I peirced my DDs ears yesterday.... - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by monkaha
...
And another thought: yeah, the gun isn't sterile, but the studs that they pierce you with are...
Sure they are. Until you stick them into the non-sterile gun.

As for the OP,
Piercing someone else's body, ANY part, without their consent is not something you'd catch me doing. Sure there are "worse things". But there's always a "worse thing" - and that doesn't make a bad thing any better.
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#122 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:14 AM
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I had dd's ears pierced for her 6-mo bday, on valentine's day. we nursed on my left breast while her left ear got pierced. we maintained eye contact the whole time. she popped off my breast and squealed once when it happened, then buried herself right back into my boob. we hung out and talked with the jeweler for a few minutes, then switched sides. repeated for the right ear.

i don't feel like dd was traumatized by the event. she has never fussed with her ears. i knew that i wouldn't pierce her ears as a young child, or until she was at least 11 or 12, so it was either when she was an infant or a preteen. I choose infant, honestly, so I wouldn't have to deal with her begging me for earrings from ages 4-10.

flame away.
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#123 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:30 AM
 
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My oldest DD asked for pierced ears at age 4 and I did it. I did not feel she could fully "consent" but knew based on how she handled vax's and a minor surgery that she had a high pain tolerance. The piercing was done at our ped's office.

DD claimed it did not hurt at all. She did not even flinch. Of course this was a kid who when she had her tonsils out went home and ate four bowels of pasta becasue she "felt fine."
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#124 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 09:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by happyhippiemama
I had dd's ears pierced for her 6-mo bday, on valentine's day. we nursed on my left breast while her left ear got pierced. we maintained eye contact the whole time. she popped off my breast and squealed once when it happened, then buried herself right back into my boob. we hung out and talked with the jeweler for a few minutes, then switched sides. repeated for the right ear.

i don't feel like dd was traumatized by the event. she has never fussed with her ears. i knew that i wouldn't pierce her ears as a young child, or until she was at least 11 or 12, so it was either when she was an infant or a preteen. I choose infant, honestly, so I wouldn't have to deal with her begging me for earrings from ages 4-10.

flame away.
Ok I will :LOL This is just wierd. If my child is BEGGING for earrings, I would discuss with her about what it means to pierce ones ears, the care required, the pain etc. If she still wanted to, I would probably set a date. We could mark it on the calendar together. That way it isn't something on the whim, it is something that is thought about over a month or whatever date we choose. I would discuss it with her everyday, go visit a salon a couple times to see real people getting their ears pierced, hopefully be able to catch another small child so she can see their reaction, and also see adults reactions etc.

Yea, it takes more time, but then she would be fully prepared for it. She is 5 now, when she asks me about it, I start the process. *Well, honey, it is a big responsibility. You will need to make sure to keep them very clean. It will hurt when you get them pierced cause they stick a sharp needle in your ear. It will hurt for awhile until after the holes heal.* Usually by this point she says she doesn't want to do it.

It really isn't that hard to communicate and convey thoughts and feelings to our children.

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#125 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 10:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Spicey Momma
: *sniff* noone agrees with me...........
Well, you did ask for opinions, what did you expect? In my opinion, it is wrong. Why inflict pain on a baby unecessarily, especially so she can look like a "princess"? Yuck! That's my reaction, and I have the same reaction whenever I see babies with earings. I think it objectifies them, and it totally for the parent's amusement. Girls in our culture face enough pressure to suffer in order to be "pretty," there is no need to start when they are infants. So, there ya go, there's an opinon for you.

In regard to agreeing with you, I don't think there is anything wrong with people stating an opinion, even a "harsh" one with an issue like this. Maybe it will make someone else think twice before doing this. I am sure you are a decent person, but I think what you did was wrong, and not "crunchy" at all.

Oh, and in regard to the "cultural tradition" argument? Well, circ is a cultural thing too, and it still doesn't make it right. Lots of "cultural traditions" are obsolete and should be left by the wayside. People pick and choose from their cultural traditions all the time. Sticking with one that inflicts nonconsensual risk and suffering on a helpless baby tells you something about the individual momma, not the culture. Pick another way to express your heritage. I will never "respect" it.
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#126 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 10:22 AM
 
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DD's ears are not pierced and everyone questions me why, family, friends and strangers. I'm not against piercing ears however I want to make a day of it when she is older.

My mom died when I was 8 and one of the few memories I have is when I was 6 she took me to the mall and we spent the day shopping and getting my ears pierced. She bought me a beautiful pair of earing that I still have. then we went out for lunch. It is a great memory and I hope to do the same with my daughter
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#127 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 10:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Poetmama
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Ear piercing is usually a cultural thing in which no one is going to change my mind about piercing this daughter or any future daughters. I can trace my culture's love of earings back to the Olmec people of Mexico (pre-hispanic). My ears were pierced at three weeks old, my dd was three months old. Shame on me? Shame on you who cannot respect another's cultural choices. My dd's earlobes are not attached to her reproductive system (ie: Circumcision). If she doesn't want them in the future, her choice. She doesn't have to wear them. So next time you are thinking your deep, deep ethical thoughts, perhaps you should think about the background of the family you are judging. When we peirced, we used a repitable source, not just some sixteen year old with a cart on a corner.

Really, I hate this topic. You aren't going to change my mind, I'm not going to change yours. When you look at me and my dd, you will just see an evil mom decorating her daughter, I will see a mom carrying on the tradition of her people.
I , personally, think that babies souldn't be pierced but there is a huge difference between the act being a part of a cultural heritage and doing it just because the mother thinks it's cute. I know in my previous post it didn't sound that way. When I see a baby with earrings I don't assume to know the mother's motivations - I'm not going to confront her for having it done. I'm not going to tell the baby that the earrings are bad.

If someone asks should they do it I'll say no - If they come looking for validation that what they did was right I'll say it wasn't - that's what I believe. The OP came here and said she did it because she wanted to - she thought it was cute. I think this is wrong.


Side note: While I see the logic used to make the argument - I do not think that ear piercing is on the same level as Circ.

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#128 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by monkaha
And another thought: yeah, the gun isn't sterile, but the studs that they pierce you with are.
If you think that makes a difference, I'd like to suggest that you research this a little more thoroughly.
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#129 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 11:12 AM
 
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I haven't seen anyone suggest, in this thread, that it's wrong to pierce a child's ears when the child asks. The argument is over non-consensual piercing, not the general piercing of a child's ears. I've seen a few posters who seem to think that they will be taken to task for complying with their child's request, but nobody here has spoken out against that. If I'm wrong here, by all means let me know.

And to throw in my two cents, I'm in the camp that believes a parent has no right to make that decision for a child. The argument that "there are worse things" is fallacious and can be used in an attempt to justify a broad range of behaviors that, while deplorable, are not the absolute pinnacle of child abuse. It's right up there with the logic that "My parents did (unwise parenting decision) to me and I'm just fine, so (unwise parenting decision) must be a good choice."
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#130 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Raven67
Why inflict pain on a baby unecessarily, especially so she can look like a "princess"? Yuck!

My daughter IS a princess! Maybe I am more mainstream than I think? I BF, CO-sleep, babywear, CD, selective vax, and I do my best to AP. However my decision to peirce my princess was the right one for me. I stand behind my decision now. I can't believe how rude some of you are. If you asked my opinion about something that I disagreed with, I would be tactful in my response. WHY??? Because I care about other peoples feelings. But I guess there are very few people that feel that way
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#131 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by riotkrrn
The argument that "there are worse things" is fallacious and can be used in an attempt to justify a broad range of behaviors that, while deplorable, are not the absolute pinnacle of child abuse.
Saying that ear piercing your infant is not the "absolute pinnacle of child abuse" is insulting to people who have suffered real abuse - been burned with cigs, called a worthless piece of sh*t, etc.

You can not like something (I'm not a big fan of peirced ears on babes) and state your opinion without making fallacious comparisons -to genital mutilation, to child abuse etc.

(BTW, I don't mean to pick on the quoted post - a lot of posts said the same thing).

And I don't know why "stating an opinion" is justification for harsh posts; they are two different things. Have we lost all civility? Can't we discuss and disagree without : Tough love doesn't work - you aren't going to shake a mother into seeing things your way with stident, harsh words.
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#132 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 12:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamawanabe
Saying that ear piercing your infant is not the "absolute pinnacle of child abuse" is insulting to people who have suffered real abuse - been burned with cigs, called a worthless piece of sh*t, etc.
How is that insulting? I don't follow your logic. I was not stating that non-consensual ear piercing is akin to greater forms of abuse; my point was that just because something is a lesser evil does not excuse it. To use another analogy, the act of pinching my toddler is not rendered harmless by the fact that other parents are burning their toddlers with cigarettes. The latter is not discounted or trivialized by the fact that the former is also unacceptable, but the fact remains that they are both on a continuum of actions that deliberately cause pain to children.
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#133 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 12:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by riotkrrn
How is that insulting? I don't follow your logic.
Because such anologies trivalize the pain of someone who was truely abused - someone who had parents who took out thier anger by punching and burning and screaming insults at their children.

Like if your child died of cancer and someone said to you "I sorta know how hard it is - my cat died of cancer last year."

Ear peircing a babe is not child abuse. You might not like it ideologically (I don't), but it isn't child abuse.
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#134 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Spicey Momma
Maybe I am more mainstream than I think? I BF, CO-sleep, babywear, CD, selective vax, and I do my best to AP. However my decision to peirce my princess was the right one for me. I stand behind my decision now. I can't believe how rude some of you are. If you asked my opinion about something that I disagreed with, I would be tactful in my response. WHY??? Because I care about other peoples feelings. But I guess there are very few people that feel that way
Don't measure yourself against anyone else's proverbial yard stick. I am moderately crunchy, way more mainstream than my crunchy friends and way more crunchy than my mainstream friends. Everyone accepts my choices and knows that my choices are just that. They know I made informed decisions based on what was right for my family in those circumstances.

Shame on all you "I dont judge, BUT..." people. This is a place for a community of mama's to encourage each other and spur eachother on. To many people this is the only place they can come to find that. You have every right to you oppinion and to share it, but don't be harsh to another mama who is here to find refuge and resourses they are unlikely to get anywhere else.

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#135 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 12:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Spicey Momma
However my decision to peirce my princess was the right one for me. I stand behind my decision now.
If you're so sure it's the right decision and you stand behind it, why even bother asking people for their opinions?

I don't have a problem with getting a kids ears pierced when they are old enough to want to do it. But to me piercing an infants ears is no different than say, you and your DH getting drunk one night and while you are passed out your DH decides you'd look great with a navel/eyebrow/nose/whatever ring and goes ahead and does it while you are unable to say yes or no. Not cool.

I don't feel that it's abuse but I certainly don't feel it's respectful of your child at all.
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#136 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 01:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamawanabe
Because such anologies trivalize the pain of someone who was truely abused - someone who had parents who took out thier anger by punching and burning and screaming insults at their children.

Like if your child died of cancer and someone said to you "I sorta know how hard it is - my cat died of cancer last year."

Ear peircing a babe is not child abuse. You might not like it ideologically (I don't), but it isn't child abuse.
Whether it is or is not child abuse is not the issue at hand here. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post; I do not believe that non-consensual ear piercing is child abuse. My argument was that just because children are being subjected to actual, horrifying child abuse does not make it ok to commit lesser acts that still intentionally cause pain. I hope that clears up what may just be a misconception of my intent.

FWIW, I lost my eldest daughter and have never felt that a friend who lost a beloved pet had no right to say they knew grief, just because it was less catastrophic than the loss of a child.
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#137 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 01:12 PM
 
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not that another 2cents needs to be added here, but dh & i decided that dd would stay as we made her (except for haircuts) for the early years. The ear piercing will be her decision when she is old enough to accept all responsibility for them (in our family, it's usually "double digits" ). I think spicey is like a lot of other mamas who are part crunchy & part not & made a decision based on her definition of what makes a baby cute. I know that there are really strong opinions here & appreciate a good debate any day, but the venom and anger about this seems out of proportion to the issue.
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#138 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Spicey Momma
My daughter IS a princess!
T I've always wanted to ask, what IS it with the princess
stuff?

Now I KNOW I overthink things (it's the English major in me), but I've wondered about that particular role model for girls and what it suggests. Now it could be that my background (more cultural and class baggage here perhaps) just didn't offer the princess option to girls like me...perhaps this is another thread...
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#139 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by bobica
I know that there are really strong opinions here & appreciate a good debate any day, but the venom and anger about this seems out of proportion to the issue.

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#140 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by burritomama
T I've always wanted to ask, what IS it with the princess
stuff?

Now I KNOW I overthink things (it's the English major in me), but I've wondered about that particular role model for girls and what it suggests. Now it could be that my background (more cultural and class baggage here perhaps) just didn't offer the princess option to girls like me...perhaps this is another thread...


For me, Taylor is a princess for the following reasons:

1. DH is the oldest of 7 boys, his mother never had a daughter.
2. DS was born first, so I thought I would never have a daughter either.
3. My DH and DS are wild, heathen, wildabeast (and I say this in the MOST way possible!!!) They run, yell, "play" fight, fish, and do all things Male!
4. For years I felt I would be the only woman in our home. When I found out I was having a DD I wanted her to know all the special things about being a girl. I really am blessed, because she is soooooo girly! She loves to get dress, pick out shoes and diapers. She loves to pretend w/ makeup and carry a purse. It's enough to make me cry. Finally there is some balance in my home. And that is why my DD is a

However, for years my DS have been called "king of the castle" :LOL
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#141 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:01 PM
 
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delete double post, sorry
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#142 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bobica
\ I know that there are really strong opinions here & appreciate a good debate any day, but the venom and anger about this seems out of proportion to the issue.

I'm wondering why. Maybe because for many of us this seems such a clear-cut issue that it is easy and nice to get on a high horse for once (so many parenting issues are anything but clear-cut)?

Just weird. Santa threads are another that turn mean quickly, all out of proportion with the issue at hand . . .
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#143 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:08 PM
 
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I agree that opinions are just fine and if yours makes me think about mine, then that's a good thing. It's the vitriol we could do without. That just brings my bile up and then I can certainly not think.

Congratulations on your little princess, Spicey Momma!

Burritomama, I'm with Frances Hodgson Burrett (sp?) on the princess thing. Every little girl is one.

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

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#144 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:32 PM
 
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Santa threads are another that turn mean quickly,
Yeah, isn't it funny. I mean, sorta, in a way
D*mn, where's that AP checklist? I think we fall off at Christmas time.
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#145 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:35 PM
 
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Princess discussion deleted and moved to its own thread per Burritomama.

The only thing you owe to others is to behave with integrity.
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#146 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:42 PM
 
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PSSST: princess discussion now continuing in its own thread in Parenting Issues.

Carry on.
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#147 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 02:43 PM
 
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Well, I took the advice here and read up on the whole piercing gun/ mall kiosk thing and all I can say is :Puke

I hope that everyone else will read up on it as well. My oldest had hers pierced at her request about 2 months ago...at the mall. :Puke I never thought much about it. I have had mine done there twice with never a problem. None of my friends or family has ever had a problem either, but none of my kids will ever be pierced by "the gun" :Puke

My 3yo is dying for hers to be done, but I already told her that she needs to wait until she is older so she can be better understand what's involved. When its time we will be going to a licensed piercing studio and having it done with a disposable piercing needle. (yes, its legal in my state for parents to consent for children to be pierced at a tattoo/piercing studio...I already checked that out!)

Yikes people...do some reading!

"Ban the gun!!!"

:Puke
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#148 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 03:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by meowee
sometime they fill with puss even though not infected. Like a pimple. I would have to open them up myself with a needle but she doesn't want me to. Probably she'll want to when she's older.
Meowee, look up my last post and click the link for "hypertrophic scarring". This is not something it's wise to just basically ignore. You need to have, at the very least, a licensed, experienced, *proper* piercer take a look at it, and if you really must leave the hole there, you need to replace the stud with some good-quality piercing jewelry so the scarring can heal up properly.

I agree with Wemoon that this is a PERFECT example of why it's not wise to pierce tiny ones for your own pleasure.
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#149 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 03:53 PM
 
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Ok being new here, and really not considering myself "crunchy" at all. ( I dont even think i know what that means, LOL)
My daughter will be 3 very soon and all the baby girls in my family have always had their ears done as a baby. My daughter did not and she will not until she can go and get it done herself.
I do not want her having her ears done so that when she is 14 she can just skip the ears and go straight to the belly button or tongue. I want her to feel the pain of having her ears done (while i hope it hurts horribly, lol) and REMEMBER IT so that she will not think of getting anything else done.

Just my freaky way of looking at it i guess, :LOL
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#150 of 433 Old 10-12-2004, 04:04 PM
 
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WRT Culture- I was raised to beleive that peircing my daughter's ear was the only thing to do, by the time she is 3 months old at the latest.

Culture is an interesting thing. I embrace my varied culture. But don't "shame on me" for not embracing something I find morally wrong about my culture. Circumcision is a cultural tradition, and many stand up against the continuing of it, even in the name of culture. I don't find ear piercing as damaging or as permanent. I'm not removing part of her body- I realize it isn't a perfect analogy. But IMO culture is no excuse *IF* you believe it is morally wrong.
That said, I won't push my morals on you- I just really disliked the "shame on you" comment if I decide to state that I find it morally wrong. *I* do not think culture is a valid reason to continue doing something I find wrong. No shame on me for that, none at all.
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