Kids playing with and wasting food + Meal and snack scheduling discussion - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#181 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:08 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
Annettemarie, the list of snacks you posted was thoughtful but not necessary. No one here asked for a list of appropriate food nor did they need it. We never said we don't know what kind of snacks to serve just that we like to know when the kids are eating them.
Wow. Didn't know there was a list of criteria to post on the thread. The list was in response to the assertion that it was either pudding cups or granola that took hours to bake. I am unsure as to whether or not your post is as a moderator or just as regular person. I don't want to break a rule by arguing with a mod, but your post was hurtful and unwelcoming.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#182 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:12 PM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mamabug I feel like your last post was a blanket dismissal of all we discussed here.

I am not sure what you are advocating.

"Mommy makes the rules?" I'm sorry but that really isn't a very gd statement, especially concerning food. I don't think you meant it to sound as negative as it came across, but it seems to go back to the very beginning of this thread, and the essence of this discussion.

Can your child eat when they say they are hungry, whether or not it's the time you might prefer they eat?

Can your child say to you "I want to fix my own snacks" and count on your help and support?

These are the questions at the heart of this issue.

Saying "my children never go hungry" or "my children are never forced to eat" completely misses the point of food in the context of attachment parenting. I think we are all here with the understanding that nobody is starving their child or shoveling food into their mouth while they kick and scream. Falling back on that "defense" derails the discussion. Of course you are not doing that.

"Not spanking" isn't the definition of GD. It is much more than that. So is this issue more than a question of "not letting kids go hungry".

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
#183 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:13 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am usually a regular person when I post unless I have to post on threads where there is an issue.

I am sorry if you were offended but I was feeling as if you felt the need to enlighten us on the right kinds of food that we could serve, like we didn't know. If I offended you I am sorry, I took your post the wrong way. Tone is so hard to read online.

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#184 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:14 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Nope, as I said, I was trying to include it without singling a mama out, because she seemed to be saying it was either unhealthy quick food or super slow healthy food.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#185 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:18 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
oops double post computer acting up

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#186 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:18 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Mamabug I feel like your last post was a blanket dismissal of all we discussed here.

I am not sure what you are advocating.

"Mommy makes the rules?" I'm sorry but that really isn't a very gd statement, especially concerning food. I don't think you meant it to sound as negative as it came across, but it seems to go back to the very beginning of this thread, and the essence of this discussion.

Can your child eat when they say they are hungry, whether or not it's the time you might prefer they eat?

Can your child say to you "I want to fix my own snacks" and count on your help and support?

These are the questions at the heart of this issue.
heartmama I am sorry you took my post that way, I was a bit miffed when I posted and I guess it came across wrong. See I guess my definition of GD might be different then others. The fact is as the grown up I do make the rules for the most part. 99% of the time those rules are made with every intention of making my child happy but sometimes we as parents have to do things that our children might not like, for instance changing diapers or holding my hand in a busy parking lot. These are rules that I made that really are not negotiable, kwim? That is what I meant about mommy making the rules, does that make more sense?

Everyone makes different rules for their family and just because I might say ask my ds to wait 5 more minutes instead of having veggies out, which btw my kids hate!, that does not mean I am not using GD, at least not imo. I was just getting the vibe that since I sometimes ask my child to wait 5 mintues to eat, or I don't let him eat yet another piece of cheese that day ( constipation issues) that I am less then gentle with him.

I hope that clears things up.

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#187 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:24 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Mamabug I feel like your last post was a blanket dismissal of all we discussed here.

I am not sure what you are advocating.

"Mommy makes the rules?" I'm sorry but that really isn't a very gd statement, especially concerning food. I don't think you meant it to sound as negative as it came across, but it seems to go back to the very beginning of this thread, and the essence of this discussion.
Ok but why? Why especially food? I really think this goes back to some of us are just wondering "what's the big deal?" When it comes to food. I really dont understand why it is OK to keep my children from dumping out the shampoo and conditioner but somehow if it is a food product it is sacred.
It really has not been made any clearer than mud as to why it really matters that children have free access to food when they wouldnt be allowed free access to my credit cards or any number of other things.


And there is NOT only one definition of GD. Mommy does make the rules in some GD homes. It may not be your definition of GD. We are not all painted with the same brush. I am GD and AP and I Do make the rules.
You might not agree and that is OK. But it is uncalled for to say it is "un AP" or "Not GD". There are just as many books on GD which back up the way I do things as that which go further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Saying "my children never go hungry" or "my children are never forced to eat" completely misses the point of food in the context of attachment parenting. I think we are all here with the understanding that nobody is starving their child or shoveling food into their mouth while they kick and scream. Falling back on that "defense" derails the discussion. Of course you are not doing that.

"Not spanking" isn't the definition of GD. It is much more than that. So is this issue more than a question of "not letting kids go hungry".
Again, we all practice our own forms of AP and GD. And I think it is fair to assume that the "point of food" in the context of AP is going to be as different for each family as where each child sleeps, or what carrier they prefer (if any).
Joline
johub is offline  
#188 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:32 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thank you for understanding me Joline

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#189 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:34 PM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I was just getting the vibe that since I sometimes ask my child to wait 5 mintues to eat that I am less then gentle with him.
I don't agree that gd means gently enforcing all the arbitrary rules we might invent. I think it is about much more than how we deliver the message, kwim?

Are you willing to talk about this in more detail? I'd really like to discuss what you mean by "waiting 5 minutes". I think you have come close to the essence of this discussion.

I don't know whether you asking a child to wait is gentle/respectful, until I know whether your child views that as a request, or an order. If your child knows it is their right to eat when they are hungry, and has always known this, and knows that you will not stop them from getting something to eat, then saying "Please wait a few minutes, I'm almost ready" is just a request, and there is nothing ungentle about it. It's like the waiter saying "Just one more minute, I have to get this table's order first". It's just a polite request, nothing more.

On the other hand if your child knows that by saying "Please wait 5 minutes", that at that point, reaching for food will mean having it taken away, or viewed as a "discipline" issue, then that is totally different. That is not a gentle or respectful thought for the child to face. Choosing between hunger and consequences? That is not gentle, and it isn't respectful.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
#190 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:35 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
Thank you for understanding me Joline

Hey here's a paddle! You can jump in my GD boat! :LOL
johub is offline  
#191 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:41 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think Mamabug and myself are perfectly capable of judging how gentle we are with our own children for ourselves. And certainly more knowledgable about how they feel about what we say to them than anybody else could imagine themselves to be.
johub is offline  
#192 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:43 PM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Johub~

Children do not have a biological need to charge credit cards. They do have a biological need to eat.

I am going to ask whether or not this is ap. I have no problem asking those questions. Disagree with me. Challenge me. I want to discuss this

Why would you demand feed an infant, and then make your older child ask permission to eat, and call both attachment parenting?

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
#193 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:46 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes I would be more then happy to discuss this.

When I ask my ds to wait, he usually waits. If he says, but mom I am really hungry now.....I say ok fine, take x, y, or z, things I know will not fill him up and not allow him to eat at least some of his dinner. He does not reach for food if I say, dinner is in five minutes you need to be patient. This gives him time to finish up what he was doing and wash his hands. If dinner is truly not going to be ready in time to satiate his appetite then by all means he can have a small snack to tide him over. In our house we never have consequences for food

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#194 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:50 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why would you demand feed an infant, and then make your older child ask permission to eat, or deny them food when they are hungry, and call that gentle parenting?

Why would you assume that if you demand feed an infant that he is not "asking" to eat in the only language he has?
A child with more language asks in a different way.
I can see no difference.

My newborn cannot crawl into my arms and undo my bra. I help him.
My 2 year old cannot make scrambled eggs. I help him.
So why is one the natural state of affairs but the other not AP.

And as we already discussed, nobody is denying anybody food when they are hungry so that is a moot point.
johub is offline  
#195 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:52 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
I think Mamabug and myself are perfectly capable of judging how gentle we are with our own children for ourselves. And certainly more knowledgable about how they feel about what we say to them than anybody else could imagine themselves to be.
:


My paddle is packed. Which river are we going in!


Honestly I feel like we go around and around on this and this is how I am feeling I am totally comfortable with the decisions I make and honestly while I don't mind discussing them I will never see that it is wrong for my child to at least tell me they are going to get a snack. I like to know how much of what they consume in a day. My kids do help in the kitchen, they do have access to snacks, they do know how to make things for themselves and they don't make messes. I just want to know how much and what they eat throughout the day if for nothing else that I know what kinds of meals to prepare and how much I think they might eat after grazing all day.

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#196 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:54 PM
 
mamawanabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: lorrie in Chicago
Posts: 2,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraSusan
I had a friend who strictly controlled her children's food intake, with specific snack and meal times, and I found it very upsetting. It just seems so wrong to me to force kids to ask for food. And when her children came to my house, they would gobble down every single thing in Laura's tray because they had no idea how to control themselves in the face of unlimited food. Very sad, I think.
See that is what I am talking about. My parents did EVERTHING right re food (they simply were not controlling parents - young hippies), but I certainly would have gobbled down every single thing in Laura's snack tray. That Laura doesn't is due to her nartual tendencies, tendencies you haven't messed up by arbritarily restricting food. That she doesn't isn't due to the way you have approached food with her (except that your approach hasn't messed up her natural tendencies) My natural tendencies would have told me to eat it all.

We are not as powerful, as parents, as we think we are, which is why the means and not the ends is the important part of parenting.
mamawanabe is offline  
#197 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 06:55 PM
 
Altair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
Annettemarie, the list of snacks you posted was thoughtful but not necessary. No one here asked for a list of appropriate food nor did they need it. We never said we don't know what kind of snacks to serve just that we like to know when the kids are eating them.

I thought it was necessary b/c the point came up that if a toddler can easily get to a food, it must be unhealthy. (pudding, granola bars, and fruit snacks).

which couldn't be further from the truth.
Altair is offline  
#198 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:00 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess I took it that johub was taking in general terms, not necessarily her own. But honestly if my child eats too many grapes or cheese we have issues, so if they are eating these things all day long and I am unaware of exactly how many they eat, it could be something that actually makes my child sick, kwim?

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#199 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:04 PM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Johub you keep going back and forth, back and forth *LOL*

If you always help your children eat when they are hungry, that is great! Why are you so defensive here?

Let me ask you something. When someone posts here (and they did) that their child can only eat at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, are you asking me to believe that this child is never, ever hungry outside of those times? Because I don't believe it. If it's true, then let them know they can eat when they want, and continue to serve regular meals. Aha. But then we get close to the issue. The parent *does not want* to let them think they can eat whenever they want. The parent *wants* to control this issue. The parent does not want to believe their child is hungry at any other time, because that is an unpleasant thought, and extinguishes the cues the child may have at other times through years of ignoring or denying or delaying those requests.

Second example. The child wants to make their own food. The parent refuses. The parent locks the cabinets, locks the kitchen door, and forces the child to ask them if they want food. The child does *not* want to ask for food. If they did, they would have in the first place.

Do you think these are respectful, attachment based parenting decisions? I don't.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
#200 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:12 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess I was under the impression that the OPs children were not actually eating the food but PLAYING with it. That is a huge difference imo.

I agree with you not allow your child to eat when hungry is not AP, but I did not get that from what the OP said? What did I overlook? Going to re-read since this thread has taken a different course...........

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#201 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:14 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Johub you keep going back and forth, back and forth *LOL*

If you always help your children eat when they are hungry, that is great! Why are you so defensive here?

Let me ask you something. When someone posts here (and they did) that their child can only eat at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, are you asking me to believe that this child is never, ever hungry outside of those times? Because I don't believe it. If it's true, then let them know they can eat when they want, and continue to serve regular meals. Aha. But then we get close to the issue. The parent *does not want* to let them think they can eat whenever they want. The parent *wants* to control this issue. The parent does not want to believe their child is hungry at any other time, because that is an unpleasant thought, and extinguishes the cues the child may have at other times through years of ignoring or denying or delaying those requests.
Aaaah well I just must have missed THAT post. Because I was under the very strong impression that you were telling me that my children just had to be hungry if I fed them 5x a day. In addition I was under the impression that you told ME that I was being very controlling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Second example. The child wants to make their own food. The parent refuses. The parent locks the cabinets, locks the kitchen door, and forces the child to ask them if they want food. The child does *not* want to ask for food. If they did, they would have in the first place.

Do you think these are respectful, attachment based parenting decisions? I don't.
I imagine not. HOwever I did not see a single post on this thread which described the above scenarios.
I may have missed some in the middle.
If there were such posts I would have imagined you would have quoted THEM instead of mine and Mamabug's.
johub is offline  
#202 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:14 PM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
mamabug~ again, I am not sure that what you are doing looks very different than what I am doing. However your comments seem directed at disagreeing with suggestings that limiting food and feeding by the clock isn't gentle parenting. So there must be something here you are trying to defend but I am not clear what it is.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
#203 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:18 PM
 
MamaBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Neverland
Posts: 9,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree it seems we do the same thing as each other. I guess that even though I myself do not lock my cabinets I see nothing wrong with doing so. If my cabinets are were locked but any time my child asked for food I gave it, I see nothing wrong with this. And I guess that was my issue, ppl were getting all nuts that the OP wanted to use locks, to make sure her kids didn't waste food, and I agree 100% with her. Now if she were locking her cabinets to make sure the children could not eat except when she felt they should, well that is a totally different issue. Does that make more sense?

We may not have it all together, but together we have it all
MamaBug is offline  
#204 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:18 PM
 
Altair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaBug
I guess I took it that johub was taking in general terms, not necessarily her own. But honestly if my child eats too many grapes or cheese we have issues, so if they are eating these things all day long and I am unaware of exactly how many they eat, it could be something that actually makes my child sick, kwim?

but we're talking about ice cube tray sized portions, not the entire bag of grapes. a toddler can have a tray out of food that s/he can easily reach/eat. a slightly older child could have a certain shelf of pre-cut foods. a school aged child will be learning about good indepedent food choices.

i think one thing being argued here is that if a toddler/preschool child gets to choose and graze amoungst appropriate foods, it makes teaching a school aged child how to cook and eat healthy foods a little easier. of course there's a million reasons why any one particular child wouldn't eat right... but GD is about prevention through teaching positive behaviors (IMO!), and this is one way of teaching.



Altair is offline  
#205 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:20 PM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Johub~my second example was based on the OP. That is exactly what she said she planned to do.

My first example was originally based on a post made, I think, on page 7, by the mom who said what I described. However shortly after I questioned her, you came in with the post which I quoted earlier, seeming to agree that you also fed only 3 meals and two snacks, and you seemed to suggest this was best so children learn food is not always available to them. Later you clarified what you meant, saying that it was only junk foods (packaged foods) you were trying to avoid, and that in fact you were trying hard to prepare fresh foods whenever they were hungry, and it so happened that they were content with your routine, but if they should ask for a snack at, say, 11am, you would help them it.

However it took two pages for you to clarify that, and at this point, I am not sure why you seem to disagree with the idea that children should be fed when they are hungry. Since you do this, what are you disagreeing with here?

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
#206 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:20 PM
 
UUMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i was actually going to post a "Wow! Great list, AnnetteMarie! I never it saw it the first time".

Can I still say that? (At any rate, I just printed it out).

When i read the list, I thought it could be helpful to this thread in various ways. I mean, the who discussion started because the OP said her children pulled out a tub of ice cream, scoooping it out with their hands, therefore making a mess of themselves and the floor, not to mention wasting all that ice cream.

Perhaps a tray of various foods like AM posted could keep things under control a bit more. Even if the OP's children might not stop at the little array of food before getting into the freezer, some other children might.

The list could potentially save a parent from a mess and waste.
UUMom is offline  
#207 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:22 PM
 
LauraSusan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
See that is what I am talking about. My parents did EVERTHING right re food (they simply were not controlling parents - young hippies), but I certainly would have gobbled down every single thing in Laura's snack tray. That Laura doesn't is due to her nartual tendencies, tendencies you haven't messed up by arbritarily restricting food. That she doesn't isn't due to the way you have approached food with her (except that your approach hasn't messed up her natural tendencies) My natural tendencies would have told me to eat it all.

We are not as powerful, as parents, as we think we are, which is why the means and not the ends is the important part of parenting.

You know, I think I see your point here. I remember feeding a very dear friend's little daughter when she was only about eight or nine months old. My friend had made a fairly big bowl of mashed yams, and I was feeding the baby, while her mama did the dishes and cleaned up the kitchen. Without even thinking about it, I just kept feeding her, and feeding her. I put the yams on the spoon, and if she opened her mouth, I popped them in.

My daughter would always indicate to me when she was done by turning her head, and then later, by making her "all done" baby sign.

So imagine my surprise when I heard my friend yelping "you didn't feed her the whole thing, did you?"

Gosh. Turns out this little girl would just eat until she vomited. She didn't have an "off" switch. She would just gobble down every single thing in front of her. As far as I know, she was demand fed as a baby, and weaned at about eighteen months, and her mama is very AP and GD.

Still, though, while my friend controls the size of her daughter's portions, she does not control what time she eats, or how often. She could never leave a full tray of snacks, because her daughter would just eat them all. But if her little girls wants a snack, she gets a snack. There is no "it's 9:30, time for your snack" kind of scheduling.

So I see what you mean, mamawanabe, but I think responding to the instinct to eat what is in front of you is different from controlled feeding. Does that make sense? In one case, you are responding to your child, and in the other sense, you are doing something for your convenience that doesn't respect the child's need for free access to food.
LauraSusan is offline  
#208 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:31 PM
 
UUMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Only one person went 'crazy' and used the word abuse. the rest of us said locking up for saefty reasons was not so terrible.

I really do think that children having to ask for food could be a problem. Children should be able to eat food on their own, and to perhaps prepare it.

I am not saying all 3 yr olds can do this. But certainly a 5 yr old can. Setting up a home in a such a way that children can be competant and secure is paramount, imo, to children feeling connected and a part of a family. Having to ask each time a basic need has to met is controlling on the part of a parent. How does that control benefit the child's development into a thinking human being? What is it like to grow up having to ask for food whenever one is hungry?

A 5 yr old child should be able to access food as easily as he can access the bathroom.

Can you imagine if a child had to ask, in his own home, if he could please pee?

Even if i had a toddler who got into problems in the bathroom, I mightput a little hook lock on the door, but i would set a stepping stool near the lock for the 5 yr old.
UUMom is offline  
#209 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 07:54 PM
 
johub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Johub~my second example was based on the OP. That is exactly what she said she planned to do.
It may have been a similar solution but it was not the problem. Apparently you read "my children were not hungry but they trashed the kitchen anyway and ate ice cream with their hands" as being "my children were hungry and did not want to ask me for a snack so they were trying to make a nice snack and accidentally trashed the kitchen and ate ice cream with their hands"


Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
My first example was originally based on a post made, I think, on page 7, by the mom who said what I described. However shortly after I questioned her, you came in with the post which I quoted earlier, seeming to agree that you also fed only 3 meals and two snacks, and you seemed to suggest this was best so children learn food is not always available to them. Later you clarified what you meant, saying that it was only junk foods (packaged foods) you were trying to avoid, and that in fact you were trying hard to prepare fresh foods whenever they were hungry, and it so happened that they were content with your routine, but if they should ask for a snack at, say, 11am, you would help them it.

However it took two pages for you to clarify that, and at this point, I am not sure why you seem to disagree with the idea that children should be fed when they are hungry. Since you do this, what are you disagreeing with here?
What I am disagreeing with is your disparaging attitude to the moms posting on this thread.
If one mom says "I'm the mom and I make the rules" you say something to the extent of "that's not GD" or "enforcing all the arbitrary rules we might invent . . ." Which is obviously not what the poster had said.

And so we have a lot of really lovely women on this thread sharing some very useful ideas. However it does become somewhat difficult to share useful gentle ideas when every sentance we state is going to be expounded upon to make us sound like atilla the hun.
I should not have to "clarify" that I do not refuse my children food if they are hungry. Since I never implied such a thing it ought to be taken as a given.

The mom who said she asked her child to wait 5 minutes also should not have to "clarify" that she is doing so in a kind and respectful manner. It ought to be taken as a given unless or until she states otherwise.

I am not really sure why you are choosing to take everybody's statements and twist them so that they lose their original meaning and taking on a more sinister meaning. And really it should not matter.
I do however find it difficult to sit by and watch other moms try to defend themselves against this type of attack. And although I bowed out of this argument pages and pages ago, I suppose I returned to "go back and forth" for the mundane and pointless reason to defend the statements of myself and others which have been misused in this way.
Joline
johub is offline  
#210 of 432 Old 08-13-2005, 08:41 PM
 
UUMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The OP is no longer here, not responding, and so this thread has evolved in something greater, with more ideas and questions about whether we should control our children's acess to the kitchen and to food, no matter what time it might be.

Asking that question is not sinister.

Some of think it is wrong to ask our children to eat on our schedules.

It does not make one evil to insist on this, but it does tell children that what they need and what adults wish them to need are different things. And since the adult wins, the child learns his needs are less, or that his needs are wrong.

If a child is hungry, but a parent tells that child to 'wait'--for 5 minutes or 30, the parent is telling the child his signals are wrong.

People are even finding fault with suggestions to offer the child a carrot or some bread bread as they wait . I cannot see how that degree of control (and I strive not to control my children at all) is emotionally or physically healthy.

I do not think it is appropriate for cildren to always have to ask adults for food. And i think it is wrong for adults to deny children all food even if dinner is in 15 minutes. We can accomodate that if we think outside the box.
UUMom is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off