"SAHM jobs" vs. SAH full-time - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 89 Old 11-24-2004, 01:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Faith
If you are soooo okay with not just SAH, then why are you blowing up?
Darn, I forgot the ever useful "I must be right because what I said p!ssed you off, therefore you must feel guilty" argument. By that logic you must feel guilty for staying home since you need to so vigorously defend it. This has become utterly useless. Thank you for perpetuating the bull$h!t that society heaps on all mothers. I guess you aren't really looking to make things better, are you?

To Amys1st, mamawanabe, wawap, kaydeesac, charmarty, zipperump-a-zoomum, and all the rest...you guys rock!

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#62 of 89 Old 11-24-2004, 01:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wawap


"Mothering" will never get the respect it deserves until all mothers learn to respect one another. It's a plain and simple fact.

Laura
This bears repeating...

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#63 of 89 Old 11-24-2004, 11:00 AM
 
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Nicolee77- thank you, I try to rock!

But since my 15 minutes is almost up on this subject,
I think we need to say- remember we are all in this together. Not everyone is going to be happy being a SAHM. An unhappy mama leads to all kinds of other problems.
Faith- if being a SAHM 100% with out any sort of anything else works for you-then more power to you. But don't look down on others because its not their cup of tea.

As a SAHM I have never worked so hard in my life. There is no lunch hours, breaks, vacation days, or quitting time to leave. Nor are there raises etc. BTW- I am not complaining I am explaining! Thats quite an adjustment for a lot of people though and if getting out of the house a few hours a week helps the mom, then more power to her as well.

Remember, this is a very diposable society. For most woman now- there are so many choices that your grandmothers did not have. If you went to school- you could study what you were interested in. If you decided it didn't work, you could switch majors. If the guy you were in a relationship wasn't going anywhere, you could trade him in for a new model. You can work and if the job or career choice is not your thing, you have the means to do something about it. There are so many choices out there.

But, when the baby comes, you cannot undo that- its not going back- nor can you trade it in for a new one! If you spend your time with the baby or if you have to be away from the baby to fill a financial need, the baby is not going away. With choices comes other problems but we need to support these woman who make different choices than our own. Their children are the same generation as your children and they could cross paths some day.

Faith I wish you the best, and again, if I meet you in a darkened alley, don't be too hard on me since I don't live up to your expectations. But remember you may run into one day as a fellow PTA parent, friend at church, a LLL member, or even yet- future MIL to your children. It may not be me, but someone just like me and she also would not appreciate the high expectations and judgement put on her or her children

"The true joy of life is the trip. The station is only a dream. It constantly out distances us."
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#64 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 01:08 AM
 
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I see a lot of defensiveness on this thread too. Many women don't feel like they're allowed to "just" SAHM. That's how it is. NO ONE FEELS LIKE THEY'RE NOT *ALLOWED* TO SELL SHIT ON E-BAY, or have Tupperware parties, or sell Avon. In fact, you are encouraged to do so both culturally and by the shiny, shiny money.

This is the second thread I've seen in five minutes that degenerated into paycheck mamas berating SAHM's for daring to suggest that we just might have something special to complain about.
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#65 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 03:15 PM
 
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SAH full time parents having anything to complain about is acceptable. Using phrases like "another one bites the dust" or "paycheck mamas" in reference to SAHP who have to or choose to generate some type of income is elitist and insulting.

I think it is one thing to complain about people's judgements of SAHM/D FT, yet another to complain and then judge others. Why does it have to be such a war? I know I hate having to explain that I need to provide childcare to supplement our tiny income, yet at the same time I am glad that the environment I live in is surrounded by SAH full time and PT who appear more accepting then what I would have epected from so called more open-minded AP mamas.

I love coming to MDC and seeing the diversity in here. I hate seeing the diversity being compared and challenged. To repeat what I already said, there is nothing wrong with complaining about how one feels judged. It is another to complain about feeling judged and then fueling fire to the judgement cycle.

To repeat the wonderful quote I read earlier "Mothering will never get the respect it deserves until all mothers learn to respect one another. It's a plain and simple fact."- Laura
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#66 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 04:31 PM
 
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Part of that respect is not personalizing someone else's expressions of aggravation at her own situatuion. If what the OP said made you hot under the collar, maybe, just maybe that's your problem and not hers. Give her the respect of understanding that she is having a normal exasperated reaction to irritating circumstances. Give me the respect of slowing down for five minutes and thinking "ok, paycheck mamas bothers me, but maybe I'm not seeing something here." For heaven's sake, "paycheck mamas" is from FLYLADY. How can you get less elitist than Flylady?
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#67 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 05:07 PM
 
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Urklemama, I am going to assume that you have not read this thread in its entirety. No one had any complaints about what the OP's original intent was...in fact, many people (including wohms) echoed her frustrations that parenting your children isn't considered valuable by much of society. The only thing that I took issue with in her op was her comment that she was being asked to

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
raise their DC too
This kind of comment is uncalled for and I explained quite calmly why I felt that way. The response of Faith and others to that included comments like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
If I also have my neighbors two kids here during that time (cooking for them, listening to them, answering their big & little questions, reading to them, discplining them, helping them go potty, etc...), what am I doing? I call it helping raise them. I might even be doing *more* of it than their own parents are, by the time they get here to pick them up at six and have them in bed by nine.
*These two-year-olds were being raised, no matter who was there doing it!*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pageta
I tell myself that I would rather live my simple lifestyle than have such a consumer-oriented lifestyle...Perspective, perspective
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain
The way I see it, my dd can spend time with me; I love her and accept her unconditionally. Or, she could be in daycare with a wonderful person whose love could never touch the realm of my love for her...No matter how wonderful the person, it is still a cash deal. No matter how much they love the child, they are still being paid to do it. It just seems like such a bad vibe to intrust those babies for a wage for so many hours every weekday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
I just feel bad when a mom decides not to be a SAHM, just like I feel bad when a mom doesn't BF... It is just what *I* feel is a child's birthright and it shouldn't be taken away from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
I don't see at all how AP fits in with paying someone else to spend time with your child. I just don't and never will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
me wishing it was more PC to only SAH
Nothing like a little bit of re-written history. If this post was only about according sahm the respect that they so absolutely deserve then I would have been right on that bandwagon. However, in the minds of Faith, Pageta, and Mountain you can only truly give respect to sahm by denegrating other mothers, by being self righteous and condescending about the choices others have made, and by making yourself the be-all, end-all authority on how to be a "good" mother. And that sucks. If mothers continue to deal with societal issues towards mothering this way then we may as well give up now...what is the point? They don't even have to attack us anymore...we do it quite well enough to ourselves. What a shame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura
"Mothering" will never get the respect it deserves until all mothers learn to respect one another. It's a plain and simple fact.

"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." -Isaac Asimov read.gif

 
 
 
 

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#68 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 05:10 PM
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Is Momma getting her needs met? Are the kids getting their needs met? If there's another parent, is he/she getting his/her needs met?

That's what matters, IMO. There's nothing intrinsically wrong or callous about being a person who doesn't get all of your needs met through parenting, and there's nothing wrong or lazy about being someone who does. If working (or school, or volunteering, or taking classes, or whatever) is what helps you feel good about who you are, do it. If not, and your famiy can do without your income, don't.

I think it's important for moms to be true to themselves.

Dar

 
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#69 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 05:54 PM
 
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: Can we please watch our language?

Also, I am glad none of my quotes offended. I think we all need to agree that we want the best for our children. We also want to Mother our children the best way possible for them and us.

"The true joy of life is the trip. The station is only a dream. It constantly out distances us."
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#70 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 07:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by urklemama
Part of that respect is not personalizing someone else's expressions of aggravation at her own situatuion. If what the OP said made you hot under the collar, maybe, just maybe that's your problem and not hers. Give her the respect of understanding that she is having a normal exasperated reaction to irritating circumstances. Give me the respect of slowing down for five minutes and thinking "ok, paycheck mamas bothers me, but maybe I'm not seeing something here." For heaven's sake, "paycheck mamas" is from FLYLADY. How can you get less elitist than Flylady?

I think it is quite clear that everyone is personalizing this. Mothering is a personal thing and I think everyone appears to be "hot under the collar" in this thread. I do/did respect that in the op Faith was have a "normal exaxperated reaction to irritating circumstances". If you were to read my other posts in this thread you might find that I was trying to validate both sides.

Also, I have no clue who Flylady is. Labels in general can be taken offensively. No matter who you are. If you knew me, you would likely read my posts differently too . That's just part of what can happen on a board where we just read words and aren't able to see the other 90% of body language. Don't get me wrong I MDC. I also like hearing others perspectives EVEN when I don't agree.

Thanks for reminding me that I might not understand where someone is coming from when they make statements such as paycheck mama b/c I don't truly know most of you. I come in
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#71 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 07:26 PM
 
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Sorry, Amy! : I will try to tone down the


"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." -Isaac Asimov read.gif

 
 
 
 

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#72 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 08:02 PM
 
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Here's another thought from somebody who's been around a few of these threads and given it a lot of thought over the years.

Does anyone remember the song made into the Enjoli perfume commercials? "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let you forget you're a man! 'Cause I'm a woman...." Anybody remember "Family Ties"?

The whole society has bought into the whole thing, hook, line and sinker. I used to look down on women who chose to stay home and not "do anything" other than mother. Combined with the above, personal experience with some really lazy people (think stereotypical soap opera watching housewives), for years and years I believed it was a lazy, intellectual cop-out. Then I had friends who had babies and watched them struggle on all fronts. Then I had mine and the full impact of my idiocy hit me.

Everyone, everyone is constantly being barraged to "do more." It's not just SAHMs. It's everybody, people. I'm nearly 40 and I'm finally making time to do some scrapbooking for no other reason than because I want to. I've finally started saying 'no' to requests to volunteer, to the feeling that I need to "do something" for my professional society "because if I don't nobody else will," etc. I'm making time to read the books I want to read, not because they're going to enrich me or make me more informed but because I simply enjoy them.

I see the original intent of the OP, but I also see a tendency to judge others by her own yardstick, and really, isn't that most of the problem, as has been eloquently said above? Every single person is different, every single family is different. I agree with the spirit of the OP's post, but I disagree that it (the pressure) is directed at only SAHMs. I feel everybody feels the same type of pressure: do more, accomplish more, make more. I would wager that nearly every single mama here has felt this pressure, no matter her work/home situation.
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#73 of 89 Old 11-26-2004, 09:46 PM
 
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Everyone, everyone is constantly being barraged to "do more." It's not just SAHMs. It's everybody, people. I'm nearly 40 and I'm finally making time to do some scrapbooking for no other reason than because I want to. I've finally started saying 'no' to requests to volunteer, to the feeling that I need to "do something" for my professional society "because if I don't nobody else will," etc. I'm making time to read the books I want to read, not because they're going to enrich me or make me more informed but because I simply enjoy them.
Good point.

And I am doing the same things. Reading trashy novels, just for fun. I have made several scrapbooks, and I have joined a gym. And i have finally cut down some of my volunteer hours at my sons school....i still do crossing guard, but i only do the lunchroom/playground 3 days a week. Let someone else do it. After almost 18 yrs, i deserve it. Oh, and i no longer take "call" at the hospital i work for. Saying "no" sounds good and feels even better.

I have also put going for my Masters on hold. If i have to write one more paper in APA format, i will jump from my roof.
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#74 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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Well, I am doing something radical.
I am giving up the label WOHM.

I am a mother. Period.
My mothering is not DEFINED by the fact that I also work for a paycheck.
Yes, I have to struggle with balancing work/family responsibilities.
But that does not define how I parent.

I can just hear the screaming I am going to get.. but I think this whole SAHM/WOHM dichotomy is false.. and does nothing but divide. The emphasis on it ensures that MOTHERwork.. women's work.. will never get the respect it deserves.

Yes, I know there are many of you who find labels useful. AP, Mainstream, WOHM, SAHM whatever. Useful to turn someone else into the "other"... to make sure everyone knows you are not one of THEM.

Some of you say they are empowering somehow.. that they help you find common ground with others like you. Well I am going to have to respectfully disagree.

I will not wear my label, I am taking it off.
I will not separate myself from other women that way. I will not allow myself to be divided and conquered.

I am a mother. period. I am a mother when I am at work, I am a mother when I am at home.. I am a mother when my child is with me.. and I am still a mother when he is not.

I am doing the best I can for MY family. I assume the same of you.
I honor your choices.
I undertand that many of you here do NOT honor mine... but that is actually YOUR problem, not mine. When you choose to dishonor other mothers... you ensure that your choices will also be dishonored. You perpetuate the Mommy Wars.. you create division.. you contribute to your own isolation and devaluation. Maybe we should all take responsibility for that.. instead of pointing the finger at others. Maybe we should all look INWARD for validation. Maybe when we feel frustrated at having our motherwork devalued.. we shouldn't turn right around and say things that make others feel the same way.

The truth is, as long as we are so NEEDFUL of validation from the outside, from our screwed up society.. we will be in trouble. We have to start by validating ourselves and each other.. simply as mothers. Mothers who are doing the best for their families.

Anyway.. I know there are those of you who WILL continue to think of me as a WOHM, because you need to differentiate yourself from me in order to feel validated.
Your loss.

But I will do my best to support you anyway.
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#75 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 01:21 AM
 
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Bravo, asherah!!! I'm pretty new to MDC but have been very disappointed by all the animosity I've encountered that is centered around these labels and how they are used/abused. we're all in this together, sisters! we can't expect to be respected when we don't even respect others. just take a momend and ask yourself, Why do we care so much about what other people think? We all need a good dose of confidence and a good sense of humor and a great big pat on the back. we don't hear this very often from others, if at all, but YOU ARE DOING A WONDERFUL JOB! You are raising a child! let's not read into other people's messages too much and make false assumptions and accusations about each others lifestyles. now gather round for a big
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#76 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 02:40 AM
 
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Feeling the mama love I too loved your post asherah.

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#77 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 03:04 AM
 
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Thanks asherah! That's what I was trying to say...but you said it so elequantly (sp?). I am the first to admit I do not have a way with written words. Now this is the kind of spirit I like.
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#78 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 03:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
Is Momma getting her needs met? Are the kids getting their needs met? If there's another parent, is he/she getting his/her needs met?

That's what matters, IMO. There's nothing intrinsically wrong or callous about being a person who doesn't get all of your needs met through parenting, and there's nothing wrong or lazy about being someone who does. If working (or school, or volunteering, or taking classes, or whatever) is what helps you feel good about who you are, do it. If not, and your famiy can do without your income, don't.

I think it's important for moms to be true to themselves.

Dar


Yeah, what she said.

Monica , DH :cop , DD (8) , DS1 (5) , DS2 (2/09) , and the pup
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#79 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 04:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just have a feeling this isn't going to come out right, but I will try...

I would like to thank everyone who took what I said in my OP at face value and didn't get all upset.

I admit I am confused. I have learned a *lot* here at MDC about tolerance and respect... maybe I have more to learn...

Seriously, why is it okay when a lot of us here get upset to see a friend not even try BFing, just because she didn't feel like it... But not okay for us to feel upset when a SAHM 'quits' and gets another job? I honestly don't understand that. We all agree BFing is best if at all possible, so why not SAH, if that is at all possible? Honestly, I don't understand that. Surely no one is out there argueing for formula and daycares..? We say "whatever works best for your family" or "be true to yourself" but we don't really mean it, or we would believe formula, CIO, circumcision, spanking, yelling, endless hours in a play pen, etc, would be wonderful as the family was doing the best for them and being true...
Do you see what I am saying, even if you don't agree?

Also, there is nothing wrong with my feelings from my OP. I don't go into 'working mothers' and tell them they are wrong... so I think it's rather innapropriate for non-SAHMs to come here to my SAHM thread IF they can't be supportive. I'm sure a WOHM who was the only WOHM in her area wouldn't like for me to crash her thread and be all negative.

Anyway, I just don't agree that someone can mother/raise their child if they are not with their child. It just doesn't happen like that. You simply can't care for a person you are not with. I don't think for a second that if I handed my baby off right now to someone else and went out, that I would be caring for him/mothering him/raising him/whatever when I was gone. I'm not there to comfort him, to feed him, to change him, to hold him, to know his cues like only a mommy can. That is just a fact. I don't see how that point can even be argued, but it seems like some of you are trying. Sure, I am still his mother when I am gone, but I am not *mothering* him when I am gone. I see a huge difference.

In all sencerity, none of this is meant to offend. I am just trying to explain my feelings and thoughts. I am not anti-WOHMs. My awesome MW is one, my aunt (who I love more than my own mom) worked by choice from six weeks old with both her DC, etc. But I am still allowed to have my opinion that SAH is best for DC, just like AP and BF... I wasn't attacking anyone's opinion- just society's attitude in general- about we SAHMs needing to be "more," as if there is anything that could be "more" than raising my wonderful DC.
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#80 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 04:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
"Also, there is nothing wrong with my feelings from my OP. I don't go into 'working mothers' and tell them they are wrong... so I think it's rather innapropriate for non-SAHMs to come here to my SAHM thread IF they can't be supportive. I'm sure a WOHM who was the only WOHM in her area wouldn't like for me to crash her thread and be all negative."

"Anyway, I just don't agree that someone can mother/raise their child if they are not with their child. It just doesn't happen like that. You simply can't care for a person you are not with. I don't think for a second that if I handed my baby off right now to someone else and went out, that I would be caring for him/mothering him/raising him/whatever when I was gone. I'm not there to comfort him, to feed him, to change him, to hold him, to know his cues like only a mommy can. That is just a fact. I don't see how that point can even be argued, but it seems like some of you are trying. Sure, I am still his mother when I am gone, but I am not *mothering* him when I am gone. I see a huge difference." .

I am a member of this community and I will post where I see fit.
I will not be thrust out of a discussion about MOTHERING just because someone sees fit to label me a WOHM.. and set me up as "the other."
This is not a private thread.. therefore I am not "crashing" it.

What you have said is just pure ugliness. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion.. and I am entitled to tell you it is ugly, toxic and unkind. The language is couched in such judgmental absolutes:
"You simply can't care for a person you are not with."
Well, actually, I do think I am caring for my child by providing him with shelter, food and clothing, as well as love. I could not give him those things without leaving and going to work.

How sad that you are not able to simply celebrate your own choice... but must "mourn" and judge the choices of others instead.
I feel sorry for you, really. I am surprised I am not angry, but I really am not.
I feel sorry for you. Here you are, so frustrated by the fact that your own choice is devalued.. but all you can do is focus on the choices of others. You are making your world.. and your heart.. a very small place indeed.
Sad, sad sad.
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#81 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith
We all agree BFing is best if at all possible, so why not SAH, if that is at all possible? Honestly, I don't understand that. Surely no one is out there argueing for formula and daycares..?
Breastfeeding and stay at home mothering are not equivalent issues at all. Breastfeeding is biologically the healthiest way for most babies to eat, and has been since humans have existed. Mothers being with their children all of the time is, in contrast, a relatively new phenomenon. Many, many children have spent a great deal of time in the care of someone besides mom, often but not always another relative. The idea of mother as a fulltime caregiver is not the way it's generally been. In tribal societies, any lactating mother might care for a nursing child, and a slightly older child would generally be in the care of an older sibling or elderly relative while the mother worked, often either gathering food or preparing it, sometimes quite a distance away.

We don't live that way anymore, clearly. Still, I don't agree with the idea that to raise your child, you must spend all of your time with him. The mother in the original post was planning a very, very part-time job, and even that was unacceptable to you?

I believe that children can be truly happy and thrive even if they spend time in the care of someone besides their mother. If you believed this, what would that mean to you, and to the choices you've made? Are you happy with the life you've chosen, or are you not happy staying at home fulltime and so trying to justify that unhappiness to yourself by believing that any other choice would harm your child?


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#82 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 11:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Faith
I just have a feeling this isn't going to come out right, but I will try...

I would like to thank everyone who took what I said in my OP at face value and didn't get all upset.

I admit I am confused. I have learned a *lot* here at MDC about tolerance and respect... maybe I have more to learn...

Seriously, why is it okay when a lot of us here get upset to see a friend not even try BFing, just because she didn't feel like it... But not okay for us to feel upset when a SAHM 'quits' and gets another job? I honestly don't understand that. We all agree BFing is best if at all possible, so why not SAH, if that is at all possible? Honestly, I don't understand that. Surely no one is out there argueing for formula and daycares..? We say "whatever works best for your family" or "be true to yourself" but we don't really mean it, or we would believe formula, CIO, circumcision, spanking, yelling, endless hours in a play pen, etc, would be wonderful as the family was doing the best for them and being true...
Do you see what I am saying, even if you don't agree?

Also, there is nothing wrong with my feelings from my OP. I don't go into 'working mothers' and tell them they are wrong... so I think it's rather innapropriate for non-SAHMs to come here to my SAHM thread IF they can't be supportive. I'm sure a WOHM who was the only WOHM in her area wouldn't like for me to crash her thread and be all negative.

Anyway, I just don't agree that someone can mother/raise their child if they are not with their child. It just doesn't happen like that. You simply can't care for a person you are not with. I don't think for a second that if I handed my baby off right now to someone else and went out, that I would be caring for him/mothering him/raising him/whatever when I was gone. I'm not there to comfort him, to feed him, to change him, to hold him, to know his cues like only a mommy can. That is just a fact. I don't see how that point can even be argued, but it seems like some of you are trying. Sure, I am still his mother when I am gone, but I am not *mothering* him when I am gone. I see a huge difference.

In all sencerity, none of this is meant to offend. I am just trying to explain my feelings and thoughts. I am not anti-WOHMs. My awesome MW is one, my aunt (who I love more than my own mom) worked by choice from six weeks old with both her DC, etc. But I am still allowed to have my opinion that SAH is best for DC, just like AP and BF... I wasn't attacking anyone's opinion- just society's attitude in general- about we SAHMs needing to be "more," as if there is anything that could be "more" than raising my wonderful DC.


nak-

i have not read all the threads. but i understand what you are trying to say here. i think alot of people agree with the concept of staying at home, or we would not have so many sahms.

studies were done that show the number of women leaving the worforce to stay at home with a child is on the rise. most of the mothers i know have left the worforce to stay with their baby. times are changing.

i personallly could care less if a mom works. i am more concerned with other things like why are over 50% of boys still being circ?
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#83 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 11:41 AM
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"Mothering will never get the respect it deserves until all mothers learn to respect one another. It's a plain and simple fact."- Laura
I do not respect all mothers. Or fathers. Uncles, aunts, grandparents, sisters, brothers. Simply because someone has a child/got pregnant/adopted doesn't earn my respect. I don't respect all animals because they have offspring, either. Procreation doesn't make someone respect worthy.

There are many mothers who harm children and I do not respect those mothers. The mothers who follow Ezzo, spank, wash with soap, hot sauce, etc., no I do not respect those mothers. There is no nobility in whitewashing abuse so that all mothers are respected upon birthing/adopting. Children aren't respected in that equation either.

I'm not aiming to be respected. That is a waste of time and typically, lip service with no power (read: money) behind it. I am working (with money and time) toward a better system (in the US) for mothers (as Mothering Mag has talked about here and elsewhere).

Frankly, this bit about 'it's none of your business' gets old. A lot of griping about no 'village' to support moms and take the kids off her hands but not wanting any of the loss of privacy and intrusion that is a natural part of the village. If the village doesn't like your style of parenting or thinks that you aren't mothering in the right way, then you are going to hear about it. Don't want the up-for-comment life? Then don't romanticize the village.

I'm thrilled that it is more common to go it alone in terms of parenting. I never would want the village style, much too limiting and opressive for me. I'm glad to have solitude, privacy and yes, lots of time with my kids and no expectation to nurse or care for other kids in the neighborhood or extended family. I want to parent differently than extended family and the natural village in my world. Thank ghord I can without too much suffering. Living in Zimbabwe and having my one year old go to another mama to live if I were pregnant with another child - no thanks. But that's how it's done. Or in parts of Africa where hitting children is expected, normal, natural. No thanks. I'd much rather leave the community, parent alone. When moms or anyone else doesn't respect me, it makes no difference in my mothering or life vision. I see 'respect' for moms - have a Happy Mother's Day, get a special food rub, a box of chocolates, flowers for 'all her hard work' and doing The Most Important Job in the World. Feh.
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#84 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 12:02 PM
 
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Asherah You managed to say everything I wanted to say (but couldn't in my pain-med addled, angry mind!) so perfectly. I could not agree with you more. I think MDC has become one of the last places I go where I am actually expected to use my "appropriate mama" label. I belong to a local Mothers and More chapter and we are actually able to have discussions on respecting the work of all mamas without it mattering in the slightest who in the group is a sahm, wohm, wahm, blah, blah, blah. It is a breath of fresh air to be in a place where it could not matter less.

Faith, I cannot even be angry at you anymore. You have just hit a new level of ugliness, patheticness, and bigotry in what you said and I now officially feel sorry for you. I sincerely hope that your world is able to continue on the way that you want it to so that you do not one day face the judgement that you so happily heap on others.

Such a waste.

"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." -Isaac Asimov read.gif

 
 
 
 

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#85 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 12:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dar
Breastfeeding and stay at home mothering are not equivalent issues at all.

Dar
I totally agree. Good point.

And Asherah, you rock.
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#86 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 01:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by asherah

I am a mother. Period....

I think this whole SAHM/WOHM dichotomy is false.. and does nothing but divide. The emphasis on it ensures that MOTHERwork.. women's work.. will never get the respect it deserves.


Maybe we could focus on how important parenting is, period. Regardless of what combination of parenting and working a family relies on. I think that only then will parenting have a chance of getting the respect it deserves for being the challenging and critically important work that it is.

It really is not about whether a mother works for a paycheck or not. Women have always worked and mothered at the same time. Women did, and probably still do in many places, make their families clothes, make the cloth for clothes, make the yarn, can the food, work the fields, feed the animals, and sell the food and other goods they produce at market. They and their children worked, and many likely still do around the world, as servants for those wealthier than they. Many worked as slaves, and many still do. Many were wet nurses who left their own kids in someone else's care to nurse the babes of wealthy women. It's not new. What is new is the modern economy where so many women go off to offices or factories or stores to work, where often women don't have extended family and friends to help with child care, and where mothers are criticized whether they stay home full time or work outside the home.
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#87 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ashera, settle down. I am not anything like you said. I am not even upset. Why would I be?




If anything, I feel sorry for people in this thread who don't even realize what they are missing by not being there for their DC, and who can only respond by getting incredibly mean when others don't agree with them.

Just breathe... It's okay... You don't have to be so angry that not everyone is like you. Sure I had a small vent in the OP, but some of you are jumping up and down! Some of you seem pretty mad for such 'open-minded' people...

I will leave you to your rants...
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#88 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 04:44 PM
 
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Faith, you can't change what you don't acknowledge. You won't acknowledge how condescending you are in your posts. It is like everyword you type, you add a swift backhand to it. You are extriemly closed minded and hurtful. It is actually mothers like you who are dividing our sisterhood with your attitude.
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#89 of 89 Old 11-27-2004, 06:32 PM
 
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I'm closing this thread for administrative review.
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