Don't cops have anything better to do? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-05-2006, 12:35 AM
 
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Yet again, I DON'T agree that he was looking out for my daughter's safety. I believe he was LOOKING for a reason to write a ticket but couldn't find one and just used it as an excuse.

Being late for school is not life threatening BUT according to schools around here , this would NOT be an excused tardy and if you reach three the CHILD is punished.

Also, again, my daughter was NOT IMPROPERTLY RESTRAINED.
What is it that makes you feel so strongly that he didn't care about your dd's safety since you weren't even there?
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:38 AM
 
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You know, I have yet to see anyone address when "looking out for others' safety" goes too far. How is this any different than some fascist police state government putting cameras on every corner, searching us in our homes with no warrant or warning, controlling the goods we can buy, disallowing us from travelling with more than 3 oz. of shampoo, etc? I remember when I was a kid and "papers, please" was a phrase out of stories my grandfather told about "those damn commies", ie, the Soviet Union and China. Now it's a reality of the country I live in. : And all because people gave an inch and the Dubya administration took a mile. I can't believe I'm seeing people on MDC cheering this sort of thing. What are you going to do when "for your kids' safety" they force you to vax, hospital birth, public school?
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by tayndrewsmama View Post
What is it that makes you feel so strongly that he didn't care about your dd's safety since you weren't even there?
Because dh said once he was informed of DD's age and weight he simply whined that she was borderline, (which she is NOT) and should be in a booster.

If he felt it WAS for her safety he should have said something to the effect that while the law is this, research says this and maybe you should research it or something.
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What are you going to do when "for your kids' safety" they force you to vax, hospital birth, public school?
Then I would be in trouble since I no longer vax, I am waiting for a homebirth, (notice today's due date,) and I am home schooling the younger kids.

I totally agree that in the name of protection government has gone/is going too far.
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:47 AM
 
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I just want to thank shannon0218 for her replies in defense of the cop.
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How about considering this. Maybe that officer has recently been called to an accident where a child close to YOUR child's age has died. Maybe while at that accident where he noticed that everyone else in the car had survived with minor injuries he realized that the child he had to stand over and wait for the coroner to "pronounce" probably would have lived had she been properly restrained. Maybe, just maybe, your dd had the same colour hair, or the same length or whatever and maybe that caused a flashback for him that made him feel the need to check on your daughter. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, he wasnt' an asswhole afterall, maybe he was a father who'd seen a child die and it was eating him up inside. Maybe.
Wonderfully put, an excelent point.

Monica , DH :cop , DD (8) , DS1 (5) , DS2 (2/09) , and the pup
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:52 AM
 
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Because dh said once he was informed of DD's age and weight he simply whined that she was borderline, (which she is NOT) and should be in a booster.

If he felt it WAS for her safety he should have said something to the effect that while the law is this, research says this and maybe you should research it or something.
Maybe he's not all that articulate with the whole "studies say" speech. If that's really the only basis that he was harassing your dh, I don't think it would go very far in filing a complaint.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:23 AM
 
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Yet again, I DON'T agree that he was looking out for my daughter's safety. I believe he was LOOKING for a reason to write a ticket but couldn't find one and just used it as an excuse.

Being late for school is not life threatening BUT according to schools around here , this would NOT be an excused tardy and if you reach three the CHILD is punished.

Also, again, my daughter was NOT IMPROPERTLY RESTRAINED.

You don't know he was looking for a reason to write a ticket. I'm sorry but cops have better things to do.

I disagree about your daughter being improperly restrained, that's my opinion and I will continue to state it as such.

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Old 11-05-2006, 01:33 AM
 
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As a rule, what makes a good cop is not the ability to communicate emotions.
TBH, I've been there, I've had the flashbacks, after one accident that I described here, I didn't sleep for 13 days, when I went to the doctor for drugs to MAKE me sleep, I was unable to articulate what was going on in my brain. It's unfortunate but the qualities that make a person a GOOD first responder, also tend to mean they are downright lousy at articulating what is going on in their heads. I am better able to describe over the internet what the potential of a child in an accident makes me feel than I could EVER do in person. I've been in the "game" long enough to know that's normal.
Ya know, I remember, a few years ago a thread like this came up, I was not yet a mother but pregnant. I'd been a volunteer fire fighter (in these parts that means a first responder) and a SAR dog handler for a few years though. There was a thread, someone's neighbor repeatedly leaving the house (or office or whatever) with their children unrestrained. I brought up a call I'd been on.
Young child, he was tired when she picked him up, he wanted to sleep in the back seat....mom let him. NOW as a mom, I have sympathy for her, at the time, I had nothing but hatred. I responded to a car in the ditch/personal injury call. It was on my road, so I was there before any other responders. I arrived to find a frantic mother, a fairly undamaged car and an unlocatable toddler. I looked at the car and there was a hole in the right hand side of the windshield.
I took down info, I did a preliminary search. When the rest of my team got there we decided that the SAFEST way to search for this child was with a K9 unit. The angle of the hole in the windshield suggested where the child was, we knew that a human looking through that brush may result in one of us, all over 150 lbs stepping on the child. I was asked to return to my house and pick up my search dog. I ask you now to put yourself in the position of one of us. A toddler was MISSING. What is your main response?? FIND him, find him NOW. But your training tells you there is a safer way...that safer way requires time...only 10 minutes, but TIME none the less. As a first responder the # one thing you've been trained in is that TIME is your enemy...but you have to weigh the difference between a 150 lb human stepping on the child to find him with the possibility that the dog would find him and alert without ever touching him. Then question yourself for months...years even as to wether he'd have lived if you'd searched before that dog got there (and having a volunteer on the unit...that's HUGE...a dog was brought to that scene within 25 minutes of the accident...it's usualy closer to 90 minutes)

I posted to that thread that I was ANGRY at the mother, I posted how mad I was that I had been reprimanded for yelling at the crying mother. At the time all I could think of was that I knew my search dog would not eat for a good week now. The ONLY mental reference I had to this was the reaction of my dog. I know now as a parent, how cruel I was to be SO angry at a mother who simply didn't want to wake her child....however, all these years later, what is still in my mind?? Sleeping on the floor with my dog because he found a dead child. I'm STILL angry. That child wasn't unrestrained because she couldnt' afford a car seat..there was one in the car, that child was unrestrained for convenience reasons. Convenience reasons that 19 times out of 20 would have never resulted in ANYTHING, but this time, it resulted in a lifetime of blame for a mother, a lifetime of flashbacks and nightmares for a first responder, a week of no eating for DOG...a dog that had NO responsibilty to anyone in the equation. That was SO many years ago and I still have nightmares.
THAT is how that one split second choice affected ME. I can't even IMAGINE how it affected that mother. Now that I'm a parent, I can totally see her reasoning....but I know of 9 people and one dog that were forever changed by that night.
Is it SO out there that maybe this horrible cop was in fact truley worried about your dd???
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You don't know he was looking for a reason to write a ticket. I'm sorry but cops have better things to do.

I disagree about your daughter being improperly restrained, that's my opinion and I will continue to state it as such.
Well according to the LAW she was not and in this post that is all that matters.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:39 AM
 
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Well according to the LAW she was not and in this post that is all that matters.
...and according to you, your dh didn't get a ticket and all that was lost was a few minutes of time, which harmed no one.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Is it SO out there that maybe this horrible cop was in fact truley worried about your dd???
Yes, to me it is, because my dd was NOT improperly restrained. Furthermore for those of you who claim it is too hard to tell an age accurately in a moving car, how is it he would know that she wasn't in a booster seat? The seat would have been out of his line of sight anyway.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:40 AM
 
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As a rule, what makes a good cop is not the ability to communicate emotions.
TBH, I've been there, I've had the flashbacks, after one accident that I described here, I didn't sleep for 13 days, when I went to the doctor for drugs to MAKE me sleep, I was unable to articulate what was going on in my brain. It's unfortunate but the qualities that make a person a GOOD first responder, also tend to mean they are downright lousy at articulating what is going on in their heads. I am better able to describe over the internet what the potential of a child in an accident makes me feel than I could EVER do in person. I've been in the "game" long enough to know that's normal.
Ya know, I remember, a few years ago a thread like this came up, I was not yet a mother but pregnant. I'd been a volunteer fire fighter (in these parts that means a first responder) and a SAR dog handler for a few years though. There was a thread, someone's neighbor repeatedly leaving the house (or office or whatever) with their children unrestrained. I brought up a call I'd been on.
Young child, he was tired when she picked him up, he wanted to sleep in the back seat....mom let him. NOW as a mom, I have sympathy for her, at the time, I had nothing but hatred. I responded to a car in the ditch/personal injury call. It was on my road, so I was there before any other responders. I arrived to find a frantic mother, a fairly undamaged car and an unlocatable toddler. I looked at the car and there was a hole in the right hand side of the windshield.
I took down info, I did a preliminary search. When the rest of my team got there we decided that the SAFEST way to search for this child was with a K9 unit. The angle of the hole in the windshield suggested where the child was, we knew that a human looking through that brush may result in one of us, all over 150 lbs stepping on the child. I was asked to return to my house and pick up my search dog. I ask you now to put yourself in the position of one of us. A toddler was MISSING. What is your main response?? FIND him, find him NOW. But your training tells you there is a safer way...that safer way requires time...only 10 minutes, but TIME none the less. As a first responder the # one thing you've been trained in is that TIME is your enemy...but you have to weigh the difference between a 150 lb human stepping on the child to find him with the possibility that the dog would find him and alert without ever touching him. Then question yourself for months...years even as to wether he'd have lived if you'd searched before that dog got there (and having a volunteer on the unit...that's HUGE...a dog was brought to that scene within 25 minutes of the accident...it's usualy closer to 90 minutes)

I posted to that thread that I was ANGRY at the mother, I posted how mad I was that I had been reprimanded for yelling at the crying mother. At the time all I could think of was that I knew my search dog would not eat for a good week now. The ONLY mental reference I had to this was the reaction of my dog. I know now as a parent, how cruel I was to be SO angry at a mother who simply didn't want to wake her child....however, all these years later, what is still in my mind?? Sleeping on the floor with my dog because he found a dead child. I'm STILL angry. That child wasn't unrestrained because she couldnt' afford a car seat..there was one in the car, that child was unrestrained for convenience reasons. Convenience reasons that 19 times out of 20 would have never resulted in ANYTHING, but this time, it resulted in a lifetime of blame for a mother, a lifetime of flashbacks and nightmares for a first responder, a week of no eating for DOG...a dog that had NO responsibilty to anyone in the equation. That was SO many years ago and I still have nightmares.
THAT is how that one split second choice affected ME. I can't even IMAGINE how it affected that mother. Now that I'm a parent, I can totally see her reasoning....but I know of 9 people and one dog that were forever changed by that night.
Is it SO out there that maybe this horrible cop was in fact truley worried about your dd???
Thanks for sharing this Shannon. That couldn't be easy to write out.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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...and according to you, your dh didn't get a ticket and all that was lost was a few minutes of time, which harmed no one.
Being pulled over for bogus reasons so a cop has an excuse to see if he can find something else is harmful. It is an abuse of power.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:52 AM
 
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Again, since you constantly fail to even acknowledge it. Can you PLEASE just consider for a freakin SECOND that the officer may have recently experienced something that caused him to react the way he did.
Like I said before, cops that are looking to ticket someone for the sake of ticketning someone....they have something in mind before they EVER turn their lights on.
And AGAIN, if you REALLY feel that there was no excuse for this stop, DO something about it. Decide to make a difference. Decide to be the change you want to see. I can assure you that bitching here about those terrible cops isn't going to change the way the police do business in your state.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:52 AM
 
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So, are you or are you not going to pursue filing a complaint about this?
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:54 AM
 
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ITA. I volunteer patrol with local law enforcement and the above is pretty accurate. Most "quota" programs have been dissolved and done away with and actually in some departments, never existed to begin with.

DC
"quotas" are gone, but if you do not meet "productivity" levels, you can and will get written up, not promoted, and if it continues.... fired.
You have to prove what you have been up to on your shift....there have been many officers, in many departments that have been "caught" doing things that are not good... look up "Lara, Eugene PD." if you want examples.
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Old 11-05-2006, 02:09 AM
 
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Being pulled over for bogus reasons so a cop has an excuse to see if he can find something else is harmful. It is an abuse of power.

An abuse of power? Please. He didn't even write you a ticket. You have no proof he was pulling you over as an "excuse" to find something harmful. That's just a theory of yours and I don't believe it for a second.

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Old 11-05-2006, 02:29 AM
 
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"quotas" are gone, but if you do not meet "productivity" levels, you can and will get written up, not promoted, and if it continues.... fired.
You have to prove what you have been up to on your shift....there have been many officers, in many departments that have been "caught" doing things that are not good... look up "Lara, Eugene PD." if you want examples.
Yep, and pulling over someone without a reason to write a ticket pretty much offers proof of doing something "not good" thus the reason that lazy cops don't pull over someone without having a ticket already to be written before their lights go on.
Sorry, it just doesn't add up.
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Old 11-05-2006, 02:31 AM
 
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Looking at the list of seat belt laws by state, does anyone know anything about Tennessee? It says that children 8 and under need to be in child safety devices and ages 9-16 either in a booster or a seat belt. Does that mean that all eight year olds need to be in a five point harness? (That's awesome, but I know many many 8 year olds don't fit in most five point harnesses; other than perhaps the Regent. Personally, I'd buy the Regent, but I'm just trying to understand what it's saying.) Or is it saying that 8 and under need to be in some form of child safety device, including booster?
I dont know if anyone answered you or not but here is what the law in tn is and means:

Child seat laws July 1, 2005

Quote:
Children under 1 year of age OR weighing less than 20 pounds must be in a child restraint ["car seat"] in a rear facing position (in the rear seat if available).

Children 1 through 3 years of age AND weighing more than 20 pounds must be in a child passenger restraint ["car seat"] system in a forward facing position (in the rear seat if available).

Children 4 through 8 years of age AND measuring less than 4 feet 9 inches in height must be in a belt positioning booster seat system (in the rear seat if available).

Children 9 through 12 years of age AND measuring at least 4 feet 9 inches in height must use a seat belt system [vehicle seat belts] meeting federal motor safety standards (in the rear seat if available).

Children 13 through 15 years of age must use a passenger restraint system [vehicle seat belts] meeting federal highway standards.
My translation of the above law:
Children under 1 year of age and weighing under 20 pounds OR weighing less than 20 pounds but over a year old, must be in a child restraint ["car seat"] in a rear facing position (in the rear seat if available).

Children 1 through 3 years of age AND weighing more than 20 pounds must be in a child passenger restraint ["car seat"] system in a forward facing position (in the rear seat if available).

Children 4 through 8 years of age AND measuring less than 4 feet 9 inches(57in.) in height must be in a belt positioning booster seat system (in the rear seat if available).

Children 9 through 12 years of age AND measuring at least 4 feet 9 inches in height must use a seat belt system [vehicle seat belts] meeting federal motor safety standards (in the rear seat if available).

Children 13 through 15 years of age must use a passenger restraint system [vehicle seat belts] meeting federal highway standards.


In other words if you child is over 9-12yo but isnt 4ft 9in tall they still have to be in a booster.

Quote:
Independent of regulations, children between the ages of 4 and 8, or weighing under 80 lbs, should sit in a booster seat. So if your child is under 80pds but over 8yo they still need to be in a booster.
Quote:
Safety advocates recommend keeping children in booster seats until they are about 57 inches tall. The child's height is the best predictor of proper seat belt fit.

The wording of the law needs to be made more easy to understand. It is confusing to the avg person ie ME and I had to read and reread and then type it out the way I think it should have been put into the law.

 
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Old 11-05-2006, 03:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Again, since you constantly fail to even acknowledge it. Can you PLEASE just consider for a freakin SECOND that the officer may have recently experienced something that caused him to react the way he did.
Like I said before, cops that are looking to ticket someone for the sake of ticketning someone....they have something in mind before they EVER turn their lights on.
And AGAIN, if you REALLY feel that there was no excuse for this stop, DO something about it. Decide to make a difference. Decide to be the change you want to see. I can assure you that bitching here about those terrible cops isn't going to change the way the police do business in your state.
I have not failed to acknowledge it. I don't BELIEVE IT. There is a huge difference. As far as filing a complaint, my DH would have to do it since HE was the one pulled over and he doesn't think it is worth the effort.

BTW, I wasn't "bitching" I was venting about something I felt was ridiculous. But thanks for reducing my concerns to nothing but "bitching." (In a completely different forum to begin with. The only reason it was moved was because OTHERS changed the intent of the thread.)

Now if you don't mind, I have better things to do than to trade barbs with you. Like going back to waiting for this baby to come out.
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Old 11-05-2006, 03:24 AM
 
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Actually Tina, you have failed to acknowledge it, acknowleging it would mean saying "yeah, sure, maybe last week he bagged a kid that looked a lot like my dd but by the way my dh explained it the officer was just a jerk"
You haven't acknowledged that there could possibly be any other reason than a quota seeking jerk of a cop. Sorry, you did acknowledge that perhaps that cop was also racist or classist....you never once acknowledged that he may have had genuine reasons for pulling over your dh.
Honestly, from that last post I get that your dh....the one pulled over didn't think it was any big deal, no ticket was written, no damage was done (other than a late student...and I'm guessing a quick trip into the office or even a phone call later explaining the situation would have erased that issue)
You are unwilling to make a complaint, siting various excuses why that would not work (and you actually CAN make a complaint even if you were not the one driving....it just takes a letter like "The other day my dh was pulled over for NO reason") so frankly...yes, it was bitching. Honestly, I see NOTHING wrong with bitching, nothing at ALL. I have a major lead foot, I've been pulled over and I've bitched about it, even when I knew I was technically in the wrong. The problem I have is that you do indeed refuse to even consider that this officer may have had a very valid reason for the pull over---even if that reason was not articulated to your dh at the time. If you are so certain that infact he is just a racist, classist idiot, I'm assuming you've also done some checks to see that he's brand new out of the academy and has never had any involvement in an accident where a child was killed....ummmm yeah, I didn't think so.
Really, I've always found you to be a very level headed poster, pretty straight forward but I quite honestly found your view of this officer to be really offensive. I found it more offensive that any alternative to what you felt even though you weren't there was met with "nope, not possible"
I hope the baby comes out soon, I can certainly understand that making even little things far more stressful than normal. I just don't think an officer's career needs to be lambbasted without actual facts.
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Old 11-05-2006, 05:02 AM
 
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"quotas" are gone, but if you do not meet "productivity" levels, you can and will get written up, not promoted, and if it continues.... fired. .
Not in my city PD. Can't speak to any other city nor can you.

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You have to prove what you have been up to on your shift....there have been many officers, in many departments that have been "caught" doing things that are not good... look up "Lara, Eugene PD." if you want examples.
There are bad seeds that are cops. No where did I mention there weren't. Cases such as Eugene happen all over unfortunately. I still think about Rodney King. But this thread isn't about that. Or is it? There seems to be the feeling from a few posters including the OP, that the police have too much power and that all of them abuse it.
Reminds me of some of the "I got a speeding ticket and don't deserve it, how can I get out of it? type of threads. Only in this case, there was NO ticket. And the OP is really peeved. Yet will not file a report and when told that she really should, she comes up with excuses as to why she can't.

AniT....you've lost me on this one. There's more to this story than what you are telling us.
At any rate, since you are due any day now, I'd probably stop reading this thread and save yourself any stress. You have been around long enough to know that most venting threads, turn into debate.


DC
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Old 11-05-2006, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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AniT....you've lost me on this one. There's more to this story than what you are telling us.
At any rate, since you are due any day now, I'd probably stop reading this thread and save yourself any stress. You have been around long enough to know that most venting threads, turn into debate.


DC

Yea. I'm done.

We will just have to agree to disagree over some of these issues.
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Old 11-05-2006, 05:21 AM
 
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Here's to a happy healthy baby AniT.

DC
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Old 11-05-2006, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's to a happy healthy baby AniT.

DC
Thanks
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