Continuum concept (ish) Tribe - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 1095 Old 07-12-2004, 03:04 PM
 
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Great post Periwinkle!
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#62 of 1095 Old 07-13-2004, 04:29 PM
 
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Hello,

I never check this section of MDC - but I am happy that I did today. I am an avid CC-er. I wish that we could have our own subforum. . .

I am on the listserv (previously mentioned) on the CC website, but it would be great to have an ongoing thing here for people who don't want to deal with the mail volume and/or to share information with a wider audience and/or to just be able to read some more user-friendly posts.

I have been incorporating TCC into my life since I read the book when ds was 2 mo. old, with quite a bit of success. Here in MN we also have a local group that tries to meet about once a month.

As far as an update of the book - Jean Liedloff actually has a commentary on Amazon.com reviews that she is trying to get them to take out the homosexuality passage but has no control. As far as it being outdated - well, that happens to books. As far as her just "being a white girl with no kids" or whatever - I should ask on the listserv, but my understanding is that she spent quite a bit of time studying other work before coming to her conclusions. The most important ideas in the book are supported by the work of people like John Bowlby and James W. Prescott (off the top of my head.) Oh, and Joseph Chilton Pearce, too.

Anyway - my ds is 14 mo. and the worst part of being in this culture, for me, (okay, besides car seats) has been trying to find activities that I can do with ds that do not require me to stare at him, hover over him, or constantly apologize to other parents (GRRRR.) It is all *so* difficult without a tribe.

As far as kids sleeping better without a sling - I think they sleep longer and deeper that way - but who are we to say that that is "better"? I carried ds through all of his naps until he crawled at 8.5 mo. Now that he is "sleeping better" - in the bed - for 2-3 hours at a time, I've been having a lot more problems coping with life. He actually sleeps *too* deeply this way and has "nap terrors" anyway. I might as well still sling him for all of his naps though he's 14 mo. and weighs 25 pounds. Sometimes I still do.

Thanks for starting this thread! I almost cried when I saw that someone had.

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#63 of 1095 Old 07-13-2004, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MisfitMama
Anyway - my ds is 14 mo. and the worst part of being in this culture, for me, (okay, besides car seats)
OMG, I couldn't agree more wrt carseats. Of course I use them because we have to now that we have cars and roads but...I hate them. All of my babies screamed in them.

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Originally Posted by MisfitMama
has been trying to find activities that I can do with ds that do not require me to stare at him, hover over him, or constantly apologize to other parents (GRRRR.)
I'd highly recommend having a couple of more kids. :LOL : Sorry, I couldn't help it. Seriously though I always have things to be doing. I generally just have had the baby in the sling while I'm cooking, cleaning, doing dishes, doing laundry, running errands or tending to my older two. This pretty much takes up all of my time. Now he's older and enjoys spending time exploring so he doesn't need to be in the sling quite as much but I still just go about my business and then when he needs me he comes and hops in the sling. He pays so much attention to what I'm doing and I can tell he's learning. He already says "hot" and hold his hand up (like stop) because he's frequently on my back when I'm cooking.

Maybe you could try to go and visit w/people more so your entire focus isn't on him. Also going out to explore and take walks and hikes in nature is good. Maybe some of the other mamas will have more ideas.

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As far as kids sleeping better without a sling - I think they sleep longer and deeper that way - but who are we to say that that is "better"?
Great point. I'd say w/all the SIDS info we've proven how dangerous it is for young babies to sleep by themselves.
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#64 of 1095 Old 07-23-2004, 07:30 PM
 
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MamaAllNatural,

Did you read TCC before your *first* child? I can't remember what you said. I'd love to have another baby. . . later! Are you trying to say that it gets easier with each one? I fear that it will only get more difficult.

I do try to get out every day, and I have a makeshift "tribe," etc.. But every so often I make the mistake of not having plans for the day. . .

My ds won't go on my back in the house anymore - he hasn't put up with that since 5 mo. (he has to see and touch everything, so he thinks.) So that is what has been so hard.

I sure do wish he had some older cousins running around the house or something, though. *sigh*

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#65 of 1095 Old 07-24-2004, 10:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MisfitMama
MamaAllNatural,
Did you read TCC before your *first* child? I can't remember what you said.
Unfortunately no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisfitMama
I'd love to have another baby. . . later! Are you trying to say that it gets easier with each one? I fear that it will only get more difficult.
Um no, I didn't mean it gets easier w/each one. : Sorry. I just meant you'd have plenty to do w/a couple more kids. :LOL

I'm sorry more of the mamas didn't reply to your questions. I'm afraid I wasn't helpful enough.
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#66 of 1095 Old 07-24-2004, 11:30 PM
 
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it is not physically easier to have a lot of little ones. but it is easier to have a mini village and know my place as a mamma and get closer to continuum parenting.

misfit mama, perhaps, and i'm guessing here, you need to see mammas with older kids. only my ruby has been okay with some same age play.

okay, too much yelling over there, gotta go but i'm around!
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#67 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 12:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by casina
misfit mama, perhaps, and i'm guessing here, you need to see mammas with older kids. only my ruby has been okay with some same age play.
No, you're right. Most of my friends that I've met since having ds have kids about the same age. It's so much easier when he's with older kids - he just sits and stares at them.

I am so sick of playgrounds, though! I feel so oppressed by them.



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#68 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 12:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MisfitMama
It's so much easier when he's with older kids
Definately! This is one of the reasons we're unschooling. Kids weren't meant to be put into groups of same aged peers.

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Originally Posted by MisfitMama
I am so sick of playgrounds, though! I feel so oppressed by them.
Would you explain this a little more? Do you mean things like people freaking out if you let your child climb up the slide or play in a tree?
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#69 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 01:53 AM
 
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i find the whole playdate thing contrived. though necessary to check people out. i've better off with a weekly habit. my kids too. my best find was my local homeschooling group. mammas at home, much wisdom and tolerance and love for the little ones. remember cruising the parks just to find people i could stand.....i still think knowing any kind of neighbors is a good thing. though i have had little luck with that (one of my neighbors is a daycare of crying children, and a few doors down across the street is section 8 housing)

and i don't think you have to have "plans" or get out everyday. of course it depends on you and your child's personalities.

i still have times where i'm slinging my over 25lb 10 month old for most of the day. it is less now though i would venture that if she did not have her brothers to catch up with, i would be holding her much more.

haha, y'all would laugh at the things my kids have done at parks. enough for me to get yelled at.

i've been cross all day, sorry if the tone is my post seems worn....
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#70 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 02:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casina
haha, y'all would laugh at the things my kids have done at parks. enough for me to get yelled at.
Casina, I would love to hear the stories when you're up to telling them.

Sorry you've had a hard day. Mine was similar.
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#71 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 02:33 AM
 
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my body is just run down and my husband's depression getting to me along with summer heat and pent up kids. it's an isolating kind of weather. i cracked a rib last week. everything feminine and digestive is weird. i ran a stop sign and dented a truck yesterday. i should have known things were bad when a few days ago i got up and opened my contacts case and these was only one. then last night i was so tired i hit my head and when i was ready to get my contacts out, for a minute i panicked that the case was empty. wow, i'm doing bad huh?!!!

well, there's the time clay obviously peed in the sand. he was a little over two and happenned to be bare butted. i got screamed from a distance for unsanitariness. ruby was a newborn and i offered a diaper to put on him and apologized for it bothering them. my boys readily carry sticks which also makes people nervous. fortunately that was when i knew my homeschool group was okay the first time i met them - after i explained to reed he had to leave his torch (stick with a ribbon) on the van, we walked up and all the kids had sticks and swords. anyway one time at homeschool park day, i guess he was four then he had a "bow and arrow" from the dollar store. i would not normally permit a "weapon" in regular public at the time. (and now do not bring any toys at all) this is an easily breakable piece of plastic with and elastic string, with an arrow which was a six inch piece of flexible plastic thinner than a straw with a suction cup on the end. well apparently he actually got it aloft, and it whizzed by a toddler in a swing and the mom wasn't part of our group and was already nervous about us. she walked over and proceeded to yell at reed. well my son doesn't react well to that kind of thing. unfortunately for some people including my mom i have not taught my children to obey and respect all adults no matter what and if you assume he is not trying his best then he will not listen to you. so what he did was he shot the arrow at the mom. this is when she grabbed his arm and brought him over to me and proceeded to yell at me in the midst of friends. all i could say was, i'm sorry you are upset about what happenned. and took the toy so it wouldn't happen again. she was in a stink that i did not make reed apologize and left soon after. after that my friends said they just wanted to shoot fake arrows at her too.

actually both incidents happenned the same day and really shook me up though i'm glad i did not punish my kids even though the pressure was large. it did make me really think about how i should react next time, and i did feel ashamed that there was bad feelings toward the banner waving sling nursing unschooling continuum goddess persona i want to exude. i'm a bit obvious with my shaved head. considered growing my hair out to be less obvious and didn't leave the house for two weeks.
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#72 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 03:07 AM
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Hello everyone.
It's great to see a CC-thread on mothering, since the CC listserve is way overwhelming to me. We've just moved to a new area, which we absolutley adore, lots of alternative- and community minded people. Not particularly CC, but somewhere near it. We live in the country and happen to live next door to a super nice family. There are two girls, 7 and 2 1/2. Ds is roughly the same age as the younger one but much less verbal than his girl friend. I think they like each other a lot, but his friend is kind of "mean" to ds when we're at their house. She often says "Kaelon can't have..., Kaelon can't do..." and so on. She always follows through with her little commands, and often times she's quite physical with him. And he with her of course. Her mom told me that she'll often talk about inviting Kaelon over "because she likes being mean to him". She'll say "remember when I shut Kaelon into my room? That was a lot of fun." She's a great kid, very sharp, and very hard-headed. Her older sister is somewhat the opposite. I notice that the younger one easily gets frustrated with things that she can't do, or can't have when the sisters play together.
We're trying to be patient with her, but a lot of times I don't know how to respond to her. It can be very frustrating. I usually ask her why Kaelon can't do this or have that, with the intent of allowing her feelings to be fully expressed rather than fuss with her and say "don't be silly, of course he can". But so far, there hasn't been much improvement and I'm getting less patient. Any insight?

Josefina.
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#73 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 03:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MISFITMAMA
He actually sleeps *too* deeply this way and has "nap terrors" anyway.
nak
if you are into homeopathy, you might want to look into aconite for him. it helped me with night terrors.

i hear ya gals on the tribe/village stuff. we are grateful -the new town we just moved to this spring is in the process of forming a families for natural living group for us to celebrate our wonderful and unique parenting styles.
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#74 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 03:34 AM
 
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What's this list everyone is talking about? I dont mind a lot of mail, and I want to learn everything I can about implementing this into my life.
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#75 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 03:59 AM
 
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josefina, i would venture that the girl is wired that way. of course she is expressing control over her environment, especially at seven. girls are still a new mystery to me, very different from boys imo. the statements themselves are the aggravating thing to me and the actual words are learned probably from the parents. if she said, i don't want to share, then it wouldn't bother me as much as the "can't" stuff. but that is beyond your control. does kaelon mind? how he reacts is what should concern you, and what can possibly make it better for all. if he is dissatisfied with some situations but is still wanting to play with her then perhaps you can give him phrases to say or actions you find appropriate, or at least let him know to come find you if he is not cool with the current situation. in the end, either they will work it out or y'all can take a break and try later. he does not have to play with her or obey her and it can still be friendly.

i'm thinking about joining the listserv again since i finally know how to divide my inbox. but i got mad at a bunch of people before for being judgmental.....i love the beliefs, but one cannot just live by one book, and we have a very different society.

persephone, http://www.continuum-concept.org/
and join the network i think?
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#76 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 04:08 AM
 
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checking in...must read the thread...Hi!

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#77 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 01:39 PM
 
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Hi ICM!
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#78 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 04:00 PM
 
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Thanks for the Welcome and this thread!

So, I’m going to read the thread and respond as I go.

I didn’t hear about the Continuum Concept until DC was about a year old but I (still) use a sling extensively, co-sleep and I’m a ‘naturally’ non-hovering type anyway. I started to consciously put the come of the CC ideas into my parenting when we were struggling with the transition into toddlerhood. At this time, switching to a ‘family centered’ rather than ‘child centered’ focus was really, really helpful. From there, I drew some confidence in some of the things that felt right to me – like involving the child in household work rather than playing “child’s games”, for instance – from CC.

About the hovering, I think that hovering actually sets this energy where you expect the child to fall, which can make the child fall. Sometimes I have to take a deep breath and shift my expectations to more positive ones. I do, however, draw a big line between things that can permanently damage or kill my child. They are rare, yes, but I choose a more “convention” type discipline with these few things – Oh, not corporal punishment or anything - GD! Another thing that I think is so important is to question our fears – or the fears of the people around us. SO many things that people freak out about aren’t even remotely seriously dangerous. Cracks me up!

About the community aspect, we do make an effort to set something up. I have a close friend and we do “work” together rather than doing park playgroups and stuff. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I don’t think they give the same impression to kids about the community. We gather at our homes, cook, and, most importantly, co-parent. I also encourage DC to interact with the people in our community. We go the same small neighborhood shops and DC has gotten to know quite a few people around here. I don’t interfere much with how DC interacts with these people – I leave it up to them.

I’m really glad that the toys issue was brought up. It’s really something that we need to cut back on. I’m a shopper (especially second hand) so I find toys all the time. It’s starting to really bug me especially because I know that toys aren’t what DC needs to play. We did just find a harmonica! What I would like for my child is that she cherishes some of her things (this is a personal desire because of my “issues”) and I feel that having endless toys will make that really difficult. Not that we have an excess by most standards – just by mine, yk? Then I think I’ll focus on “nicer” toys but that just means buying more. Thoughts? Oh, and what were your kids into at 3? DC seems like she could use a new activity. Store? And, are you playing some of these games or crafts with your children? How much interaction is too much for you with an activity?

I got to post 58 but I found it to be a good one and want to spend more time there – may have some questions. I’ll be back.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#79 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 08:09 PM
 
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just wanted to check in - i'm at mil's dial up, so can't stay on, but wanted to quickly say that i like the CC list. it has been helpful for me.

ok, gotta go.....
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#80 of 1095 Old 07-25-2004, 10:17 PM
 
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I just got the book on Friday,
Knowing things around here, who knows when it will get finished.....

Is the list very busy? I cant really keep up with a lot of emails
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#81 of 1095 Old 07-26-2004, 02:43 AM
 
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oops sorry, it is not quite joining the network. it is joining the forum. i just learned this from freecycle - you can make a new folder in your inbox, then using tools, make message rules so that all the messages from a certain place will be dumped there. that way it is seperate from you personal email and you can browse it when you want to.
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#82 of 1095 Old 07-26-2004, 03:17 PM
 
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I personally found the list too hard to keep up with. It was usually the same few people contributing, and while I found some of the information and suggestions to be helpful, it was also very redundant without providing a format (like MDC) for easy viewing/filtering. I went to daily digest format for a while and finally am just no mail currently.

Now this is a completely personal note, but I also found the genral unwillingness of the group to discuss (respectfully, dispassionately) issues or counters raised to Leidloff and the book to be kind of annoying. Some people asked good honest questions that were just ignored or flamed away, like exactly what was Leidloff's experience before writing the book, or the homophobia in the book and how can that just change without changing the assumptions underlying it, or the one-sidedness of basing an understanding of the entire human continuum off of one tribe in Central America. It had that air of untouchability that I don't like, and I'm someone who loved the book and got a lot out of it. But the Yahoo list left me with a lot to be desired. Again, just my $.02.
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#83 of 1095 Old 07-26-2004, 08:15 PM
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thanks casina for your input. The problem is that Kaelon gets very physical with the other girl (the 2 year-old not the 7 year-old)when she tells him he can't do something. It's everything that he can't do or can't have. Like going out the door, like having blueberries etc. He will claw her face if she tries stopping him. And she will use physical force if he doesn't comply with her wishes. But yes, they still do like each other. Her mom also says that she isn't usually like this with other children. However there is one other child (which Kaelon is quite close to) almost exactly the same age as Kaelon that she treats somewhat similar.

andrea-when I was on the list it was very busy. Like 30 mails a day. And often you will see the same issues being discussed. However, there are some great people there with really insightful responses.

misfitmama-you mentioned that liedloff drew some conclusions based on pearce's work. Which books? I had no idea about this. How did you find that out?
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#84 of 1095 Old 07-28-2004, 06:06 PM
 
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misfitmama-you mentioned that liedloff drew some conclusions based on pearce's work. Which books? I had no idea about this. How did you find that out?
Hi!

What? Did I say this? I will have to take time to go back and look at all my PP's, if so. . . I think I would have said that her ideas are *backed up* by Joseph Chilton Pearce's - and what I mean is, they are in *agreement.* This is also true of James W. Prescott's work, and I am assuming it is also true of John Bowlby's, just to name a few.

Right now I'm working on a website more or less on the topic of the "accurateness" of TCC. I *just* started it, but if anyone is interested, I'll post the link as soon as I've got some more info on there. I am kind of a human development research fiend.

Those of you who dropped off the listserv, I'm interested in knowing how long you were on it. I've been on for over a year and feel that my experience has been almost wholly positive. I wonder if it's because I have really "gotten to know" the various posters? I don't know what I would have done without that list.

MisfitMama
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#85 of 1095 Old 07-29-2004, 01:36 PM
 
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Hi MisfitMama - I probably got full mail version for 2-3 months, then digest for another 2-3 months after that before going No Mail.

I have to admit, I am not a big fan of distribution groups ("listservs") as I think the technology has left them in the dust, and I'm just used to a much more user-friendly view/search/read format that some of the boards (like MDC) use.

Now a CC board/forum... that's something I could get into and something I think would add a lot to the ability to discuss various topics without having to be online all the time to follow all the different conversation threads.

HTH!
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#86 of 1095 Old 07-30-2004, 12:56 PM
 
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Hi Mamas,

I've been reading your posts for the past couple of days & really relating to & gleaning information from them. I haven't read Liedloff's book, but am familiar w/ the sight & some of the concepts. We have incorporated some of the concepts, but others are new to us. I have to admit I'm a hoverer (is that a word?). However, the idea of not hovering & the results make a lot of sense to me. I just have to break the habit. Do you think changing this habit when a child is already 3 would be effective?

I appreciate your insights especially @ a time when our 3 yo is going through a lot of transition (new sister, moving, being 3 yo ).

Casina, your pictures are beautiful. Our dd is a Mei, too, only a Mei-Lynn (I wanted Lin, but my dh- who's mom we derived the Lynn from- didn't wanted to change the spelling). We've been calling her MeiMei, too. And I can totally relate to this statement "remember cruising the parks just to find people i could stand.....," especially after moving to a new place & getting ds out of the house.

I look forward to your future posts. I think I'll go find Liedloff's book now. Thanks!

Christina
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#87 of 1095 Old 07-30-2004, 02:08 PM
 
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However, the idea of not hovering & the results make a lot of sense to me. I just have to break the habit. Do you think changing this habit when a child is already 3 would be effective?
Christina-

Definitely! I don't think it's ever too late to change your way of relating to a child. (Although, of course, the sooner the better).

John Holt discusses this a bit in his book _Teach Your Own_ in the chapter called "Living With Children". Also, if you get a newer copy of TCC (the one with the cool cover, anyway), she addresses this very issue in the foreward.

I have even tried TCC-ish "techniques" on fairly mainstream kids raised by friends, and with quite amazing results. . .

Good Luck~

MisfitMama
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#88 of 1095 Old 07-30-2004, 06:10 PM
 
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the lovely misfit mama recommended this book to me on another thread, and i've been reading about it. i plan to get a copy tonight and i can't wait to read it. i wish their site was more thorough.

i was wondering if someone could give me a cliff note's version of what the author means by children are social beings vs. antisocial, (i'm assuming this means we need a village) and how this applies to everyday life and how it affects the child. i know it's a vague question, but i'm just really curious about this and want to learn more.
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#89 of 1095 Old 07-31-2004, 04:07 PM
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Well, I think the term basically just means that children are born with an innate desire to model their parents and their culture. Mainly it's in contrast to our current belief that if we don't force children (by coercion, ie schooling, inappropriate discipline etc) to cooperate they won't cooperate. Children are born wanting to cooperate, it's biological. I'm sure someone can dwell on this a little more, I'm a little short of time.

misfitmama- I was thinking that's what you were saying, that they both had arrived at the very similar conclusions. Sorry, I got confused. To me this gives more credibility to Liedloff's conclusions, since she gets a lot of heat from people (who may be very scientifically minded) who don't like that she takes one culture and assumes that this is how humans were supposed to live in order to be happy.
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#90 of 1095 Old 07-31-2004, 05:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morsan
Mainly it's in contrast to our current belief that if we don't force children (by coercion, ie schooling, inappropriate discipline etc) to cooperate they won't cooperate. Children are born wanting to cooperate, it's biological.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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