Have you ever given your child a sedative on a flight? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 90 Old 04-27-2006, 09:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rhiandmoi
Star of Bethlehem (one of the components of Rescue Remedy) is considered poisonous especially to small animals and children. I would not give it to any child.
Do you have a link for this? Also, do you know the amounts? Because I wonder how much of that particular essence is in the 2 sprays (equal to less than 1cc)...

Benadryl, on the other hand, has been known to cause
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General: Urticaria, drug rash, anaphylactic shock, photosensitivity, excessive perspiration, chills, dryness of mouth, nose, and throat.

Cardiovascular System: Hypotension, headache, palpitations, tachycardia, extrasystoles

Hematologic System: Hemolytic anemia, thrombocytopenia, agranulocytosis
Nervous System: Sedation, sleepiness, dizziness, disturbed coordination, fatigue, confusion, restlessness, excitation, nervousness, tremor, irritability, insomnia, euphoria, paresthesia, blurred vision, diplopia, vertigo, tinnitus, acute labyrinthitis, neuritis, convulsions

GI System: Epigastric distress, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation

GU System: Urinary frequency, difficult urination, urinary retention, early menses
Respiratory System: Thickening of bronchial secretions, tightness of chest and wheezing, nasal stuffiness
for adults and children alike. (I bolded my faves)

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/dihydram_ad.htm
Yeah....I'll stick with my bach flowers, thanks.

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#62 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 01:42 AM
 
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sorry for popping in the end of the thread without time to read the whole thing... benadryl, eh. my ds is supposed to take it (or something like it) every day for various autoimmune crap (not saying I DO- just saying i'm 'supposed to', & that he certainly gets it when he needs it. no big whoop, no noticable side effects. i thought you guys were talking about dosing babies with laudanum or something.)

here's my dilemma. my 5 yr old ds has developed this terrible fear somehow of flying (he has 4 times, but in utero, so uh, he didn't get to make the choice and wasn't much bothered that i could tell.) fil wants to take everyone to fla on a plane, & ds is making it adamantly clear he doesn't want to go because of sheer terror. (he's been weirdly afraid of other stuff, like swings, & wasn't ever forced to, & now wonders why he was afraid, because it's so fun. he lost years of swinging and is a bit sadabout that. and he gets the analogy. he is able to comprehend conquering fear, he's not an infant.)

i'm getting some flak from fil ('oh, we'll talk about it later' when he means we should bully him into it, when i know my ds, & he would be screaming & needing 4 people to subdue him, they wouldn't BRING him on a plane like that.)

it is coming time to buy the tix, & i don't know what to do. driving just me & him & meeting them there is an option, but a) it is a LONG way, i drive it every few months as it is & would prefer to skip it if i had an actual choice like free air tickets, & b), the way the drivers are on 75, it is taking our lives in our hands everytime i go down there as it is. it is insane, dozens of near-misses that only quick responses and alertness can avoid (and after 18 hours- which with small children is necessary, gas & stops- my alertness is getting a little ragged. 90 mph for 800 miles- eesh.) i'm not unwilling to drive, & he is begging me to, but i don't want to contemplate possible death unnecessarily when two hours on a plane, IF he could deal with it, would get us there safely.

i have to admit, i'm wondering if there is a safe child-size dose of valium (or something, geez, i don't drug kids, i don't know what 'safe'ish drugs they use to chill kids out when they need to, & surely sometimes they need to?). i am flummoxed (and would just opt out if it was just a lousy vacation with my fil, except that my dd lives down there & driving or flying is the only way her brothers can get to see her. we all miss each other v much & i don't want them to grow up & forget her.)

i knew you guys would have some ideas, & i need to either tell fil never mind OUR tickets, let dh take the baby, & i'll go get the car tuned up, sigh, or think of SOMETHING. it could be a little special trip with just me & the boy, right? urg. if anyone has any 'descarify' ideas beyond the cognitive therapy dh & i use to deal with our own rampant phobias (except i am agoraphobic, so i go out regularly. dh is afraid of insects, so he forces himself to go outside for short times & not run away screaming. how do i apply this to flying? we showed him movies 'the big airplane', etc, we've talked, we can pretend to board, we have discussed what it is that frightens him in depth, & NO GO) could use them about now.

if this was a different board i could jokingly ask about now if they make child-size xanax, but i am going to get flamed by some for even THINKING about coercing that poor child on a plane (never mind that even my most crunchy granola liberal relatives- except for dh, he's with me- think i am coddling him by considering driving him rather than make him go against his wishes.) sigh.

best case scenario, my ds decides to tough it out & decides it's not so bad (i told my fil a big plane without turbulence, none of this commuter flight bs because he's deciding to get cheap for boy's first flight) sans drugs. how do i get from here to there? (worst case, we die in a fiery car crash like the three accidents i saw on my last drive home! you see why xanax doesn't sound so crazy?) does anyone think i ought to ask one of those dreadful allopathic drs for their advice? (shannon or blessed, are ya around?)

help! i don't want a scared boy, or a drugged boy, or a boy that doesn't get to see the sister who loves him more than anyone in the world! WHAT in the HELL should i do? if i make no decision soon, fil buys the tickets & i will feel massive pressure to just get the poor kid on board (not that i necessarily will, but with tickets bought, oh, you betcha there will be pressure.) ack.
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#63 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 02:57 AM
 
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Wouldn't it be way easier to bring your daughter up to you instead of the whole family down there to her? Could it be possible to take your son to the airport to watch the planes land and take off; read some books about planes; watch some Discovery channel show about planes (er, but not the one called "Flight 122: The Little Plane that Didn't Make It") ...but basically, without saying overtly "this is to make your funny little fear go away" - but instead to see how cool planes are? I dunno. My daughter thought she was going to be scared too, last year, mostly because of the noise at takeoff. It was ok though - we had the agreement that she could bury her head in my shoulder and not watch. But after a few seconds, it was all good.

And, I think you should start a new thread with this as your topic to get new/more diverse responses... I would like to see a poll on this - which is worse, coercive parenting or benedryl parenting?
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#64 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 04:20 AM
 
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If Rescue Remedy works to calm a person, it is psychoactive and therefore a drug.

I am not coming out in favor of benadryl or against things like Rescue Remedy. I think it always comes down to risk versus benefit, whatever you're doing.

I just don't get why some solutions are bad drugs and others are helpful and pure.
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#65 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 11:38 AM
 
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Rescue Rememdy is homeopathic though... it's a whole different way of making remedies.

anna kiss partner to jon radical mama to aleks (8/02) and bastian (5/05)
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#66 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 12:25 PM
 
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Not be offensive, but 'homeopathic' and 'natural' mean very little. You are introducing a foreign composition of chemicals into your child's body. There are plenty of 'natural' remedies on the market that are downright poisonous to children.
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#67 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 12:31 PM
 
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hmmmn, i get what you're saying, fsm (and bringing my dd up won't work- she works, no vacation, & a lot of overtime- new job. just getting to see her while we are there will be tricky.)

we have gone to the airport numerous times, & watched, read, etc (no, not 'the little plane that didn't make it', omg, i'm lmao & feeling SO guilty). so you think i ought to step it up a little? he's pretty bright & is enough like me to dig in his heels if he feels like he is getting pushed. he'll catch on if every day is 'look! aren't airplanes cool, & not scary at all!' day.

as far as making this a new thread, what, just cut & paste & slap it on a new thread? 6 years here hasn't been long enough for me to quite figure out 'the rulez' here (it took me from '96 to '99 to learn how to cut & paste, after i'd already put together my 386 from components. autodidactism can result in some weird educational gaps.) can i do that?

i don't know, is it spinoff-worthy? it is kind of the same subject, just a different angle. and it wouldn't be coercion, it would be brute force requiring strong attendants, a gag & ropes. that kid got his stubborn streak as well as his little chickenheart from his mama (no, i wouldn't say 'chickenheart' to the boy! i just recognize extreme caution when i see it- i live it daily, & it has gotten me safely to the age of 43. ) uh, no, fil, boy is walking on his own legs or not getting on the plane.

btw, i do recognize that swinging is not a perfect analogy, there are some differences between 'moving in a finite arc a few feet from the ground at 5 mph' & 'FLYING in the farking SKY above the clouds at 700 mph in a giant tin can'.

(i could use that xanax myself, honestly. panic attacks in the air are not unknown to me, even if i'm the only one who knows. and no, i don't think it is something ds absorbed from me while pg, stress chemicals from flying; my fear is mostly post 911 & only on rickety deathtrap commuter planes- i had very mellow flights while pg. remember that little plane in maui that fell apart & the stewardess was a hero, tv movie & all that? i had been on it the month before. 'hey, this thing feels like it's falling apart!' 'oh, haha, don't be foolish, all little planes feel like this.' yeah, well.)

and dechen, there is certainly room for debate about the efficacy of homeopathics- i waver, i'm a born skeptic, but have used them occasionally not expecting much more than a placebo. anything as dilute as they make it doesn't even have the same molecules in it anymore. to argue that that's a psychactive drug is just silly.

speaking of which, i am thinking of buying some rescue remedy & telling boy it is medicine to make him not afraid of flying. because that IS the intention i won't feel like i'm lying to him, like i would if i gave him homeopathic cough syrup & told him the same thing, i do my best not to lie. i don't really believe fully in homeopathic explanations, but i don't know for a fact the explanations are incorrect, & have seen enough convincing anecdotal evidence from things like oscillococcinum to give him rescue remedy with a straight face.

if i was going to brew up a tincture from the star of bethlehem growing in my lawn, now then you can talk about psychoactivity.

ps if any therapists have ideas, i'm anxious to hear your opinions too.
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#68 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 12:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannarachel
Not be offensive, but 'homeopathic' and 'natural' mean very little. You are introducing a foreign composition of chemicals into your child's body. There are plenty of 'natural' remedies on the market that are downright poisonous to children.
'homeopathic' & 'natural' are words that have pretty clear definitions, actually. the homeopathic stuff is dilute to placebo point. those 'foreign chemicals' are pretty much stuff like calcium & lactose. my star-of-bethlehem lawn tincture would indeed be 'natural', & anyone who assumes 'natural' = 'safe to ingest' isn't going to live long enough to need to post on mdc. i think most women here are smart enough not to equate 'natural' arsenic with 'natural' organic granola. we have a pretty dedicated group of label-readers here!
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#69 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TigerTail

speaking of which, i am thinking of buying some rescue remedy & telling boy it is medicine to make him not afraid of flying. because that IS the intention i won't feel like i'm lying to him, like i would if i gave him homeopathic cough syrup & told him the same thing, i do my best not to lie. i don't really believe fully in homeopathic explanations, but i don't know for a fact the explanations are incorrect, & have seen enough convincing anecdotal evidence from things like oscillococcinum to give him rescue remedy with a straight face.
.
Well, that's an idea. You could tell him it's a tincture that helps with anxiety? I mean, some people do believe this, and it works for them.

When I talked about showing him all about airplanes, I would leave out the "It's not scary" part. Instead, you might tell him it's perfectly OK to feel afraid, lots of people do; at the same time showing him all about planes. You might give him some behavioral reinforcement - same as what's done with obsessive compulsive issues (errr. how would I know this?!) - give him something else to think/do when he gets worried. Maybe a doll he can hold onto, a mantra, a special truck he likes that is imbued with some special powers?
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#70 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 02:22 PM
 
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bringing his stuffed caillou (yes, i know everyone hates caillou, but i will always love that bald naked kid for giving my boy comfort) & the rescue remedy will probably be my first tentative plan. (i know what he's afraid of, btw, landing & taking off, we've discussed at length. i haven't mentioned to him that those ARE the dangerous parts, sigh. perhaps he just has good instincts.)

thank you anyone who has read through that pile, btw. i'm wordy today.
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#71 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy
Do you have a link for this? Also, do you know the amounts? Because I wonder how much of that particular essence is in the 2 sprays (equal to less than 1cc)...

Benadryl, on the other hand, has been known to cause for adults and children alike. (I bolded my faves)

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/dihydram_ad.htm
Yeah....I'll stick with my bach flowers, thanks.

Kelly
http://www.vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant39.htm

Quote:
SIGNS: Star-of-Bethlehem contains cardiac glycosides in all parts of the plant, with the bulbs containing a higher percentage of the toxin. This is not a commonly reported toxicosis, but it can be severe if encountered and if enough of the bulbs have been consumed. The bulbs may become more readily accessible after plowing, frost heaving or other such activity, thus increasing the risk of toxicosis. The toxic component (and therefore the toxic signs) are very similar to foxglove (Digitalis). The first signs are stomach and intestinal irritation, which is followed by abnormalities in the heart's rate and rhythm, and this can progress to fatal cardiac arrythmias.
I don't know how this tincture is made, how they concentrate the agent, and if they verify the concentration of the agent. It is possible that in the dilute quantities reccomended by the manufacturer this could be safe for children over a certain weight. I would not give it to anyone under 100 pounds personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy
Bach Flower remedies... (Most known brand is Rescue Remedy). They have drops, and a pump mist spray--two pumps into the mouth is all it takes. The one with the alcohol is fine for kids--the amount of alcohol is so minimal. And you can use more than 2 pumps if you need to. Or put more than 2 drops into a glass of juice, etc.

I use it myself, but often need more than the 2 spray dose.

A lot less risky than benadryl or any other meds.
I would definately not increase the reccomended dosage.

Star of Bethlehem also contains calcium oxalate which are sharp crystals that the kidneys have a hard time passing. Repeated consumption can lead to kidney stones.
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#72 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 02:42 PM
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I gave my kid Gravol aka Diphenydramine. Childrens gravol = Chewable and makes them drowsy and also keeps them from becomming airsick if that's a possibility.

(I for one didn't want my toddler barfing everywhere, bonus, she slept)
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#73 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 03:50 PM
 
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Most homeopathic remedies, and flower essences in particular, have been diluted to such a high degree, the original compounds can not be detected in laboratory testing. What is left is the "spiritual essence" of the flower. Generally, there will not be even a single molecule of a particular ingredient in the whole bottle! So, even giving 5x the recommended dose would not result in toxicity. (Although, if you accept homeopathy this would not be a good idea for other reasons.) This is why mainstream medicine considers them nothing but alcohol/water and attribute any effects to placebo effect only.

Not that this is true of all "natural" remedies.


Found this article, but it is talking about homeopathy in general.
http://kcahf.org/content/holistic06.htm
Quote:
most contain no detectable active ingredients
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#74 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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[QUOTE=TigerTail] & anyone who assumes 'natural' = 'safe to ingest' isn't going to live long enough to need to post on mdc. QUOTE]



I'm sorry...I hope I wasn't being offensive.....
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#75 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 07:25 PM
 
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no, i just thought it needed pointing out.
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#76 of 90 Old 04-28-2006, 08:41 PM
 
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It never occured to me people would do that. I find it very unethical.
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#77 of 90 Old 04-29-2006, 01:26 AM
 
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I read somewhere long ago sorry haven't looked for a source that sleeping pills/sedatives were one of the major causes of death in an airplane...not sure if was in connection to alcohol but also keep in mind that sedatives don't sedate everyone they can make certain people hyper or irritable.

also not moving in an airplane can increase anyone's suseptibility to blood clots I lost a good friend 5 years ago to a blood clot in her leg that travelled to her lungs she had hurt her ankle and was on a long flight home from the honeymoon so wasn't moving around.

Me my kids have always been great on flights you just have to prepare.

8 might be enough
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#78 of 90 Old 04-29-2006, 07:52 PM
 
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Overdosing aside (because that mistake could happen ANYtime), I don't think a child's emotional well-being is any less important than his physical well-being. Unless a parent is prepared to say she'd never medicate for a miserable allergy, it doesn't seem reasonable to judge those do so for a miserable emotional experience (strapped in for hours as a toddler qualifies). Obviously, trying other things first is a good idea.

I've never done it for flights, but did for a 2-day drive with a 12-month-old. First step, of course, is avoiding long trips with babies if possible!
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#79 of 90 Old 04-29-2006, 10:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PancakeGoddess
Overdosing aside (because that mistake could happen ANYtime), I don't think a child's emotional well-being is any less important than his physical well-being. Unless a parent is prepared to say she'd never medicate for a miserable allergy, it doesn't seem reasonable to judge those do so for a miserable emotional experience (strapped in for hours as a toddler qualifies).
that's a good point. i was thinking, if i was a phobic adult (which i am, not too far a stretch ), wouldn't i want help to deal with an extraordinarily stressful situation? i'd take a xanax in a heartbeat for a plane trip if i was feeling panicky & had one. to what extent are children allowed to recieve relief from a phobia? granted, without meds would be preferable, but if was an unavoidable trip and it was meds or sheer terror? i realize there are a lot of nfl people here who don't medicate for anything much at all, but it is primarily an ap mag devoted to kindness to children & treating them with decency & respect.

does that inc relatively safe dr-directed medicating for paralyzing short-term fear?

i am really wrestling with this.
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#80 of 90 Old 04-29-2006, 11:46 PM
 
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General: Urticaria, drug rash, anaphylactic shock, photosensitivity, excessive perspiration, chills, dryness of mouth, nose, and throat.

Cardiovascular System: Hypotension, headache, palpitations, tachycardia, extrasystoles

Hematologic System: Hemolytic anemia, thrombocytopenia, agranulocytosis
Nervous System: Sedation, sleepiness, dizziness, disturbed coordination, fatigue, confusion, restlessness, excitation, nervousness, tremor, irritability, insomnia, euphoria, paresthesia, blurred vision, diplopia, vertigo, tinnitus, acute labyrinthitis, neuritis, convulsions

GI System: Epigastric distress, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation

GU System: Urinary frequency, difficult urination, urinary retention, early menses
Respiratory System: Thickening of bronchial secretions, tightness of chest and wheezing, nasal stuffiness
You are a nurse, right? I'm sure like most nurses you've given 100's if not 1000's of doses of Benadryl, PO or IV.
Have you ever had a patient experience anaphylactic shock from receiving a one time appropriate dose of Benadryl?

Lol, also gotta love the 'dryness of mouth, nose and throat' listing. Of course, it's an antihistamine, it's supposed to dry out your mucous membranes.

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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#81 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 08:23 AM
 
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I'm definitley not a phobic or overly protective of my kids, bit I personally don't use meds or give them to my kids unless absolutley necessary.

With all the different reactions that some people can have and others have none I am not ever willing to risk the side effects.

I know many people do all kinds of things in this world and in my line of work I have seen it all. When it comes to kids its best to be cautious. When things go wrong they go down hill very fast.
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#82 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 02:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiandmoi
http://www.vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant39.htm



I don't know how this tincture is made, how they concentrate the agent, and if they verify the concentration of the agent. It is possible that in the dilute quantities reccomended by the manufacturer this could be safe for children over a certain weight. I would not give it to anyone under 100 pounds personally.


I would definately not increase the reccomended dosage.

Star of Bethlehem also contains calcium oxalate which are sharp crystals that the kidneys have a hard time passing. Repeated consumption can lead to kidney stones.
Hate to be a stick in the mud, and with all due respect and seriousness....

Do you have any studies on HUMANS? That was a veterinary web site....talking about cattle eating multiple bulbs...I'm talking about a tincture, that has been severely diluted. Lets keep this relevant.

kelly

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#83 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 04:24 PM
 
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Actually, I would venture to guess that peanut related products induce anaphylaxis more frequently in children than Benadryl.

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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#84 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 06:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lucky One
Actually, I would venture to guess that peanut related products induce anaphylaxis more frequently in children than Benadryl.
Benadryl is the drug of choice for treating allergic and anaphlaxis. It is considered a highly safe drug and is in fact a life saver for those with severe/deadly food and environment allergies (such as myself)
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#85 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 06:58 PM
 
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Actually, epinephrine is the drug of choice for anaphylaxis, but you are right that it is very very rare to be 'allergic' to Benadryl.

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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#86 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 07:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lucky One
Actually, epinephrine is the drug of choice for anaphylaxis, but you are right that it is very very rare to be 'allergic' to Benadryl.
Epinephrine is a short term alpha beta agonist the efficacy of which peaks before five minutes. Without diphenhydramine, the symptoms of the anaphylactic reaction will return, as epinephrine does nothing to block the hyper-senstive histamine reaction
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#87 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 09:42 PM
 
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Epinephrine is a short term alpha beta agonist the efficacy of which peaks before five minutes. Without diphenhydramine, the symptoms of the anaphylactic reaction will return, as epinephrine does nothing to block the hyper-senstive histamine reaction
True. I was just meaning that Epinephrine was the first line drug.

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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#88 of 90 Old 04-30-2006, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by The Lucky One
Actually, epinephrine is the drug of choice for anaphylaxis, but you are right that it is very very rare to be 'allergic' to Benadryl.
Who said it wasn't rare to be allergic? it is.

BUT, it's not rare at all to have undesirable side effects.

Kelly

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#89 of 90 Old 05-01-2006, 03:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy
Hate to be a stick in the mud, and with all due respect and seriousness....

Do you have any studies on HUMANS? That was a veterinary web site....talking about cattle eating multiple bulbs...I'm talking about a tincture, that has been severely diluted. Lets keep this relevant.

kelly
http://www.people.vcu.edu/~urdesai/car.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002581.htm

http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic439.htm

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#90 of 90 Old 05-01-2006, 04:53 PM
 
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Who said it wasn't rare to be allergic?
Thought since you bolded the word anaphylaxis and all......

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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