know a) it is not good for their babies b) that it is only done as a last resort because the parents have to have more sleep...and not because they're worried about fitting into the mainstream and/or not because they're worried their child is behind their peers in sleeping through the night.
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#189 of 214 Old 05-07-2004, 04:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nate


I don't know whether you can pick & choose which things to follow and still call yourself AP. But let's address the analogy w/ religions: .
This just reminded me. A while back...just for fun...I made my own little "What kind of parent are you?" type of quiz. If anyone is interested in taking it or just seeing it...it's at http://members.aol.com/elsa22/parentingtest.html

Please don't take it too seriously.

Dina
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#190 of 214 Old 05-09-2004, 12:57 PM
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I've been writing this reply in my head for days now, not quite sure how to "get it right", so please forgive me if I remble or seem to be O/T. I promise, all I write was brought on by this thread. I have thought of little else during my "free time" in the last week.

Originally, I replied some garbled sentances to the OP, as when this thread began I was extremely sleep deprived from my nearly 6 mo very high-need DD's inability to go more than 20-60 minutes without some sort of waking. The legths we would go to every night to help her find sleep were getting more extreme and more exhausting everytime. It is so frustrating to spend 1.5 hours trying to help her nap, only to have that nap last less than 30 minutes.

Anyway, as the thread evolved, I found myself sympathizing with each of the poster's stories, seeing my own situation in each of them. At this point DH and I, although committed no to CIO, began to consider it. (All of the nightwaking falls on me b/c my DH has MS and needs to get solid sleep.) My health was in th toilet as I was vomitting and having migraines from not sleeping for the past 6 months. We knew that something had to give in our situation...

The very first time I read heartmamas posts I saw them as being judgemental and harsh. I thought, surely, she could not know how sick I was and could not believe that a sick mama was better than letting my baby cry... etc etc etc...

The next night my DD began her nightly "breakdown". After her bath, we typically nurse and a few minutes into it she loses control and gets near hysterical crying. Usually, my DH and I would take turn swinging her car seat, wearinging her in the sling or bjorn while the vacuum runs until she calms and then we take a drive to go to sleep.

However, that night I remember heartmamas posts and I quickly thought about how we handle her crying... We treat as something wrong, that needs to be stopped. Hardly respectful in light of what I had read. So I decided to stay in the chair, hold her and let DD "tell me" how she was feeling. (Yes, I made sure all her physical needs were met and that she was not in pain before deciding this )

It went exactly as heartmama described. She sobbed for a long time withe her eyes closed. Then periodically she would open them to see me. Eventually, the sobs slowed down to little sighs and she was just staring at me. Not with sadness or fear, but almost relief. Then she feel asleep in my arms.

This wasn't the easiest thing to do, as I very much wanted to croon to her or rock her or get up and do the colic dance... but as it went on, I could almost feel the tension in her body melt away. For the first time I felt like I was able to make her "hurt" go away by taking it into my body and then dispensing it in my breath. I felt closer to her than ever before because I could understand what she was going thru as a baby because I was listening to her for the first time...

She slept much better since that night than she has in a long time. And the next night she nursed herself to sleep in my arms without a tear, for the first time since she was a newborn. Naptime is much less painless and she is able to find sleep much easier. She even seems a bit less clingy and is enjoying floor play better in the past few days. I'll never know if that night had anything to do with it, but I like to think that it did. I think that maybe she has been trying to get us to listen for a long time and is feeling relief now that we finally did.

Anyway, I wanted to share my story and how reading this thread helped us to make a better choice for our situation. heartmama, I wanted to thank you for sharing what you did, because it helped us make a decision that has helped our baby tremendously. And thank you to all the other mamas who shared their stories, giving me hope that things will improve and letting me know that I am not alone.
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#191 of 214 Old 05-09-2004, 01:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Messy Nessie
The next night my DD began her nightly "breakdown". After her bath, we typically nurse and a few minutes into it she loses control and gets near hysterical crying. Usually, my DH and I would take turn swinging her car seat, wearinging her in the sling or bjorn while the vacuum runs until she calms and then we take a drive to go to sleep.

However, that night I remember heartmamas posts and I quickly thought about how we handle her crying... We treat as something wrong, that needs to be stopped. Hardly respectful in light of what I had read. So I decided to stay in the chair, hold her and let DD "tell me" how she was feeling. (Yes, I made sure all her physical needs were met and that she was not in pain before deciding this )

It went exactly as heartmama described. She sobbed for a long time withe her eyes closed. Then periodically she would open them to see me. Eventually, the sobs slowed down to little sighs and she was just staring at me. Not with sadness or fear, but almost relief. Then she feel asleep in my arms.

This wasn't the easiest thing to do, as I very much wanted to croon to her or rock her or get up and do the colic dance... but as it went on, I could almost feel the tension in her body melt away. For the first time I felt like I was able to make her "hurt" go away by taking it into my body and then dispensing it in my breath. I felt closer to her than ever before because I could understand what she was going thru as a baby because I was listening to her for the first time...

I think this is very beautiful...the way you were there for your daughter. I don't think this is CIO at all. You held her in your arms and loved her. How can there be anything wrong with that? I think there's such a big difference between that and leaving your child alone in a room. Or periodically going in to pat your infant when they're begging you to pick them up (which I did and STILL feel guilty about 2 years later)

A teacher I once worked with complained about how parents always rush to cheer their children up when they're crying. It's fine that we want our children to be happy, but sometimes we have to just be there for them and let them feel what they're feeling. My husband and I are struggling not to fall into the trap of offering our DS food treats when he's upset about something. (ie. yes, I know you're sad about vacation being over, but we can go get ice-cream!) I had to remember the lesson yesterday. My son woke up hysterically crying for his daddy (who went out of town). I tried to distract him. "Do you want to watch a video?" "Do you want to play with mommy?" "Do you want me to read you a book?" Nothing worked so I stopped and said "Look, I'm going to carry you around the house and you can cry as much as you want." We did that and then after awhile...when I felt he was ready for a change...I did something silly and he slowly eazed into a happier mood.
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#192 of 214 Old 05-09-2004, 04:16 PM
 
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After reading the recent posts, I just have to add (from my own experience) that DS cried himself to sleep IN OUR ARMS almost every night for 5-6 mos. straight. He was a colicky baby and every night at the same time would have his "crying time". DH and I needed to switch off and on with this b/c it became physically and emotionally draining, but we always held him when he cried. I mention this b/c there have been threads before on MDC about whether or not it is CIO when your child cries to sleep in your arms. IMHO, this seems so silly. With colicky babies (and lots of others who cry to let off steam or what not) they CRY. And there's not much you can do about it. You can choose to try to help them through it, or not. We chose to always help our DS through it. It is mentally, physically, and spiritually EXHAUSTING. I know, we've been there.
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#193 of 214 Old 05-09-2004, 05:54 PM
 
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Certainly we all do try to get our babies to stop crying (how well I remember those early newborn days) and alot of the time nothing we do works, which leaves us feeling frustrated and maybe even angry for some people. If there is absolutely nothing you can do, then holding them while they cry is at least the best option you have. I'm glad things worked out for you, Nessie, and especially that this thread helped contribute to that.

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#194 of 214 Old 05-09-2004, 06:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messy Nessie
However, that night I remember heartmamas posts and I quickly thought about how we handle her crying... We treat as something wrong, that needs to be stopped. Hardly respectful in light of what I had read. So I decided to stay in the chair, hold her and let DD "tell me" how she was feeling.
Ahhh, beautiful. Lucky child to have parents like you. This thing that you describe is the most ideal parenting. Sweet.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#195 of 214 Old 05-09-2004, 11:02 PM
 
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I really think it depends on the baby. I have a 22 month old ds and a 31/2 month dd. They couldn't be more different. My ds not only wouldn't nurse for all that I tried (days and days upset, angry, hurt, and crying) but he didn't want to sleep with us at all. I pumped for a while (till I was on a muscle relaxer that I didn't want ds to get) and let him sleep on his own, after he got too big for his bassinet (didn't take too long, very long and mobile child) he moved to a crib. We had to let him CIO there, if he was in our arms it went on for hours, if he was in his crib 8 minutes tops. DD is much different, not only is she a bf piglet, she wants to sleep either with us or right next to us in a bassinet. CIO does not work for her, we won't go past a 5 minute mark (she's too little to really CIO) and she gets very upset, so we'll wait till she's bigger, more mobile, and/or seems to need her own space. But I will say this, the second (and I'm sure third, fourth, etc.) is much harder than the first, you can't nap when they nap, and sleep is needed to deal with an energetic (very energetic) 22 month old little guy bent on figuring out everything around him. So I can definitely see where you would want this. I think babies have personalities when they are born, at least to a certain extent, and you need to adapt to that personality, rather than forcing anger, hurt, and resentment to come between you and loving your baby.
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#196 of 214 Old 05-10-2004, 12:45 AM
 
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i have two very different children with two very different levels of sleep needs. ds was a high needs baby. very high needs. he was the nurse, carry, nurse some more, try to sneak out of the room, oops he woke up, carry for a couple more hours, finally sleep on your chest type baby. i tried CIO once at about 8 months out of desperation and it was a disaster. those of you who have tried this with a HN, determined baby know exactly what i mean - think panicked screaming and vomiting. i don't know how long it lasted, but it couldn't have been that long. it seemed like a year . i still regret it and am pained to think about it. he is now three and is still not a great sleeper - but we were finally able to night wean a few months back.

dd, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. she prefers to go to sleep by herself. i found this out by accident when she was only a few days old and i was exhausted trying to put her to sleep after a nuight feeding. i laid her in her carseat on the bed next to me thinking i'd get a few seconds of peace before she fussed to be picked up again. lo and behold, she drifted off without a peep and we both slept for several hours. a few days later, i laid her down in the bassinet to change my shirt, and by the time i was done, she was out. she acutally used the crib for 6 months or so before deciding she wanted to take her place in the family bed. the only time she wants me there to fall asleep is when she's teething or otherwise sick. at 10.5 months old, she nurses, rolls over, and starts sucking her fist - and she generally wont' go to sleep until i leave. when i leave, she sometimes lets out a cry - but if she hasn't stopped by the time i get out of the bedroom, i go back to her. anyhow, my point is that different things work for different kids. i absoloutely am not in favor of Ferberesque CIO plans, but not every baby likes to be bounced and cuddled and nursed to sleep. if a baby fusses for 5 minutes alone at bedtime and gets a good night's sleep, i think its better than screaming in some one's arms for two hours because they just want to be put down and left alone.
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#197 of 214 Old 05-10-2004, 10:38 AM
 
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Different babies may have different needs (in fact I'm sure they do). But I think there's a difference between trying to find those needs, and putting baby down for a minute or two to see if that is one of them, and just giving up b/c the needs aren't obvious or aren't convenient and so letting them CIO is deemed the only answer.

Most of what I see here are concientious parents who are trying first and foremost to meet their babies needs. However, when someone suggests a newborn or young baby needs to CIO (and again, I'm talking prolonged crying, not short term fussing) then I just don't believe it. I think it's the parent who has the need, and while that need for support, help, additional resources, etc may be very real...why is it the helpless one who ends up having their needs sacrificed first? Oh yeah, cuz they are helpless.

Sometimes I think the nuclear family is a big part of this problem: too many mothers left alone to cope by themselves, not enough help (emotional or physical) and in the end, it's the baby whose needs get sacrificed.

sorry, i think i'm rambling...

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#198 of 214 Old 05-10-2004, 11:28 AM
 
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Nessie, that's a beautiful story. Thank you so much for sharing it w/ us.

Piglet--did you just find out you're having a boy, or did I fully read your sig for the first time today? Anyway, congratulations!
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#199 of 214 Old 05-10-2004, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
Sometimes I think the nuclear family is a big part of this problem: too many mothers left alone to cope by themselves, not enough help (emotional or physical) and in the end, it's the baby whose needs get sacrificed.
oh i agree with this 100%!!!! i think this is also why so many women do not even try to breastfeed or give up so easily- there is no "in-house" support system like there was when several generations of family lived together!
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#200 of 214 Old 05-10-2004, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
Sometimes I think the nuclear family is a big part of this problem: too many mothers left alone to cope by themselves, not enough help (emotional or physical) and in the end, it's the baby whose needs get sacrificed.
So true--I have a colleague who came from a hispanic background, and the tradition apparently is that new mothers aren't even supposed to leave the house for 40 days after birth, and until that time all the aunties & grandmas will come over & take care of things. Which seems extreme--but think of how wonderful it is to have the societal support to just stay home & take care of yourself & your baby! No grocery shopping, running errands, just baby...

OTOH, they all told her that if she went out b/f that time was over she'd never lose her baby weight. :
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#201 of 214 Old 05-10-2004, 12:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate
Piglet--did you just find out you're having a boy, or did I fully read your sig for the first time today? Anyway, congratulations!
T

Thanks. We found out on Friday during an U/S. We're tentatively excited...I had an amnio after the U/S and we are anxiously awaiting the results (due tomorrow).

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#202 of 214 Old 05-13-2004, 11:18 PM
 
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MessyNessie wrote

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heartmama, I wanted to thank you for sharing what you did, because it helped us make a decision that has helped our baby tremendously.
I was so happy to read your post. How beautiful for all of you.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#203 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have to admit that I'm surprised at how much attention this thread has gotten. I changed ISPs and have been off-line for the past 2 weeks. I'm sorry that I don't have time to read through the entire thread right now, but I thought I should give an update on our situation. I'm probably going to be stripped of my MDC membership for what you're about to read......

We did let Zoe CIO. Please at least read what led us to this decision before you decide I should be nominated for the crappiest mother of the year award.

Things had been getting progressively worse -- it was a RARE occasion when I could get Zoe to sleep anywhere other than in my arms. When I did, it was in the swing for 30 minutes at a time, or in the car after a 30 minute drive. When I had to be anywhere I made sure I left early enough to drive around and get her some sleep so she wouldn't be miserable. It was helpful for Zoe, but not so fun for Ean (my 2-year old). Her fussiness got worse, and people who spent any amount of time with her were starting to comment and get concerned that there might be something wrong with her. The *only* time she was happy was right after waking up from a nap -- even then her happiness was usually short-lived. Had she been able to sleep in the sling, I would have been more than happy to wear her around whenever she needed to nap, but she's a light sleeper and seems to require quiet in order to stay alseep. I could have chosen to hold her in a quiet room every time she needed to sleep, but I couldn't stand what that was doing to my son. He needs me too and his needs and Zoe's needs were becoming increasingly at odds.

The final straw was Saturday night when I was rocking Zoe --- Ean came in to say goodnight and I shooed him away to keep him from waking her up. "Ean, please don't wake your sister" had become my mantra --- but the look on his face at that moment was more than I could stand. He was crushed and I knew he needed me, and I went to him. Rich (DH) took Zoe, but she screamed in his arms for 45 minutes. I was at the end of my rope and I knew that *something* had to change. Please believe me when I tell you we tried everything short of CIO (swaddling, white noise, NCSS, binkys, etc.) and things only got worse. I felt like I was making Sophie's Choice -- which one of my kids was I going to ignore. It was the most terrible feeling, and the only thing I could to was follow my heart. I decided that my son was suffering so much from my constant attention to Zoe that it was worth the risk of CIO. So, we finally put Zoe down and left the room -- I went back in every 5 - 7 minutes, touched her, kissed her, told her I loved her. She fell asleep after 35 minutes, crying on and off. When she awoke later I nursed her and put her back in her crib. She woke up again shortly after that and came to bed with us. We tried again the next night, same thing, except after she woke I wound up sitting in the glider all night, holding her while she slept. Same thing last night, except I tried putting her down after she woke to nurse -- she woke 3 times after falling asleep initially and went back to sleep with only a few little noises (not even cries). Just to be clear -- I nursed her each time she woke up and cried. I didn't stop her from falling asleep nursing, but I didn't go to any extreme measures to make sure she was out cold before I put her down.

I don't know what to say other than I KNOW I didn't make the ideal choice. I KNOW it's so much better not to let a baby CIO. But I also know that my family was a mess. Ean missed his momma so much and I just had to put his needs first for the first time in a very long time. Zoe was miserable and so obviously sleep-deprived. And, I'm ashamed to admit this, but Rich and I were feeling less and less attached to her because our lives revolved around getting her to sleep, keeping her asleep, or soothing her through a sleep-deprived bad mood.

I don't know how much of a difference it really makes, but we didn't just shut the door and turn the music up -- we kept going in and letting her know we loved her. We listened carefully and her cries were not ones of saddness or fear -- they were her tired/frustrated cries (and we do know her well enough to know the difference). I did NOT resort to CIO becuase I thought I should be getting a good night's sleep, and I have no intention of nightweaning anytime in the near future. This was not about me or some distorted view of the way a 6.5 month old should be sleeping -- this decision was made becuase my entire family was suffering and we had already tried everything else we (and others) could think of. I just couldn't continue to attend to Zoe at the expense of Ean -- that felt MORE wrong than CIO.

I feel like a failure and I'm sad, but I appear to be the only one. Zoe has gotten more sleep these past few nights and the improvement in her mood is dramatic and obvious. Ean will be getting more time with me, which I know means a ton to him. Maybe you're reading this and thinking that I'm offering these rationalizations as excuses for making a poor choice -- and maybe I am a little. I suppose if I had no qualms about CIO I would be here at MDC.
Six months ago I would have told you that I would NEVER let Zoe CIO and gone on about how wrong CIO is. But I never imagined that I might have to make that decision at the expense of my other beloved child.

I'm not proud of our (clearly non-AP) decision and I recognize that it's far from the ideal we are striving for -- but I do feel like we made the best decision possible given the circumstances we were presented with. I just thought I should update you all. Hopefully I haven't lost *everyone's* respect.
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#204 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 03:40 PM
 
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nope, you havent lost my respect tricia...i totally understand what you are saying..my family has also become a mess revolving around dd's sleep issues.

i have never let my dd cio but honestly some days i feel if i dont then i will literally go insane she is sooo difficult and needs LOTS of help getting to sleep and staying asleep/ one day i 'tried', i thought if i dont get away from her right this minute i am going to flip out..i watched the clock, not even 2 minutes and she was screaming so hard she started to gag and i thought for sure she will throw up (i was in the next room):
her reaction escalates soooo quickly that i know i cant leave her that and i really dont WANT to, but there are days i feel my sanity is hanging by a thread

no advice..just s to all of you goin thru this, it cant be good for baby or parents, sleep deprivation is ugly and will make u say and do things u never thought u would in your pre-parenting days...I still need ideas cuz i'm all out of them, so if anyone can help then please do..

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#205 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the hugs, Neveryoumindthere -- I can use them! I'm sorry to hear you're haivng such a tough time as well, I hope it gets better for you.

Just to clarify though -- it wasn't sleep deprivation that prompted this decision, it was Ean's need for more attention. I dealt with sleep-deprivation when Ean was an infant and while it's not fun, it wouldn't push me to try CIO. But the look on Ean's face.....it was awful.
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#206 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 04:20 PM
 
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Big hugs, Tricia. I'm glad to hear that your family is feeling better.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#207 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 04:33 PM
 
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nak
to clarify i mentioned sleepdeprivation cuz dh and i are both so tired and tired of spending day nd night trying to soothe her only to have her up an hour later crying/fussing and tired of not having alone time..seems we are all detached from each other cuz of the bad mood we are in

but yes i hear you tricia, your son needs attention too, i'm sure we just wish there were a better option

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#208 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 05:02 PM
 
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MM - I am glad things are on the up swing. The more she sleeps the easier it will get because she will begin to recover and feel better and be able to sleep more. i know it sounds like backward logic but trust me on this. Please, if you get a chance go back and read some of this thread. so many of us understand where you have been and where you are and do no t judge you in the slightest. we have nothing but compassion for you. I totally understand what it feels like to always be telling your olderchild "just a minute, as soon as she is alseep . . . . " and that minute never coming until they feel totally neglected and alone.

I hope things continue to imporve.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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#209 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 05:57 PM
 
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I don't know what to say to you, except that when you told the part about the look on your Toddler's face...well, my heart just ached for both you and him. I imagine my toddler feeling that way, and it would honestly break my heart too. I have not walked in your shoes, so it would be wrong of me to say "I would never do that".

To be honest, if your baby was just crying all the time anyways and holding/comforting her didn't make the slightest difference, then probably putting her down and comforting her was really no different. And it's not like her cries were escalating to the point of hysteria/vomiting...It's hard for me to say this when I am such an anti-CIO person but...gosh, I'm just so glad that it's working out for you. I admire you SO much for posting so openly and honestly. I can feel the pain in your words. I have nothign to offer you but big hugs of sympathy, and gratefulness that your family is seeing some light now...


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#210 of 214 Old 05-18-2004, 06:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindful Mom
I feel like a failure and I'm sad
Tricia;
and you're NOT a failure. I don't know what else to say, but I hope things are getting better for all of you.
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