You tell me why I should continue being an ap parent... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 10:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BabyOsMommy
I just wanted to tell you from someone who's been at the end of her rope with a high needs baby (who's now a toddler, but has calmed some since just after a year, fortunately for everyone) not to discount your needs. Being an attached parent should not mean that you lose yourself entirely for the sake of your child. That's not good for anyone anyhow.
This was just so nicely said. I want to second it. On an airplane, the flight attendants instruct you that you put on your own oxygen mask before you put on your child's. I would even go further and say that if you are neglecting your own needs, I seriously doubt that you can be there (or "attached") to your child. You must be able to sustain yourself at the same time that you are caring for your child.

The other thing that "attached" or any good parenting is NOT is automatically labeling something as "bad" if it makes your child cry. Some of the things that my child has cried about over the years include: 1) having to stay in his carseat on the L.A. freeway, when we were unable to get to an exit for over an hour; 2) not being allowed to drink my coffee; and 3) not being allowed to play with my chef's knives. Yeah, I realize I'm being kind of silly, but I am quite sure that all of us have "allowed" our children to cry because it was necessary to keep them safe or the thing that was making them cry was good for them (e.g. not drinking the coffee is a good thing, not the crying itself).

Karla
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#62 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by StillForest
((( Kimberley))),

My DD was also high need as an infant. I haven't had time to read all the responses but just wanted to share what saved us during that period of time: network chiropractic care. Many premature babies and those who had many interventions during/post-birth (like my DD, unfortunately) have serious sleep issues. Chiropractic totally changed our lives---DD started sleeping better after the first visit. Network chiropractic is a very gentle form of body work that uses gentle gestures to ease patterns of held tension out of the body. My daughter gradually became a totally different baby. I can't say enough about how this helped us. I was totally desperate from lack of sleep till we met our chiropractor.

I hope that things get better for you soon!
Yes, thank god (or whoever) for pediatric chiropatics! Baylor started at 10 months. He went from crying 24/7 for no reason to only crying 1/2 the day- a major improvment if you ask me!
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#63 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Belleweather
You could also try the Bach Flower Essences Rescue Remedy, if Benedryl either doesn't work or gets your panties in a knot.

Yep, tried bachs for months... nothing. Also, have tried valerian...nothing?!?! I'm telling you- he is a force to be reckond with!
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#64 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 10:38 PM
 
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just to put it in perspective, ds (4) takes benedryl every day for allergy probs & excema (& please, this is not the thread for biting my head off for following dr's orders on this one... we've tried many things, inc elim of dairy, he's had no vax, etc.
i have not turned my back on western medicine, tho' i'm happy to say oscillococcinum has just kicked my flu in the ass. i'm not thrilled to give it to him daily, but he suffers a lot & it's better than daily *prednisone*.) the boy has not dropped dead yet.

the context it was used in was vs driving-off-the-road type exhaustion. lack of sleep can trigger psychotic episodes (my theory is andrea yates may never have commited her terrible deeds if she had gotten a good night's sleep.) sleep deprivation is serious, deadly business & i think most of us realize that no one is suggesting a return to the days of yore, when babies died from overdoses of 'soothing syrup' (laudanum). we are intelligent grownups; i give the bulk of us credit for knowing better (on the other hand, i am kind of glad we are talking about it rather than just laughing it off. i just don't think it should be demonized.)

if you have never been in a position to consider that 'the baby's nose is *sort of* runny, isn't it? oh PLEASE god let him sleep for 3 hours straight, where's the dimetapp', well, bless your heart, but i don't think someone here admitting to doing it in desperation necessarily needs an admonishment. personally, i think the yates kids would rather have had benedryl. (this is all just supposition, of course, & i have no actual idea. but i would be interested in knowing just how much sleep the poor woman got before 'going crazy', if you kwim.)

anyways, eda, i hope you feel better. sear's 'fussy baby' (as the 'high needs' book was called back then) got me thru some rough times way back when (i have since had one more, but cut a break with the baby. whew!) you know, i felt better knowing *he* (dr sears) couldn't stand the sound of a screaming baby, either. thusly is the AP movement born <g> (yes, i know, i was reading 'mothering' even before that. ) you know in your heart these babies don't just 'cio', don't you? they've got some energy, these high-needs babies! more than i do, anyway. your baby is the way he is, no matter what ezzo's opinion is.

it's a balancing act, to be sure; meeting their needs respectfully while setting bounderies & keeping *yourself* sane. do your best to make yourself take some time & get some rest. i second darylll's babysitter idea.

there is no perfect ap ideal and i do a lot better when i keep that in mind. what works for us?

good luck. suse

ps sorry this is so disjointed; this is one of those 'make dinner, type, dandle baby, pee, type, stir dinner' etc posts.
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#65 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 11:02 PM
 
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Sounds like it's not working....especially the night nursing and co-sleeping. So, do something different. Doesn't sound "worth it" to continue that way. You can still be an attached parent and get some sleep. Lots of "AP Mommas" here practice Dr. Gordon's guidlines for nightweaning, or the NCSS...which has the same goal. If I were you, I would do what worked to restore rest and sanity to you and your son, don't worry about whether it's AP. How is it good for him to have such a tired, unhappy mommy? Even Dr. Sears will tell you: Cosleeping doesn't work out for everyone...If it isn't working, don't do it. Although some disagree, I consider a toddler who is waking several times a night to be a sign that it is "not working." I hope you do something different for yourself. You sound at your wits end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
Okay, I've been awake since 3am. Again. It's been like this, really since he was born. I went with ap parenting because it seemed to me to be the kindest form of parenting. Child-led. Which, at the time (pre-child), seemed to fit into our personalities anyway. We co-sleep. We nurse and fought to do so as Bay was a preemie and in the hospital for a month at birth and on oxygen, etc.). We don't spank. We don't "talk down too" or "yell". I am a sahm. Baylor is a high needs baby and has been since day 1. He has gotten better, but night is a big issue. I'm working on a week of nursing all freakin' night and I'm freakin' tired as I've not really slept since he was born. He's 22 months folks. I've been thrown off of main stream boards because I'm such an ap advocate. I mean when is the big freakin' pay off here? I'm beginning to think that unless Baylor grows up to be president or something it will not pay off at all and he'll be lucky if I have a grain of sanity left by the time he finally has to get off me and go to school or something. My only source of support is this board, I would like to think. And, for ME, it's really NO support at all. No one seems to want to hear or understand my issues. I get a few web-hugs per post and not much more. I'm sooooo grateful for those mama's who DO reply with advice and please don't think I'm not. But, in general, I feel like Mothering isn't here for me. I'm not a poplular girl at this site. I'm the one doing cartwheels in the outfield or something. I think maybe many of you fear me because ap IS NOT WORKING for our child, for us, and that idea isn't acceptable here. Now I fear my son is to old to be trained or taught any other lessons and I'm destined to die from exhaustion or something. For me this board is usually a slap in the face due to my "shortcomings" as a mother or something. Tell me why I should stay. Tell me why AP should work for us.
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#66 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 11:14 PM
 
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You probably need to stop being "quite" so AP. Sleep is a huge necessity. You wouldn't eat gross junk food all day, would you? Well it's just as bad to let yourself get sleep deprived. Sleep deprivation and exhaustion are the leading causes of child abuse. I know someone who was paralyzed from the waist down due to a car accident caused by a sleep deprived person. So why expect yourself to parent while sleep deprived?

If co sleeping is making you sleep deprived, stop doing it. If nursing on demand is killing you, don't do it. You can be AP in plenty of other ways. You're not a slave or a milk machine-- you're a human being. You have to know your limits, and not let those limits get violated.

here are some hugs!

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#67 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 11:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by suseyblue
j
sleep deprivation is serious, deadly business
yes! It is just as dangerous as driving drunk. People have no idea how serious it is.

(tho I don't agree with you about the yates case-- she is schizophrenic, well rested or not)
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#68 of 102 Old 02-01-2005, 11:52 PM
 
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Oh, I forgot two more little techniques made a huge difference.

1. From Pantley's NCSS, I learned the technique of putting my finger under the baby's chin while nursing, and then gradually, gently disengaging everywhere our bodies touched, until finally, it was just my nipple and my finger under her chin. Then I took the other hand and gently unlatched, with my finger still under her chin. Then, finally, I released the chin. The babies both usually sleep through this.

2. Then, I move to the bottom of the bed and sleep sideways so that the smell of my milk won't wake the baby and make her want to nurse more.

3. When dh is in bed, I ask him to put his hands flat on the baby's back before I start the unlatching process.

My babies have almost never unlatched on their own in the middle of the night.

Good luck.
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#69 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 06:05 AM
 
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My first thought is there is no answer to why ap should work for you. AP is not about rules, about cosleeping, about staying at home, breastfeeding. AP is about loving your child and treating them as a human being, about giving your child what they need and being there for them through all of their emotions and problems. At least to me. And in this regard you seem to not be failing. It seems to be working for you.

I am not sure from your OP how AP is not working for you. Babies have different personalities and needs, that has nothing to do with being AP or not. Is the problem that he wakes to nurse a lot? Causing you to get little sleep?

Do you nap with him? Is his nursing a habit or a need? Once this is figured out, you could find answers to this problem. There are a lot of threads in Nighttime Parenting about this very thing.

You definitely need to take care of yourself. Sleep is important. Is is possible to nap in the evenings while you DP plays with your son for a few hours, or possibly get a mother's helper a few hours a week to sleep. Or some family member or close friend you can go to for some time off every once in awhile.

The pay off? Well, different again to different people. I do not care about a pay off in terms of achievement. I just hope my son is a well adjusted person who respects other human beings, is smart, does not see violence as a solution, a person who can foster deep meaningful relationships, trust others and himself and respect the world around him. I think AP and gentle parenting fosters these things.

I do not think people fear you, some people just do not know what to say. Others have no advice. Others might not be able to say what they want to say. Some boards are slow sometimes and not every post gets the attention it deserves. I do not think it has anything to do with being "unpopular." Or AP not working for you--as I do not get this from this post...All I see is that you need some more sleep and to figure out a nighttime solution, not that AP has failed you. Although I think there are many people here who do not practice every single aspect for the natural parenting (not to be equated with AP b/c as it has been said just b/c you do not do every single thing does not mean you are NOT AP).

One day your son will start to sleep better, that's no consolation to you now. But it will happen. In the meantime, you need to be there for him. But you also need to be there for yourself.

And you should stay to learn and grow. Thats why I stay. I wish I did not circ my son, I wish I had a nonmedicated homebirth..but you know what? I did not...and I learned that I can do these things from this board. Stay b/c you want to find solutions and alternatives. Stay because tthe advice is wonderful. There are many moms here who have parenting problems, you are not alone.


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#70 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 11:15 AM
 
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[Quote] We have good hours and bad hours( I can't even say good days and bad days because it is hour to hour). [Quote]

Inthesnow: It is a relief to hear someone else say this for a change. I totally agree with you!
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#71 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 01:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by candiland
AP is "child led", not "child controlled". Can I kiss you through the internet, Chalupamom?
You certainly may! MWAH back at you!
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#72 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 01:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Foobar
Ah, yes, the "Mommy makes me happy so Daddy better get the hell away" syndrome.
Oh boy, we deal w/ this one big-time. DD almost always wakes up about when I'm getting ready for bed, and starts howling. If I haven't brushed my teeth, dh goes in to her. She howls worse. And when I do go in, it's "Daddy UP!" as she pushes him out of the bed. So he slinks off...

However, the last two nights he's gone in & she's just fallen asleep on him. Amazing! I think it's b/c we've really been trying to night-wean, which has not been a smooth process. But here's what we've been doing (btw, dd is about the same age as your ds, Kimberley):
A couple of weeks ago we started having a bunch of nights where she was waking up 4x/night & wanting to nurse down on BOTH sides. I have a hard time falling asleep when she's nursing now, so it meant 15-30 min of me being awake too, several times/night. At some point I got worn out and said "time to sleep, we'll nurse again when it's light out." No go--I hadn't given her any warning this would happen, and it's not a good idea to spring changes like this on a toddler in the middle of the night! So I made up my mind that on my next long wkd (which was this last wkd, Fri - Sun) I was going to try to night-wean.

So last Thursday morning I told her that we could always nurse during the day, but we were going to nurse at bedtime and then we wouldn't nurse again until the sun came up. The first time she woke Thurs night she cried a lot (20 min?) but fell asleep on top of me. Since then (until last night, which was another story & we fell off the wagon) she's been waking up 2ce/night, trying to nurse, crying a minute when I tell her we don't nurse at night but we'll nurse in the morning, and then falling asleep on top of me. Last night didn't work--but I think there was something else going on & she didn't even fall asleep again after she nursed. Ugg.

Your ds sounds like he's much higher-needs than my dd, so I'm sure you're thinking "It'll never be that easy." And you're probably right--you know your child best! But I'm sure you can make something work--figure out ahead of time & plan for it, though. Try to get your dh to take over for a few nights. Sleep on the couch or the guest bed or whatever, and put in ear-plugs so you won't hear the crying so clearly. I know I have a hard time asking my dh to take over at night--he's a SAHD, and I feel like he's with her all day so night-time is MY turn...but in the long run I know it's not really helping things. (DD won't nap for him anymore, and hasn't since about 16 months.)

But the key is a) to make sure you & your dh are on the same page, and b) tell your ds ahead of time (and more than once) what's going to happen.

I'm not sure I'm telling you anything you haven't tried, and that other mamas have told you. I hope things get better for you soon...
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#73 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I cannot believe so many people finally replied to one of my posts! Thanks to all of you. I'm blessed to have heard from each of you. And a big thanks to Lisa (pioneermama) for taking such time out of her personal life to help a cyber-stranger like myself. If what "goes around comes around" you will be in for a pleasant surprise someday!

We went to Waldorf Class yesterday and as luck would have it the teacher was absent (sick). So, us mama's took it upon ourselves to have class anyway. It turned out to be just what I needed. I really didn't share much with them but just listened to THEM tell their stories of woe, etc. And it helped me so much. Last night Bay awoke only twice to nurse and I slept pretty soundly inbetween (thank you thank you lucky stars!). I did have a shot-o-whiskey myself right before bed. May sound wrong. I don't even drink but a glass of wine a week usually.... but I think it took my edge off. Don't worry, will not make it a habit I'm still weepy and tired. but I know that being the parent I am will, in the end, lend to a well adjusted boy. And, someday, I hope to be a well adjusted woman! I did try to not nurse him last night. I tried to explain that he could "susu" whenever during the day but at night the "susu's" would sleep. He cried and begged and pleaded and actaully begged "please mommy... susu so nice and good please mommy". And I couldn't deny him. What kind of monster would I have been. I felt so bad even making him say that to begin with...
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#74 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by edamommy
He cried and begged and pleaded and actaully begged "please mommy... susu so nice and good please mommy". And I couldn't deny him.

Yes, I'm familiar w/ that! "Nuss PEEESE! NO mei mei sleep!" And like you, that's when I broke down...after all, we nurse when she's upset about other things, it seems kind of inconsistent to say we don't do it when she's upset at night! So hard to be consistent...

I do think talking to him ahead of time will help--mention it during the day, and then during his pre-bed bath, and at the beginning of the bedtime rituals when you're reviewing what happened during the day & what you'll do tomorrow. Maybe you won't see results immediately, but eventually.

And good for you for finding a Waldorf group. You'll probably find some like-minded people there!
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#75 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nate



I do think talking to him ahead of time will help--mention it during the day, and then during his pre-bed bath, and at the beginning of the bedtime rituals when you're reviewing what happened during the day & what you'll do tomorrow. Maybe you won't see results immediately, but eventually.
And maybe if you can help him pick out a night lovey to hold onto when the susu's are sleeping.... That might help too!
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#76 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 05:28 PM
 
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I'm so glad to hear you finally got some rest. It's so hard isn't it? They just instinctually know how to break your heart into a million little pieces and even how to make you not mind that it's been broken! May your night's be more restful from here on in!
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#77 of 102 Old 02-02-2005, 06:02 PM
 
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has anyone mentioned cranial-sacral work? similar to chiropractic work but more energy based and extremely gentle.
did wonders for my baby.

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#78 of 102 Old 02-03-2005, 07:06 PM
 
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I hear you. One of mine didnt much appreciate all the touchy feeliness of the AP lifestyle.
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#79 of 102 Old 02-03-2005, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkOnDemand
The OP said she was doing the book AP thing, and offering benadryl doesn't fit that mold at all.
sorry to drag this up again, but just reading this now....this is from askdrsears.com:

"Another "off-label" use of Benadryl is sedation. Most parents (myself included) will admit to using it on occasion to help the kids fall asleep."

so, whatever else one can say about it, it seems that benadryl as sleep aid is, in fact, a book AP thing.
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#80 of 102 Old 02-06-2005, 11:25 AM
 
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I've never used Bendadryl, but I do administer the Baby Motrin relatively liberally, even though I'm never completely certain that what's bothering DS is pain. If it seems like it might be teething that's keeping him up at night, out comes the Baby Motrin. At least for my DS, relieving his teething pain makes all the difference about whether he will sleep.

Am I refusing him the opportunity to cope with pain, which is a normal part of life? Maybe. But as an adult, Ithe second I feel my period coming on, I dive for the Advil. I would feel like a hypocrite not offering him the same opportunity. . And I think sleepless, irritable nights are a sign that he is not coping well with the pain.
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#81 of 102 Old 02-06-2005, 11:38 AM
 
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hypatia-
i'm not going to address the whole argument of helping him deal w/ pain.
what is more disturbing to me is the routine use of motrin, for reasons you don't even know. there have been countless studies showing the damaging effects of motrin on adults, let alone children. it really messes w/ their system. your kid doesn't have a chance from the get go to develop a strong system if you are adament about pill popping.
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#82 of 102 Old 02-06-2005, 12:42 PM
 
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Teething pain is tough because one is never sure what is causing the fussiness/lack of sleep. I can't really blame somebody for administering painkillers if they are not sure. What are they to do- get an MRI of the kid's head to see if there's gum inflammation before using a painkiller?

Plenty of babies don't like cold chew toys or ambesol (and that natural alternative to ambesol stuff is disgusting tasting.)

Any study that shows damage from OTC drugs tends to focus on those who use them every day, or most days. These studies are not looking at people who take a half dose once a month.

But I'm not sure why I'm arguing this. People are either against off label use of OTC drugs, or OK with it. I don't think either side's feelings are "rational", but they are based on general feelings towards medicine, drugs, pharmaceutical companies, "the man", etc.
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#83 of 102 Old 02-06-2005, 12:52 PM
 
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Hey Edamommy-

If you are still reading with all the non-sequitors,

Icame across something on the nightime parenting section than I realized i hadn't seenmentioned. Have you tried giving your son magnesium before bed?

Magnesium relaxes muscles and calms. this is especially true in people eho are deficienct, but many people are. Plus, children's multis don't generally have minerals in them.

For dosage and more info- check out the sleep section.
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#84 of 102 Old 02-07-2005, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
So, my quandry is how do I night wean him without enduring the crying.... which he does at the drop of a freaking hat?
Just curious, does he take a pacifier? That has helped to save my sanity at times, so I thought I'd ask. .
btw, I can't imagine constant crying for as long as you endured, you have my admiration (for not losing your marbles). Your son is blessed to have you as a mama.
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#85 of 102 Old 02-07-2005, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Baylor has been sleeping like a dream. I got the idea from another Mothering thread that he may have a magnesium deficiency (or other minerals) and have been giving him trace amounts of magnesium before bed... ahhhh ... the boy is sleeping like a dream. Waking only around 5am for a long nursing marathon (normally he never nurses more then 5 minutes at a sitting...off and on off and on).

btw- he doesn't take a pacifier. I despise them! :
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#86 of 102 Old 02-07-2005, 10:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy

btw- he doesn't take a pacifier. I despise them! :
So glad to hear he's sleeping well!

Hehe, I have a love/hate relationship with pacis... I hate the idea of them, the look of them, the possible attachment BUT they keep dd from screaming in the car and they allow me to leave the room for more than five minutes (shower!!!) I literally cried when dd took her first binky w/ no problem (at around 4 months), but have discovered they have their place at times
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#87 of 102 Old 02-07-2005, 12:15 PM
 
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nak

kimberley- in what form did you give your dc magnesium?
glad it worked!!!
that reminds me that i need to start taking them agian!!!
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#88 of 102 Old 02-07-2005, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mona
nak

kimberley- in what form did you give your dc magnesium?
glad it worked!!!
that reminds me that i need to start taking them agian!!!
It's Hylands Homeopathic tabs.
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#89 of 102 Old 02-07-2005, 02:38 PM
 
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Glad to hear things are improving!!!!!!!
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#90 of 102 Old 02-09-2005, 02:09 AM
 
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Hi edamommy,

know this is kinda old but just wanted to say that I finally got to a point when I realized feeling like failure was preferable to disliking/resenting my child.

sleep has been a real issue for me too - especially with my second now that i don't have any nighttime help and it seems as if one or the other is keeping me up for a considerable part of *every* night.

when i get sleep things look a lot better to me - in fact I'm such a better mommy I don't feel like such a failure! I mean if you're exhausted it gets pretty hard to be the patient loving parent we all want to be - so you're bound to feel like a failure. The exhaustion thing creates this negative spiral I think. Not being very clear but - am really tired

so my failure was that I didn't nightwean real gentle. i read so many wonderful posts - people writing little books that they read over and over with their toddlers, you know - all the patience and creativity in the world kind of stuff. I just simply needed to be done and didn't have the energy or whatever I needed to DO that. And we're okay. I wish it had been gentle and she had gone along with my idea but she hated it and hated any cut back in nursing. I nightweaned her at about 2 1/2. It was ugly. She cried. I cried. I yelled. I was not ap wonderful mama at all. But when I finallly got some sleep I tell you I was a different person. Mind you - she wasn't sleeping through the night or anything but the difference was I felt rested. Big difference.

So I guess I'm saying that even if you have to "compromise" your ap standards on this issue it might be worth it ... because becoming an exhaustion monster will definitely make you compromise your ap standards.

Here's to some sleep for you ...

Eve
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