Killing Frogs - Page 9 - Mothering Forums
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#241 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 03:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Flor
Well, of course!That was not the point. The point was that you have to repeat things many times before a toddler understands.
Yes yes yes. Toddlers must be told many times what we want them to do and not to do. On this we all agree, I think.

But I think this isn't just a question of *quantity* of responses, but also *quality*. This distinction is what I see missing in your posts, and what bothers me.

The "no" a parent gives to a child would (I hope) be qualitatively different than the "no" a parent gives to a child who just killed an animal.

I know that my 2yo dc can tell the difference between the response he gets, say, when he throws his food on the floor and the response he gets when he throws a metal toy truck in our face. He gets that one act is taken more seriously than the other--and he modifies his behavior accordingly. He throws food pretty regularly; throwing metal things in our face, not so much.

There is merit to taking a look at the situation from a toddler's POV, of course; but this doesn't mean that we oversimplify matters and downplay the seriousness of the act.
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#242 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 11:12 AM
 
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OnThe Fence.

I think it will all be fine since you are obviously concerned about the behavior and your son's psychologist is aware of the situation. You also said you have frogs everywhere where you live. He sees them all the time and has more opportunity. Not saying I condone it, but I think he is fine.

This is a strange thread to me and I am sorry you have read such hurtful comments. This thread is high on the frog love and low on the people love.
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#243 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 01:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by armonia
This is a strange thread to me and I am sorry you have read such hurtful comments. This thread is high on the frog love and low on the people love.
Very well stated, I noticed that coming in late too.

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#244 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 02:13 PM
 
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BUT Kaydee... many of us here on MDC don't even use the word "no".... so we can't really comprehend what you are talking about.
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#245 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 03:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Moss's Mommy
BUT Kaydee... many of us here on MDC don't even use the word "no".... so we can't really comprehend what you are talking about.
:LOL good one!

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#246 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 03:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Moss's Mommy
BUT Kaydee... many of us here on MDC don't even use the word "no".... so we can't really comprehend what you are talking about.
Substitute your own GD or redirection phrase then or say it in pig latin or whatever works for your family.

Miss the point much? : (or did I miss some humor? )

ETA: I think most of us are here because we love children. Many of us also, however, love other animals, as well. It's possible to care for both human children AND nonhuman animals, believe it or not!

As I said in a PP, I think despite the contentiousness of this thread, the OP has gotten some good advice and feedback.
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#247 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 03:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by armonia
This is a strange thread to me and I am sorry you have read such hurtful comments. This thread is high on the frog love and low on the people love.
:

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#248 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 03:36 PM
 
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I just don't think that no matter how strongly I react to something that a toddler remembers that reaction months later.
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#249 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 05:28 PM
 
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kaydee.... I think we all agree on what you are saying... well, except for the "no" part...tee. hee.
and I'm pretty sure she's practiced that, taking it seriously, and I'm pretty sure she loves animals too.
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#250 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 05:57 PM
 
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Moss's Mommy- I thought you were being funny before with the "no" stuff, now am I the one who missed something? I still think it was funny :LOL .

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#251 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 08:04 PM
 
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no, I was being seriouse... really. Am I at the right website for this stuff?
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#252 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 08:13 PM
 
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Peppermint,

Those who don't use the word "No" to there children are usually TCS parents. http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tcs/FAQ/ Its not for every one but we do have a number of parents here who practice it. I cant imagine life without the N word

Seriously?
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#253 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 08:22 PM
 
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I've never really studied TCS, but I guess you could say that that's it in a nutshell. It just makes sense to me to not say it.... there's always a larger explanation than just saying no.... and if they hear no all the time, it gets a little bit repetitive... and annoying, I'm sure. Mine would do the exact opposite if I said no to him. It's kind of a let down.
I read Dr. Sear's books, and I think they discourage it too, but mainly it just seems common sense to me. Most parents that try to incorporate AP into their parenting style would agree with me I think, well I know.
If my son were to flatten a frog like a pancake (i love how you described this, btw, writers in your family?????) and I were to say NO, he'd prolly do it again, and would be mad at me and rebel. If you hear no too much, you'd be desensitized to it.
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#254 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 08:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Moss's Mommy
If my son were to flatten a frog like a pancake (i love how you described this, btw, writers in your family?????) and I were to say NO, he'd prolly do it again, and would be mad at me and rebel. If you hear no too much, you'd be desensitized to it.


The *best* way for me to ensure that dd will do something again is to say "No."
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#255 of 256 Old 06-02-2005, 08:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Moss's Mommy
no, I was being seriouse... really. Am I at the right website for this stuff?

Hey now, I am rather toward the TCS end of the spectrum here(I know, I know- TCS is not a "spectrum" thing :LOL), and know a fair bit about it myself, I also don't use "no" alone a lot or anything like that, though honestly- if I saw my ds flattening a frog like a pancake, that would likely be my first reaction "NO!"

I was laughing at the way you said that we who don't use "no" much would not understand Kaydee's talking about different ways to use the word.

I mean, seriously- just b/c you do your best to not say "no" to your child, and maybe are TCS, do you *seriously* not understand what she was saying?

IMO, unless you were raised TCS, only watch TCS family programming on TV (or don't have one ) have only TCS friends, etc.-- you would normally understand the use of the word, right?

Wether or not using "no" is appropriate was not something I intended to debate, I just am suprised that one would not understand the word just b/c they don't use it much, or try not to.

At least the heat is off of you IOF

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#256 of 256 Old 06-03-2005, 04:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppyqwn
...an egg fell out of the nest. My son came in crying that the kids had killed the baby bird inside. The egg had been smashed and poked at by several of the boys. (It cracked when it hit the ground and I couldn't have saved the bird)
this is soooo ot (well, it kind of works its way back on track :LOL), but recently we had a blue jay attack on our bluebird house, & the boys found the eggs/babies bloodied and on the ground beneath. one was dead, one was still writhing in agony but was hopeless (i put it quickly out of its misery, out of their sight- nothing they needed to see), but one, while still a little pecked, looked intact enough that i put it back in the nest. the parents, bless 'em, took care of it & it survived.

not saying *you* could've fixed the situation by the time you came into it, poppy, but i just wanted to mention that it isn't necessarily hopeless in all cases. in this instance, they were about ready to hatch anyway (and, of course, i could reach the nest.)

and i have no doubt that, had i not been immediately present, out of curiosity my sweet & empathetic 2 & 4 yr olds would have poked them with twigs in all innocence, not really understanding that what they were doing was 'cruel'. (see, i did bring it back on topic!)

suse
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