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#31 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:06 AM
 
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Hi,
I am just wondering the difference in instances of child deaths due to not being a car seat in the Virgin Islands? I don't know the stats for the US or for the Virgin Islands.

Here is my perspective as a mother of four, please don't take this the wrong way. I know that the culture in the Virgin Islands is different than here, but you said that it is the Law for children to be in carseats there as well. I am sure that in some countries it is not the law.

I find that your post is full of excuses for reasons that you are not using car seats: no money, no extra hands, too heavy to carry etc., While I find those to be common problems for ALL mothers regardless of where we are from (maybe not the $$ one, but the others, yes) basically you are feeling that it is worth the risk? What if something happens to your child that could have been prevented with a carseat, the rest of your life you will be thinking that you should have used one.
I used to hold my son on my lap and nurse him in the front seat when he was a newborn - that was 11 years ago and I was young, only 17. I didn't see the problem at that time. Good thing nothing happened to him because now I wonder, WAS I CRAZY?? I didn't want him to cry. That's why I did it. See, we all have our reasons or excuses for not doing things a certain way, but we have to think of our child first.
If it's not safe for them to ride in the car, well then we shouldn't be going anywhere. That is my opinion, but it is also the law. If you can't afford a carseat, find some one to help you, an agency a family member a friends, church, family center, tag sale, make a wanted sign and hang it on your front door. If you cannot carry everything try to find someone willing to go with you and help you, buy less and make more trips, use a sling for the todlder and drag the car seat with a rope. Anything is possible, believe me I have been there and I have done things like that.
Bottom line is that your child's safety should not be comprimised. So what if it makes your life harder, that's the way I feel. I have to buckle and unbuckle two carseats 100 times a day and believe me sometimes I just feel like throwing them out the window but I know that they are safer so I put up with it.
As far as public transportation like the bus, here you do not have to have your child in a carseat either, which has always been odd too me. And if you are in a Safari and it does not have any seat belts, then that really defeats the purpose of a carseat because it would have no way to be strapped in properly. A car seat that is not buckled would obviously just fly away if it were hit.
Isn't there a weight limit or age limit on planes, can't a toddler just sit on their parents lap? Either way I wish you good luck, I hope that some of my ideas make sense to you. I think that people should never say "never"
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#32 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
The man in who was called irresponsible in the other thread was probably living in the states. Maybe it is very hard for him to use a carseat, just like it is hard for me.
Lots of things are hard, especially lots of things about parenting. Installing my kid's carseat into a cab, lugging it through airports, etc. is hard. The alternative is him becoming a projectile and being smashed all over the road, so I'll deal with hard.

IMO, anyone who knows about carseats, can afford them (or has access to free carseat services) and chooses to forego them is negligent, especially as there are so many options to make them more convenient - the Sit 'n' Stroll that mamaduck posted about, the harnesses that attach to seat belts in cabs and fold up neatly into a small backpack carrier that your average 2-year-old could tote around. I can understand not wanting to lug a Britax Wizard and an infant carrier everywhere, but there are other options for those who take public transport and it's our job to know about them.
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#33 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:28 AM
 
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What is it that you want to know? Are you just venting or do you have a question?

DC
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#34 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
Even in the states it is hard for some people to use car seats. It's not just an issue for people who live abroad.

The man in who was called irresponsible in the other thread was probably living in the states. Maybe it is very hard for him to use a carseat, just like it is hard for me.

There are people who take public transportaion in the states. I used to live in Philadelphia, which has lots of taxis and the 3rd largest public transportation system in the US. Many people in Philly do not own a car. They use buses and subways with no car seats. There are no seat belts on Philly buses and trains. I was not aware that taxis had car seats available. I doubt they would have 2 toddler car seats available for me to use, if I lived in the states. Imagine if I went to a store on a bus in Philly and then wanted a ride home, or called a taxi to take me home. I'd have no car seats.

I am not looking for anyone to give me permission to not use car seats. I'm not complaining about how some people think car seats must always be used. I am trying to explain why it is hard for me (and others) to use car seats. Maybe some people had never thought about how people like me live.
I support you and what you are saying.
I have a friend who has a baby with a disability...she lives on a farm. When she drives places,often she has held him. He sits in a lap belt so if he starts to choke(which he does often) she can just lean him forward.
I have nursed my babies, actually taken them out of their carseat and nursed them while my husband drove. It was long trips and we just didn't want to take an extra hour or two on top of our 10 hour trip. Maybe it's selfish. And dangerous. But I believe that comfort and love and yes sometimes convenience outweighs the risk that an accident will happen in those few minutes...
I know I'll get flamed for this. But I don't really care. I just wanted you to know your not the only wakko!!

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#35 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't catch taxis from my home. I catch from from the supermarket. I get to the supermarket on a safari. Remeber I have 2 toddlers.

Can you imagine holding a 2 year old's hand, carrying a 27 pound toddler plus 2 toddler car seats 4 blocks to a bus stop? Then imagine trying to hold all that on a bus. (safaris are even worse) All that to have car seats for the ride home.

I get a free ride to the park every week. I am also getting a ride to the beach next week. The Mom who is driving me has 2 children in car seats. My car seats don't fit in her car.

If I had to pay a taxi to come to my home and take me to the supermarket, park and beach, I just couldn't go very often. I can't afford it. As I already said, maybe my kids would go out once a month.

I expected some people to advise me to stay home. Wait until Dh is home to watch the kids and then go buy food. That makes more sense than saying, "You have to use car seats."
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#36 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
I live in the Virgin Islands. When I am in the states, on vacation I can use car seats. That is only 2 weeks though. Normally, I don't use them.

The problem isn't that I don't have car seats. The problem is I can't use them very often in The Virgin Islands.

I posted this becasue I think some people think, "I would NEVER not use a car seat. All children must be in car seats and if Moms don't use them, they are negligent. PERIOD" and they haven't thought about it like how I am explaining it. I used to live in a yuppish suburb and I used to think the same way. I'm just trying to get people to see another point of view.

I know many people in my same situation and I've never heard of anyone who stays home all the time because they can't use car seats. If HelloKitty were in this situation, and chose to stay home for weeks-at-a-time, until her children were all 4 years old, I would respect that. I'm not going to do it though.
Ok, I read this and see your posts are about venting. You've made the decision not to use seats and listed a multitude of reasons or excuses why you don't. Obviously from a professional standpoint I would disagree with you. Using a car seat is really important. Ultimately YOU have made the decision not to use them and in the end, YOU and your kids will have to live with the consequences. We all take calculated risks everyday. This happens to be one you have decided you want to take. It's a big one. It's a life and death one. I sincerely hope nothing ever happens to any of you. Good luck.

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#37 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
Even in the states it is hard for some people to use car seats. It's not just an issue for people who live abroad.

The man in who was called irresponsible in the other thread was probably living in the states. Maybe it is very hard for him to use a carseat, just like it is hard for me.

There are people who take public transportaion in the states. I used to live in Philadelphia, which has lots of taxis and the 3rd largest public transportation system in the US. Many people in Philly do not own a car. They use buses and subways with no car seats. There are no seat belts on Philly buses and trains. I was not aware that taxis had car seats available. I doubt they would have 2 toddler car seats available for me to use, if I lived in the states. Imagine if I went to a store on a bus in Philly and then wanted a ride home, or called a taxi to take me home. I'd have no car seats.

I am not looking for anyone to give me permission to not use car seats. I'm not complaining about how some people think car seats must always be used. I am trying to explain why it is hard for me (and others) to use car seats. Maybe some people had never thought about how people like me live.
I understand you. 14 years ago when my ds was a baby I lived in Chicago and had no car,needless to say I had no car seat. There were times when I took a cab and he was not restrained in a car seat. I was thinking about how we may leave the house in 1 direction on the subway but come back and use a cab so even the concept of carrying around a car seat would not have worked.

Now I live in Maine and its car land here so dd (who is 10 mos) always is in her carseat but I still remember the old days with ds and reading this thread brought that back to me.

Shay

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#38 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
I expected some people to advise me to stay home. Wait until Dh is home to watch the kids and then go buy food. That makes more sense than saying, "You have to use car seats."
Have you even read the responses? I don't see where anyone told you that you have to use car seats.

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#39 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pinkmilk
I support you and what you are saying.
I have a friend who has a baby with a disability...she lives on a farm. When she drives places,often she has held him. He sits in a lap belt so if he starts to choke(which he does often) she can just lean him forward.
I have nursed my babies, actually taken them out of their carseat and nursed them while my husband drove. It was long trips and we just didn't want to take an extra hour or two on top of our 10 hour trip. Maybe it's selfish. And dangerous. But I believe that comfort and love and yes sometimes convenience outweighs the risk that an accident will happen in those few minutes...
I know I'll get flamed for this. But I don't really care. I just wanted you to know your not the only wakko!!
There is help for your friend if she wants it. Children with disabilities and special healthcare needs deserve every opportunity to ride safe in a vehicle and their parents need access to the support and resources that will help them find out how to do so.
Special Needs Transportation Hotline

The National Center for Safe Transportation of Children with Special Healthcare Needs (part of the Automotive Safety Program of Riley Hospital for Children, Indianapolis, IN) has a nation-wide consultation service: 800-755-0912. Its web site (http://www.preventinjury.org/specNeeds.asp) lists CPS Technicians who have taken the course in Special Needs Transport. The Center also hosts a special needs list-serve. Contact Janell Havey, jhavey@clarion.or

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#40 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pinkmilk
Maybe it's selfish. And dangerous. But I believe that comfort and love and yes sometimes convenience outweighs the risk that an accident will happen in those few minutes...
I understand what you are saying but if your child was flung through a windshield and thrown from the car and killed would you still feel this way? I just don't understand how taking a few minutes to park on the side of the road to nurse is that big a deal - I've done it a million times. Parenting is inconvenient by it's very nature, but it's your responsibility to suck it up and deal sometimes for the safety of your child.

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#41 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by veggiemama4
I find that your post is full of excuses for reasons that you are not using car seats: no money, no extra hands, too heavy to carry etc., While I find those to be common problems for ALL mothers regardless of where we are from (maybe not the $$ one, but the others, yes) basically you are feeling that it is worth the risk? What if something happens to your child that could have been prevented with a carseat, the rest of your life you will be thinking that you should have used one.
Well I live in Israel and before we owned a car we didn't have carseats either. I was lucky because my kids were peanuts and fit in their buckets until 18 months (when we bought the car) but Nechama was slightly too long for it at that point (still under the top, about 3/4 inch though instead of a full inch). It is not always possible to find someone to go with you everywhere. Most of my friends / peers work. I had 2 or 3 kids under 2, the baby rode in teh bucket but the other girls had to ride in seatbelts after the baby was born. It simply was not practical for me to carry 2 convertable car seats, a double stroller, a bucket carseat, and sling the baby. The carseat issue was why we bought a graco stroller for the twins (it holds 2 buckets) but really after Rivka was born there wasn't much I could do. Not to mention trying to properly install the seat in the taxi for a 5 minutes drive. Saying "don't go out" isn't practical either. My kids had to see doctors, I was pregnant and had to see the OBGYN / midwife. Dh couldn't always be home for every appointment. We always take risks with our kids. I often see it suggested "oh when my dc won't nap I go for a ride in my car to get him to fall asleep." How would you (general) feel if G/d forbid that was the time some drunk driver was on the wrong side of the highway and killed your properly strapped in child in his carseat who wasn't out becuase you "had" to be, but becuase it was easier for you to drive him until he felt tired.

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#42 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 10:55 AM
 
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It seems to me that you are more concerned with going places than with the safety of your kids. It is a sad thing and I wish them the best.If that's the kind of parent you choose to be than I am sorry for you.

Maybe you can look inside yourself after reading all these posts and think about prioroties and excuses and what it all means to be a parent. Little children are easily amused, they don't have to go out in cars all the time, they like walks and they like it when people just play with them. If you feel like you have to make so many excuses than maybe the truth is that YOU are the one that is not happy, this is not an issue of car seats at all is it? Plus From your last post it sounded as if your dh has a car...
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#43 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dallaschildren
There is help for your friend if she wants it. Children with disabilities and special healthcare needs deserve every opportunity to ride safe in a vehicle and their parents need access to the support and resources that will help them find out how to do so.
Special Needs Transportation Hotline

The National Center for Safe Transportation of Children with Special Healthcare Needs (part of the Automotive Safety Program of Riley Hospital for Children, Indianapolis, IN) has a nation-wide consultation service: 800-755-0912. Its web site (http://www.preventinjury.org/specNeeds.asp) lists CPS Technicians who have taken the course in Special Needs Transport. The Center also hosts a special needs list-serve. Contact Janell Havey, jhavey@clarion.or

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Thanks Dallaschildren. I will pass on this information to her but I doubt it would do any good. She is of the mindset that..."what worse could happen???My child is sick, completely disabled, unable to talk, move, eat...why would I worry about a car accident...how worse could he get?" And she's very opinionated in a bitchy, richious sort of way!!! And I don't judge her, I just love and support her decisions.

And then there's me of the mindset "I'd rather be unsafe for a few minutes and give my baby what he needs"

And poster who is more convenience driven(which I totally understand)

And then there's most people(I think)...

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#44 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:00 AM
 
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Hi Rachel,
Is it the law there for carseats? I understand that we take risks with our kids, and I understand what it is like to be poor, have crappy cars or no cars. No money etc., but I personally feel that the safety of our children is the priority, and I think that cinnamondmarco sounds like she is just making excuses, she is not trying to find a solution as you were, she is just saying: I don't use carseats and I don't care. Everyone's situation is different and I think that if someone is asking for a soulution it is one thing, but if they are just being defensive on every suggestion than there is a deeper issue.
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#45 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pinkmilk
And then there's me of the mindset "I'd rather be unsafe for a few minutes and give my baby what he needs"
I'm not trying to be snarky, I promise. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say, though, "I'd rather my child be unsafe for a few minutes than be inconvenienced by giving him what he needs?" It's not as though you have to choose between him being unsafe and giving him what he needs. You can pull over and nurse. Yes, it's inconvenient, but it's not the end of the world. Watching your baby go flying through the windshield on the other hand... well, that would be the end of my world.
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#46 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:08 AM
 
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Oh, and here is one solution for those who take taxis - a solution for the over 25 lb. set, anyway:

https://www.safebeginnings.com/WebCo...&cat=On-the-Go
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#47 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:10 AM
 
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I have spent many an hour leaning over the carseat strtching my poor boob to it's limit, so that I didn't have to pull over or unbuckle my child. I of course wan't driving at the time....
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#48 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Veggie Mama 4, I meant that people could suggest I leave my children with Dh and go to the supermarket by myself.

If you suggest my children go out (besides for walks) once a month, since that is all I can afford, then that makes sense. It isn't always practicle, but I could do that, at this time, if I chose to. Thank God, we haven't had to go to the doctor or anything lately.


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Originally Posted by veggiemama4
Hi Rachel,
Is it the law there for carseats? I understand that we take risks with our kids, and I understand what it is like to be poor, have crappy cars or no cars. No money etc., but I personally feel that the safety of our children is the priority, and I think that cinnamondmarco sounds like she is just making excuses, she is not trying to find a solution as you were, she is just saying: I don't use carseats and I don't care. Everyone's situation is different and I think that if someone is asking for a soulution it is one thing, but if they are just being defensive on every suggestion than there is a deeper issue.
I tried to explain why I started this thread. I wonder what you think my deep issue is.
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#49 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh, and here is one solution for those who take taxis - a solution for the over 25 lb. set, anyway:

https://www.safebeginnings.com/WebCo...&cat=On-the-Go
WOW! I never knew about those. I think I'll ask my Mom to buy those for me.
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#50 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:14 AM
 
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I understand what you are saying but if your child was flung through a windshield and thrown from the car and killed would you still feel this way? I just don't understand how taking a few minutes to park on the side of the road to nurse is that big a deal - I've done it a million times. Parenting is inconvenient by it's very nature, but it's your responsibility to suck it up and deal sometimes for the safety of your child.
You're totally right and I do admit my iresponsibility.
We all have things that we feel really passionate about.
Carseat safety is not one of my passions.
Children eating absolutely no sugar to support their immune system function is.
Does this mean I don't use carseats?No. I use them properly everyday except the 4 0r 5 times I've nursed while traveling. I know it's a risk. I just want to say that there are degrees of risk that people take every day. I'm glad there are people with such conviction doing whatever possible to make people like me understand that safety is a priority!
But there are also people like me who can see both sides of the issue and who can offer support to others who don't follow the majority of posters.

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#51 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:15 AM
 
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Hi Rachel,
Is it the law there for carseats? I understand that we take risks with our kids, and I understand what it is like to be poor, have crappy cars or no cars. No money etc., but I personally feel that the safety of our children is the priority, and I think that cinnamondmarco sounds like she is just making excuses, she is not trying to find a solution as you were, she is just saying: I don't use carseats and I don't care. Everyone's situation is different and I think that if someone is asking for a soulution it is one thing, but if they are just being defensive on every suggestion than there is a deeper issue.
Yes, there is a law here in fact it has recently gone up to 8 years old in booster seats, and up until 4 have to be in carseats. I never took a long trip without carseats, infact I even bought booster seats that would be easier to use in / out becuase I didn't think we were getting a car. I also never took pleasure trips, (heck I was pregnant with 2 babies who wants to go to the beach ). The only time I ever took them was 5 minutes to a dr. appointment or something. Dh did the shopping at night. Anyway I am just kind of rambling now, but no money really is an issue for a lot of people. And they don't know better. I recently explained to my friend about car seats expiring and she had never heard of such a thing. She is using the same seat for her 3yo as was used for her 17yo (he is #7). Many people also can't afford more than 1 carseat, so as soon as the baby outgrows the bucket, s/he goes in the carseat and even if older sib. is only 2.5 they go into the booster. Whoever is in the booster is then booted to a regular belt. This is the rotation and most people really do use 15 year old seats if they have older kids Like I said the booster age was recently (within the past year I believe) raised to 8, but most people I know with 8yo don't have them in boosters . It will take a while for it to change and become accepted. We were really lucky my mom dragged over 3 convertable seats for the kids. Even with a surcharge for extra baggage we still made out ahead ($160 for 3 evenflos). I saw the same seat here in a store and it was about $150 for one

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#52 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:17 AM
 
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I am not trying to be hostile I just get irritated when people keep saying things like "I can't, I can't" I understand that some things have to be done - if your kid is sick and needs to go to the doctors and you have no access to a carseat would suggest staying home? no way. I just think that if you change your mindset to "I can" and you realize that it is important, you may be able to find a way to make it work. As far as your deeper issue, I don't know. Maybe you feel stranded and isolated and you feel that others are judging you, maybe you feel bad that you can't afford a car so you want to expose your children to other things, with or without a carseat. These are normal feelings and alot of moms feel like this, if you have other things going on you should share them. It seems that there is alot of advice here.
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#53 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:21 AM
 
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Hi Rachel,
The law here (Mass) is that a child has to be in a booster seat until 80 pounds, (it used to be 40) it does seem extreme. My little niece is almost 11 and she only weighs about 50 pounds.. She hasn't sat in a booster seat for years and years. It seems silly to me that a child has to be 8yrs old or eighty pounds and still in a booster seat but in ten more years who knows maybe I will be calling myself crazy for not having my 9 year old in one... Why can't we just stick them all in bubbles until they're 18???
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#54 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pinkmilk
But there are also people like me who can see both sides of the issue and who can offer support to others who don't follow the majority of posters.
One can empathize and be understanding yet not offer support for something they don't believe in.

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#55 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:26 AM
 
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One can empathize and be understanding yet not offer support for something they don't believe in.
I hear you and I get it.

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#56 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CinnamonDeMarco
WOW! I never knew about those. I think I'll ask my Mom to buy those for me.
we had one and i don't think it is that safe. i could never get it tight enough. IMO a seatbelt would work just as good.
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#57 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:28 AM
 
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It was my understanding that in the US, carseats are not required in taxis. Am I wrong? I have always used a carseat for dd, but if I were in NYC and used the occasonal taxi to get around, I would probably forgo the carseat. I cannot imagine lugging around my Britax Roundabout while doing errands. Nor can I imagine never leaving the house.
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#58 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:35 AM
 
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I posted this becasue I think some people think, "I would NEVER not use a car seat. All children must be in car seats and if Moms don't use them, they are negligent. PERIOD" and they haven't thought about it like how I am explaining it. I used to live in a yuppish suburb and I used to think the same way. I'm just trying to get people to see another point of view.
I hear you CDM! Keep at it-- you're a breath of fresh air. "Other points of view" are often unwelcome here. Don't let the vocal majority try and shut you up, or paint you as a terrible, selfish and negligent mother. It's heartening to see that a couple of people on this thread are willing to see another person's reality.
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#59 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:36 AM
 
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A little girl died last night in a car accident here. She was restrained in a seat belt, not a booster or car seat. Her neck broke because of improper restraint.

Just something to think about.
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#60 of 328 Old 05-19-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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It was my understanding that in the US, carseats are not required in taxis. Am I wrong? I have always used a carseat for dd, but if I were in NYC and used the occasonal taxi to get around, I would probably forgo the carseat. .
According to something I found online about NY car seat law, "Liveries, taxis, and public transportation buses are exempt from the occupant restraint law."

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