Why I am not surprised?
Carlos Morales's website: http://www.truthovercomfort.net/
Thankyou so much for this.
Ive heard that if you get a bad worker from the CPS, there is little you can do to stop their unjust intrusion upon your family..other than-dont open the door without a warrant.
To the comment-'i dont see any incenctive for the CPS to 'kidnap' a child', well they get paid.(according to the video at least) The question should be, what mechansim is in place to prevent the unjust removal of a child. There just doesnt seem to be one. Its not enough to rely on the good intentions of the workers, because what if they dont have good intentions? And with all due respect, i dont want to place the well being of my child on the tenuous foundation of a strangers' good intentions.
Also, are the pps implying that this video is a fake or the guy is lying? What would be his incentive for doing that?
Having said that, your posts are reassuring, but questions still need to be answered.
I just dont see why someone would make a video like this if there wasnt some truth to it. I also wish that my questions could be answered, but never seem to be in these discussions.
The state can get funding for each child in foster care. So the employee does not- but the higher-ups put pressure on them, and if they won't do "their job", the higher ups will find someone who will. I know that in CT, it used to be really bad and I think the federal government had to come in and fix the whole system. www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141662357/incentives-and-cultural-bias-fuel-foster-system South Dakota was (if it isn't still) really bad for unjustly removing children because they got federal money for foster kids and got even more money for Native kids in foster care. At least one time the state even tried to put the kids up for adoption despite having no right to take them or keep them from their parents. It looks like the CPS workers are given information that makes them think they're doing the right thing, the problem is that the information is bad. One person on this forum also works in an area where CPS is really suspect (and you'll see that others in the thread are in areas where CPS is much better quality).
I hope that most CPS workers ultimately want to do good, but if the system is messed up, they won't be able to. I imagine that some CPS workers end up disenchanted and bitter from seeing the problems in the system as well.
The system varies a lot from state-to-state, and I believe it may also from county-to-county. Hopefully the good CPS departments outnumber the bad ones and that the bad ones will continue being improved.
Thankyou for sharing this sillysapling..
That NPR story is truly appalling and makes me want to vomit.
Thats what i call abuse of power and pure racism. I'm really sick of people defending the CPS at all costs when there are stories such as this. When someone breaks the news, such as the above video, they are somehow lying, because 'there are people who think children should stay in abusive homes". Noone thinks that.
Perhaps some states have more ethical CPS systems than others.
I would still like to know what are the mechanisms in any CPS system that prevents this appalling abuse of power.
Some are missing the big picture though as others have pointed out, this is nowhere near being just a Native American problem. Stories like this are rampant throughout our entire nation, and no one believes you when you describe how children can be taken without any justification. I hope this NPR report is the beginning of a trend.>>
<<I guess the point of bringing up the money issue is to illustrate how there is no real "incentive" for family preservation. The incentive does lie in removal. I don't think that means, necessarily, that there are workers out there in large numbers, wickedly plotting to snatch kids for financial reasons. I DO think that the money issue skews decision making from the top down. You have the issue of "erring on the side of caution", to avoid mistakenly leaving a child with a real abuser, and you couple that with federal dollars that encourage the same, and you have a recipe for disaster, no evil intentions necessary.
I do appreciate you acknowledging the corruption and the possibility of mistakes being made in the other direction. Few do. Sometimes I feel like one of the lone voices long ago declaring that the world is ROUND when everyone believed otherwise. Having lived through a nightmare of CPS mistakes with a traumatized child as the end result, but having also seen the other side (dear friends murdered by an abusive non-custodial parent, including a 10 year old child, after CPS and police knew for months about abuse), I don't know what the answer is, but something needs to change, that's for sure.
AndrewCooper wrote: "Where is the reporting about the judges who very likely have to approve of a long term foster care placement, how about there serving of the parents/guardians of these children with formal notice of court proceedings."
Andrew, if you have worked in the system, then surely you have witnessed family court judges who have no interest in doing anything contrary to what a worker suggests? Judges who refuse to let parents speak during these court proceedings? Right?
I find it frustrating how those who have worked in the system will often point out the laws and procedures and rules, as some sort of proof that this sort of thing could never happen. Or rarely happens. As if the rules and laws are not neglected, ignored, or broken EVERY DAY in the child protection system!>>>
I was looking for checks and balances, and found this website instead-all the reasons why the CPS across the board should be reformed...
1. Agents who never had children and don't understand that a few toys in the corner of the room is not a hazardous mess.
2. Agents are not trained in real evidence recognition. In fact, no Agent in CPS has any training in evidence, the Constitution or criminal justice. They are given anywhere from 3 to 6 months of training, being taught that it is ok to break into a Home without probable cause or exigent circumstances.
3. Agents are trained to use subjective speculation and not objective factual reporting.
4. The Agents do not get psychological evaluations. A number of Agents who were abused as a child themselves see abuse in every home they go into, even if it's not there.
5. Most States do not require Agents to have a degree in Social Sciences. Any degree will do, doesn't even have to be related to the field.
6. The Agency has no checks and balances. A field Agent can lie to a judge or police officer with absolutely no proof and have it entered as factual evidence in a court of law!
7. Agents are trained to believe they are immune from the authority of the First Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Fifth Amendment, Sixth Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment. They violate this in every investigation done nationwide.
Here are the statistics and sources to support these facts:
End quote -see website
Constitutional Violations and Court Rulings that CPS Ignores to this very day!
1. It's unconstitutional for CPS to conduct an investigation and interview a child on private property without exigent circumstances or probable cause. - Doe et al, v. Heck et al (No. 01-3648, 2003 US App. Lexis 7144)
2. All CPS workers in the United States are subject to the 4th and 14th Amendment - Walsh v. Erie County Dept. of Job and Family Services, 3:01-cv-7588
3. Police officers and social workers are not immune for coercing or forcing entry into a person's home without a search warrant. Calabretta v. Floyd (9th Cir. 1999)
4. The mere possibility of danger does not constitute an emergency or exigent circumstance that would justify a forced warrantless entry and a warrantless seizure of a child. Hurlman v. Rice (2nd Cir. 1991)
5. Police officer and social worker may not conduct a warrantless search or seizure in a suspected child abuse case absent exigent circumstances. Defendants must have reason to believe that life or limb is in immediate jeopardy and that the intrusion is reasonable necessary to alleviate the threat. Searches and seizures in investigation of a child neglect or child abuse case at a home are governed by the same principles as other searches and seizures at a home. Goodv. Dauphin County Social Services (3rd Cir. 1989)
6. The Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures extends beyond criminal investigations and includes conduct by social workers in the context of a child neglect/abuse investigation. Lenz v. Winburn (11th Cir. 1995)
7. Making false statements made to obtain a warrant, when the false statements were necessary to the finding of probable cause on which the warrant was based, violates the Fourth Amendment's warrant requirement. Aponte Matos v. Toledo Davilla (1st Cir. 1998)
Here are a couple of reforms the writer suggests, the sound good to me...
II. Have the abuse allegations investigated by a Detective or Police Officer, who are trained for this as a career, whereas CPS workers are not. All investigations are joint ones with said Officers of the Law and with warrants properly issues under probable cause.
III. Re-train Agents to respect and obey the laws of the Constitution of the United States. If a family is guilty of abuse, a legal investigation will find it.
VI. All interviews to be audio and video recorded just like it happens with the police!
VII. Hold CPS Agents and foster parents and the records keeper responsible for every child who vanishes or dies in their care for their location.
VIII. Also investigate the person or persons reporting the abuse, and if done maliciously with intent to disrupt a family, prosecute the reporter to the fullest extent of the Law regarding making false claims to Government Agencies to affect an unnecessary and costly investigation.
I got this from http://fight-cps.rallycongress.com/1448
What ever happened to that Russian family in Sacramento who had their son taken from them when they went to another hospital for another opinion since the first hospital did not seem to know what they were doing? It has been almost a year and the little boy is almost 18 months. The baby boy was returned physically to the parents, but ON PAPER, the child is still a ward of the state for at least another six to twelve months after the court date. So that is why I ask.
There was a home video of the CPS barging in and ripping the child from the mother's arms, but I think that may have been removed...mmmm.
As for personal stories, a crazy person reported my sister's children and they were taken from her and put in foster care where they were molested. My nephew told me that he was repeatedly beaten and raped by the older son in the foster home. When this was brought up in family court, the judge struck my nephew's statement from the record and moved on to something else. My sister was afraid to say anything since she just wanted her children back.
Thank you contactmaya, for your excellent post.
I had a CPS person come to my door 21 years ago and demand entrance without an ID. I let her in, but I followed her out to her car and got her license plate, and that is when she finally showed me her ID. I never had a problem with her again.
Years later, when another false report was made about me, I met the CPS person at the door with my GSD, rolling video recorder and microphone, and told her to get a warrant if she thought I was worth it. I learned my lesson.
It only takes one call from a malicious person, or someone who has nothing better to do than say, after seeing a child whose pants a size too small, calls the CPS, it takes that one call, and you letting them in, and you are on record forever. It doesnt matter if you what kind of parent you are. You just got unlucky that someone made the call, and you let them in. Your name goes int he system, and Gd forbid, if ever another call is made.
Dont let them in without a warrant.
In fact, i will print out the webpage i just quoted above, and keep it at the door, in case anyone comes knocking again. Ill hand them the printout and tell them to get a warrant.
(theres more detailed info on that website, i recommend reading it thoroughly)
Anyone can make a call for any reason. My toddler occasionally runs down our hallway naked (she is often naked at home) while we are getting ready to leave. All it takes is a mean neighbor, and there are a couple of them in my building.
I worry about it, because i know how easy it is for something to happen.
Im so glad i know not to open the door.
In finding alot of scary things about CPS on you tube, and will link them later.
It's a very complicated issue- those who've been badly hurt by the system tend to root out the bad experiences and focus on them, ignoring the good ones as outliers. I imagine the person who made the list contactmaya made had had a very bad experience and/or knew many others who had as well. It's possible that they're in an area with a VERY awful CPS.
Also, for all that CPS can be too invasive- I've also known people who were left in abusive homes despite numerous calls and checks from CPS social workers. Sometimes, they see abuse where it isn't but sometimes they don't see abuse where it is. Both are awful situations, they can do serious damage whichever call they make, and it's impossible for them to be perfect.
Alright, the fact that it takes 2 people to make a call-thats what i call 'checks and balances' on the potential abuse of power. But i have not seen this anywhere but your post. I think its a very good idea, and your local CPS sounds like a good one.
Add that to the list of reforms.
People can call for any reason at all! They can call because they dont like you! They could call because my toddler is naked in the hallway-maybe they think a naked toddler is a form of neglect. Maybe you do. Maybe the social worker that comes in does. I mean, its completely random. And one call is enough in many places.
They might call because they hear you shouting at your kids. Now i dont think shouting is good parenting, but it happens, and neighbors hear it, and you see, they could call for that.
You should do your research and see the types of things that are going on.
In a democracy, there is due process. This is not the middle ages, where a witch who doesnt drown when submerged in water is innocent and if she drowns, she is guilty. We have due process, law courts, laws, and constitution, and cps workers do not respect this due process.
Philomom, read the website i linked above, and have a look at these videos.
People are not saying, abolish CPS, they are saying reform it.
I feel strongly about this because it appalls me to see how families are treated. (see the youtube link) I dont have any personal negative experience other than the usual attention from random stangers because i have kids.
And i just dont understand why people keep defending the CPS in face of all of this information.
You just said, 'People dont call unless there is a good reason'. Thats like saying, you are guilty, because someone called.
Maybe YOU dont call unless you have a good reason. I dont doubt that you are a good person, but that says nothing about the ethics of CPS.
ps. i meant to add, that if someone calls for spurious reasons, and the CPS finds after a 60 day rigorous invasion into the family's privacy, that the family is just fine, and the parents are actually above average. Tough luck. Youre in the system.
How is fair to brand someone for life on the basis of one spurious call, and because the family didnt know they just didnt have to open the door?
They shouldnt keep records of those who were not found to be bad parents. But they do!
Youre baby runs naked down the hallway, someone calls CPS you answer the door, and boom! You are in their records for life.
The foster home my nephew went to for several months did not speak English.
Im quoting this from a petition i found for reform of the CPS. I thought i'd pass it along.
Thousands of families are being torn apart by CPS. CPS gets a bonus every time they remove a child from their home. Have you ever noticed the children the make the news are the ones that have been killed, molested, tortured and treated like animals, actually worse then animals. Have you ever stopped and really listened to what the media has said about them, i have that CPS was involved and they were trying to keep the family together, this really is disgusting, because the truth is these are damaged children and CPS cant place them in homes. They need healthy children emotionally and physically. They also come from families that don't have the means to hire an attorney that will fight CPS.That's why the media will not interview us about my grandchildren. They haven't been abused and aren't news worthy. Please help me to get this out there, we are not the only ones going through this. If we all stand together we can make a difference.
Here is a list of reccomendations Georgia Senator Nancy Schaefer had wanted to impose upon CPS and I believe we should help her to get these changes made. her voice was silenced due to an apparent murder/suicide after she started to expose CPS for the corrupt government organization that they are.
1. Call for an independent audit of the Department of Family and Children’s Services
(DFCS) to expose corruption and fraud.
2. Activate immediate change. Every day that passes means more families and children
are subject to being held hostage.
3. End the financial incentives that separate families.
4. Grant to parents their rights in writing.
5. Mandate a search for family m... embers to be given the opportunity to adopt their
6. Mandate a jury trial where every piece of evidence is presented before removing a
child from his or her parents.
7. Require a warrant or a positive emergency circumstance
before removing children from their parents. (Judge Arthur G. Christean, Utah Bar
Journal, January, 1997 reported that “except in emergency circumstances, including
the need for immediate medical care, require warrants upon affidavits of probable
cause before entry upon private property is permitted for the forcible removal of
children from their parents.”)
8. Uphold the laws when someone fabricates or presents false evidence. If a parent
alleges fraud, hold a hearing with the right to discovery of all evidence.
Senator Nancy Schaefer
50th District of Georgia
Something else to consider- i actually saw a case this this on mothering, where a mother was asking for help.
(ps.i hope passing on this info is helpful. I really didnt intend to do posting all of this, but theres alot out there that we should know about)
The Situation as it Usually Unfolds
In brief, the particular problem we cover usually unfolds like this. A mother herself seeks help from CPS or becomes involved with CPS through someone else's report of suspected child abuse. Her child has been physically or sexually abused by a family member, usually by a male family member, or there are concerns the child is living in a home where there is domestic violence. At first, the mother naturally anticipates that CPS will try to help her and her child, and try to punish and stop the perpetrator. So these mothers are stunned when suddenly the CPS/juvenile court system turns its sights on her, even though everyone agrees she didn't perpetrate the abuse or violence.
Suddenly she is the one under investigation, and the perpetrator is seeming to be all but ignored. And worse, CPS is threatening to take her child from her, or has already done so without warning or notice, and is threatening to keep the child, right at the time that mother and child need each other most. She feels the system turn hostile toward her. Did she, the non-offending parent, protect the child from the violent parent? Did she protect the child from molestation? Did she protect the child from being exposed to domestic violence in the home? Well, no, obviously she did not, or could not, or, in the case of molestation, often didn't know about it.
The legal and evidentiary constraints on CPS powers are so minimal, that if you do assert your rights to CPS, the CPS worker can easily retaliate against you using the system's virtually unchecked power against you. The worker can easily make vague and prejudiced accusations against you such as 'instability', 'alienating your child from the other parent', 'failure to protect', 'should have known about the abuse', or 'engaging in domestic violence' even though you're the victim of the violence. (None of which accusations are crimes.) And then the worker can support that accusation against you in the juvenile court with the smallest tidbit of evidence, even the most bogus of evidence, or with evidence that wouldn't even be admissible in a criminal court. And with that the CPS system can take your child.
(Remember, the CPS/juvenile court system operates on the 'preponderance of the evidence' standard, 51% of the evidence, the lowest judicial standard of evidence. This means that all CPS has to do is present to the court 1% more evidence on their side than you present on your side, and CPS wins. So once CPS makes an accusation against you, it is extremely difficult for you to defend yourself, and very easy for CPS to railroad the case against you.)