Ugh! Here comes Santa Claus. - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 10:47 AM
 
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Oh come on. If I knew that you believed in God, and your child asks me if there is a God, I would respect your beliefs and go along the lines of "that's what many people believe." I wouldn't say flat out no, even though I think that God is as much of a lie as Santa is, and could make the same argument you are making about it. It's about having some basic respect for the beliefs of others.
: I think that is a great analogy. I think god, in particular a Christian God, is a completely fictional character. However, not in a million years would I disrespect someone's beliefs or traditions by telling their child that. At best, if pushed after the "What do you think?" answer, I would say that I personally do not believe in God but that many people do and that is what keeps things interesting, that we all have different ideas and traditions. Blah, blah, blah.

"There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death." -Isaac Asimov read.gif

 
 
 
 

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#122 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 10:47 AM
 
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ANd I think you Nicole, should do the same.
And perhaps rethinking your definition of tradition would most likely be beneficial as well.

I do agree we will not see eye to eye on this and will bow out of this thread.

To the mamas who have chosen truth over trend: thank you.
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#123 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 10:58 AM
 
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We do not lie to our dd so we will never tell her santa is real. It is not really an issue to me what others think. This year she is happy to play along with the idea that he is some sort of cartoon character. She has absorbed the guy from outside of the home. We do get her a santa present. But when the time comes that there is a discussion, we will explain that it is a myth and that we like to pretend for the fun of it.

But, I am posting to address the people that are worried about others not lying to their kids to perpetuate the myth. I also would not lie to a child that asked me straight up if santa is real. BUT, I have to say that any kid that is asking point blank questions about santa, to people other than thier parents, needs to be told anyway. They are seeking the answer to something that is troubling them. If a child was unsatisfied with the answers he/she were getting from parents and then felt the need to start asking others, it is time for them to know. I would not lie, but I probably would not answer either. I would tell them they need to ask their parents. Many kids get very upset when they find out thier parents lied to them so it is probably best they get that info from the parents so they can try and do repair or justifications or whatever the plan is. If after all of that the kid still is asking me, I would tell the truth.
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#124 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 03:24 PM
 
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I would not lie, but I probably would not answer either. I would tell them they need to ask their parents.
I think that's a totally reasonable and respectful way to handle it. Getting on a high horse and insisting that you will indeed tell "the truth" to any child who asks if Santa is real is very disrespectful of different parenting styles.

We all do things differently and we all have disagreements. To trump your way as the only right way is ignorant.
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#125 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 04:02 PM
 
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I'm curious, if anyone wants to share-- Is there some common trait amongst people who were really traumatized by finding out their parents lied about Santa? More sensitive? Did your parents play it up really huge and try to deny it when you asked? I know I personally was a bit disappointed when I found out the fat man in the red suit didn't REALLY come down the chimney, but it wasn't that big of a deal. So much so that I can barely remember when it happened. I do remember thinking I really got one over on my parents when I figured out they were the tooth fairy but didn't tell them I knew. But I wasn't a particularly senstive child, and we were fairly strict Catholics, so Christmas was always more about Jesus than Santa anyway.

We do Santa, but we don't do it "big", if that makes sense. We don't go to any extra trouble to make it seem like he's been here-- different paper, sooty footprints, reindeer poop, none of that. We do leave out cookies, but pretty much because dh likes any excuse to eat cookies. Some presents are from Santa, some are from Mommy and Daddy. If you want your picture with the mall Santa, you can have it, if you don't, that's fine too. We certainly don't do "naughty or nice" or "Santa's watching you!". That kinda creeps me out.

But I worry a little, because dd is waaaaaaay more sensitive than I was as a kid. Of course, by the time I figured that out, we had already introduced Santa. So we've scaled it back. And if and when she asks, I'll tell her the truth as I see it....Santa's just a spirit of giving and holiday magic, not a real person. So anyway, that's why I was wondering if there was a common thread in those who were really upset by no Santa.
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#126 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 04:11 PM
 
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I'm curious, if anyone wants to share-- Is there some common trait amongst people who were really traumatized by finding out their parents lied about Santa? More sensitive? Did your parents play it up really huge and try to deny it when you asked? I know I personally was a bit disappointed when I found out the fat man in the red suit didn't REALLY come down the chimney, but it wasn't that big of a deal. So much so that I can barely remember when it happened. I do remember thinking I really got one over on my parents when I figured out they were the tooth fairy but didn't tell them I knew. But I wasn't a particularly senstive child, and we were fairly strict Catholics, so Christmas was always more about Jesus than Santa anyway.

We do Santa, but we don't do it "big", if that makes sense. We don't go to any extra trouble to make it seem like he's been here-- different paper, sooty footprints, reindeer poop, none of that. We do leave out cookies, but pretty much because dh likes any excuse to eat cookies. Some presents are from Santa, some are from Mommy and Daddy. If you want your picture with the mall Santa, you can have it, if you don't, that's fine too. We certainly don't do "naughty or nice" or "Santa's watching you!". That kinda creeps me out.

But I worry a little, because dd is waaaaaaay more sensitive than I was as a kid. Of course, by the time I figured that out, we had already introduced Santa. So we've scaled it back. And if and when she asks, I'll tell her the truth as I see it....Santa's just a spirit of giving and holiday magic, not a real person. So anyway, that's why I was wondering if there was a common thread in those who were really upset by no Santa.
I don't know. I was not traumatized in the slightest. My parents were and still are unflinchingly honest with us, and I never thought of Santa as a lie that my parents told me. I know that technically it is, but as a kid I never saw it that way. I was not an overly sensitive child. My younger sister was, though (and still is). She too was not traumatized when she was of the age when she asked and was told the truth by my dad. So I think it must have more to do with the relationship with the parents in general, and how the parents "did" Santa. I really have a hard time buying that a relationship that is otherwise built on trust and mutual respect is ruined because of Santa. But hey, I guess anything's possible.

I have no worries about how Santa is handled with my kids. I'm more worried about when I'm tired and burnt out and I snap at them. I think that has much more potential to damage our relationship.
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#127 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 04:16 PM
 
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without reading the entire thread...

we do "santa isn't real, it's just a fun game people like to play and we can play it too if you want... btw saint nicholas was a real person and he did xyz..."

it's worked well for us!
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#128 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 05:08 PM
 
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Ugh, gaga me with a spoon....we're experiencing htis horrid drama too!!! I am going to shove my mom up the damn chimney!!!! : And she's on this weird Jesus kick...which I, as a pagan, makes me really uncomfortable.
I personally feel, why go out of your way to involve Santa?
And...as a feminist,hardworking womyn, I'll quote my friend's mom "Why should some old,fat,white guy take all the credit for what I worked for and got excited about all year long?" And it's not about saying "See, DS, be gratefull to mama and papa- look at what we did for you" but at the same time..it's not right to give it to someone else.
And I am not into lying. It's lame. I never bought santa.
Plus, we celebrate X-mas with the fam in addition to our private solstice...gift giving and tree having(a live tree however that gets planted) for pure commercial purposes.
I like what you said Lisa Lubner. If DS ever wants to celebrate santa, fine why not and we can talk about where he comes from,etc. But I feel why go out of the way to do it,ya know?
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#129 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 05:12 PM
 
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Ugh, gaga me with a spoon....we're experiencing htis horrid drama too!!! I am going to shove my mom up the damn chimney!!!! : And she's on this weird Jesus kick...which I, as a pagan, makes me really uncomfortable.
I personally feel, why go out of your way to involve Santa?
And...as a feminist,hardworking womyn, I'll quote my friend's mom "Why should some old,fat,white guy take all the credit for what I worked for and got excited about all year long?" And it's not about saying "See, DS, be gratefull to mama and papa- look at what we did for you" but at the same time..it's not right to give it to someone else.
And I am not into lying. It's lame. I never bought santa.
Plus, we celebrate X-mas with the fam in addition to our private solstice...gift giving and tree having(a live tree however that gets planted) for pure commercial purposes.
lol. That whole post was quite humorous. I love it. lol

Just wanted to say that the difference between "God" and "Santa" (in re: to the analogy made earlier in this thread) is that the parents in the former DO believe God is real. Parents in the latter KNOW that Santa is not true.

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#130 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 06:40 PM
 
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lol. That whole post was quite humorous. I love it. lol

Just wanted to say that the difference between "God" and "Santa" (in re: to the analogy made earlier in this thread) is that the parents in the former DO believe God is real. Parents in the latter KNOW that Santa is not true.
Yes, but the parents have chosen to tell their child that God is real. Who am I to tell the child otherwise? I personally believe it is a lie, but I have respect for the parent's choice about what to tell their child.
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#131 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 08:12 PM
 
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I'm just kinda debating for debate's sake. I'm not going to tell a child that there is no such thing as Santa. Because I'd think that would be harsh for the child to find out that way, (or to be told that what they believe is untrue)kwim? If they were to keep pressing me, I don't know. Like I said, hopefully I'd have the presence of mind to tell them to talk to their parents about it.
I'm just saying that I don't mind if someone tells ds their personal beliefs, even if they disagree with mine. As long as they qualify it as THEIR belief, they don't say it as the TRUTH. kwim?
And yeah, I'll tell ds not to tell other kids that Santa's not real. That's not an issue for another couple years though. lol

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#132 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 08:32 PM
 
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I don't know. I was not traumatized in the slightest. My parents were and still are unflinchingly honest with us, and I never thought of Santa as a lie that my parents told me. I know that technically it is, but as a kid I never saw it that way. I was not an overly sensitive child. My younger sister was, though (and still is). She too was not traumatized when she was of the age when she asked and was told the truth by my dad. So I think it must have more to do with the relationship with the parents in general, and how the parents "did" Santa. I really have a hard time buying that a relationship that is otherwise built on trust and mutual respect is ruined because of Santa. But hey, I guess anything's possible.
I actually was a very sensitve kid but I never remember being upset about Santa. I don't remember when I found out but at some point I figured it out. I remember nothing but good feelings.

[/QUOTE]I have no worries about how Santa is handled with my kids. I'm more worried about when I'm tired and burnt out and I snap at them. I think that has much more potential to damage our relationship.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, me too.
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#133 of 141 Old 12-10-2006, 08:47 PM
 
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You scrooge!! LOLOLOL!!

In our family, *I* am the one who LOVES Xmas with all my heart... dh is the scrooge... he can't be bothered. WHATEVER!

One day last year, ds1 asked dh something about Santa and dh came out with "well *I* am Santa" (which, in fact, is the truth, right?) and we've just gone with that this year... the "rule is that ds can't tell his friends because it's a big "secret" etc... so, it works for us.

Yah.... so, I guess I won't be asking you to accompany us on our annual "find the tackiest house display" tour LOLOL
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#134 of 141 Old 12-11-2006, 11:42 AM
 
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without reading the entire thread...

we do "santa isn't real, it's just a fun game people like to play and we can play it too if you want... btw saint nicholas was a real person and he did xyz..."

it's worked well for us!
Same here. I just got a children's book about Saint Nicholas out of the library--a mixture of legend and possible facts. Haven't read it yet, but it looks pretty good. We also say that the idea of Santa Claus is the spirit of love and giving. We tell them not to tell other kids that Santa isn't real. As the kids get older, we'll also talk/read about the pagan origins of Christmas. We aren't Christian or pagan, but will eventually talk about Jesus as a teacher of love and explain that his birth is being celebrated at Christmas (even though it didn't actually occur on Dec. 25, etc...)

Heather, Mama to DS(10) DD(7.5),DD(6)
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#135 of 141 Old 12-11-2006, 06:06 PM
 
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Interesting thread.

Honestly, santa doesn't even come up here. Ds is almost 4 and he has no idea. It's just not part of our lives, we don't care about santa, and it's not part of our daily conversation so there's no reason for him to ask about it. We don't shield him from the outside world or shun santa, but we don't go for commercialism at the holidays so don't go to malls or go crazy with gifts so it simply isn't a part of our lives and he'd have no reason to bring it up.

We go to all kinds of holiday events and have a ball without santa- lights displays, live nativities, concerts, model train displays. We go on a holiday trolley ride, during which the trolley stops and santa gets on to talk to all the kids- he has no idea who it is and I guess figures it's a man in a red outfit saying hi.

When he gets gifts of course we say it's from mom and dad, or grandma or whoever- like PP said, why would I want to give credit to a fictional charactor when a loved one has gotten a gift for him.

I'm sure as he gets older friends might mention it or he might notice santa's presence- to me it's like mickey mouse or any other character- he might recognize who it's supposed to be but it has nothing to do with us or our daily lives. I have no problem saying 'this is what other kids think' if he were to ask. And of course I wouldn't want him to spill the beans to other children!

My parents did santa and the easter bunny, etc in a fun way for us growing up, but we never thought it was real, and I was the one to tell the other kids that santa was fake! my friend's mom was SOOO mad!! I certainly wouldn't want my kids to do that.
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#136 of 141 Old 12-12-2006, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You scrooge!! LOLOLOL!!

In our family, *I* am the one who LOVES Xmas with all my heart... dh is the scrooge... he can't be bothered. WHATEVER!

One day last year, ds1 asked dh something about Santa and dh came out with "well *I* am Santa" (which, in fact, is the truth, right?) and we've just gone with that this year... the "rule is that ds can't tell his friends because it's a big "secret" etc... so, it works for us.

Yah.... so, I guess I won't be asking you to accompany us on our annual "find the tackiest house display" tour LOLOL
:
I am totally up for the tackiest house display event if you are inviting. I also I am caroling fool. I *LOVE* to go xmas caroling. Just Santa...not such a fan.


myjulybabes I'll share that I was a very senstive child. Now, I know I had a bit of Sensory Integration issues myself. I found some gifts by accident when I was about 5 or so. I thought they were for my cousin. When xmas came they were wrapped under the tree for my brother. I called my mom on it right then and she lied right to me. I told them I saw them in her closet and that she bought them and she told me no again. I went and checked right then and they were gone. I remember hounding her for months about it. She finally fessed up, and I was really upset that she lied to me. I then told every one I saw Santa wasn't real. I was so upset that I put so much effort into my letters and cookies, and all that and it was for nothing. I'm still bitter. No, once I was old enough to get it, I understood. My mom was all about the spirit of xmas and faith, and she explained how much fun it was for her. That made me let go of a lot. I still am not a Santa fan though.
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#137 of 141 Old 12-12-2006, 09:51 PM
 
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All that being said, I've got no issue personally with the myths and story of Santa when they are approached as just that: myths and stories. I told the kids about how Santa came to be over the years, what cultures have contributed to the myth, etc. I think that the character of Santa is generosity and kindness. I can totally get behind those ideas.
Yes. IMO, one of the underlying stories behind Santa is the theme of giving. Hopefully, through these experiences, your children (and others) will learn to be generous.
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#138 of 141 Old 12-13-2006, 04:26 PM
 
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Am I the only one who can't remember believing in Santa? My family "did" Santa, but I always knew it was just a game. Can't decide if this means that I was observant or that I have a bad memory.

Anyway, I don't like Santa either. DH and I had a minor blow-out about this last year, because he wanted to do Santa and I didn't. He "won," but the weird thing is that I find I am the one dutifully bringing up Mr. Claus and he is the one not bothering. I think maybe I actually convinced him of my POV and he convinced me of his. Isn't that weird?

I am definitely not going to strenuously swear that he is real, though. Ick.

Interestingly, DD just doesn't seem to care anyway.

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#139 of 141 Old 12-13-2006, 04:57 PM
 
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Am I the only one who can't remember believing in Santa? My family "did" Santa, but I always knew it was just a game. Can't decide if this means that I was observant or that I have a bad memory.
No, I totally never "did" santa. I knew it was BS. I have no clue if my sister (3 years younger) bought it or not.
I do however remember in 1st grade my (horrid, awful, evil) teacher REALLY pressed santa, gave "evidence" of how he existed and I was like...hmmm MAAAAAYBEEE he IS real.
That's why I have no idea why my mother feels it's so GD important to do it...
**PS: this computer has spell check...why does santa have to be capitalized??
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#140 of 141 Old 12-14-2006, 11:49 PM
 
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I finally got through this thread!

I wanted to say that when I was seven my mom and my sis told me the truth about santa (and the easter bunny and the tooth fairy) because they thoguht I'd figured it out, but in reality I had had no clue, and it crushed me. That was the beginning of the end of childhood. I kept on believing in Santa (delusionally) until I went away to college, I think...

I'm trying to figure out how to do it with our girls. I will not lie, but I still want to play the game. DH is the same. Also, Santa only brings homemade or wooden toys, one per child. I think if my children ask me, I'll treat it the same as when they ask about fairies. I believe fairies exist, but I ask my daughter what she thinks.
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#141 of 141 Old 12-15-2006, 01:26 AM
 
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**PS: this computer has spell check...why does santa have to be capitalized??
It's a proper noun.
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