Anyone wanna talk about the conception of "gifted" status in children? - Page 19 - Mothering Forums
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#541 of 927 Old 08-01-2006, 10:18 PM
 
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Heartmama, you didn't answer my question. You are obviously against "average learning" but do you go so far as to feel that MR and Downs and Autism are labels that should be done away with. And all the IEP's that give individual accommodations like having tests read aloud, etc. Those are a product of the labeling system that actually make education more individualized as opposed to making them a part of a homogenous group with no allowance for differences. I don't understand why some kids shouldn't get visual aids and some shouldn't get special accomodations that others don't *need* in order to be able to grasp the same material. In many cases, most of my dh's ld students (who are in team taught classes - 2 teachers for 30 students - 1 special ed, 1 gen.ed.) have accomodations that the other students aren't even aware of. Only the individual students and the teacher even know they're on the special ed roster. The other kids are never told. The severely LD students are in self-contained classes with 8 students to a teacher and they get a ton of one on one time on their areas of challenge. Your idea of getting rid of the labels, gets rid of all those accomodations for the kids that need it. I know all kids need special attention, but it's the special ed kids that are most likely to drop out.

Many MR and Autistic kids are in classes with 8 students and 2 teachers and then they also have a personal attendant that sits with them the entire day and makes sure they get their accomodations. Your objection to labels prevents them from getting that.

I know gen. ed. students need more attention and specialization, but taking it away from special ed / gifted or any other program does not help.

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Originally Posted by heartmama
Yes, sure, I'd like to see the whole system crash tomorrow, and the money wasted oversea's on war and political favors spent here. Our entire society would alter if children grew up in a learning environment dedicated to meeting their individual learning needs.
Honestly you have to realize what you're saying. For the whole system to "crash" you'd have schools closing everywhere and the only people to be educated for the decade following would be the wealthy who can afford private schools or those who have the cultural network to be able to homeschool. There are many adults in America who do not have the education themselves to be able to educate their children. Those kids would never recieve anything.

Wishing that the education system would crash and burn is the same thing as wishing for poor people to become poorer. Wishing to see solutions to fix the current system is entirely different than wishing to see it all fall apart. You should see the awesome programs that some groups are implementing in some schools today. Most schools are doing poorly but while a lot of people turn their backs, there are people trying to make things better. And those who get involved and make a difference in education are helping all our children.
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#542 of 927 Old 08-01-2006, 11:26 PM
 
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Heartmama, you didn't answer my question. You are obviously against "average learning" but do you go so far as to feel that MR and Downs and Autism are labels that should be done away with. And all the IEP's that give individual accommodations like having tests read aloud, etc. Those are a product of the labeling system that actually make education more individualized as opposed to making them a part of a homogenous group with no allowance for differences. I don't understand why some kids shouldn't get visual aids and some shouldn't get special accomodations that others don't *need* in order to be able to grasp the same material.
Oy! I have answered this question at least twice

I specifically said that labels which are the direct result of the current educational system's linear concept of average are flawed. Are Down's and Autism the result of a 3rd grade teacher's decision that little Johnny seems ahead or behind in his curriculum? No! Please do not compare apples to oranges for the sake of proving a point I never made--or to disprove a point of mine you do not seem to distinguish?

Read the tests aloud, print the tests in braille, have an aide sit and give on on one attention, type everything out in Times New Roman if it's the only text a child can read~~I'm saying YES children SHOULD have access to the resources they need in order to learn! Those needs will differ from one child to the next! Meet the need! I did not say "take away" from the kids already getting specialized help. I have the novel idea that children who go to school to learn can "have their cake and eat it too".

Our whole concept of what constitutes a "special" learning need is flawed. We only see it at the ends of an imagined spectrum. If a child can buckle up and perform under a curriculum that stifles his love of learning, that's not really cause to celebrate, is it? But that seems to be good enough for many people here.

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Wishing that the education system would crash and burn is the same thing as wishing for poor people to become poorer.
I guess it wasn't obvious that I meant for a new system to take it's place~not to just leave all the kids who go to school hanging in the streets...

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#543 of 927 Old 08-01-2006, 11:34 PM
 
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Adding this to the sub-thread~I really think students should feel free to (respectfully) correct a teacher's mistake. I can see no benefit to anyone from leaving 2+3=6 on the blackboard.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#544 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 12:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama
Adding this to the sub-thread~I really think students should feel free to (respectfully) correct a teacher's mistake. I can see no benefit to anyone from leaving 2+3=6 on the blackboard.
Sure, I'll concede that, as long as the student isn't out to "catch her making a mistake" in some sort of one-upsmanship or ha-ha-I gotcha. There's a way to point out others' mistakes in public and ways not to do so, if you want the relationship to stay amicable.
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#545 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 12:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dechen
Labels are neither good nor bad. They are constructs. They are tools. A hammer can be used to knock someone's head in, or it can be used to create life-sustaining shelter. The value of a tool is in how it is wielded, not in the tool itself.

To be sure, some tools are built more carefully or with more thought. Some tools are more useful than others.

The label "gifted" is no different. It can be used with skill, and to the benefit of children, or it can be used poorly and cause harm. You can bludgeon a person with a label, or show them how to use that label to build something useful.

I'm not the type that likes to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There ARE children with a similar set of social, emotional, and educational needs that can be grouped together under the term "gifted." The category isn't perfect, nor is it the end-all be-all of classifying children. It can still be tremendously useful.
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#546 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 02:13 AM
 
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I'm bowing out of this discussion, interesting as it has been...thinking of deleting my last two posts as they were written hurriedly and don't make too much sense (and apparently the phrase "genius worship" - badly chosen - offended at least one person). However I really hate deleting my posts, so for now I'll leave them up.

I noticed that a thread title in the Gifted forum had been deleted and when I read the edited OP, it turns out that the OP is so upset by this discussion that she is leaving MDC!

I don't see a problem with questioning *anything*, including the appropriateness of the term 'gifted' and the usefulness of classifying children as 'gifted'. And I think that doing so is very much within the spirit of MDC.

However, I hate to think that my posts have caused another person such pain that they left the community after more than 2 1/2 years. I am not really sure what it is about *this particular issue* that causes so many hurt feelings. Maybe I don't get it because I speak as the (grown-up) "gifted" child myself, not someone who has BTDT with their own child. I truly apologize if any of my posts have been insensitive. It sometimes happens but it is rarely on purpose, and I have posted in utmost sincerity on this thread with no desire to hurt anyone in any way. I take back the "genius worship" comment because I didn't express it as I meant - it was not intended as a dig, in any way, and it was not addressed to the mamas posted on this thread but was intended as a general comment on society's view of the heroic or brilliant individual.

I'm probably not expressing myself well *now*. I'm tired, have a cracked nipple (anyone who would like to give me advice? here's the thread), and am not feeling very gifted in any way. So I hope this will be taken in the spirit that it is meant.

This topic ties me up in knots, but if you haven't noticed, it's a personal thing. I'm a person who didn't live up to the expectations others had for her or that I had for myself, and *to me* my failures (and the fact that I perceive them as failures) are inextricably intertwined with this whole giftedness thing. But I'm not gifted enough, I guess, to talk about it without getting very confused.

Peace.
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#547 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 02:37 AM
 
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Nora'smama I have loved your posts here!

I have been here for 6 years. If people left over this thread a diverse environment probably doesn't suit their needs. Sometimes people just want agreement, and that is a perfectly valid need. I'm sure there are websites that will better meet that need. If anything this thread is a refreshing throwback to the times when MDC threads really dug into the meat of an issue.

I cannot begin to count the number of threads here that did not support my feelings on a very personal issue. I have taken extended breaks from the boards but it's still the best place I know for a wide range of views on alternative parenting topics.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#548 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 02:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
However, I hate to think that my posts have caused another person such pain that they left the community after more than 2 1/2 years. I am not really sure what it is about *this particular issue* that causes so many hurt feelings. Maybe I don't get it because I speak as the (grown-up) "gifted" child myself, not someone who has BTDT with their own child. I truly apologize if any of my posts have been insensitive. It sometimes happens but it is rarely on purpose, and I have posted in utmost sincerity on this thread with no desire to hurt anyone in any way. I take back the "genius worship" comment because I didn't express it as I meant - it was not intended as a dig, in any way, and it was not addressed to the mamas posted on this thread but was intended as a general comment on society's view of the heroic or brilliant individual.
Thank you.

[Speaking for myself here.]

Please understand though that neither you nor anything you've said is "the problem." This thread in and of itself is not the problem. It's just that it keeps coming up and every time it does it feels like another attack. Feelings are still raw from a recent thread in Learning at Home. Feelings are still raw about getting kicked out of Special Needs (the place Cynthia had decided was appropriate for the lone gifted thread). This took place right before the move to the new server. When MDC was back up we got the new forum and within a day or two, this thread appears. Feelings are raw because it doesn't matter who or how much personal experience is shared, it seems to be (and admittedly this is an issue of perception) devalued by those on the "other side." The problem is that at MDC that is just doesn't seem to stop even though new ground is rarely breached.

The mamas of gifted kids here at MDC are not the pushy stereotypes ensuring their kids get into TAG programs because it's a status thing or a rung in the ladder to success. In my time here there's only one I've seen that I thought might fit into that category. We all want what's best for our kids. It would be nice if that could be acknowledged up front by all parties. At MDC it's common to hear about tolerance and acceptance and empathy; I guess it would be nice to see a bit more of this in these discussions. These are our kids.

Now I realize that's an emotional argument, but then again, we're talking about feelings. I'm better able to detach myself than some because I have a relatively easy time of it with DD1 (so far anyway; there are hints of intense storms in the offing).
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#549 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 02:58 AM
 
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I'm bowing out of this one too. Not because of hurt feelings; I just don't think there's anything more to be said.
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#550 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 03:12 AM
 
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I was labelled gifted as well. I also think IQ tests are crap and I think I would have been better off without any of it.

like you I was also abused...also, my sister was learning disabled (so they said, I think she was very shy, had a stutter so she would not tell what she knew) at any rate that gave my parents the idea she was to be spoiled and I was to take all blame since I must know better....even if I wasnt in the room.

I think the fact she will speak to none of us to this day (nor I to them, to tell the truth) had to do with these things.
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#551 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 03:33 AM
 
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The mamas of gifted kids (those who chose to embrace that label however flawed) are not looking for a homogeneous environment. All they are looking for is an environment that isn't hostile.

The issue is bigger than this thread. I don't think this thread, out of context, is anything but a spirited discussion. On an intellectual level, I've enjoyed reading it.

Unfortunately, there has been a lot more going on. Mamas who post about giftedness face repeated hostility on this board. I'm not pointing fingers. It happens, and in many different fora. Here, there, everywhere.

I think it is callous to discount the emotions of our FELLOW MDC mamas. It is not in the spirit of MDC to say "Gee, too bad you're so sensitive. I guess you should stay out of the kitchen."

I have no intentions of leaving MDC, and my kid may or may not be gifted, but I take offense to the way mamas of so-called gifted kids are belittled and discounted. Sensitivity apparently has its limits. Whether or not any of the posters on this thread agree with the gifted construct, can we not muster some compassion for the way a portion of our community is feeling attacked?

I'd like to naively hope it isn't too much to ask.
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#552 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 05:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dechen
The mamas of gifted kids (those who chose to embrace that label however flawed) are not looking for a homogeneous environment. All they are looking for is an environment that isn't hostile.

The issue is bigger than this thread. I don't think this thread, out of context, is anything but a spirited discussion. On an intellectual level, I've enjoyed reading it.

Unfortunately, there has been a lot more going on. Mamas who post about giftedness face repeated hostility on this board. I'm not pointing fingers. It happens, and in many different fora. Here, there, everywhere.

I think it is callous to discount the emotions of our FELLOW MDC mamas. It is not in the spirit of MDC to say "Gee, too bad you're so sensitive. I guess you should stay out of the kitchen."

I have no intentions of leaving MDC, and my kid may or may not be gifted, but I take offense to the way mamas of so-called gifted kids are belittled and discounted. Sensitivity apparently has its limits. Whether or not any on the posters on this thread agree with the gifted construct, can we not muster some compassion for the way a portion of our community is feeling attacked?

I'd like to naively hope it isn't too much to ask.
Great post!

I think the problem is a lot deeper than this thread, and unfortunately the new forum has proven not to be a safe haven either (just like we suspected in the Q&A thread).

I really don't know what can be done, short of having a support only forum with restrictions (the same as the abuse forum). There will always be those who are against parents talking about the special needs their gifted children have ... but they don't have to follow us around repeating the same stuff over and over again. And even if they're not saying it to our face the sheer number of views vs posts in the new forum, and the cropping up of threads all over the place with the bashing of us is enough of a problem that it needs to be addressed seriously.
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#553 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 05:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by NoHiddenFees
Thank you.

[Speaking for myself here.]

Please understand though that neither you nor anything you've said is "the problem." This thread in and of itself is not the problem. It's just that it keeps coming up and every time it does it feels like another attack. Feelings are still raw from a recent thread in Learning at Home. Feelings are still raw about getting kicked out of Special Needs (the place Cynthia had decided was appropriate for the lone gifted thread). This took place right before the move to the new server. When MDC was back up we got the new forum and within a day or two, this thread appears. Feelings are raw because it doesn't matter who or how much personal experience is shared, it seems to be (and admittedly this is an issue of perception) devalued by those on the "other side." The problem is that at MDC that is just doesn't seem to stop even though new ground is rarely breached.

The mamas of gifted kids here at MDC are not the pushy stereotypes ensuring their kids get into TAG programs because it's a status thing or a rung in the ladder to success. In my time here there's only one I've seen that I thought might fit into that category. We all want what's best for our kids. It would be nice if that could be acknowledged up front by all parties. At MDC it's common to hear about tolerance and acceptance and empathy; I guess it would be nice to see a bit more of this in these discussions. These are our kids.

Now I realize that's an emotional argument, but then again, we're talking about feelings. I'm better able to detach myself than some because I have a relatively easy time of it with DD1 (so far anyway; there are hints of intense storms in the offing).


Well said!
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#554 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 08:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade
I really don't know what can be done, short of having a support only forum with restrictions (the same as the abuse forum). There will always be those who are against parents talking about the special needs their gifted children have ... but they don't have to follow us around repeating the same stuff over and over again. And even if they're not saying it to our face the sheer number of views vs posts in the new forum, and the cropping up of threads all over the place with the bashing of us is enough of a problem that it needs to be addressed seriously.
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#555 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 12:15 PM
 
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Great post!

I think the problem is a lot deeper than this thread, and unfortunately the new forum has proven not to be a safe haven either (just like we suspected in the Q&A thread).

I really don't know what can be done, short of having a support only forum with restrictions (the same as the abuse forum). There will always be those who are against parents talking about the special needs their gifted children have ... but they don't have to follow us around repeating the same stuff over and over again. And even if they're not saying it to our face the sheer number of views vs posts in the new forum, and the cropping up of threads all over the place with the bashing of us is enough of a problem that it needs to be addressed seriously.
Slightly OT-

I DO think that we need some stickies in place in the new forum stating that it is a support forum- like queer parenting has- not a place to question validity. Cynthia is agreeable if we put something together.

-Angela
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#556 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 01:10 PM
 
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I hear that you feel defensive and personally attacked. I'm really not sure that just because some parents have vastly different experiences with their own gifted education and their child's labelling, and the effects of labelling in general on the school systems (i.e. on all children), that we mean to be attacking you personally. Some people might feel that the valorization of high IQ is an racist, classist phenomenon and feel personally offended, too. But I think we can debate it outside of your support forum, as many of us have our personal experiences, professional observations, and parental input to share as well.

It is an internet forum, after all? The women on here - as a general rule - are independent, critical thinkers who do care for not only their children, but all children. There are entire message boards devoted to support-only for parents of gifted children, and now there's a subforum, which I encourage you to make support-only, and define the terms of "support." As in, no debating about IQ tests or acceleration, or the meaning of gifted and signs of giftedness? But there will be people you exclude by definitions, and they might also feel personally invalidated and upset. It is an internet forum, after all...
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#557 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 01:38 PM
 
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t is an internet forum, after all? The women on here - as a general rule - are independent, critical thinkers who do care for not only their children, but all children. There are entire message boards devoted to support-only for parents of gifted children, and now there's a subforum, which I encourage you to make support-only, and define the terms of "support." As in, no debating about IQ tests or acceleration, or the meaning of gifted and signs of giftedness? But there will be people you exclude by definitions, and they might also feel personally invalidated and upset. It is an internet forum, after all...
Agreed. A gifted support forum meets a need, and it does not change the feelings of those who feel the label was/is harmful to themselves or others. It does not mean there is a consensus here, or that a mother at MDC should expect everyone to "get over it" in every Forum, because their need for support has been acknowledged in another forum.

The Queer Parenting forum didn't create consensus in the Activism forum when the gay marriage legislation was discussed. The homebirth forum did not create an MDC consensus on where a woman should give birth. The strict no-spanking stand in GD Forum does not mean there is consensus on spanking legislation discussions in other forums (or even that forum).

Personally, I am glad there is a Gifted support forum. I have strong feelings about this issue and am not interested in a supportive discussion. My needs are better met with a separate support Forum too.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#558 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 05:14 PM
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I was thinking of this thread as I was driving today... I'm in the middle of moving 40 minutes away and have been doing a lot of driving, and I haven't had much online time.

One of the things I was thinking was that my feelings about the "gifted" label are very similar to my feelings about the "indigo child" and "crystal child" labels. I, personally, don't buy into those labels. I can accept that certain children have certain behavior traits, but I don't see these as being part of an overall "indigo" energy pattern. When people tell me that their children are "indigos", I may have concerns that the parents are seeing the "sense of entitlement" that is a characteristic trait of indigos in that light, and therefore aren't helping their children to interact with others in a more egalitarian fashion. On the other hand, if people find it useful to characterize their children as indigos and talk about their problems within that framework, and if doing so helps their children, then more power to them. I'm not going to leap into their groups and tell them how I feel. If someone posts a thread here about the conception of indigo children, however, I may well jump in.

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#559 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 05:49 PM
 
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I was thinking of this thread as I was driving today... I'm in the middle of moving 40 minutes away and have been doing a lot of driving, and I haven't had much online time. dar
I was thinking about the thread while I was driving this morning too, but we had very different thoughts. I was driving my ten year old to the university where he studies.

I thought... We could refuse to use the word gifted. We could refuse to label it. We could pretend that there isn't anything unusual about this and it is just different like everyone likes a different kind of food or a different sport. We could pretend the IQ and standardized test results are really random and no more meaningful than a lottery number or a horoscope. We could pretend that what makes this difference is noticeable is if we talk about it or label it. We could pretend that if we don't name it he'll never notice and neither will anyone else. We could pretend no one including him is aware that he's half the age of the other students. We could pretend it is all just a matter of interests and not of abilities and really any kid who had the interest would need this sort of work and do just fine with it.

Frankly it seems like a lot of work to do all that pretending and it seems to me really dishonest. I'm not sure why anyone would put the effort into that kind of pretending or what would be accomplished by it. It also seems like it could be incredibly confusing to the kid involved. They would be left to wonder without the help of honest discussion.

So for me, talking about giftedness or whatever we want to call it isn't about claiming status or looking for entitlements, but at the very core about being honest about what is not only obvious to us after ten years with our son but obvious to strangers who spend five minutes with him. It isn't particularly important to me that it be called gifted. We could call it Fred for all I care. It is important though that we have an honest way to talk about it.
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#560 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 05:57 PM
 
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One of the things I was thinking was that my feelings about the "gifted" label are very similar to my feelings about the "indigo child" and "crystal child" labels. I, personally, don't buy into those labels.
Hmm, that's interesting. Do you really mean that you think the "gifted" label is as unsupported by science or common sense as the "indigo" and "crystal" labels? (Which are based on things like the ability to transmit various colored "rays of incarnation and evolution.") I, personally, don't even come close to buying into those labels. But the idea that people vary in innate intellectual ability, and that it might be useful (or at least possible) to identify some of the people with particularly high ability in certain areas - well, I see that as somewhat debatable, but not at all unreasonable. Isn't that idea what we're talking about when we talk about the "gifted" label? Or are you thinking more about the idea that high IQ is connected to characteristics like high sensitivity or social ineptness?
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#561 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 06:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Roar
I was thinking about the thread while I was driving this morning too, but we had very different thoughts. I was driving my ten year old to the university where he studies.

I thought... We could refuse to use the word gifted. We could refuse to label it. We could pretend that there isn't anything unusual about this and it is just different like everyone likes a different kind of food or a different sport. We could pretend the IQ and standardized test results are really random and no more meaningful than a lottery number or a horoscope. We could pretend that what makes this difference is noticeable is if we talk about it or label it. We could pretend that if we don't name it he'll never notice and neither will anyone else. We could pretend no one including him is aware that he's half the age of the other students. We could pretend it is all just a matter of interests and not of abilities and really any kid who had the interest would need this sort of work and do just fine with it.

Frankly it seems like a lot of work to do all that pretending and it seems to me really dishonest. I'm not sure why anyone would put the effort into that kind of pretending or what would be accomplished by it. It also seems like it could be incredibly confusing to the kid involved. They would be left to wonder without the help of honest discussion.

So for me, talking about giftedness or whatever we want to call it isn't about claiming status or looking for entitlements, but at the very core about being honest about what is not only obvious to us after ten years with our son but obvious to strangers who spend five minutes with him. It isn't particularly important to me that it be called gifted. We could call it Fred for all I care. It is important though that we have an honest way to talk about it.


Very well put.

thank you.

-Angela
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#562 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 06:19 PM
 
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Frankly it seems like a lot of work to do all that pretending and it seems to me really dishonest.
I'm not pretending. I fully believe that children will have unique and individual needs which should be met. If you can only think of another viewpoint as being deliberately dishonest them I'm sure you didn't understand my post well enough to dismiss it like that.

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#563 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 07:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama
I'm not pretending. I fully believe that children will have unique and individual needs which should be met. If you can only think of another viewpoint as being deliberately dishonest them I'm sure you didn't understand my post well enough to dismiss it like that.
Let's try this. Let's say hypothetically you have an eight, nine or ten year old who pretty much everywhere they go folks comment about their intelligence. Not the occasional well meaning grandma in the grocery store, but their friends, their family, neighbors, most everyone who meets them because it is that noticeable and striking. The child is confused because while everyone they know likes different things and there is nothing unusual about that. But, the child, just like everyone else can't help but notice it isn't just a matter of interests but that there are significant differences in certain abilities and that his are so different that it draws a lot of commentary. So the the difference comes not from what you've called it or from a score on an IQ test, but instead from a difference in ability that the child and other people recognize as a child functioning in ways that are much more common typically for adults than for children.

Would you acknowledge this to your child. What sorts of things would you say? What words would you use? Would you pretend everyone else at the college was just taller - or you'd acknowledge they were older, but not allow discussion of how that relates to abilities?
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#564 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 07:42 PM
 
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Snakes on a plane! This thread has suddenly taken a turn for the worse. I'm jettin'...
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#565 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 09:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna
Slightly OT-

I DO think that we need some stickies in place in the new forum stating that it is a support forum- like queer parenting has- not a place to question validity. Cynthia is agreeable if we put something together.

-Angela
I think it's absolutely necessary.

Truthfully? The issue here isn't whether people disagree with me or not. I would invite them to spend some time with my child because I know their minds would be changed VERY quickly. But I choose not to let my child be around negativity like that. They can disagree all they want, but I want (and deserve) some protection from their bashing and the challenges they're throwing (as part of their disbelief). Why can't we have some respect - whether others agree with it or not. Not everyone here agrees with gays having kids, but would they dare to go into the QP forum and challenge them? Or start a thread in a different form discussing them? NO! And if they did they'd quickly get set straight (hopefully it wouldn't matter if they were a moderator or not - anyone doing the wrong thing should be given a warning).

It's not our place to educate the people who have no understanding of this if all they're seeking is debate and to try to convince us that we're wrong. If they're truly seeking information and a way to support us or looking for ways to effectively deal with gifted kids in society I'm more than happy to help out.
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#566 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 09:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dar
One of the things I was thinking was that my feelings about the "gifted" label are very similar to my feelings about the "indigo child" and "crystal child" labels. I, personally, don't buy into those labels.
Have the brains of indigo and crystal children been scientifically and medically proven to function in a different way than 'regular' children? No. Then your comparison is shoddy.

Once again - children with brains which scientifically and medically function differently to the norm - ASD, ADHD, etc ... but in a way which is perceived by society to be negative, all get support. As soon as children with a brain which scientifically and medically functions differently to the norm through giftedness is mentioned the support stops and the bashing, minimisation, challenging and ridicule start.

How about we start a thread here in Parenting with the title 'Anyone wanna talk about the conception of "autistic" status in children?' and start theorising that it doesn't exist, or that it's just a label which is unnecessary, or the parents are just looking for attention. I bet that would be a real success.
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#567 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 09:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Roar
I was thinking about the thread while I was driving this morning too, but we had very different thoughts. I was driving my ten year old to the university where he studies.

I thought... We could refuse to use the word gifted. We could refuse to label it. We could pretend that there isn't anything unusual about this and it is just different like everyone likes a different kind of food or a different sport. We could pretend the IQ and standardized test results are really random and no more meaningful than a lottery number or a horoscope. We could pretend that what makes this difference is noticeable is if we talk about it or label it. We could pretend that if we don't name it he'll never notice and neither will anyone else. We could pretend no one including him is aware that he's half the age of the other students. We could pretend it is all just a matter of interests and not of abilities and really any kid who had the interest would need this sort of work and do just fine with it.

Frankly it seems like a lot of work to do all that pretending and it seems to me really dishonest. I'm not sure why anyone would put the effort into that kind of pretending or what would be accomplished by it. It also seems like it could be incredibly confusing to the kid involved. They would be left to wonder without the help of honest discussion.

So for me, talking about giftedness or whatever we want to call it isn't about claiming status or looking for entitlements, but at the very core about being honest about what is not only obvious to us after ten years with our son but obvious to strangers who spend five minutes with him. It isn't particularly important to me that it be called gifted. We could call it Fred for all I care. It is important though that we have an honest way to talk about it.
Bravo!
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#568 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 09:50 PM
 
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ot everyone here agrees with gays having kids, but would they dare to go into the QP forum and challenge them? Or start a thread in a different form discussing them? NO!
I am sure threads were started outside the QP forum that reflected disagreement on that issue here. I can think of at least one topic that was/is banned because of the heat it generated.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#569 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama
I am sure threads were started outside the QP forum that reflected disagreement on that issue here. I can think of at least one topic that was/is banned because of the heat it generated.
Exactly! You're not allowed to do it. Why? Because it's wrong. It should be the same for this.
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#570 of 927 Old 08-02-2006, 09:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by heartmama
For the record, I am not saying I want to argue, but that I want to express my concern over our school system whether or not everyone agrees with my concerns. Obviously I could not do that in a support forum.
Perhaps you don't realise how offensive and argumentative your posts sound to someone with a gifted child who has special needs resulting from the giftedness?

It's possible to have a non-supportive discussion about the school system and your concerns without resorting to the 'giftedness doesn't really exist' debate. I'm not sure where the trouble lies.
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