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EnviroBecca's Avatar EnviroBecca 03:09 PM 04-02-2007
Quote:
EnviroBecca--about your comment on the dishwashing and halloween party and everyone getting what they need: The Secret is based on the law of attraction, and so is much of the concepts in CC--maybe I would say entirely. I personally feel that this concept is really at the core of human existence, and that most cultures today have chosen to not live by it. Well, the Yequanas seemed to live and breath the law of attraction. Remember everything about parental expectations in the book, and how our children behave accordingly? [...] Imo, it doesn't matter what she did afterwards, that's not the point of the story.
Um, if the point of the story is that our children behave in accordance with our expectations, then how can it not matter how AmyMN's child behaves after AmyMN expresses her expectations? : She's told us how her approach "worked" in terms of her own thoughts but not how it "worked" on her daughter.

I mean, this is the "translation" of the dialogue as I understand it:
Child: "Mom! I want to do a specific activity, and I want you to participate!"
Mom: "I hear what you want to do. I am doing something else now."
Child: "Do what I want you to do!"
Mom: "I am doing something, and you want something different to happen. We all get what we want at the same time!"
It seems to me that the last sentence is a direct contradiction of the previous sentence. If I were the child, I probably would conclude that my mother was not listening to me, or that she was blowing me off with a half-thought-out attempt to be nice about it. : That's why I am so curious about how AmyMN's daughter reacted.

Interesting thoughts on "Don't watch me!" My son is not showing any other signs of being particularly independent: He still wants to co-sleep, do everything we do all day long, get us involved in whatever he has decided to do (except eat rocks), and talk to us a lot. While there are times when I hyperfocus on him, walking home is not one of them, particularly after we cross the street for the last time; I just walk, looking back about every 30 seconds to see how he's doing, and I don't wait for him unless going on would put us so far on opposite sides of the peak of the hill on our street that I wouldn't be able to see him anymore (so we get up to 100 feet apart, but typically he keeps within 30 feet), and I don't go back to where he is unless he appears to need rescuing. He was a very competent pedestrian until this rock-eating, which seems to have come out of nowhere.

WuWei's Avatar WuWei 03:53 PM 04-02-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
Um, if the point of the story is that our children behave in accordance with our expectations, then how can it not matter how AmyMN's child behaves after AmyMN expresses her expectations? : She's told us how her approach "worked" in terms of her own thoughts but not how it "worked" on her daughter.

I mean, this is the "translation" of the dialogue as I understand it:
Child: "Mom! I want to do a specific activity, and I want you to participate!"
Mom: "I hear what you want to do. I am doing something else now."
Child: "Do what I want you to do!"
Mom: "I am doing something, and you want something different to happen. We all get what we want at the same time!"
It seems to me that the last sentence is a direct contradiction of the previous sentence. If I were the child, I probably would conclude that my mother was not listening to me, or that she was blowing me off with a half-thought-out attempt to be nice about it. : That's why I am so curious about how AmyMN's daughter reacted.
Quote:
I'm cleaning the kitchen with dd2 (1) in the learning tower. Dd1 (5) yells from the other room, "Mom! I want us to have a halloween party. You get all the stuff for making decorations!"

Me: "That sounds like fun. I'm washing the dishes."

Dd1: GO GET THE STUFF!

Me: "I'm washing the dishes and you want a halloween party. We all get what we want at the same time!"

My thoughts, "I'm really happy that we get to share this house together and be together all day. Dd1 is so creative and active. I love getting the kitchen clean. The universe is abundant and we all get our needs met."

Dd1 runs into the kitchen and I give her a hug and give her a handful of dishsoap bubbles.
Above is the original quote. This is a nuancy area where CC observations of the tribe, and Aldort's validation, don't automatically meet everyone's needs/wants/desires, imo. Granted, we are not *responsible* for meeting other's needs, imo. But, I desire to facilitate an interconnected relationship where I do help others in our family to meet their needs, concurrently with my own. So, by each stating our needs, as in the example above, we each have the *autonomy* to meet our own needs. Mama does dishes, and child has the ability to come be present with mama. The same solution could be reached and be preferable, or merely be a compromise. Finding ways where each's preferences are met, involves more discussion, imo, than CC or Aldort represents. The *action* after we validate can be autonomous or interconnected.

Perhaps, the hug and bubbles are *preferable* to both parties. Perhaps, not. Maybe the child prefers doing something with the mama, maybe the mama prefers doing the dishes alone, maybe they both would prefer something different and delay their individual strategies. But, when one is 'non-negotiable' about further discussion of another's preferences and just states their own need/want/desire, the abundant possibilities are not being sought. Only the initial two stated strategies are on the table.

Granted, the self-talk of guilt and satisfaction are different when the expectation differs. In the first, the mama's self-talk is that *she* is responsible for solving for the "demands". In the second, the mama's self-talk is that the *child* is responsible for solving their own need/want/desire. A further step is to discuss the strategies on the table and seek to identify the underlying needs of both, transparently and vocally. THEN, abundant solutions which are *preferable* to both can be sought based upon each's specific requests of the other. For instance, 'I can come play when I am done with the dishes. Do you want to help me finish them up?' Or, 'Mama, would you come play when you are done?'






Quote:
Interesting thoughts on "Don't watch me!" My son is not showing any other signs of being particularly independent: He still wants to co-sleep, do everything we do all day long, get us involved in whatever he has decided to do (except eat rocks), and talk to us a lot. While there are times when I hyperfocus on him, walking home is not one of them, particularly after we cross the street for the last time; I just walk, looking back about every 30 seconds to see how he's doing, and I don't wait for him unless going on would put us so far on opposite sides of the peak of the hill on our street that I wouldn't be able to see him anymore (so we get up to 100 feet apart, but typically he keeps within 30 feet), and I don't go back to where he is unless he appears to need rescuing. He was a very competent pedestrian until this rock-eating, which seems to have come out of nowhere.
My experience is that ds has said similar "Mama, don't watch!" when I have given him information/caution which he doesn't want to apply, but doesn't want to cause me discomfort with his actions either. He solves it by asking me not to watch. Sorta like when we suggest he close his bedroom door when I use the blender. He doesn't like the noise, and out of consideration for his discomfort, we suggest a way he can avoid experiencing the event. I believe it is an effective means of having autonomy and showing empathy. Or it could be to avoid "getting in trouble" in some homes. But, we don't have that dynamic. I don't believe it is being "too present"; perhaps it is more a sense of growing independence.

The other thought, is if you are walking far ahead, he could be seeking out your attention by intentionally notifying you that he is going to do something he *knows* causes you concern. I know our son will *wail* about an Ouch! if he needs more TLC and an opportunity to connect with me. Sort of a siren of a underlying need, to affect the outcome that he desires. Mostly, this exaggerated reaction is when he is tired and is less able to just ask for what he needs directly.


Pat
LucyRev's Avatar LucyRev 04:03 PM 04-02-2007
I am not judging or trying to tell you what to do here, just wanted to share a story. When my daughter was 2, she was very competent, always stayed within my sight and on the sidewalk. I trusted her common sense. I didn't overly focus on the dangers of cars or how she should stay right next to me.

One day when we were walking into the house, she got a strange look on her face and quietly said, "I'm going to run to the the street now." She was behind me in our yard while I was bringing in groceries. I turned and said STOP! but she was already running full speed straight into the street. She ran so fast that she tripped over her feet and fell flat in the middle of the road. I nearly had a heart attack. Thank god the road was clear. She may have looked before she ran, but cars come quickly, and there's quite a blind spot...

I asked her why she did it and she said she just wanted to. She never did it again. I think she was just testing what would happen. She has always been one to learn through experience. Sometimes she will do something that has hurt her in the past because she trusts the she can do it this time, and I assume she doesn't really mind getting hurt. She's such a thrill seeker.
EnviroBecca's Avatar EnviroBecca 03:00 PM 04-04-2007
Quote:
My experience is that ds has said similar "Mama, don't watch!" when I have given him information/caution which he doesn't want to apply, but doesn't want to cause me discomfort with his actions either. He solves it by asking me not to watch.
Hmmm! That might be it!

Quote:
The other thought, is if you are walking far ahead, he could be seeking out your attention by intentionally notifying you that he is going to do something he *knows* causes you concern.
No, he only says it when I am very nearby and already looking at him. When I get far ahead and look back to see him eating rocks, he hasn't said anything first.
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 12:04 PM 04-09-2007
THE DAILY GROOVE ~ by Scott Noelle www.enjoyparenting.com/dailygroove

:: The Power of AND ::

Today we'll expand our vocabulary with a new verb: AND

To AND means to include that which is normally
excluded. When you take two things that are supposed
to be exclusive, opposed, or incompatible, and put
them together anyway, you are AND-ing.

Consider this situation with an exhausted parent:

"I want to take a nap, BUT my child wants
me to play with her. One of us has to lose.
It's EITHER her OR me."

To AND that situation, try this perspective:

"I want to take a nap, AND my child wants
me to play with her. Both of us can win.
BOTH her AND me."

AND-ing is an act of faith, because initially you
don't know *how* both sides will experience a win.
But you trust that in a Universe of infinite possibility,
there *must* be a way.

AND-ing opens your creative channels and makes you
susceptible to inspiration. And before you know it,
you and your child are playing a game called
"Sleeping Giant." :-)

http://dailygroove.net/and

Today's Daily Groove message was originally
presented on September 8, 2006.

Feel free to forward this message to your friends!

Copyright (c) 2007 by Scott Noelle
flowers 01:34 PM 04-09-2007
I really connected with that dailygroove. Thanks for the the post!
KBug's Avatar KBug 02:53 PM 04-09-2007
I highly recommend subscribing to the Daily Groove - it's always inspiring and uplifting!
flowers 03:02 PM 04-09-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBug View Post
I highly recommend subscribing to the Daily Groove - it's always inspiring and uplifting!
Thanks for the inspirations! I just did!
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 11:38 AM 04-10-2007
EnviroBecca, i read your concerns a few days ago. I understand them. I struggle with 'all get what we want' concept too. I BELIEVE IN IT. So I'm not going to doubt it, or expect someone to prove it to me. OTOH, I do need a lot of support with it because it doesn't come naturally to me.

Thanks, Pat, for your clarifications (and Kmamma too).
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 12:06 PM 04-10-2007
So, in light of what you said, Pat, as well as in light of the LOA/Consensual Living/TCC...

My dd1 (5) likes a lot of interaction, she likes to talk a lot, ask a lot of questions. She likes inventing projects, and asking me to gather all the supplies, and asking me to work on them throughout our day. Also throughout the day, she makes several requests for snacks, to get her dressed, to carry her around the house, to get her ice water, to get, to get, to get...

I understand that she is trying to connect with me. And I want her to always feel comfortable asking for what she wants. I enjoy being around my two daughters all day and night (I also have a nursing 1.5 year old; we three cosleep).

Starting this week, dd1 will be taking four park/recreation classes a week (from 30 minutes to 1.5 hours each). As long as she loves them, I'll keep her in them (we're unschoolers). I'm really relieved because all the attention and focus will be off of me, and dd1 will be getting those needs met which seem overwhelming to me. Yet, the classes aren't that long so we'll get to be together the rest of the time.

What I'd really like is a live-in nanny (wouldn't we all) to be the structure and the routine and facilitator in our family with whom each of us could or would not have to participate. I could still be with my kids and available for my kids; but there would be someone else that can be the fun kindergarten-teacher type that I just don't want to be.

I feel guilty for not wanting to be this on one hand. But then after doing an exercise where I wrote everything I want in my life, it all involves things like being a great homemaker (housekeeping, cooking) for myself and my family, exercising, writing, dancing...and not so much "coloring and playing restaurant". My kids are always welcome to join me in what I'm doing; and I'm always around 99.999 percent of the time.

Anyway, I'd like to know your take on this. I'm almost ready to give Scott Noelle another call for more coaching.

P.S. I do a lot of start-and-stopping with anything I'm working on to care for my 1.5 year old (nursing, EC/diapers, carrying around, and so forth) in addition to helping dd1

I feel like I'm a big disappointment to my dd1--like I don't quite make the grade.
EnviroBecca's Avatar EnviroBecca 05:26 PM 04-10-2007
AmyMN, it sounds to me like these classes likely will be just what your daughter needs to fill her desire for structured fun. Don't feel bad that you can't provide it! No one person is everything to anyone. Learning from a variety of people will enrich your daughter's life. I bet that if a Yequana mama is washing dishes, and her daughter comes over clamoring that she wants to weave a rug, mama doesn't waste a moment feeling bad about not wanting to teach weaving (now or ever) but simply points her daughter to someone who is weaving.

Have you tried suggesting to your daughter that she take charge of whatever project she is asking you to take charge of? When I was around that age, I started spending a lot of time doing things like deciding who among my friends and family would play which character if I were casting a play of Alice in Wonderland and drawing up the program...with enthusiastic ideas about actually making this production happen, but when I'd go find my mom and tell her all about it and show her the program (while she was baking bread, or whatever) she'd express great admiration for my careful planning and ask questions to help me further embroider my fantasy ("What color costume would each of them wear?"), and after a while I'd feel so satisfied with it that I'd go on to something else.
JohnnysGirl's Avatar JohnnysGirl 10:41 AM 04-11-2007
AmyMN,
I feel exactly the same way about my 3.5 year old son....he is also kind of a 'entertain me entertain me entertain me' all day long kinda guy, and since we haven't had naps in nearly a year, it is a loooooong 13 hours to spend with him without a break, with a 19 month old needing everything that toddlers need, all the time, including total silence for nurse-to-sleep naptime ( ha! ), and I nurse him throughout the night in our family bed, with my older son finally sleeping peacefully througout the night on my other side (for two years until just recently he was waking up with strange night terrors that would last hours and they were several times a week and just so, so hard to deal with). I'll set him up to draw or paint and he just wants me to come in and do it for him while he watches. He is so happy and content as long as I'm 'performing' for him some little nifty trick, and giving him all kinds of attention minute-to-minute, but if I try to attend to our younger son or heaven forbid clean/cook/use the bathroom, I've got both of them just clamoring me down to shower them with attention. The younger boy I don't mind at all him being the way he is, of course, I'll even nurse him while I'm sitting on the toilet, sure, no problem, I answer any request he has for me without any exhasperation, but my older..... I do wish he be a little more innovative about how to fill his time and a little less needing me to hold his hand and actually play FOR him while he observes with a grin. I feel like a circus monkey in this role, and for that I feel a little guilty, too. I do feel like I am falling short in that 'kindergarten teacher' smiley enthusiasm for painting/blocks/train/etc play that my son needs me to provide all day long. I haven't had a minute just for myself in ages, not for a nap, not for a private shower, not for a walk, not to get to the gym, not to just lay back and daydream while my kids play near me....because there is no play unless mom is providing the entertainment, pretty much. I do catch the boys playing together for five minutes at a time before it erupts in hysterical fighting over a toy, but it's barely long enough to start preparing a meal or clean a spot in the home before there's some violent outbreak between them where I feel compelled to protect little brother since he's so outmatched in terms of size and bad-guy attitude (but mostly because when DS1 lashes out and hits him and growls about something, his FEELINGS are absolutely crushed and he crumples to the floor, bereft and crying and I feel like I must soothe the little one year old).
I too dream of on-site help for the bulk of the kids' active hours, (the early hours of the morning being fine, eating breakfast, and slowly getting ready for the day AND the evening winding-down hours being fine before bed), as the between after-lunch time and time-to-make-dinner time, with the crisis being when I try to get the younger for a nap, it would be great to have a nanny entertainer to provide some fresh games and activities and direct, good-mood, stimulating attention for them to burn energy with, while I'm around if anyone needs a hug or a nurse or wants to join in to what I'm doing (I'd love to start playing the flute again and it would be fine to have an audience if the boys get interested in listening, but I assume they'd be bored and looking for their "nanny-activity-leader" after 30 seconds) but I'd know that the boys' need for doing doing doing all kinds of play activities that I get burned out of if I have to be doing 13 hours nonstop per day, but appreciate that my oldest son never gets bored of, are being met. Just to read during the afternoons for a half hour would be awesome, as after bedtime I am so fried and exhausted to read without falling asleep. I'm actually considering getting a live-in au pair, as we can't afford a real nanny. Has any CC mamas on this thread tried that?b
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 11:28 AM 04-11-2007
I didn't read all your post yet. It wasn't until almost age 4 that my dd1 ventured off on her own around the house! The more I wished she would, of course, the more she clung to me. Kids know everything we're feeling (not saying they understand it). Even at 5, she's still somewhat like this. I really think it's due to me wanting her to be more independent. I'm doing things differently with dd2.

I've done a 'mama's helper' before where a homeschooling 10-year-old came over to play with dd1 for a couple hours a week. I paid her like $2/hour. It didn't last long as they moved. I think it's hard to find older kids, these days, that know how to and like to play with younger kids.

For me, really, I think neighborhood kids would solve most of these problems for me! I think only another kid can keep up with my dd1 We don't have kids in our 'hood. So I'm visualizing families with whom we get along with moving into the two homes for sale (plus the two soon-to-be-for-sale homes). Come on cool neighbors!
EnviroBecca's Avatar EnviroBecca 01:07 PM 04-11-2007
I am hoping for cool neighbors too! There are two places for sale and two for rent on our block...and we live in the middle of a row of 3 houses and have always been sad that our conjoined neighbors have been so distant, not unfriendly exactly but keeping to themselves and giving us the briefest of waves on those rare occasions when we actually see each other...but recently we think the one neighbor may have died (I am appalled that we don't actually know and that the only way I could think of to find out was to look for a newspaper obit!) and the other seems to have stopped renting rooms to grad students and has a lot of junk on his porch, so perhaps he's getting ready to leave...so we are hoping both houses will sell to friendly people and we'll live in a village! Any ideas on how to use The Secret or any other type of positive thinking to attract compatible neighbors?
flowers 02:14 PM 04-11-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
I am hoping for cool neighbors too! There are two places for sale and two for rent on our block...and we live in the middle of a row of 3 houses and have always been sad that our conjoined neighbors have been so distant, not unfriendly exactly but keeping to themselves and giving us the briefest of waves on those rare occasions when we actually see each other...but recently we think the one neighbor may have died (I am appalled that we don't actually know and that the only way I could think of to find out was to look for a newspaper obit!) and the other seems to have stopped renting rooms to grad students and has a lot of junk on his porch, so perhaps he's getting ready to leave...so we are hoping both houses will sell to friendly people and we'll live in a village! Any ideas on how to use The Secret or any other type of positive thinking to attract compatible neighbors?
Ooooo! What a delicious situation to be in! I would just keep daydreaming and envisioning the type of community/friends you WANT! Don't even get into the "I hope" or "If only cool neighbors..." kind of thoughts. Just sit back and think about block parties, family dinner cooperatives, potlucks etc! I know great neighbors will move into your neighborhood!
zansmama's Avatar zansmama 10:11 PM 04-11-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflymom View Post
he is also kind of a 'entertain me entertain me entertain me' all day long kinda guy, and since we haven't had naps in nearly a year, it is a loooooong 13 hours to spend with him without a break... I'll set him up to draw or paint and he just wants me to come in and do it for him while he watches. He is so happy and content as long as I'm 'performing' for him some little nifty trick, and giving him all kinds of attention minute-to-minute, but if I try to attend to our younger son or heaven forbid clean/cook/use the bathroom, I've got both of them just clamoring me down to shower them with attention...
... I've abbreviated so as not to take up too much space....

Not to be picky, but I don't see how this style would fit in with the Continuum Concept. It seems to me that Yequena children are A) playing with other children, or B) participating in adult tasks.

Although ds does want me to play with him (and of course I do, here and there), I really try to emphasize the daily tasks that "must" be done. (by me, and him if he wants to help) Our play together mostly consists of physical play, or singing (which is a wonderful way to include dc while working), or doing art together. Otherwise, I am doing the dishes, laundry, cleaning, or whatever, and he is always welcome to participate, no matter how messy or time-consuming it might get. And all of these things can be playful and enjoyable if done with that spirit. I don't want to teach ds that work is drudgery.
I do make sure that he has a few hours every day with some kids,and other adults, somewhere, either at the park or playgroup, or the kids I babysit.( Ideally he would have siblings, but dp isn't on board with that)

This is how I have viewed the CC "ideal", myself.
I'm curious to know what you all think of that, because it seems that a lot of us have very different interpretations.
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 07:10 AM 04-12-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
This is how I have viewed the CC "ideal", myself.
I'm curious to know what you all think of that, because it seems that a lot of us have very different interpretations.
First, I think it's awesome that you are living the CC ideal! Secondly, it sounds to me very CC-like.

I think the difference between your day-to-day living and mine (and others that struggle with this) could be as basic as our, the mamas, thoughts and feelings. For example, sometimes I think, "This is so hard. She's making things so hard for me and for us. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm afraid I'm going to be, or already am, just like my mom. Dd1 is so disappointed in me."

Those sorts of things, of course, aren't what I'd consider healthy (let alone, CC-like). And certainly they bring more of the same via the law of attraction. Since all children cooperate, this is what dd1 is cooperating with. Children meet our expectations.

I can tap into healthy thinking here and there; and I think I've posted some of it already.

So, zansmama, I'm wondering what thoughts you have during your day. And I'm wondering if you agree with what I said above (the difference in our day-to-days being our thoughts/feelings), more to add, etc.
EnviroBecca's Avatar EnviroBecca 05:48 PM 04-12-2007
AmyMN, have you ever read Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy? It's a book about how the things you say to yourself in your mind can get you down, and how to train yourself to think more constructively. You seem pretty aware of this issue already, but you might find some good tips for changing your thoughts.

Butterflymom, does your son find it entertaining to watch you doing "useful" things, or only drawing and playing? Have you tried narrating what you are doing as you work around the house and making it sound really exciting? I've found that narrating can get my son enthusiastic about watching or helping me do something that, if I am not engaging his interest in it but taking an attitude of resisting him so that I can get my work done, is boring him to tears!
zansmama's Avatar zansmama 09:23 PM 04-12-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyMN View Post
First, I think it's awesome that you are living the CC ideal! Secondly, it sounds to me very CC-like.

I think the difference between your day-to-day living and mine (and others that struggle with this) could be as basic as our, the mamas, thoughts and feelings. For example, sometimes I think, "This is so hard. She's making things so hard for me and for us. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm afraid I'm going to be, or already am, just like my mom. Dd1 is so disappointed in me."

Those sorts of things, of course, aren't what I'd consider healthy (let alone, CC-like). And certainly they bring more of the same via the law of attraction. Since all children cooperate, this is what dd1 is cooperating with. Children meet our expectations.

I can tap into healthy thinking here and there; and I think I've posted some of it already.

So, zansmama, I'm wondering what thoughts you have during your day. And I'm wondering if you agree with what I said above (the difference in our day-to-days being our thoughts/feelings), more to add, etc.


Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I guess I don't have that fear of being like my mom (yet_ wait 'til I have a teen-aged daughter), I admire her skills with small children.
Also, I was lucky enough to grow up in a homeschooling family where the babies were worn and nursed through toddlerhood, so my continuum sense in that way was intact. My parents were however very authoritarian, and intensely religious, so I definitely don't emulate them in every way!
I guess I do have thoughts here and there like:" Loosen up. Ds doesn't have to do this just because you said so. He has the right to know the reason, and his argument may be valid."
So I guess my work is to loosen up, which I have in many ways...

Thoughts that I have during the day...
Usually a lot of " I don't want to: clean the house/wash the dishes/grocery shop, I'd rather just: play with ds/read a book/ hang out/ listen to music/ go see a friend"
Sometimes thoughts like: "I wish ds had his own tribe to hang out with 24/7, he plays alone so much."

And definitely " I'm so sick of dp hanging out all the time. He sure messes up the rhythmn of our day" and "Does he have to listen to that (&^% music ALL the $#@ time: ??"
but I'm pretty sure you weren't talking about dp


Oh wait, positive thoughts too, like: "Wow, this great, ds has been playing with his bow and arrow outside naked with his friends for over an hour. Ain't he a little savage!"
Or: "I love to do the laundry now. Doing it with ds is so much fun, and he's learning resposibility, too."
Also, "I love having a community that satisfies me and ds at the same time."( anyone that doesn't have a playgroup, try one out!!)

By the way, ds has gotten through that angry phase. thank god it was so short! Turned out he was worrying about weaning. (he had overheard some conversations) I told him that he will have nana as long as he needs to, and that took care of that!
root*children's Avatar root*children 09:28 PM 04-12-2007
Hey y'all! Hardly ever make it over to FYT and just saw this thread. Seems like there was one a year or so ago, that didn't go anywhere. Anyhow, just wanted to join in

I first read CC when preggo with DS1, 7 years ago, and we've been living it since. I do run a daycare in my home, which brings up certain issues. But fortunatly we live in a crunchy enough town that I can thrive in business with moms who are good with the CC ideas. My oldest is about to be 7 and is unschooled, and has pretty much found his groove. He's not really needing attention (he did go through a phase at about 5years that he seemed to need it alot), and finds good comradery in his little brother and the daycare kiddos (one of whom is also a 6yo boy).

Anyhow, I live in a neighborhood with several families of similar aged children, but none that we really hang out with. Most are schooled, or there clothes are too nice to play outside, etc. So, just because there's families around, doesn't mean instant community, unfortunatly. My DH grew up in a big community with lots of kids and really wishes that for our kids... one day perhaps!

Good to know y'all are here!

WuWei - are you the mama doing Explore & Discover?
WuWei's Avatar WuWei 10:24 PM 04-12-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by root*children View Post

WuWei - are you the mama doing Explore & Discover?
Yes. Are you local?
I see you are in Asheville!

Pat
root*children's Avatar root*children 01:41 AM 04-13-2007
Yup, I'm in Asheville... I get your emails from the yahoo group, but nothing's close to me, so we haven't got to join y'all Oh well. I started a yahoo group here for unschoolers about a year ago, basically for my need to go explore the area with other families and for comradery (sp?), but lots of other families here had approached me about starting somethign to unite unschoolers. But I'm finding it a pretty frustrating group because everyone's *too* unschooly or something, nobody will commit to ANYTHING! The phrase "herding cats" comes to mind. Oh well... it's a work in progress!

Sorry for the hijack! Always cool when I recognize someone at MDC from somewhere else in life
WuWei's Avatar WuWei 11:57 AM 04-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by root*children View Post

Sorry for the hijack! Always cool when I recognize someone at MDC from somewhere else in life
You mean all these posts on MDC are from Real People?!:

Yes, it is like herding cats. Have you been on The Secret thread? There are several unschooling mamas looking to move to Asheville and they are such positive energy and they want to connect and create community. Captain Crunchy and KateSt. You can see around post #584 of this thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ghlight=stacey

They are wanting to manifest your unschooling group and you've already created it.


Pat
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 12:33 PM 04-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I guess I don't have that fear of being like my mom (yet_ wait 'til I have a teen-aged daughter), I admire her skills with small children.
Also, I was lucky enough to grow up in a homeschooling family where the babies were worn and nursed through toddlerhood, so my continuum sense in that way was intact.
It looks like this is the difference right here: it could be my *fear* of screwing up, as well as having virtually no one with experience to model myself after (except books). [Interesting, whenever I thought of the possiblity of having kids--I never planned to have any eariler in life--I thought the teen years would be the most fun for me. ]

Also, your son has neighbor kids, right?

P.S. This is from the book Giving The Love That Heals: "You know you are face-to-face with the unfinished business of your own childhood when you respond with strong negative feelings to your child's behavior." (Hendrix and Hunt, 1997)
zansmama's Avatar zansmama 12:48 AM 04-14-2007
[QUOTE=AmyMN;7834947]

Also, your son has neighbor kids, right?

QUOTE]

Arrggh, no, I wish! Our elderly neighbor has great-grandkids that visit once a week, but other than that I've really had to work to create a community. Especially since, where we live, it seems like almost all the kids are in school by 3 years old.
Ds just turned 4, and we're already losing half of the playgroup to preschool next year.
AmyMN's Avatar AmyMN 12:52 AM 04-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
Our elderly neighbor has great-grandkids that visit once a week...
That sounds great. We know lots of like-minded families within about 10 miles from us. But just not in the neighborhood. I really want families in our neighborhood.
JohnnysGirl's Avatar JohnnysGirl 06:13 AM 04-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
... I've abbreviated so as not to take up too much space....

Not to be picky, but I don't see how this style would fit in with the Continuum Concept. It seems to me that Yequena children are A) playing with other children, or B) participating in adult tasks.
...

This is how I have viewed the CC "ideal", myself.
I'm curious to know what you all think of that, because it seems that a lot of us have very different interpretations.
I would love for my sons to be playing with other children all the time. I live in a small city apartment in a foreign country and the couple of other mommy friends I know I try to see nearly everyday as an informal playgroup, and every day I do take them to the playgrounds in the city where they can meet other kids. Of course this has to be supervised/structured time since it's in a city center and my older son gets so bored there because the kids are too young to entertain him, since children over the age of 2 in Finland are all in full time daycare, by and large....then he starts harassing the toddlers to get some reaction from the people around him. I do invite both kids to listen to descriptions of what I'm doing around the house when I'm 'working' around the house, and to participate in adult tasks. Still it just 'feels' to me like so much of the day is spent requesting entertainment...probably because I'm not a very thorough housekeeper by nature, that I don't spend more of our energies through the day keeping the house super clean and make sure the laundry never piles up, etc.... The reason I feel so drawn to CC philosophies is because I so WANT a tribe where there are OTHER ADULTS that my children can connect with and learn from throughout the day, and OTHER CHILDREN that they are with basically whenever they want, in a free environment (village type). We are working to create a little planned neighborhood with families with the same values as ours, but it's not a reality yet, and living in a cramped apartment in the city without regular access to others just leads to a cramped feeling for super-social DS1 and me. My younger son is just happy-go-lucky no matter what. We are moving next month to a row-house neighborhood on a lake in the forest, where there will be other children, and I'll simply have the space indoors and out to create fun all-day gatherings with all my friends & their kids (instead of just having brief meetings in city playgrounds and having to cut it short as soon as someone's kid is needing a nap or a meal or whatever) where the mamas can all be cooking and lending a hand with each others' children, and the kids can all be playing indoors and out and have more freedom, and if someone needs a nap there are 3 levels in our home with spots to nap on the uppermost and lowermost floors, so there's always a place to put a tired child where they can nap in peace. And of course I hope immediate neighbors in this new place will have kids that will enjoy being friends with mine. I hope my life takes a turn towards a more open/free CC rhythm in our new place, and I plan to work on my thoughts/attitudes also. And I think we will get an au pair so my kids can pick up another language and have another engage-able adult around all the time (and to offer a lovely opportunity for a girl who really wants the experience). I wish my husband and his family were more a part of our daily lives, but my workaholic DH and his isolationist relatives in town are not a fixture in our lives.
zansmama's Avatar zansmama 02:52 PM 04-14-2007
Oh, Butterflymom, that sounds like it will be so beautiful! I wish we could work out something like that.
Hey, believe me, I know how hard it is to connect with like-minded families. At this point we only have one, maybe two that are really CC types.

I guess I was just mainly checking in: I know that I hold the Continuum Concept as an ideal, however much I may not be living it perfectly every day, but I wasn't sure if some of you had different views of what exactly that ideal is... Godd to see we're mainly all on the same page!
kxsiven's Avatar kxsiven 04:07 PM 04-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflymom View Post
Of course this has to be supervised/structured time since it's in a city center and my older son gets so bored there because the kids are too young to entertain him, since children over the age of 2 in Finland are all in full time daycare, by and large
Hi! Are you talking about 'avoin päiväkoti'? In case not ... I don't know where you live in Finland but in my hometown this system works quite nicely and there are lots of older kids too - all the way to 5/6 years olds. This system should be available in every town here.
Also MLL(Mannerheimin lastensuojeluliitto)has so called Family Coffeehouses around Finland - over 300 if I remember right - chance to meet other parents and also there is all kinds of activities for kids. They might also know hot tips where to meet other parents and kids.
JohnnysGirl's Avatar JohnnysGirl 10:56 AM 04-15-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kxsiven View Post
Hi! Are you talking about 'avoin päiväkoti'? In case not ... I don't know where you live in Finland but in my hometown this system works quite nicely and there are lots of older kids too - all the way to 5/6 years olds. This system should be available in every town here.
Also MLL(Mannerheimin lastensuojeluliitto)has so called Family Coffeehouses around Finland - over 300 if I remember right - chance to meet other parents and also there is all kinds of activities for kids. They might also know hot tips where to meet other parents and kids.
Hello there! I'm in Tampere, where are you? I am talking about daycare which is called "päiväkoti" here in Finland, although I've never heard the term 'avoin päiväkoti' (I guess that translates to "key day-home" which doesn't make sense to me) before here in Tampere. Is it different than the regular daycare centers? I'm guessing it's a place where mothers can come WITH their children and they all have their own keys to come and go as they please and it's simply a physical space? That *Would* be great, but nothing like that exists in Tampere, as far as I know. Yes, all the 3,4,5, and some 6 year olds I know of are all there at these päiväkoti/daycares, all day, since school doesn't start until the year the child is to turn 7. We usually hang around playgrounds near a large daycare so that we can socialize with those groups of older children. However, my son is at an inbetween age where he's not really terribly interesting to the 4-5-6 year olds, when he does work up the courage to introduce himself (they have their little daycare cliques and aren't looking for newbie random boys to play with, seems like), and the younger children bore him. It's kinda sad to watch...but at least he has one friend that he's had since birth, his age, that he adores and gets to see regularly, but even he is in all-day daycare 3 days a week so we don't see him as much as we'd like. I'm also aware of MLL, but those family cafes are once a week for a few hours and it's such a small window of opportunity that we rarely make it there, and it's not happening in these summer months that are approaching, AND when I've been there it's again, all babies and toddlers, and after the age of 2 kids I know of get put into daycare.
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