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Mixed veggie/meat household and kids have questions

835 views 19 replies 11 participants last post by  kavamamakava 
#1 ·
How would you handle this? (I put this in TAO because I couldn't figure out where it would fit. It's parenting and eating all rolled into one)

I was raised a vegetarian and have always been one. We decided to raise our children vegetarian but my husband eats meat. We don't have meat in the home and we don't order meat for the children when we are out of the home. But my husband will order meat at restaurants and sometimes will bring home food from work, for himself, that has meat in it.

My son, who will be 5 next month, has recently become fixated on identifying those who eat meat and those who don't. I try to be matter of fact with him about it and not say anything judgemental either way. I just try to stay neutral and honest. I tell him that meat comes from animals like cows and chickens and pigs and that you have to kill them for food. I think he started paying attention to the meat/no meat thing after watching Charlotte's Web and seeing how Wilbur didn't want to die.

So he has started telling his daddy that he eats meat on an almost daily basis. I don't think that's a big deal. It's like noticing that some people have dark hair and some have light and some have blue eyes and some have brown. But that's not how my husband takes it. He feels like it's a judgement on his son's part and even though he doesn't say anything, Skanda picks up on that. I think that might be why he is focusing on it.

Today he told me he was bored so I suggested he go next door to see if his friends wanted to come over and play. He said they weren't his friends because they ate meat. I reminded him that they could play at our house and they don't have to eat anything while they are playing. I was a bit taken aback that he would say something like that. I don't know how or why this has suddenly become important to him. I also reiterated that there are all sorts of people who eat and do all sorts of things and it's alright if people do different things.

So I sat with him for a bit and we played with some of his toys. After a little while he goes,
"Can you be my no meat daddy?"
I reminded him that I'm his mommy and he has a daddy. But he said he wants a no-meat daddy.
 
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#2 ·
That's a really difficult situation! I don't have any experience, so I can't offer much advice... but what came to mind is, have you asked him why he wants a "no meat daddy"? Maybe, if he explains how he feels, it'll give you a clue on how to handle it.

Good luck!
 
#3 ·
Although I cannot address your predicament exactly, I will say I think it's normal at this age to start sorting people this way based on some characteristic. AND I think it's common for them to be expanding their sense of empathy. So, it seems pretty natural that in a veg household, this empathy would extend to animals. It's kind of the goal, right? I have no idea how to handle this with your hubby. Good luck!
 
#4 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kirei
That's a really difficult situation! I don't have any experience, so I can't offer much advice... but what came to mind is, have you asked him why he wants a "no meat daddy"? Maybe, if he explains how he feels, it'll give you a clue on how to handle it.

Good luck!
Yeah. I asked him why and he just grunted. That usually means he doesn't want to talk about it.
 
#5 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by mama_mojo
Although I cannot address your predicament exactly, I will say I think it's normal at this age to start sorting people this way based on some characteristic. AND I think it's common for them to be expanding their sense of empathy. So, it seems pretty natural that in a veg household, this empathy would extend to animals. It's kind of the goal, right? I have no idea how to handle this with your hubby. Good luck!
Well, I was raised a vegetarian for religious reasons and continue to remain a vegetarian for health reasons. Empathy and desires to be non-violent are really just secondary.
My son plays pretend sword fights and builds lego structures that "kill" the bad guys so I don't think he believes all killing to be really horrible. He also makes sure to do some magic gesture whenever he pretends to kill stuff so it's all better when the game is over. I haven't heard him talking in particular about how he doesn't want to kill things. He squished a bug tonight and I told him I was sad it was dead and he said he likes to squish bugs

I've told him that when we pick plants for food, that is killing them too.

I dunno. I just couldn't find the right words to keep the whole topic neutral. I really just want to be matter of fact about it and share what I do and let him make his own choices later. My husband agrees that raising the children vegetarian is a good and healthy option. But he also enjoys meat and feels strange about not sharing it with his kids. He HAS shared it before and they either refused to taste it or took a bite and spit it out because they thought it tasted horrid.
 
#6 ·
It would be nice if your husband could give him a short explanation on why he thinks its ok to eat meat. Something like "I believe that animals are either meat eaters or not meat eaters and that humans are meat eaters. Eating meat is part of the circle of life that is part of nature." or whatever. (this is what my BIL told his kids).

And then for you to sit down and dicuss how it is very important not to be prejudiced against people for their views and that it is not nice to exclude people based on whether they eat meat or not.

Emphasize in all of this that you dh will always respect your son's choice not to eat meat.
 
#7 ·
We are vegetarians, and my parents are meat eaters and this has been something ds has fixated on before. He has lectured my mom on how bad meat is after seeing a dead rabbit in our yard. She felt attacked, but I thought it was not a big deal because he is a four year old figuring out the world around him. He now is better about understanding that people make food eating choices, but he does get concerned about some of his friends. At preschool, the food is vegetarian, and when he visits his friends houses they fix veggie for him. He thinks his friends are veggies, too, but most are not. Currently, he has lost interest in the subject most of the time, and does not hassle his grammy about meat too much.

I do not think your dc are intentionally trying to hurt your dh, he is probably just trying to figure out the differences. You could point out it is like having preferences for other things than your friends. You might also point out some commonalities because even though you have differences that make you distictly who you are, you also have a lot of stuff in common that make you enjoy each other presence.
 
#8 ·
dh and i are vegetarians in an all meat-eating extended family. my son is 6 1/2 and for quite awhile asks who is a meat eater and why we aren't. at his age he fully understands our reasons - but he continues to ask to completely process it. i have a 2 1/2 year old too.

my parents and family and friends think its funny to constantly offer us meat and ask if we want the chicken soup etc. it doesn't bother dh and i. my oldest ds is very picky so he never asks to try new foods so meat hasn't been an issue.

my 2 year old however is a great eater and loves to try new things. so - once my mom was cutting a big ole salami and he asks for a piece. i say my usual "its yukky" and my mom cuts a piece and pops it in his mouth!!! i just about sh+t i was so pissed. anyway - to make a long story sorta shorter - i started questioning whether i had a right to insist my children be meat-eaters. i will with my youngest - because he doesn't know better but i sat my oldest down, explained why dh and i are veggies again - then told him if he ever wanted to try meat he can and we would love him no matter what.

so - one day at lunch they had pancake and sausage day. he said he tried the sausage and LOVED it! he said he wants me to buy it. i explained that although he ate it i wouldn't buy it for our house because daddy and i have chosen to not eat it.

later that day he said he wishes that the sausage was vegetarian and that he wants to stay vegetarian with us.

now - what will happen later i don't know. this was something i dreaded the day i found out i was pregnant - the whole "what will i do when my child eats meat" and i am glad it has happened and it wasn't as bad as i thought.

i have no idea if ihelped you at all - i hope i did alittle!
 
#9 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by maya44
It would be nice if your husband could give him a short explanation on why he thinks its ok to eat meat. Something like "I believe that animals are either meat eaters or not meat eaters and that humans are meat eaters. Eating meat is part of the circle of life that is part of nature." or whatever. (this is what my BIL told his kids).

And then for you to sit down and dicuss how it is very important not to be prejudiced against people for their views and that it is not nice to exclude people based on whether they eat meat or not.

Emphasize in all of this that you dh will always respect your son's choice not to eat meat.
Thanks Maya

Dimitrius gets all weird about it and feels defensive and isn't so good at talking about it so I tend to provide all the info. I tell Skanda that some people eat meat and some don't. I told him that meat has nutrition to make your body grow just like other food does but I don't like to eat it because it's made from animals and you have to kill them to make them into meat. And daddy, and lots of other people eat it because they like the way it tastes and have been eating it all their life. I also pointed out that dogs eat meat and cats eat meat and bears eat fish. He sometimes pretends to be a bear fishing and eating fish.
I also tell him that daddy likes to eat hot sauce on his food and Skanda doesn't. And Skanda doesn't like onions and daddy loves them...stuff like that.

Yeah it was the prejudice thing that struck me. I tried to explain that people who eat different types of foods can be friends just like daddy eats meat and I don't. And I eat onions and Skanda doesn't. He's not very patient for sitting still for deep thoughts and talks on things. He tends to say something and run off.
 
#10 ·
Thanks, Melissa. I'll just keep repeating that to D. That Skanda is exploring differences and not making judgments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by melissa17s
We are vegetarians, and my parents are meat eaters and this has been something ds has fixated on before. He has lectured my mom on how bad meat is after seeing a dead rabbit in our yard. She felt attacked, but I thought it was not a big deal because he is a four year old figuring out the world around him. He now is better about understanding that people make food eating choices, but he does get concerned about some of his friends. At preschool, the food is vegetarian, and when he visits his friends houses they fix veggie for him. He thinks his friends are veggies, too, but most are not. Currently, he has lost interest in the subject most of the time, and does not hassle his grammy about meat too much.

I do not think your dc are intentionally trying to hurt your dh, he is probably just trying to figure out the differences. You could point out it is like having preferences for other things than your friends. You might also point out some commonalities because even though you have differences that make you distictly who you are, you also have a lot of stuff in common that make you enjoy each other presence.
 
#11 ·
Lorena, we had an incident which I think is part of the reason for his anxiety. He was across the street and the neighbor handed out hot dogs. I didn't notice right away and when I did, I told the kids the hot dogs weren't veggie hot dogs but made out of animals. At the very least, I thought they would end up sick from eating meat since they've never had it and won't have the enzymes in their digestive system to process it. Also, I wanted them to make the conscious choice to eat meat, not eat it by default.
So I pulled the hot dog out of the bun and offered to let them feed it to the dog. Nadia thought it was a great idea since she remembered that dog's eat meat. Skanda got upset and wouldn't do it. But then I bought them veggie dogs the next day and he was over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcmrymoon
dh and i are vegetarians in an all meat-eating extended family. my son is 6 1/2 and for quite awhile asks who is a meat eater and why we aren't. at his age he fully understands our reasons - but he continues to ask to completely process it. i have a 2 1/2 year old too.

my parents and family and friends think its funny to constantly offer us meat and ask if we want the chicken soup etc. it doesn't bother dh and i. my oldest ds is very picky so he never asks to try new foods so meat hasn't been an issue.

my 2 year old however is a great eater and loves to try new things. so - once my mom was cutting a big ole salami and he asks for a piece. i say my usual "its yukky" and my mom cuts a piece and pops it in his mouth!!! i just about sh+t i was so pissed. anyway - to make a long story sorta shorter - i started questioning whether i had a right to insist my children be meat-eaters. i will with my youngest - because he doesn't know better but i sat my oldest down, explained why dh and i are veggies again - then told him if he ever wanted to try meat he can and we would love him no matter what.

so - one day at lunch they had pancake and sausage day. he said he tried the sausage and LOVED it! he said he wants me to buy it. i explained that although he ate it i wouldn't buy it for our house because daddy and i have chosen to not eat it.

later that day he said he wishes that the sausage was vegetarian and that he wants to stay vegetarian with us.

now - what will happen later i don't know. this was something i dreaded the day i found out i was pregnant - the whole "what will i do when my child eats meat" and i am glad it has happened and it wasn't as bad as i thought.

i have no idea if ihelped you at all - i hope i did alittle!
 
#12 ·
Haven't had a chance to read everything... But I'm a vegan and would find it EXTREMELY painful to watch someone in my immediate family eat meat or to know that they do so. I could not be married to a non-vegan. Maybe your son feels more like I do about this than how you do? I think his desire for your husband to become vegetarian is a valid one. That your husband is not is a moral shortcoming in his eyes, so of course he wants his father to change. Do they talk about it?

My younger sister was sensitive in similar ways, though it was about things like recycling and (in the case of my grandparents) smoking. Me and my older sister, on the other hand, thought less of our parents for not recycling (they still don't!), but we just accepted that this is how they were and didn't try to change them or insist that they change. For what it's worth, I think that my younger sister had better relationships with them than we did and that's why it mattered so much to her. She's since stopped caring and . . . her relationships with them are now crud. I'm not sure this is a coincidence. It's very hard for some people to not be very upset when loved ones violate their deepest ethical beliefs.

More directly related: my grandma had a fur coat. My sister figured out what it was and was SO devastated about it. How could her loving grandma want such an atrocious item?!? "Grandma... don't you know that lots of animals had to die for that coat!?" said with tears and genuine upset. As far as I'm aware, my Grandma can't bear to wear the coat any more. Sister's response to it left a real impression on her.

How would your husband feel if you or your son were doing something that he thought was morally abominable? Of course your son is going to judge his actions if he is doing someting that your son finds unacceptable. Not everyone is or perhaps even can be as laid back about whether their closest loved ones live up to the ideals that they take to be most important and basic. It's not at all uncommon for vegetarians to seek out like-minded people and limit their contact with others because the use of animal products (especially from "factory farms") is so painful for them to deal with, and b/c they think less of those who continue to use these products despite being informed about their origin.

Do you live in a community in which you could arrange vegetarian playdates for your son?
 
#13 ·
: this topic is very interesting to me as well- I'm loving seeing all the thoughts- we have not run into this yet with DD, but am filing away all the reactions for future reference! Good luck!
 
#14 ·
Like Dal said, it really sounds like your son has decided it's "wrong" to eat meat and it's upsetting for him to reconcile this "wrong" behavior with someone he loves and respects so much.

What to do? I don't know. You could try to convince him eating meat isn't wrong; you could try to develop cultural relativity and explain how what's "wrong" in some cultures is "right" in others, and it's not our place to judge; you could convince your husband not to eat meat so your son feels better about him; you could explain how some people do things that are wrong but can still be good people-
 
#16 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kavamamakava
Do you think a 4 year old makes judgments from a set of morals formed independently and differently from his own family?
I think kids usually have different sets of morals from their parents, even if they have no social outlets outside of their families, because their perspectives are very different. They have had different experiences than everyone else in their family (even if you were there too), their developmental level makes some forms of thought more difficult, and their own personalities come into play.
 
#17 ·
I say this only as an observation, not as a judgement.
In reading this thread, this statement popped out:

Quote:
I told him that meat has nutrition to make your body grow just like other food does but I don't like to eat it because it's made from animals and you have to kill them to make them into meat.
Maybe your son reads your emotion behind that and views that as a moral statement? and therefore views what his father is doing as wrong?
 
#18 ·
My eldest is vegetarian by choice, and tends to be somewhat intolerant of meat-eaters (and smokers- and people who don't recycle- or who leave the lights on. You get the picture.) He actively likes watching Hugh Fearnly Whittingstall on tv, who's a british smallholder and food writer and believes, in a nutshell, that it is natural for humans to eat animals but the only possible thing that could make it morally acceptable is good animal husbandry so that the animals lead truly happy lives- you may not agree with him but it illustrates that it is possible to care for animals yet also eat them. www.rivercottage.net
And to answer your other question, I didn't really see my boys creating a sense of morality for themselves until 6 or so- but yes, they have their own honour code which is different to mine.
 
#19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by srain
I think kids usually have different sets of morals from their parents, even if they have no social outlets outside of their families, because their perspectives are very different. They have had different experiences than everyone else in their family (even if you were there too), their developmental level makes some forms of thought more difficult, and their own personalities come into play.
Thanks, srain. I just didn't realize that a 4 year would have developed a moral code. It seems a bit young for me.
 
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