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#721 of 1095 Old 08-22-2007, 08:08 PM
 
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I tend to think that children are more calm being outside than they are inside- and the Yequana were already closer to the continuum living their lives outside.
What you described about your ds interupting your conversation is exactly what my 3 y.o. dd does! It does drive us batty, but I realize that my dd needs to have time to talk and interact with daddy since he is gone all day. The yequana children also spend many hours with their parents helping them out with chores. Maybe there are more things that he can help out with? It seems that he is frustrated with not being able to 'play' but maybe what he really needs is some 'jobs' to 'help' out with. Because at this age, helping is just as fun as playing. '\ My 3 year old loves to help empty her own dishes from the dishwasher into her own drawer, she loves to 'take out the trash' with daddy, which basically means helping him push the rolling trash can out to the curb. She likes to help cook breakfast when I give her a whisk and I let her crack and stir her own eggs. I think 2 1/2 up they can start to do basic things to help out the family. It gives them pride and more of a sense of purpose.

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#722 of 1095 Old 08-23-2007, 02:29 PM
 
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It sounds to me like you are expecting your 2 yr old to behave like a rational adult. Toddlers test our boundaries. They want to know what is going to happen if they do 'x'. How else will they know that we love them unconditionally? They are figuring out absolutely everything, absorbing the world and their brains and emotions are going through crazy amounts of development. I'm sorry to say, I do think that is completely normal toddler behavior.
Oh, I know it's completely normal WESTERN toddler behavior! The reason I'm asking here rather than in GD is that I was hoping for a CC perspective and some ideas for guiding my child to a more Yequana way of being a toddler. (I'm going to have to reread the sections of the book that talk about toddlers...my partner was reading it and misplaced it, but he's certain it's still in the house...)

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If my daughter screamed at her dad that she didn't like him and to go away, he would most likely say, "wow you are so angry right now! I'm sad to hear you don't like me, I'll leave give you some space because I LOVE YOU."
This is more the type of response I would like EnviroDaddy to give. He says that in the moment, he often feels so shocked and hurt that he can't think straight. I know the feeling but I think that "letting" a little child wound him like that puts quite a burden on BOTH OF THEM. He is letting fear take over so that he can't find room for love.

I haven't read Playful Parenting either, but there was an interesting discussion in GD a while back about whether those ideas harmonize or conflict with CC. I think playfulness has a role for people of any age, so that can be CC. This morning, when EnviroKid was balking at getting dressed, EnviroDaddy got him cheerful and cooperative again by saying things like, "Woogly goo! Googly woo!" while lightly tickling him and then sort of working the clothes into the process. "Daddy! Say those silly words again!" So sometimes he gets things right.

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I tend to think that children are more calm being outside than they are inside
Interesting. How would that apply to this particular situation? Would I stop breakfast and take my kid outside?

He does like to play outside. He gets a chance when we're walking to and waiting for our busses each day and on the playground at childcare. Most evenings, either he plays on the sidewalk with the neighbor kids or we take him to a playground. Not very continuum-correct, in that all these places are partially paved and he's never unsupervised, but we live in the city and this is what we can do. (We've started to let him stay on the sidewalk for a few minutes while the supervising parent runs inside to get something, and that's worked out fine, so by next summer we may be comfortable letting him out to play without us for longer stretches.)

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The yequana children also spend many hours with their parents helping them out with chores. Maybe there are more things that he can help out with? It seems that he is frustrated with not being able to 'play' but maybe what he really needs is some 'jobs' to 'help' out with.
He does have some jobs. He's been helping wash dishes and do laundry since he was 16 months old. Now he also puts ingredients into pots, stirs things that are cooking, holds the dustpan while Daddy sweeps, and helps with other jobs when they're not too hazardous. (He can use a wire-stripper!)

But at breakfast time, he usually doesn't have a job. Most of the things he likes to eat for breakfast are prepared mainly by pouring them out of containers (cereal, etc.), and my experience with asking him to pour things is that about 10% of the time he'll spill them egregiously (lengthy cleanup, significant waste), 85% of the time he'll refuse to try because he judges the container to be "too big" for him to handle, and only 5% are successful...so I hesitate to ask unless it's something very manageable. I'll think about whether there's some other way he could "work" first thing in the morning....

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#723 of 1095 Old 08-29-2007, 03:01 PM
 
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AmyMN, I tried sending you a PM but your inbox is full. Is it possible for you to clear up your inbox as I wanted to ask you a question off boards. Thanks
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#724 of 1095 Old 09-09-2007, 03:27 AM
 
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EnviroBecca, I'm a little late to this discussion, but I'm struggling with very similar issues with my 2 1/2 year old recently, and I've had similar thoughts about "western" toddler behavior. DH and I *think* we are able to narrow down what's bothering her though, because we can track what has changed for her in the last month. We just moved from a pretty quiet, calm city in Europe to a large, busy, chaotic U.S. city, and it has REALLY thrown her off. We used to live on a quiet, car-free street, we rode our bikes everywhere and there was little traffic relative to the U.S., there were lots of quiet, green spaces near our house, etc. She spent most of her day outdoors (in open spaces, not in structured play areas), and the rest of the time doing chores with me. It was still a pretty big city, but it was a city that felt more in tune with many of the CC ideals.

We've tried our best to re-create that life here in the U.S.--we didn't buy a car, we try to ride our bikes or the bus everywhere, we moved into a cohousing place that has a large, natural common space for kids (well, and adults too). But it's just generally louder in U.S. cities (large and small), there's more chaos, things are spread out and it takes much longer to get places, there are more activities here, life is more fast-paced, we're in more of a hurry.

And my DD is incredibly "off" here. It could just be the move, but I really don't think it is (she was doing better when we were with my parents for a week in a fairly rural area with a very relaxed pace). I would probably sound nuts to my family or friends if I said this, but I really think the CC-type of life made her very comfortable and she's now letting us know that this American lifestyle isn't right. Even if one doesn't live in a big city, we find it just SOOO much louder and chaotic here--the tv's and radios at home and in the car, the music and noise in stores, the going everywhere by car, the freeways, etc. Really, just being in the car is a big shock to the system--we've been car-free for 3 years, and being back has made me realize how jarring spending time in a car is.

Anyway, we've been experimenting with ideas.

- You mentioned moving breakfast outside--that's actually one of the things we've been trying! We have an open space and gardens behind our house, and we make a point to eat a meal out there on a blanket at least once a day and it does seem to calm her (even though we can still hear the traffic). We also spend a lot of time in the open space at other times during the day.

- Like others have mentioned, we've been trying to add even more responsibilities (I hate to use the word chores, maybe because it doesn't get at the potential social nature of the work) and that has been helpful--she helps with the cooking (but I think I could take that further and get her a real knife that's her size), she's pretty good at washing dishes by hand with either DH or me, she likes to have a squirt bottle (with just vinegar and water) and sponge and scrub the bathroom and kitchen with me. We have a group work-day at our cohousing, and we're probably the only ones who look forward to it (for the benefit to DD). But, I know DH and I can take it further--we're going to borrow a grain mill for her to grind wheat berries, we're going to try to make bread with her as often as we can, I'm starting a business from home (very part time) and I plan to have her help me with it. I know there could be more though.

- We're trying to cut down on our activities. I mean, the Yequana didn't get dragged across town to playgroups, they didn't drive to the park, they didn't drive to the grocery store (yes, I picked my house solely because I can bike to the grocery store), they didn't cram in a ton of activities on the weekend. We've noticed that we've already picked up our pace since we've been back in the U.S.--there's just more happening here, and it's so tempting to jump in. But, we've noticed that she's just a mess by the end of the day--I can't even blame it on being hungry or tired--it just seems like it's the pace.

I'm sorry this is such a novel! But, I wonder if others might have noticed these kinds of effects on their children. I don't consider my DD to be a sensitive kid--she just seems overwhelmed by what I imagine most American children are exposed to every day.
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#725 of 1095 Old 09-09-2007, 12:18 PM
 
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How do you balance the classes and a slower pace? I'm working on that one right now...we homeschool (for now) and dd is in ballet (after 2 years of requests), violin (continuing from last year, now we all make music together as a family), gymnastics with a best friend who we do many cc like things with. We also volunteer at our community garden that supplys our food bank. All of these things feed us, but they also wear us out. I feel our activities feed us, and sometimes I get "full."
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#726 of 1095 Old 09-09-2007, 12:27 PM
 
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Was anyone here on Scott Noelle's conference call yesterday? It was really great, inspiring.
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#727 of 1095 Old 09-09-2007, 01:03 PM
 
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nak- for things that adults pour, like cereal or cat food, little kids can use a small scoop. dd scoops the cat food and oats, etc. and doesn't mind scooping 10 times.
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#728 of 1095 Old 09-09-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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How do you balance the classes and a slower pace? I'm working on that one right now...we homeschool (for now) and dd is in ballet (after 2 years of requests), violin (continuing from last year, now we all make music together as a family), gymnastics with a best friend who we do many cc like things with. We also volunteer at our community garden that supplys our food bank. All of these things feed us, but they also wear us out. I feel our activities feed us, and sometimes I get "full."
Yeah, that's the kind of thing we're struggling with. For us, it's helped a bit to not do more than one non-CC sort of thing each day. For example, if I feel like we "need" to go to playgroup then I don't drag her to the grocery store and the post office on that same day. Instead, we go to playgroup and then spend the rest of the day at home, working, cleaning, baking, exploring outside and recovering.

But, we've also just cut out much of the activities that we previously "had" to do. I know that's not for every family though.
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#729 of 1095 Old 09-10-2007, 11:55 AM
 
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Was anyone here on Scott Noelle's conference call yesterday? It was really great, inspiring.
I wanted to, but Saturday was very full for us. I have been thinking about trying out a phone session, mainly about enjoying my role as stay-at-home mom without striving for something else.
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#730 of 1095 Old 09-10-2007, 12:59 PM
 
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I wanted to, but Saturday was very full for us. I have been thinking about trying out a phone session, mainly about enjoying my role as stay-at-home mom without striving for something else.
Hi, I highly recommend coaching with Scott. I think in talking to Scott you'd remember that you can strive for what you want all the while being a SAHM. Rather than experiencing "Lack" in your life, you can experience abundance. And I've been in both places, so I know exactly what you're talking about.
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#731 of 1095 Old 09-11-2007, 03:54 PM
 
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We're trying to cut down on our activities. I mean, the Yequana didn't get dragged across town to playgroups, they didn't drive to the park, they didn't drive to the grocery store (yes, I picked my house solely because I can bike to the grocery store), they didn't cram in a ton of activities on the weekend.
True, in a sense: They didn't do many "leisure" activities or things that had to happen at specific times. But it sounds to me like they DID have a lot going on all the time, just because their daily tasks were so labor-intensive. Liedloff's descriptions of Yequana life include a lot of expeditions for hunting, harvesting, laundry, and bathing; the distance might be shorter, but I bet the time spent in transit was at least as much. Large portions of time at home were filled with activity: food preparation, weaving, home repairs, tool-making, etc.

So I don't worry much about a fast pace of errands and household tasks. We tend to spend Saturdays zipping around to the post office, library, stores, etc., but brunch at the diner and some time at the playground get worked in there too so that we have leisure times between errands. This is greatly facilitated by our living in a neighborhood where all these destinations are within one mile and all streets have sidewalks!

At home, we resist feeling guilty about getting our child involved in our chores instead of playing with him. Although he often requests play and gets annoyed when we say we need to work on things, once he gets involved in the work he has just as much fun as he does playing!

Speaking of which, last night EnviroKid made a big leap forward in dish-washing! He's been helping (for over a year now) by putting dishes into the soapy water and sloshing them around to loosen the food, but primarily he's been doing it to play with the physics of water while I do all the actual washing. A few months ago he began cleaning the sink before we start, but I'd always have to clean it after he did because he was so haphazard. Well, last night he thoroughly cleaned and rinsed the sink exactly as I would, put in the dishes, played for about two minutes...then picked up his dishcloth and the same kind of bowl I was washing, washed his with exactly the same movements, and placed it in the rinse sink. It was perfectly clean. I picked up a juice glass, he picked up a juice glass, and we washed them the same way. Suddenly the dishes were getting washed at double speed as we worked together!!! The only ones he wasn't getting clean were the spoons; he wasn't rubbing hard enough to remove the film left by yogurt, etc. I pointed this out and explained how to do it right, and he made a brief attempt, but then he started putting each utensil into my hand instead of the rinse sink when he was finished with it, and I thought, "Okay, he's reached his limit for now." Still, this is huge progress! I felt like I was working with a much older person all of a sudden. He is 2 years 8 months.

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For us, it's helped a bit to not do more than one non-CC sort of thing each day. For example, if I feel like we "need" to go to playgroup then I don't drag her to the grocery store and the post office on that same day. Instead, we go to playgroup and then spend the rest of the day at home, working, cleaning, baking, exploring outside and recovering.
What makes at-home working, cleaning, and baking CC but grocery store and post office non-CC? When Yequana toddlers follow their mothers to gather fruit from the jungle (their form of grocery shopping) that's not a "drag"; it's an adventure with the tribe.

EnviroKid loves to go grocery shopping. I used to avoid taking him because it seemed more difficult than going alone and because I tend to go late at night to avoid the crowds...but I've found that when I take him, even though it means a late start to his bedtime routine, he still goes to sleep at about the same time because the shopping trip gives him a sense of satisfaction and contentment that helps him unwind faster during bedtime stories.

Our tantrum situation is better again. I guess EnviroKid and/or EnviroDaddy was just going through a tough stage.

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#732 of 1095 Old 09-11-2007, 07:15 PM
 
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It can be so hard with little ones sometimes!
One thing on the constant talking and interrupting: I feel like our kids need to talk constantly... but not with adults. Remember, the Yequena kids spent most of their time with a crew of kids, and conversations with adults were mostly"hand me that", or "feed the baby". So we try to get ds with other kids as much as possible for playing and conversations. He really does seem to be a lot more settled and less interruptive (is that a word?) when he's getting lots of "kid time".(by lots, I mean at least a few hours a day, preferably with mama also getting some "adult conversation time")

Saying "I don't like you"... I feel like this should be a basic human right. We don't always like each other all the time. I've responded to ds's assertion of this in a variety of ways. Sometimes I say, "I don't really like you right now either" (emphasis on the right now). Sometimes I say, "I'm sorry that you're feeling so angry right now.", or "well I like you". The important thing to me is that we be honest with each other, and keep the lines of communication open.
One thing that often works when he's feeling this disconnected sort of angry feeling is for me to stop whatever I'm doing, sit down on the floor with him, and say something like: " Hey, I don't like feeling mad at you, and I'm sure you don't like feeling mad at me.It just doesn't feel very good, does it?" (this usually get a "no")" How about we be friends again, and be nice to each other? It feels so much nicer than being angry and mean." Now, ds is 4, so this approach may be a little too intellectual for 2 1/2yo... but for us it always works like a charm. Just being open, honest, and treating him as an equal.
Speaking of equal, you guys could try taking turns with the talking. Daddy's turn, ds's turn, etc...
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#733 of 1095 Old 09-11-2007, 10:03 PM
 
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Yeah, that's the kind of thing we're struggling with. For us, it's helped a bit to not do more than one non-CC sort of thing each day. For example, if I feel like we "need" to go to playgroup then I don't drag her to the grocery store and the post office on that same day. Instead, we go to playgroup and then spend the rest of the day at home, working, cleaning, baking, exploring outside and recovering.

But, we've also just cut out much of the activities that we previously "had" to do. I know that's not for every family though.
I like the idea of cutting back... but to me, playgroup is one of the most CC things that we do...
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#734 of 1095 Old 09-12-2007, 12:16 AM
 
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True, in a sense: They didn't do many "leisure" activities or things that had to happen at specific times. But it sounds to me like they DID have a lot going on all the time, just because their daily tasks were so labor-intensive. Liedloff's descriptions of Yequana life include a lot of expeditions for hunting, harvesting, laundry, and bathing; the distance might be shorter, but I bet the time spent in transit was at least as much. Large portions of time at home were filled with activity: food preparation, weaving, home repairs, tool-making, etc.

So I don't worry much about a fast pace of errands and household tasks. We tend to spend Saturdays zipping around to the post office, library, stores, etc., but brunch at the diner and some time at the playground get worked in there too so that we have leisure times between errands. This is greatly facilitated by our living in a neighborhood where all these destinations are within one mile and all streets have sidewalks!

At home, we resist feeling guilty about getting our child involved in our chores instead of playing with him. Although he often requests play and gets annoyed when we say we need to work on things, once he gets involved in the work he has just as much fun as he does playing!

Speaking of which, last night EnviroKid made a big leap forward in dish-washing! He's been helping (for over a year now) by putting dishes into the soapy water and sloshing them around to loosen the food, but primarily he's been doing it to play with the physics of water while I do all the actual washing. A few months ago he began cleaning the sink before we start, but I'd always have to clean it after he did because he was so haphazard. Well, last night he thoroughly cleaned and rinsed the sink exactly as I would, put in the dishes, played for about two minutes...then picked up his dishcloth and the same kind of bowl I was washing, washed his with exactly the same movements, and placed it in the rinse sink. It was perfectly clean. I picked up a juice glass, he picked up a juice glass, and we washed them the same way. Suddenly the dishes were getting washed at double speed as we worked together!!! The only ones he wasn't getting clean were the spoons; he wasn't rubbing hard enough to remove the film left by yogurt, etc. I pointed this out and explained how to do it right, and he made a brief attempt, but then he started putting each utensil into my hand instead of the rinse sink when he was finished with it, and I thought, "Okay, he's reached his limit for now." Still, this is huge progress! I felt like I was working with a much older person all of a sudden. He is 2 years 8 months.



What makes at-home working, cleaning, and baking CC but grocery store and post office non-CC? When Yequana toddlers follow their mothers to gather fruit from the jungle (their form of grocery shopping) that's not a "drag"; it's an adventure with the tribe.

EnviroKid loves to go grocery shopping. I used to avoid taking him because it seemed more difficult than going alone and because I tend to go late at night to avoid the crowds...but I've found that when I take him, even though it means a late start to his bedtime routine, he still goes to sleep at about the same time because the shopping trip gives him a sense of satisfaction and contentment that helps him unwind faster during bedtime stories.

Our tantrum situation is better again. I guess EnviroKid and/or EnviroDaddy was just going through a tough stage.

I agree with you about the activity. But for us, it's the noise, the cars, the music, tv, etc. that feels off. For example, a walk to a store in a mellow city or town is remarkably different than driving in a car to do multiple errands. Just being outdoors makes a tremendous difference, and the pace is naturally slower. I've lived in Kenya, Malawi, Ghana and the Netherlands, and I've never seen anything like the pace and noise in the U.S.

Anyway, it was just an idea of what may be bothering our young children. Glad that your situation resolved itself!
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#735 of 1095 Old 09-12-2007, 05:47 PM
 
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Remember, the Yequena kids spent most of their time with a crew of kids, and conversations with adults were mostly"hand me that", or "feed the baby". So we try to get ds with other kids as much as possible for playing and conversations. He really does seem to be a lot more settled and less interruptive (is that a word?) when he's getting lots of "kid time".(by lots, I mean at least a few hours a day, preferably with mama also getting some "adult conversation time")
My son goes to childcare, where he spends 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, in a group of 5-20 kids 2-4 years old. He does play and converse with them quite a bit, but his teachers tell me that he talks to them (teachers) more than the other kids do. I think that's fine; when I was a kid, I often found adults more interesting than my peers. However, I do think it's important to spend time with other kids so one doesn't feel like the only small, less-competent person around! EnviroKid finds other kids very interesting and has loved being around them since he was just a few weeks old.

While Liedloff does talk about the kids running around together and not doing a lot of TALKING with adults, she also mentions kids (even very young ones) being involved in adult work. I like the idea that usefulness is for everyone and there's no point at which children who play turn into adults who work. So I'm leery of separating "adult time" and "kid time" very much. Not saying that's what you were aiming for, Zansmama...just that I think it's important to be cautious about artificial dichotomies of adult and child.

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#736 of 1095 Old 09-12-2007, 08:44 PM
 
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My son goes to childcare, where he spends 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, in a group of 5-20 kids 2-4 years old. He does play and converse with them quite a bit, but his teachers tell me that he talks to them (teachers) more than the other kids do. I think that's fine; when I was a kid, I often found adults more interesting than my peers. However, I do think it's important to spend time with other kids so one doesn't feel like the only small, less-competent person around! EnviroKid finds other kids very interesting and has loved being around them since he was just a few weeks old.

While Liedloff does talk about the kids running around together and not doing a lot of TALKING with adults, she also mentions kids (even very young ones) being involved in adult work. I like the idea that usefulness is for everyone and there's no point at which children who play turn into adults who work. So I'm leery of separating "adult time" and "kid time" very much. Not saying that's what you were aiming for, Zansmama...just that I think it's important to be cautious about artificial dichotomies of adult and child.
Wow, sounds like EnviroKid is around kids a lot more than ds. cool.

Yeah, what I mean by the distinction between kid &adult is that we tend to sit in a group of mamas, talking, sewing, snacking, and whatever, with the kids wandering in and out of our circle, but mostly running around in a loosely affiliated group: climbing trees, throwing rocks, wrestling, wading in the creek, or whatever. We interfere with their activities as little as possible, and we encourage them to come to where we are if they need us.
Now, at home, and whenever there is some sort of work to be done, I totally include ds in everything...
I'm recently becoming more aware however, that compelling him to do something is not CC. The problem is that dh is a pretty lazy fellow at times who would rather sit on the couch and watch TV than help with dinner. If ds follows his continuum sense and patterns on his father, he will prefer laziness to work as well (again, at times).
I have given him a "job" of clearing the table after dinner, but I'm not sure how this fits into the continuum... sometimes he does it without being asked, and takes great pride in doing so, but sometimes when I'm chasing him around to get him to do his job, I feel like it's not very CC. But if I do it after I've asked him to, I feel like that undermines the parental/ adult authority that seems so unquestioned, though perhaps unspoken, in the Yequena community.

Anyone?
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#737 of 1095 Old 09-12-2007, 10:11 PM
 
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I agree with you about the activity. But for us, it's the noise, the cars, the music, tv, etc. that feels off. For example, a walk to a store in a mellow city or town is remarkably different than driving in a car to do multiple errands. Just being outdoors makes a tremendous difference, and the pace is naturally slower. I've lived in Kenya, Malawi, Ghana and the Netherlands, and I've never seen anything like the pace and noise in the U.S.
Yes, yes, yes. I feel like cars are SO out of the continuum. I can see that depending on where you live, they may be necessary, but I feel so lucky to live in an area where we can bike and walk wherever we need to go.
The pace does make a huge difference, as does the ability to really see and experience the surroundings, and say hi to neighbors, or meet new people. Plus, ds can use his own two legs, or bike, or whatever, unlike a car.

I do see the fastpaced, hectic lifestyle as wreaking havock with our little ones. We've tried to slow down as much as possible, even turning down fun invitations if it makes our day too crowded.
It's sort of like a rhythm, a constant rhythm. If it's a comfortable, liveable pace, perfect. But if it's too fast for stopping to pick a flower, or to chase a squirrel, maybe it's too fast. And if certain things speed up that rhythm, not good. When this happens, it throws ds off for a while.
One day for laundry, one day for baking, one day for cleaning, one day for shopping. These sort of weekly rhythms really help me keep it simple. Once that laundry's done, we can read on the couch for hours! And ds knows the routine, so he's comfortable and agreeable within it.
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#738 of 1095 Old 09-13-2007, 06:45 PM
 
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I feel like cars are SO out of the continuum.
Even pre-kid, I felt that whenever I was in a car with another person: Either you are dragging someone else along with you, or you are being dragged; being a passenger is comfortable and effortless, but you have zero control over where you are going. A baby in arms (or sling) also has no control, but he's involved in the rhythm of walking and has the same point of view as the walker. Driving while my kid rides in his carseat feels strange and wrong to me. Riding the bus, OTOH, may get us places unnaturally fast, but at least we're together and can interact normally.

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#739 of 1095 Old 09-13-2007, 11:43 PM
 
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I like the idea of cutting back... but to me, playgroup is one of the most CC things that we do...
Hmm, I've always thought of playgroups as rather un-CC--the ones I've been to have generally been children of about the same age (e.g. 2-3 year olds, plus a baby here and there) rather than the mixed-age groups that I've seen spontaneously arise in non-western cultures (or in the image of an old-fashioned American neighborhood where kids of all ages gather outside to play in the afternoon or after dinner). I've just moved into a new community, and my 2 1/2 year old follows the 6 year olds and the 9 year old everywhere--I've always wished a I could find a playgroup like that!

It's also always felt un-CC to me to have the moms and dads just sitting and talking while the kids play, as is the case at playgroups or at the park. A friend of mine likes to hold "working playgroups" at her house, where the moms bring vegetables to be chopped, cooking to be done, etc. I always thought that was so smart!
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#740 of 1095 Old 09-13-2007, 11:50 PM
 
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Yes, yes, yes. I feel like cars are SO out of the continuum. I can see that depending on where you live, they may be necessary, but I feel so lucky to live in an area where we can bike and walk wherever we need to go.
The pace does make a huge difference, as does the ability to really see and experience the surroundings, and say hi to neighbors, or meet new people. Plus, ds can use his own two legs, or bike, or whatever, unlike a car.

I do see the fastpaced, hectic lifestyle as wreaking havock with our little ones. We've tried to slow down as much as possible, even turning down fun invitations if it makes our day too crowded.
It's sort of like a rhythm, a constant rhythm. If it's a comfortable, liveable pace, perfect. But if it's too fast for stopping to pick a flower, or to chase a squirrel, maybe it's too fast. And if certain things speed up that rhythm, not good. When this happens, it throws ds off for a while.
One day for laundry, one day for baking, one day for cleaning, one day for shopping. These sort of weekly rhythms really help me keep it simple. Once that laundry's done, we can read on the couch for hours! And ds knows the routine, so he's comfortable and agreeable within it.
I really like that idea--I've been slowing things down for my DD's sake lately, but I haven't added really predictable housework routines. That's probably just what we need!
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#741 of 1095 Old 09-15-2007, 02:07 PM
 
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So the table clearing thing... I've decided to take the pressure off of it's being ds's "job", ('cause I don't want work to be an unpleasant thing), and we've de-evolved it back into a co-operative effort. Working much, much better. I'm also involving ds more in dinner preparation, and so I feel like he's contributing sufficiently to where I don't feel like I'm doing all the work. Also, Dp is very open to clearing his own dish(es), so ds will be getting that good example.
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#742 of 1095 Old 09-15-2007, 08:58 PM
 
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I'm going to be a TCC-minded momma, when the time comes. I was hovered over my entire life (and still am) and constantly have fights with mom over it.

I think many of the points made in the book are very valid and applicable to today's world, and I'm excited that it's written from a Western viewpoint, even though a lot of it is at the expense of the scientific method sometimes.

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#743 of 1095 Old 09-16-2007, 03:41 PM
 
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I think many of the points made in the book are very valid and applicable to today's world, and I'm excited that it's written from a Western viewpoint, even though a lot of it is at the expense of the scientific method sometimes.
explain a little? I think I might know what you mean, but i'd like to be sure .

Welcome, btw.
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#744 of 1095 Old 09-16-2007, 09:42 PM
 
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explain a little? I think I might know what you mean, but i'd like to be sure .

Welcome, btw.
I like that it's a book that's written with the cultural assumptions of the Western world. Not that those assumptions are by any means correct, but when I read a lot of books about other cultures, it seems like the people who write them and I are on a different level in terms of cultural bias, yk? I can see her logical faults and weak points better because I understand them in myself, is I guess what I'm saying. Sometimes, I can't sort out what's what because the writer's assumptions are so far from mine (like being a cultural anthropologist, professional historian, etc.). (That was a terrible explanation, but it's as good as I can do .)

I also think that for all its faults, the book indirectly has a lot to say about living in a world full of fear. All we hear about are things that are out to get us: toys, people, educators, THE MAN, etc. I think there's something very primal to be said about giving our kids more rein to be kids - to get into things, fall off things, and make messes and so forth (within safe boundaries), as well as giving them time for inter-generational interaction, within and outside the family.

I think more interpersonal interaction (is that redundant?), less fear (or fear that controls our lives), and fewer planned events will help to counteract the frenzied pace of American life, so I guess that's what I meant by being a TCC-minded momma.

(I just re-read this and it sounds SO disjointed. Sorry. )

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#745 of 1095 Old 09-18-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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(I just re-read this and it sounds SO disjointed. Sorry. )
no, no, no, I get what you're saying. Cultural assumptions and all that. Makes sense! I guess I have a similart feeling about the book myself.
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#746 of 1095 Old 11-16-2007, 11:51 AM
 
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I am bumping this!
I havnt read through all the post...theres quite a lot! hehe
I wont make this long though hehe....im about 50/50. Its kinda hard for me to sometimes distinguish between TCC and AP if I am completly honest! A lot of what we do is both in the end though I think I did start off more TCC than AP!
When I first read the TCC - it was hard for me to see how it would 'work' in our society. There is a lot of stuff in it that I feel is not practicle for 'this day and age' simply because it is based on one tribes way of living and we are not that tribe, or a tribe...or very communal at all in our living (unfortunatly I must say!). But a lot of it makes complete sense and its those aspects of it that we practice and I will deffinatly be looking into more when we have another child (as I discovered it a bit late! )...Things like babywearing for example. I still wear my son in a sling when he wants to be held. For me this seems to be one of the core values of TCC - as its one of the main things that helps with child/parent relationship/bonding/trust and what make the rest of it 'work'. For example, I have never been big on 'baby proofing' - my son can safely get up and down the stairs, I dont have to worry about him playing with knives inappropriatly, when we go for a walk I dont have to worry about him running out into the road, etc I dont think any of this would be possible if we didnt have that strong bond/relationship/trust! I am not claiming to be a perfect parent or that we dont have any 'issues'...and I dont want this to sound judmental but I have no friend that are either TCC/AP at all in the slightest - and yet out of all my friends I have been the only one who has managed (so far! hehe) without 'toddler reins' and who doesnt freak out if thers a hot cup of coffee/tea on the table in small child reach. Which may seem like small things, but to me they are very big things to be proud of - and I can honestly see the TCC links! It works for us!

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#747 of 1095 Old 11-18-2007, 10:13 AM
 
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Hi Everyone,

I am new to the CC idea, although I did AP(but later as I didn't find out about it ) with my little one. We have been very child focused, and we want to change. I read the book, but I'm still not sure how to "repair" what we have done. He has never been 2 daycare, just hubby and I and grandparents, which has been great and a challenge considering we work full-time. He has been mostly around adults, and less often the kids he sees are at the playground. What is the best thing to do at this stage, co-sleep? We are moving toward a family centered life, rather than child centere, and including him. I am just not sure what to do with him since we didn't do the arms in phase, etc.... I read through the thread, but didn't see much for people that wanted to try to make any amends they could starting a bit later in life....
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#748 of 1095 Old 11-20-2007, 02:50 PM
 
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Cello, how old is your child? My top suggestion is to get him involved in helping you work around the house and yard. Here are some ideas, and there's been some discussion of work in this thread.

I would focus less on "making amends" than in doing things right at this stage.

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#749 of 1095 Old 11-24-2007, 11:27 AM
 
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He is almost two. Attachment parenting is starting to show: he thinks the world should revolve around him. I am trying continuum, but my parent spoil him rotten, which I am working hard to change since he spends so much time with them.

I looked at the website, and at 2, I really don't know how much of it I can do with him, but I will try.

Thanks for writing back!
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#750 of 1095 Old 11-26-2007, 04:51 AM
 
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i love this... i've just read the book and am still processing..

but i was hoping to find some insight, as to why my APed 10.5mo has never crawled (he is at the cruising stage now, though) or been interested in doing so. why he hates lying on his back of tummy for even a second for diaper changes. and why he is so excessively high-energy and squirmy.

?

for example, we'd be out on a shopping trip where he'd be in a front-pack carrier the whole time; i'd be talking to him, involving him in touching our purchases, etc.
why then, on return to the car, would he refuse to sit in his car seat, but want to stand and bounce and release pent-up energy for a good 30mins? why didn't that energy dissipate in bodily contact with me while shopping?

He WAS in-arms in infancy a great deal, and when he wasn't would then be sitting beside me. and we do have a very boring household (usually just him alone at home with a single carer), and i am a very still and often motionless mama (my activities are all carried out sitting down).
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