A Woman took DS out of his carseat - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

A Woman took DS out of his carseat

Houdini's Avatar Houdini
01:21 PM Liked: 0
#151 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 3,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inca
I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times...
This would be considered illegal in the US and you could be arrested. There have been several cases in my area of children being removed from the home and/or the parents charged with neglect.
thismama's Avatar thismama
01:22 PM Liked: 22
#152 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 12,099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inca

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..
ITA.
wende's Avatar wende
02:18 PM Liked: 120
#153 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 3,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inca
Ok - I am a bit confused here.. I dont know what kind of society it is you have but where I live I think most women have left the kids in the car unattended for a short period of time. Ofcourse it isnt freaking hot here even in summer - and I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here - dogs yes - but never babies. I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times - when going shopping for 5 minutes - when going inside the bakers for bread, when my daughter has been sleeping to drop of my son at daycare and DH and I have done it when being on the road to sit a gasstation restaurant to eat - from a place where we could stand up and see that our kid/s was not crying or awake. I always lock the doors - because I have heard of thieves stealing cars then finding a baby in the backseat - but I would never worry about someone kidnapping my babies - especially not when the doors are locked. If a woman ever took one of my children out of MY car I would turn her over to the police for attempted kidnapping.
I do not feel the least bit guilty for leaving my kids in the car for shopping for 5 minutes. The car is my property and anyone breaking inthere is also breaking the law.
SO you are NOT a bad mother for leaving your kid in the car even for 5 minutes - but taking away a kid from someone elses car is BAD - especially without asking around first.

But ok - I admit to come from a country where we also leave the babies outside to sleep in the buggy. I have friends who live in houses with several appartment - and they leave their babies down in the yard in the buggy to sleep while they themselfes are in the appartment with the babymonitor on or an open window. And we are not talking a few bad parents here - we are talking this is what EVERYONE does - this is just how we do here. We leave the babies outside in the buggy while we go shopping. They sleep outside even in winter and that is just how it is. We never hear of kidnappings - very rarely it happens that someone attempts to steal a buggy and accidentally forget to notice that there is a child in it.. but what is this hysteria all about?

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..
Yes, but Denmark is markedly different than the US. We have the Amber Alert for a reason, because babies and children are kidnapped on a regular basis. Kids are snatched from their front yards. Babies here DO die in the heat because they were left alone in cars. Child neglect is a big problem and what the OP did could have easilly been considered neglect. Nobody can say for sure how long the baby was left there and if he was left long enough and the mother was so oblivious that someone was able to grab the baby and WALK BY HER with the baby in her arms w/o the mother or father noticing than she could be charged with neglect if someone wanted to persue it. In Denmark, I may be comfortable enough to leave a sleeping baby in a buggy outside while I was inside eating...maybe. Here, there isn't a chance in Hell that I'd ever even consider it.
maya44's Avatar maya44
02:18 PM Liked: 11
#154 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 2,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWine
Denmark is a verrrrry different culture

Yes and a very different country. The weather simply is not comparable. A top story on MSNBC yesterday was about children dying while left in hot cars.

A person who takes a child to whom no attention is being paid out of the car and into a cool restaurant and into the hands of a security guard has done NOTHING wrong.

It is Illegal in almost every state to leave a child unattended in a car. A child who is carried out of a car without the parent noticing would absolutely be considered "unattended"
Lisa85's Avatar Lisa85
02:52 PM Liked: 35
#155 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 982
Joined: May 2006
Yes, I 3rd or 4th that Denmark is a completely different culture than the U.S. I grew up in a town started by immigrants from Holland. A teacher of mine was married from an immigrant from holland (he immigrated, not his grandparents or anything like that if that makes sense) and they took a trip back. Her husband insisted it was ok to leave the car unlocked, they saw numerous babies left outside, etc, etc. AFAIK, denmark has a pretty lax gov't. Said husband also recieved numerous speeding tickets because in Holland, you just don't get tickets unless you're driving at an absurd speed. He could hardly believe you get pulled over and ticketed for pretty much anything over 5mph.

I was just in Wal-Mart the other day. There was an infant in a carseat in a cart near the curb who looked to be around 2mo old. I didn't see a parent (yes, father's are liable too) around so I walked up to the baby with full intentions on calling the police, until I saw the mother sitting on the curb. She was hidden by the cart so I didn't see her at first. You're damn right I would have picked that baby up if she was crying, or looked to be in danger.

Quote:
Lisa, your area probably has a volunteer fire department. They have to tone out for firefighters, who need to leave what they are doing, drive to the station, pick up the apparatus, and then respond to the call.

Oh, the ambulance you saw didn't necessarily belong to the service that does 911 for your community.
You're probably right that the fire department was volunteer, but the firefighters also admitted they had gotten lost (said friend lives in the boonies) As for the ambulance scenario - it was at an outdoor event I was working for. The ambulance was there specifically for the concert. But that's not really the point anyways. The point was even in an emergency, it can take awhile for emergency personel to get there.
Joannarachel's Avatar Joannarachel
04:53 PM Liked: 0
#156 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 1,452
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I know...I just thought you might like an explanation :

Inca, I'm sorry, but your experience in Denmark is pretty much irrelevant to the OP's scenario. You could be arrested here for what you described doing in Denmark. And in this country, a woman who rescues a child left in a car is generally lauded as a heroine. She certainly wouldn't be arrested as it is not considered a crime to save a child from a potentially deadly situation.
limabean's Avatar limabean
05:35 PM Liked: 4964
#157 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inca
I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here...we never hear of kidnappings... but what is this hysteria all about?
If you never hear of babies dying in cars or being kidnapped where you live, can you explain to me how anything in your post is relavent to this thread?
StephandOwen's Avatar StephandOwen
06:02 PM Liked: 323
#158 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 8,613
Joined: Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inca
Ok - I am a bit confused here.. I dont know what kind of society it is you have but where I live I think most women have left the kids in the car unattended for a short period of time. Ofcourse it isnt freaking hot here even in summer - and I have never heard of a baby dying in a car here - dogs yes - but never babies. I have left my two children alone in the car (both under 3) several times - when going shopping for 5 minutes - when going inside the bakers for bread, when my daughter has been sleeping to drop of my son at daycare and DH and I have done it when being on the road to sit a gasstation restaurant to eat - from a place where we could stand up and see that our kid/s was not crying or awake. I always lock the doors - because I have heard of thieves stealing cars then finding a baby in the backseat - but I would never worry about someone kidnapping my babies - especially not when the doors are locked. If a woman ever took one of my children out of MY car I would turn her over to the police for attempted kidnapping.
I do not feel the least bit guilty for leaving my kids in the car for shopping for 5 minutes. The car is my property and anyone breaking inthere is also breaking the law.
SO you are NOT a bad mother for leaving your kid in the car even for 5 minutes - but taking away a kid from someone elses car is BAD - especially without asking around first.

But ok - I admit to come from a country where we also leave the babies outside to sleep in the buggy. I have friends who live in houses with several appartment - and they leave their babies down in the yard in the buggy to sleep while they themselfes are in the appartment with the babymonitor on or an open window. And we are not talking a few bad parents here - we are talking this is what EVERYONE does - this is just how we do here. We leave the babies outside in the buggy while we go shopping. They sleep outside even in winter and that is just how it is. We never hear of kidnappings - very rarely it happens that someone attempts to steal a buggy and accidentally forget to notice that there is a child in it.. but what is this hysteria all about?

The problem here is not the mother if you ask me but the lady who steals away a kid that isnt hers. Nomatter her intentions..
I'm glad that you live in a society like this. I really am. Unfortunately, the US is not like this. Don't believe it's this serious? Read these.

"on a 75-degree day the temperature inside a Chevy Venture can reach higher than 120 degrees in just half an hour"


"temperatures can still rise to deadly elevations with the windows down."


6 year old boy kidnapped during a car theft, adults left for *just a minute* to go inside a gas station

Or how about a 3 year old is kidnapped when his dad put him in the car then went back inside the house to get his infant.

There are many many more news stories of baby/young children being left in cars and dying, suffering brain damage, or being kidnapped. Here, in the States, it is not a safe thing to do.
Greensleeves's Avatar Greensleeves
06:19 PM Liked: 5
#159 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 1,612
Joined: Aug 2004
Another link to a site about preventing car-related deaths:
http://www.4rkidssake.org/
Dechen's Avatar Dechen
06:35 PM Liked: 0
#160 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 750
Joined: Apr 2004
Cosleeping kills.
Homebirth is risky and dangerous.
Refusing to vaccinate is neglect.
Breastfeeding preschoolers is abuse.

These beliefs are also a part of American culture.

I think the OP knows she made a mistake. In the U.S., leaving a child unattended in a car is illegal and and considered dangerous. Therefore, a passerby will understandably assume that (a) a baby in a car has been forgotten about or that (b) the parents aren't taking proper care of the child. Most decent parents in the U.S. don't leave their children alone in the car, due to a combination of fear, legal concerns, and social concerns.

Notice I said most. A parent CAN make a reasonable decision to leave a child in the car.

I don't think what the OP did is automatically a bad thing. She felt in touch with the temperature of the car, and she and the rest of the family were nearby. Child abduction, for all the play that it gets in the media, is VERY rare.

I do think that given our culture and laws, it was a bad idea. And if I saw a baby in a car alone, I too would take him or her out and find help. Not from a security guard, because statistically security guards are more likely to have criminal backgrounds than the average person, but I'd probably call the police. I just couldn't take the chance that the baby had been forgotten or was being neglected.

Here on MDC, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the OP was making an informed and conscious decision to do something unpopular.

How many of us never do the same?
StephandOwen's Avatar StephandOwen
07:06 PM Liked: 323
#161 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 8,613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechen
A parent CAN make a reasonable decision to leave a child in the car.
And, like with every other decision a parent makes, there are risks involved. The risks of leaving a child alone in a car, for whatever amount of time, include overheating, abduction, kidnapping during a car theft, child choking on a toy/whatever, car fires (I remember at least one news story where the car started on fire at a gas station, trapping a child inside), getting stuck in a seat belt, car getting struck by another car, child accidently "driving" the car if the keys are left, etc. Yes, the chances of any of those happening are very very small. Unless it happens to your child.

Just like the chances of smothering your baby while co-sleeping are small.

There's a chance your child could die of a disease you chose not to vaccinate him/her from.

The chances of a baby dying during childbirth are small, but when it happens to you it's devistating.

These *rare* occaisions have to happen to someone, I'll do everything in my power to keep them from happening to me.

The original poster took a risk, and is lucky nothing worse happened.
boingo82's Avatar boingo82
07:41 PM Liked: 5
#162 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 9,299
Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechen
Cosleeping kills.
Homebirth is risky and dangerous.
Refusing to vaccinate is neglect.
Breastfeeding preschoolers is abuse.
All of the things you mentioned, could be done more ways than one. There is a difference, for example, between cosleeping with minimal bedding, sober, vs. cosleeping on a feather bed while drunk.

To me, the fact that a woman was able to get into the car and TAKE THE BABY, without any family member noticing, means that the baby was NOT being left in the car safely at all.
I wouldn't advocate leaving your kids in the car, but don't think it's the end of the world if done safely - the keys aren't in, it's not a hot day, the windows are down, and you are right there keeping track of them. However, I don't think the OP or her DH were paying enough attention to the baby at all.
Dechen's Avatar Dechen
08:01 PM Liked: 0
#163 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boingo82
All of the things you mentioned, could be done more ways than one. There is a difference, for example, between cosleeping with minimal bedding, sober, vs. cosleeping on a feather bed while drunk.

To me, the fact that a woman was able to get into the car and TAKE THE BABY, without any family member noticing, means that the baby was NOT being left in the car safely at all.
Except that it would have been safe in Denmark, where no one would have taken the child.

I think I was fairly clear that I think leaving a child in the car, here in the U.S., is a pretty bad idea. What I'm trying to point out is that the condemnation from MDCers is a bit ... ironic. We are a forum that values the ability to make personal choices that buck the mainstream idea of safety.

I coslept with my dd from day one. There are so many people in this country who would hysterically insist it wasn't safe, that I was putting my baby at risk. They believe this, passionately and righteously.

I don't.

Can't a person get in trouble with child services if a child doesn't have his or her own bed? I think I've heard that. My point is that we here at MDC are not immune to cultural conditioning about safety.
boingo82's Avatar boingo82
08:12 PM Liked: 5
#164 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 9,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechen
Except that it would have been safe in Denmark, where no one would have taken the child.

I think I was fairly clear that I think leaving a child in the car, here in the U.S., is a pretty bad idea. What I'm trying to point out is that the condemnation from MDCers is a bit ... ironic. We are a forum that values the ability to make personal choices that buck the mainstream idea of safety.

I coslept with my dd from day one. There are so many people in this country who would hysterically insist it wasn't safe, that I was putting my baby at risk. They believe this, passionately and righteously.

I don't.

Can't a person get in trouble with child services if a child doesn't have his or her own bed? I think I've heard that. My point is that we here at MDC are not immune to cultural conditioning about safety.
But the OP isn't IN Denmark. She is in the US, where her choice (IMO) was not safe or appropriate.
If nothing happened, I don't think I'd react the same, but the fact that someone DID take her baby (even with the best of intentions), and the OP did not notice, proves that the baby was not safe being left in the car!

Like I said, variations of cosleeping can range from safer, to more dangerous. Same with leaving your kids in the car- the risk is not absolute, it varies on the situation. The situation described in this thread obviously was not safe.
oceanbaby's Avatar oceanbaby
09:51 PM Liked: 18
#165 of 171
06-26-2006 | Posts: 11,167
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As usual I am jumping in very late in the game, so maybe someone else has said this.

To be honest, the only thing that made me gulp in the OP was that someone was able to get the baby out of the car without the OP noticing. But I am not bashing her for his. God knows I have screwed up more than once and I thank my lucky stars my kids are still okay. But that is really what bothers me more than the idea that she left the child in the car under those circumstances.

Quote:
What I'm trying to point out is that the condemnation from MDCers is a bit ... ironic. We are a forum that values the ability to make personal choices that buck the mainstream idea of safety.
I very much agree with this. Go visit some other boards and before long you will find a 7 page long discussion condeming someone for not vaccinating their child, how dangerous it is, detailing the risks she is taking. Honestly, the biggest danger the OP took was driving in the first place. That had more potential for injury and death than the circumstances under which she left the baby alone in the car, and it's something we all choose to do almost every day. If we all can trust one another to make choices to to not vaccinate or have an unassisted birth, choices which 95% of the public would tell us is irresponsible and dangerous, then it is hypocritical to bash an obviously tuned in mom for carefully evaluating a decision and making the choice she did.
lexbeach's Avatar lexbeach
11:22 PM Liked: 20
#166 of 171
06-27-2006 | Posts: 5,040
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In Massachusetts at least (not sure about other states), it is illegal to leave kids in the car in public places for any amount of time, even if you can see the car from where you are. When I worked as a preschool teacher, and was thus a mandated reporter (required by law to report any possibility of child abuse), one of the things we were told that we had to report was parents leaving their kids in the car while they dropped other kids off at school. We were constantly reminding parents that this was not allowed and that they would be reported if they did it.

A friend of mine, not knowing the law, left his two kids in their car seats in the locked car (it was early spring, no worries of overheating) while he ran into the pharmacy to pick up their prescriptions (the kids were sick), keeping the car in view the whole time. A police man noticed the kids in the car and reported my friend to DSS. My friend and his wife then had to undergo an investigation and will probably not be allowed to adopt any children because of this being on their record (they had been planning to adopt). I am glad my friend didn't have his kids taken away, but I think he was pretty crazy to leave his kids in the car.

I think the OP should feel lucky that she wasn't reported to child protective services, and that her baby is okay and wasn't kidnapped.
Hazelnut's Avatar Hazelnut
12:13 AM Liked: 0
#167 of 171
06-28-2006 | Posts: 3,225
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www.kidsandcars.org is another depressing, informative site, although I think Dechen has a point.
mmace's Avatar mmace
11:12 AM Liked: 107
#168 of 171
06-29-2006 | Posts: 2,936
Joined: Feb 2002
I've been reading this thread since it started and didn't really have anything to add, then this morning I read this in my local paper online:

"Temperatures inside a vehicle can rise about 19 degrees in 10 minutes and 43 degrees in an hour." I knew cars could get hot quickly, but I had no idea that they could get that hot that quickly.

Here's the link in case you're interested: http://www.observer-reporter.com/mai...79&TM=31674.76

OP, I'm glad your little one is okay.
majazama's Avatar majazama
03:33 PM Liked: 12
#169 of 171
06-29-2006 | Posts: 4,493
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To the OP. I totally understand what you have said, and I'm sickened that half of MDC does not. You are a good mother, and it shouldn't be a huge deal when you leave your baby in the car for a few minutes while you are close by. I can understand how easy it could be to be distracted by your other child just enough for someone to sneak in your car. I don't blame you. You are human.

To all the people who accost this mother. Shame on you. What is the world coming to when mothers are so cruel to each other. This mother was obviously looking for support and understanding, not for being shat apon.
Periwinkle's Avatar Periwinkle
12:31 AM Liked: 11
#170 of 171
06-30-2006 | Posts: 8,530
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(I cannot believe this thread is still going. Every time it pops up in my User CP, I cringe.)
DecemberSun's Avatar DecemberSun
10:25 PM Liked: 10
#171 of 171
06-30-2006 | Posts: 1,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majazama
To the OP. I totally understand what you have said, and I'm sickened that half of MDC does not. You are a good mother, and it shouldn't be a huge deal when you leave your baby in the car for a few minutes while you are close by. I can understand how easy it could be to be distracted by your other child just enough for someone to sneak in your car. I don't blame you. You are human.

To all the people who accost this mother. Shame on you. What is the world coming to when mothers are so cruel to each other. This mother was obviously looking for support and understanding, not for being shat apon.
I truly don't want to beat a dead horse, but I feel like I had to say something.

I have to agree with Jaz...

Shame on the Mamas who actually accused the OP of lying. You have NO IDEA what exactly happened, and you have no right to fill in the blanks. She said flat out that she knew she should have been watching, and she knows how terrible it would be if her life had changed for the worst in the blink of an eye. She knew she made a mistake. She wanted us all to learn from it- keep her story in the back of our minds whenever we are faced with the decision to leave our child in the car or not. She didn't post here to have you all insult her. Yes, we all need to know the dangers of leaving kids alone in parked cars, but you didn't have to be so rude to this particular mother. There are other more tactful ways to get your points across ("Don't leave kids in cars alone") than to call this mother a LIAR. That was just downright low, and I hope ZanZansMommy doesn't leave MDC because of this thread... I thought we were all supportive, friendly, intelligent mamas who knew the difference between a mother who needed to be bitch-slapped for neglecting her child, and a mama who needed a place to get her feelings off her chest about her embarrassing mistake.

Ok, 'nuff said...

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