CPS whistleblower (video) - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 127 Old 04-21-2015, 11:20 AM
 
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It really doesn't matter what the incentive is. As long as there's an incentive for the states to rip families apart, they'll rip apart even healthy families.

Money's hardly the only incentive that matters in this society. There are a lot of different ways that politicians sway each other, and at the end of the day- that's all government is. A body of people. There could be other ways politicians could be incentivized to increase the number of kids in foster care and getting adopted out- it'd still be horrible.

Social workers aren't individually swayed by money. They don't get a pay raise for putting more kids in foster care. They don't (to my knowledge) get a bonus for each child adopted out. They get other incentives from their superior. Including the incentive of "if you don't, you're fired".

You can say that it comes down to money- they wouldn't be trying to keep their job if not for money, but that's not so simple. I doubt anyone gets into social work solely for the money. Many truly want to do good, and know that they have to work within the system to be able to help the many kids who truly do need it. Taking a child that, in your heart, you know should stay with their family if it means being able to help a dozen kids who truly need help can be worth it. Or you find a way to convince yourself that the child does deserve to be taken, which is why you get the social workers who flip out over a dirty dish.

And, then, they're incentivized to go after families that don't deserve it. Not by anyone in the system: by the families themselves. If you're signing up to spend the next months or years dealing with a group of people, which people would you prefer? The nice, well-behaved people who will work within the system, or the violent and unpredictable abusers who might seriously harm you and the kids with severe mental problems they've raised? I doubt it's a conscious decision, but ultimately the incentive is there. Parents talk about negative and positive reinforcement all the time, its effect doesn't go away once you hit 18.

There's also another problem: bullies. There are some people who enjoy exercising power over others. They tend to be drawn towards positions like social worker and police officer, because they're in a unique position to exert power over a larger section of the population. These people, as long as they can get the authority, would happily rip families apart for free.

Yes, money is an incentive, but I disagree that the problem is capitalism. Incentives will always exist. Even before money, people were finding ways to get ahead and profit off of each other. It's a part of human nature. Capitalism may exacerbate it, but getting rid of money won't get rid of human nature.

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#122 of 127 Old 04-21-2015, 03:29 PM
 
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...Yes, money is an incentive, but I disagree that the problem is capitalism. Incentives will always exist. Even before money, people were finding ways to get ahead and profit off of each other. It's a part of human nature. Capitalism may exacerbate it, but getting rid of money won't get rid of human nature.
What a positive view of capitalism and dim view of human nature. I tend to be the opposite - capitalism sucks and human nature is pretty awesome. I actually believe that absent a centralized government that imo exists to oppress so the rich can get richer (and powerful more powerful) we would all do pretty well figuring stuff out. We're more like bees than bears, we are a species that thrives from team work more than any other. We know that. We don't need big government to control us, on the contrary, we need to be free from big governments that oppress us.

They say people get more conservative as they get older, but in my case the opposite has been true.
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#123 of 127 Old 04-24-2015, 08:29 AM
 
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I think that an organization like the CPS can be reformed without a revolution (overturning capitalism). Lets hope so because I dont think capitalism is going away anytime soon.

I dont see reforms in sight though, because there is no political will. Who wants to side with parents who have been accused of abuse and neglect? (never mind that they are innocent, or accusations are "unsubstantiated")

Noone.

When parents rights are framed against children's rights, you will never get the political will for reform.
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#124 of 127 Old 04-24-2015, 04:45 PM
 
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The current state of the US has me truly amazed at what humans will put up with. I really want to say that reform will come but I don't know if that's true. Look at what else we put up with. No paid parental leave, people constantly going into debt over medical care, etc. Now parents are increasingly altering their behavior out of fear of CPS and... nothing. Nothing gets done. A few people make noise about it, but how many people truly do anything?

I think we've actually struck the perfect balance of disenfranchisement. People have enough that they don't want to lose it, but they have so little that they aren't confident enough to stand up for themselves. The government should be proud of itself. The people should be horrified.

This is a problem that goes beyond CPS. We've got a national epidemic of authority figures abusing power. Doctors, teachers, police, politicians, it's happening all over the place and we're just rolling over and letting it happen. I know that I'm too busy trying to make ends meet to actually change anything.
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#125 of 127 Old Today, 05:19 PM
 
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I think that an organization like the CPS can be reformed without a revolution (overturning capitalism). Lets hope so because I dont think capitalism is going away anytime soon.

I dont see reforms in sight though, because there is no political will. Who wants to side with parents who have been accused of abuse and neglect? (never mind that they are innocent, or accusations are "unsubstantiated")

Noone.

When parents rights are framed against children's rights, you will never get the political will for reform.
Except that eventually if you alienate too many people the scales tip and there's mass civil disobedience.

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The current state of the US has me truly amazed at what humans will put up with. I really want to say that reform will come but I don't know if that's true. Look at what else we put up with. No paid parental leave, people constantly going into debt over medical care, etc. Now parents are increasingly altering their behavior out of fear of CPS and... nothing. Nothing gets done. A few people make noise about it, but how many people truly do anything?

I think we've actually struck the perfect balance of disenfranchisement. People have enough that they don't want to lose it, but they have so little that they aren't confident enough to stand up for themselves. The government should be proud of itself. The people should be horrified.

This is a problem that goes beyond CPS. We've got a national epidemic of authority figures abusing power. Doctors, teachers, police, politicians, it's happening all over the place and we're just rolling over and letting it happen. I know that I'm too busy trying to make ends meet to actually change anything.
I've had similar thoughts many times. To me, once people start experiencing hunger then they will revolt. If bread gets to $10 a loaf and is so much that even a "normal" (middle class) family struggles to feed itself then the state will be in danger of being overthrown. There has never been a time in history where a massive majority has silently withered away while the oppressive but tiny minority dine on hors d'oeuvres. When push comes to shove people will fight.

So, the good news is that the government seems to be forgetting that there is a balance that needs to be maintained in order for the ruling minority to keep its reign. We are getting closer every day to a truly revolutionary situation. When ordinary housewives take to the streets in droves because their babies are hungry, the state revolution. A true revolution is never about left vs. right, it's always about survival.

Not saying that i want that though, they are bloody and messy and let's be honest, women almost always fare worse afterwards, hard as that may be to imagine given how bad it already is for us. Still, as time goes on, we do seem to be edging closer and closer to that point of no return.
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#126 of 127 Old Today, 06:06 PM
 
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I don't think that we're going to reach that point, though. Conservatives that want to slash social programs are certainly pushing us in that direction- but I don't think we'll get there, because enough people push against it. There are enough safety nets. (WIC, SNAP, etc) Hunger is present, way too many kids go to school hungry and their free school lunch is basically the only meal they get each day- but they are getting that meal.

Modern technology is also really making it unlikely. We have far more ways to distract and temporarily amuse ourselves. Look at how many people are glued to smart phones and constantly playing brightly colored, repetitive games.

I don't want a full-on revolution, either. It's not gonna be pretty. I think that we can make changes without bloodshed- and we're making progress. Technology is actually somewhat of an equalizer. Increasingly more people are finding a way to make a living wage on their own creations that probably would never have been able to without the internet. The net is also a powerful tool of activism when used correctly.

It's just taking time. Far more time than if more people would actually do something.

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#127 of 127 Old Today, 08:49 PM
 
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I don't think that we're going to reach that point, though. Conservatives that want to slash social programs are certainly pushing us in that direction- but I don't think we'll get there, because enough people push against it. There are enough safety nets. (WIC, SNAP, etc) Hunger is present, way too many kids go to school hungry and their free school lunch is basically the only meal they get each day- but they are getting that meal.

Modern technology is also really making it unlikely. We have far more ways to distract and temporarily amuse ourselves. Look at how many people are glued to smart phones and constantly playing brightly colored, repetitive games.

I don't want a full-on revolution, either. It's not gonna be pretty. I think that we can make changes without bloodshed- and we're making progress. Technology is actually somewhat of an equalizer. Increasingly more people are finding a way to make a living wage on their own creations that probably would never have been able to without the internet. The net is also a powerful tool of activism when used correctly.

It's just taking time. Far more time than if more people would actually do something.
"I think that we can make changes without bloodshed- and we're making progress...It's just taking time."

I really like this conversation we're having so i hope you'll forgive me for disagreeing with you again, but i feel i have to.

Things objectively <b> aren't </b> getting better. The wages between the richest and the poorest are growing. The richest are taking more of the pie now than they have in many decades. The middle class is shrinking as is its buying power. More women are dying in childbirth. We've now discovered that the real wage gap is between mothers and non mothers, where mothers make 60-something cents to the man's dollar, and single mothers make fifty something cents to the mans dollar, while men's wages go up when they have children. There is massive violence against women that is normalized through our media and perpetuated in reality then ignored by the state, or, worse, perpetuated by the state.

Here's a single piece on income inequality. I know it's journalism but the figures can be found in bank reports too, i imagine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-...b_6249904.html

Here's a piece on rising maternal mortality:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5340648.html

Here's a single example of the epidemic of law enforcement ignoring/enabling sexual violence against women:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...-report-finds:


Here's a link to wikipedia page describing the phenomenon sociologists at Stanford discovered, now aptly named the motherhood penalty and fatherhood bonus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherhood_penalty

And, of course, the subject of this thread. The growing military state perpetuating violence against good people, imprisoning and strongly coming down on anyone who dares to question anything.

So, you see, women think things have gotten better for us because we have the "privilege" of earning a wage. Meanwhile as soon as we use our ability to reproduce and are arguably in a more vulnerable situation as a result, society openly capitalizes on that and uses it as an opportunity to have an army of desperate low income wage earners who will say/do anything to feed their babies. And, the choice of whether or not to have more babies is not even entirely our own decision, since employers can opt out for religious/conscience purposes. Meanwhile women's bodies are splattered all over the media and used as sex objects to sell products, and females are still generally portrayed as being subordinate.

I don't see how any of this is an improvement over how things were in the 70's. Things are worse for everyone, except the tiny ruling minority, now than they were a few decades ago. And it's only getting worse. Because of greed. And we can count on that, can't we. They will never ever ever have enough. They will take more and more and more. And eventually we will be very hungry. Then things will change, because there won't be a choice anymore. I too wish it wouldn't have to come to this, but it will. Because, unfortunately, for every nice kind person there is a total as*hat. And if there was a war between 50 good and 50 evil people - who would win? Remember the evil people are, presumably, willing to do things the good would never do. So they have a natural advantage. So anyway, that's relevant because i don't believe we're all bad, i just believe that the bad people want to have power way more than the good do.

What a long rant!!!
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