What is so bad about Tylenol and Ibuprofen? - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-23-2003, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I ahve heard mention of the fact that these things are bad for babies. I don't want opinion, I want the cold hard facts. If this will harm my baby I won't use it. She is teething and in a lot of pain. With my son we used all homeopathic remedies and he was fine but my daughter is in a lot more pain than he was. Without tylenol she wakes to nurse every 45 minutes all night and I can't cope with that! So what is so bad about tylenol and ibuprofen?

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
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Old 04-23-2003, 11:35 PM
 
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I recently switched from Tylenol to Ibuprofen. I haven't heard anything about the negative effects of Ibuprofen. I did read (sorry no link) that recent studies have shown that Tylenol use in children can lead to liver damage later in life. Mind you, I think this means with fairly consistent use. I don't really know the dosage amounts that are dangerous or anything so I'm not much help. With my oldest I never wanted to use anything. Then she got 8 teeth in two weeks. She was in pain and was feverish and not happy. I decided that while noble it might be to have a drug-free baby, it was not the right thing for her. I have probably taken Tylenol less than once a year for the last 10 years but when I feel like I *need* it, I want it, ykwim?

Sorry, I couldn't help more.

Peace.
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:18 AM
 
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Heavenly,

I give both my children the mentioned medications when it is needed. Though I have come across a few things about liver damage and stomach damage that was in children where these medications were abused and over medication was taking place. If your daughter is in pain feel comfortable giving her tylenol. Occassional use will not harm her.

Kim
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:24 AM
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Have you done a Search here for those terms? That might yield some good info.

Honestly, my son is 14 months and has never gone 45 minutes without nursing during the night! I thought that was normal because that's all I know.

This has some good info (primarily on fevers but some like Dr. Sears say fever can accompany teething):
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...threadid=25552

I don't like tylenol for babes b/c I think it is way too hard on their little livers to process that stuff. Doesn't seem right at all. We used Hyland's and nursed alot. Yes, it is extremely hard.
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Old 04-24-2003, 01:09 AM
 
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Ibuprofen can damage livers too! But I think that in either case it's due to excessive use or over-doseage. I'd use them myself, Have you tried an herbal remedy rather than an homeopathic one?

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Old 04-24-2003, 01:15 AM
 
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Tylenol is metabolized in the liver by two enzyme pathways (let's call them A and B). Pathway A is the main one, and when used normally, in the recommended doses, it's the only one. But when there is too much Tylenol, when too much is given, then Pathway A gets "full" and pathway B comes into play. pathway B creates, as a byproduct, free radicals that damage liver tissue. That's why Tylenol is dangerous when overdosed OR in patients with compromised liver function.

I use Tylenol when I think my baby needs it, but I don't jump for it every time, y'know? So my opinion is that it is perfectly safe when you use the recommended doses and don't overuse it.

PS - Ibuprofen works differently and is metabolized differently than Tylenol (acetominophen). I can't remember offhand the specifics of Ibuprofen.

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Old 04-24-2003, 01:16 AM
 
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I give my dd Ibuprofin when she's hurting. It's not often, but sometimes it helps us get through the day. I've heard that both cause liver damage if abused, but Ibuprofin lasts 8 hours vs. Tylenol lasting 4 hours so that made the decision for us.

Darshani

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Old 04-24-2003, 02:29 AM
 
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They both cause liver damage. Read the package insert.

Why give a small baby something like that when there are more natural methods and less harmful ways of pain relief and fever reducing?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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Old 04-24-2003, 03:04 AM
 
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Around here, we use tylenol and ibuprophin for pain, but not for fever. I strongly beleive that fever is neccessary for the immune system to function properly...although, this is really hard to stick with when your little one is sick.

Pain, on the other hand, is not critical to immune function. I agree that they don't need to have all the pain knocked out...sometimes you need some pain to signal yourself to slow down, but agonizing teething pain just isn't neccessary. I don't like to use oragel, except every once in a while at night, because they need to feel the urge to chew to get those teeth broken through. I do try to use hylands teething tablets first, and 95% of the time that works, but when ds is cutting 6+ teeth at once (did that for all his front teeth, and now cutting 6-8 molars at once), and he is just screaming in agony, and whimpering while nursing, there is no way I can just stand by and watch. I usually use half the intended dose to start with and then add to it if it doesn't seem to help.

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Old 04-24-2003, 04:15 AM
 
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I avoid Tylenol but use ibuprophin when my daughter has tooth related pain. It seems to last longer according to everything I have read. I do not have any links but have read that most of the problems come from overdosing and over long periods of time. (logical I guess) Also the first time I used it I used it during the day so I could monitor any possible reactions she may have. I also buy the dye free option so as to avoid as much artifical color etc.

I have also become a huge fan of Oragel which I am sure has many bad qualities but my daughter's teeth come in four at a time and she goes crazy at night and bites anything in sight. I also wet the corner of a cloth and freeze it and have a few ready for at night. When she was nursing this approach saved me from getting literally gnawed upon. I know you probably have already tried tons of stuff and if nothing is working I see nothing wrong with using medication, there is nothing good about a child in pain.

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Old 04-24-2003, 10:40 AM
 
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Ibuprophin is much more likely to cause kidney damage than liver damage, since it's metabolized in the kidneys. I know that most mainstream doctors don't have any problems with Tylenol, as long as it's administered properly. Since the packaging doesn't give dosage information for young babies, you have to be sure that the doctor's office understands which type you're using. The infant drops are actually more concentrated than the drops for older children, since it's harder to get each drop down a tiny baby's mouth.

I do personally know of at least one pediatrician who advises not giving children Ibuprophin unless absolutely necessary (like if there is a fever so high that it has to be brought down and Tylenol and other remedies aren't working). He says that Ibuprophin can cause kidney damage over time, and he thinks that using it as your main drug of choice from the time a child is young is greatly increasing the chances of kidney failure when the child grows up. He is only one doctor, but he's actually a very mainstream doctor who likes to treat things medically that I wouldn't even consider treating at all. For that reason, I've decided to make Tylenol my main drug of choice if we ever do need it, but that's just my choice. I suppose my outlook would be a lot different if I didn't know that one doctor.
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:53 AM
 
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Piglet68=smart cookie!

Moderation is my guide. During Jackson's first year we used Tylenol twice, both times when he was crying inconsolably from teething pain. Well, in the last few months he has cut 6 stinkin' molars, and they hurt more! He has had 3 or 4 doses in the last few months. This feels reasonable and moderate to me. We have a whole box of homeopathic remedies that we reach for first, along with non-med remedies (like cold stuff). But, when he is clearly in pain (and now he signs 'pain' sometimes to let us know), I reach for the Tylenol...
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Old 04-24-2003, 02:38 PM
 
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No medication is too terrible if used in moderation or sparingly.

We've also picked up Hyland's Teething Tablets for Goo. They help calm her down, but Ibu is still the thing that helps her pain go away.
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Old 04-24-2003, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"Why give a small baby something like that when there are more natural methods and less harmful ways of pain relief and fever reducing?"
Because it doesn't work! I thought i made it clear that I have tried all the homeopathic remedies. I have teething tablets, hylands teething gel, a homeopathic liquid called consolin. During the day they work but at night it doesn't cut it. She is in agony and I see no reason to do that to her. I used to feel the same way as you, when I had a child who took teething witha grain of salt. He was uncomfortable but nothing to drastic and all the homeopathic stuff worked great. he didn't have any tylenol until over a year. With her she is just in much more pain than some babies are. I can't look at my baby screaming and thrashing and in too much pain to even nurse and not do something. I agree with the person who said that may be all noble but not good for the baby. Not being able to nurse from the pain is not good IMO. Of course I am concerned about the possible side effects but everthing can cause damage if overused or misused. I think we'll just use it in moderation.

Shawna, married to Michael, mommy to Elijah 1/18/01, Olivia 11/9/02, and Eliana 1/22/06
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:01 PM
 
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From what I've read, the advserse events associated with infant Tylenol or Ibuprofen (either immediate or later in life) are almost all related to A) overdoses, B) long-term use, C) drug interactions when babies are taking numerous other drugs, D) allergic reaction to their ingredients, E) pediatric patients who already have hepatic or renal failure or diseases. There is no evidence that an appropriate dose here and there for teething pain is going to harm a healthy baby.

I am usually anti-med for my dd and ds, but I agree with other posts that say when a baby is in serious pain, that is not a good thing. We tried Hyland's Tablets, Hyland's Gel, Nature's Remedy, Children's, and several other "natural" or homeopathic teething remedies and they didn't touch my dd's most severe teething pain; I found they were better for the more nagging pains of teething, not the acute, up-in-the-middle-of-the-night screaming. So I gave a half-dose of Tylenol (at 22 lbs, that's a little less than 1 dropper/0.8ml) when needed, which amounted to maybe a dozen doses during the couple of weeks she was in the most pain. I also did a lot of other remedies like having her chew on cold washcloths and so on. The Tylenol was a magic bullet though.

I agree that you should feel comfortable giving your baby a little Tylenol if you want. I'm not trying to say at all that parents who choose homeopathy are misinformed or whatever, rather that parents who choose to use Tylenol or Ibuprofen occasionally should not feel bad about doing so.

[Edited to add more background on my dd's teething.]
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Old 04-27-2003, 05:21 PM
 
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I had the same concerns with using Tylenol and Motrin because my little guy was an ICU baby and the narcotics and chemicals they gave him was horrible!!!! i was so worried about his liver and kidney function. I feel so guilty giving him tylenol and motrin because i wanted to "clean" out his system. kwim?

And now when i do give those meds to him for his teething its like candy...it doesn't even touch his pain. Which makes me worry about drug tolerance.

Any mommy with ICU babies have similar concerns?

Thanks
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