A friendly debate????? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Do you allow your children to CIO?
Yes, on a regular basis 0 0%
Sometimes, usually for sleeping purposes 33 11.11%
No, never 264 88.89%
Voters: 297. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-31-2003, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by telekinetic pyro
I wish I could offer you advice on the car crying. Unfortunately, I can't because ds did the same thing. Evnetually, he just outgrew it. Sometimes, distraction would help as he got a little older but putting him in the car seat was often a two person job because he would fight so hard. When he gets a little bigger, I found snacks were a good way to calm him down. If I gave him a banana or some crackers, he would be intent on eating and not thinking about being strapped in. Obviously, that doesn't help you yet because your ds is too little for solids. Now that my ds is forward facing (at 19 months) the carseat is less of a struggle. I don't know if turning him made the difference or just the fact that he was getting older. Good luck
thank you. of course, after i wrote this, i was able to drive the 7 miles to target without a peep and he was awake when we arrived! driving home was a totally different story, however; i foolishly got in the bank drive-thru line and he started wailing -- you can't get out of the bank drive-thru, you're trapped! it was painful; my shoulder and neck are killing me from reaching around backwards to stroke his head.

sofiamomma, FWIW, i don't think you are selfish and i think you sound like a great mama; i hope things go well with your new babe and that you continue to get at least marginal time to yourself -- it's so important.
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Old 05-31-2003, 11:13 AM
 
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I had to pick sometimes.

I did a modified aproach to CIO with my dd Cassidy when she was about 7 months old....though it didn't work in the long run. I mean, it worked initially, within a week she was putting herself to sleep and sleeping thru the night (she slept thru the night already...I used cio to get her to go to sleep initially..I've never let a child cry in the middle of the night)

Anyway..now, at 22 months she's cosleeping...she doesnt' like her room, hasn't since 13 months old...

I don't plan to do any cio with Aidan. I am planning on getting the "no cry sleep solution" book for tips with him, though we will likely cosleep.
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Old 06-01-2003, 11:56 PM
 
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Well, I put no never, but my first child we let her cry in the crib one night for like, 10 minutes. Then we decided not to ever do it again.
I have always assumed that CIO was the way to get your kids to sleep by ignorning their crys for longer and longer periods of times. To try and "train them".
Now, like someone said before.... babies cry. And you may not beable to find the cause. But I have always tried to find out what was the matter with my kids if they where crying. Sometimes they have to cry for a bit if I am peeing or getting something for someone else, but I talk to them, and try to comfort them from afar. I don't think that that is CIO.

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Old 06-02-2003, 05:41 PM
 
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My dd is 3 and we never let her CIO. But a good friend who had her baby 10 days before I did ferberized her son when he was 6 months old. I found it heartbreaking, and so did she. She would call me for support while he was screaming and it was really hard to be loving toward her at those times.... but I was, and I'll tell you why.

My friend was raised in a strict household. She is a very orderly person. She was really struggling with motherhood. Her marriage was suffering; she was depressed. Occasionally she would feel rage at her son -- I mean real true rage. My friend is highly intelligent, educated, and she made a decision about what she needed to do to survive parenting her son. I do not agree with her choice -- I *strongly* disagree, in fact. Her son really suffered -- I heard it. But my friend was suffering too, and she was the one living in that house with her boy and her husband, and her history. She did what she needed to do. And I love her dearly and she is still my friend, although I confess that at the time I did not know if we would stay friends.

So I agree with what someone above wrote when she said that we cannot judge. I do feel CIO is waaaaay too mainstream -- scary in fact. But there are situations where people do it and maybe that is what they needed to do.

IMHO CIO is the antithesis of attachment parenting because it constitutes an intentional fracture of the child-parent bond. Letting a child CIO teaches him/ her that they are alone at night -- that there is no point in crying because they will not get your attention that way. I am talking about real Ferber here -- returning every few minutes to a fussing or complaining baby is not CIO, I don't think. CIO is leave, return after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, then 20 etc until baby sleeps. The next night start at 10 min, then 20, then 30 etc... No matter what, you do not go in.

To me, attending to my dd was/ is about respecting her as a whole person, and equal member of our household. Sure, my night time attention to her has changed as she had gotten older. Some nights now I read to her, cuddle her and then leave. Often she asks meto stay, but sometimes I gently explain why I can't stay tonight, but that I will come up in 10 minutes and check her. Most nights I lie with her until she falls asleep and then I leave.

The car seat problem is interesting, but I have to say that we did not go around with our dd much when she was small because sje did not like the car seat. Why should I force her to sit there when she does not like it? But then we live downtown in walking distance of everything we need and I gather from reading these posts that many people do not live in that setting and di not have the option of just walking instead of driving on your errands.
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Old 06-02-2003, 05:43 PM
 
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My dd is 3 and we never let her CIO. But a good friend who had her baby 10 days before I did ferberized her son when he was 6 months old. I found it heartbreaking, and so did she. She would call me for support while he was screaming and it was really hard to be loving toward her at those times.... but I was, and I'll tell you why.

My friend was raised in a strict household. She is a very orderly person. She was really struggling with motherhood. Her marriage was suffering; she was depressed. Occasionally she would feel rage at her son -- I mean real true rage. My friend is highly intelligent, educated, and she made a decision about what she needed to do to survive parenting her son. I do not agree with her choice -- I *strongly* disagree, in fact. Her son really suffered -- I heard it. But my friend was suffering too, and she was the one living in that house with her boy and her husband, and her history. She did what she needed to do. And I love her dearly and she is still my friend, although I confess that at the time I did not know if we would stay friends.

So I agree with what someone above wrote when she said that we cannot judge. I do feel CIO is waaaaay too mainstream -- scary in fact. But there are situations where people do it and maybe that is what they needed to do.

IMHO CIO is the antithesis of attachment parenting because it constitutes an intentional fracture of the child-parent bond. Letting a child CIO teaches him/ her that they are alone at night -- that there is no point in crying because they will not get your attention that way. I am talking about real Ferber here -- returning every few minutes to a fussing or complaining baby is not CIO, I don't think. CIO is leave, return after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15, then 20 etc until baby sleeps. The next night start at 10 min, then 20, then 30 etc... No matter what, you do not go in.

To me, attending to my dd was/ is about respecting her as a whole person, and equal member of our household. Sure, my night time attention to her has changed as she had gotten older. Some nights now I read to her, cuddle her and then leave. Often she asks me to stay, but sometimes I gently explain why I can't stay tonight, but that I will come up in 10 minutes and check her. Most nights I lie with her until she falls asleep and then I leave.

The car seat problem is interesting, but I have to say that we did not go around with our dd much when she was small because she did not like the car seat. Why should I force her to sit there when she does not like it? But then we live downtown in walking distance of everything we need and I gather from reading these posts that many people do not live in that setting and did not have the option of just walking instead of driving on your errands.
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Old 06-02-2003, 08:04 PM
 
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"Let's use an abstract example: a single mother of two who is forced to work ten hour days to put food on the table. An infant/almost toddler, who wakes her every half hour all night long... you can't even function enough to take care of your children, let alone work efficiently enough to keep your job. Honestly, what would you do? Go on welfare? Start a gentle sleep training program? Risk a week of "some" CIO for the longterm health of you and your family?
It's so easy to judge other people's decisions if you've never been where they're at."

I've been trying so hard to keep my mouth shut...

I have been in this situation and yes I did go on welfare and no I did not let my children cry it out --ever. In fact feeling my sleeping toddler snuggling next to me nursing happily, and then my infant later on were some of the only things keeping me going in my completely hectic, upsidedown life. not all of us are like how you describe. I see what you are describing as an excuse to not take care of your children. don't know if you've been in this situation, but I have and I know that my children needed me more than ever and me letting them cry alone in a crib when I had already been gone all day would be feel like even more abandonement and possibly even more detrimental. Even if someone was having major problems and felt like they couldn't take care of their kids, I would encourage them to get help (counseling, family, ect.) NOT let their babies cry alone a crib. sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to stick up for us working mamas.
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Old 06-03-2003, 01:29 AM
 
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mum2sarah, no I don't think you are off topic at all! I think the whole point that I've been trying to make in these threads is that it is important to make decisions that are best for our own particular family and not necessarily trying to follow a particular parenting philosophy to a T. I agree that purposeful detachment is, of course, the opposite of attachment, emotional abandonment the antithesis of attachment parenting. However, I also agree with the poster above that there is a difference between what is truly letting a baby CIO a la Ferber and comforting a complaining baby, leaving, coming back as needed, and so on. My particular frustration is with the confusion about whether it is okay ever to let babies cry, i.e. in the carseat, while you are using the bathroom, etc. and whether that will somehow be damaging to the long term attachment of the child. I feel like sometimes new parents are not listening to their intuition, instincts, babies' cues, sense of what is right for their family and so on. And this is because they feel that they must not *ever* allow their baby to fuss, cry, complain at all for any reason and should try to at least be with them and comfort them *no matter what* and that there are no situations in which that *might* be the *right* thing to do. Or otherwise they would not be attachment parenting and would somehow be a failure or damage their child. I said earlier that I don't think that what is healthy for a wee babe is always going to be the right thing to do with an older babe or toddler. At some point I think a momma will often sense that her baby can wait a little longer and venture off without her, stay with another caregiver and so on. I think that if she has been practicing attachment parenting and knows her baby she will be able to feel her way thru these transitions if she trusts the process and knows what is right for her particular baby and her particular family and her particular situation. So anyway, that's my two cents, or four, or . . .

P.S. Thanks, samsara! <ssshhhh, don't tell anyone, sometimes I am a little selfish. . .:ignore >

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Old 06-03-2003, 02:30 AM
 
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Old 06-04-2003, 08:56 PM
 
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though, i will put him in his playpen for "time out" and let him cry for about one or two minutes...............IF he is out of control and nothing else works.

he is 22 months and has real fits sometimes....and nothing else seems to stop him. (not going to spank ever).


so...................that isn't really CIO ............cause i do not wait for him to stop crying..................


I put him in when he is tantrum........leave the room and stand in doorway for 1- 2 minutes and go and get him out.

i say "No cry" and take him out and he is totally fine after that.



but. id NEVER let him cry ............

time out isn't CIO? is it? i hope not.

you think im ok? be honest
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Old 06-04-2003, 10:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robinmama

The car seat problem is interesting, but I have to say that we did not go around with our dd much when she was small because she did not like the car seat. Why should I force her to sit there when she does not like it? But then we live downtown in walking distance of everything we need and I gather from reading these posts that many people do not live in that setting and did not have the option of just walking instead of driving on your errands.
Wow, no offense, but you must have lived in such a downtown setting all your life, since it seems you take it for granted. If only we all were so lucky. No, seriously there are *many* of us who simply do not have a choice. I live only 20 miles or so from downtown Pittsburgh, in a suburban style neighborhood, but still the nearest grocery store is 5 miles away. We have no department stores in our town. There is a drug store within "walking distance" (about a mile) but if you've ever visited western Pennsylvania, you'd know that it is extremely hilly, and I could not see myself walking up and down two mountainous hills on a regular basis to get there. Yes, driving and strapping the baby in a car seat is unfortunately a necessary evil around here. It can be very stressful to hear her cry in the car, but I try to make sure ahead of time that she is not tired or hungry and make trips as infrequently and as quickly as possible. I also try to sing to her and talk to her and give her soft toys to keep her occupied. I wish I could just walk wherever I needed to go. So be glad you live in a place where you can!

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Old 06-04-2003, 11:48 PM
 
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sleepies, I for one think you are ok! I think you know your baby better than anybody and know his personality and what he needs in a given situation and/or you feel it out until you do.

My first does not seem to be able to recover well from small upsets. Commiserating with her, comforting, sympathizing, etc. only made her escalate. It was like her feelings were out of control and if you seemed to be encouraging her to have them, she'd just keep having them and increasing them and could not wind down. I once left her at daycare and she got bumped on the playground and they did the usual sympathetic responses. When I got there *2 hours* later she was an absolute wreck! I started letting her cry for a bit, describing what had happened, how I thought she probably felt, then telling her it was time to be all done and move on. I think if anyone saw me doing that and knew only that last bit they'd think I was stifling her, not allowing her to express her feelings, etc. but I had figured out how to help her.

My new little one also needs some time to let off steam. I finally figured out that if I just let her go while holding (or not holding her if I got too upset and had to put her down for a minute) she would quit and go to sleep much sooner than if I kept trying to get her to stop crying, by offering to feed her, sticking the binky in her mouth, jiggling, patting, shshshing, stroking, etc.

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Old 06-06-2003, 03:49 AM
 
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I have very much enjoyed this thread and all the posts. I have already voted and posted but something happened last night that made me want to share.

I can completely understand why a single mother would CIO. DS is almost 11 months old and generally wakes up 2x a night. Technically only once a night. He wakes up between 12:00 am and 1:30 am and then again at 6:00 am. Since DH and I don't get up until 9:00 that 6:00 am still feels like night time to us.

However, last night DS got up at 1:00 am, 2:00 am, 4:00 am, 6:30 am, and 8:45 am. In addition he did not wake up fussing like normal but with blood-curdling cries which is not normal for him. I got up with him each time and either cuddled, nursed or bottle-fed him back to sleep. Finally though at 6:30 I had started to lose all sense of patience. I told DH he had to take care of DS for the next few hours because I had never felt more like spanking my child than I did right then.

I know that I never would have actually gone through with it but had it not been for my DH who is as devoted to parenting our children as I am I might have put DS in his own room (he sleeps on our floor) and left him there for a couple of minutes in order to get control. I can handle his waking up at night because I know that DH is there to catch me and DS when I need a break. For all you single mothers out there who do not have someone else besides you - my hat is off to you
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Old 07-05-2003, 01:29 PM
 
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With my first one I was 16 and was told that I was SUPPOSE to let them CIO. It broke my heart and to be honest I had to sneak around and pick up my son when others weren't looking because I just couldn't handle it. If I knew then what I know now though certain people would have gotten my finger and my back as I was carrying my son away.

My daughter I did things my way and was very happy with it. I didn't listen to anyone who told me that she would end up clingy or spoiled and she turned out just fine.

My little one now I have finally realized that alot of what I did back then and do now is what's considered AP Parenting which is pretty cool (knowing that I've been doing this "new" thing for so long). He has never had to CIO and never will if I have my way but it is a daily fight because his father is against AP and fights me on everything!! If it comes down to it though my son still won't CIO and I'll just be a single momma again.
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Old 07-06-2003, 01:01 AM
 
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No, never!

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Old 07-06-2003, 11:30 PM
 
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I'm on page three of the replies--this is an interesting thread. I hope the last two pages are not ugly and mean!

Anywho, I want to thank those of you (specifically Alexa and HM) for your posts. Alexa, your attitude is pretty nearly exactly what I think.

With my dd, Violet (age 3 in about a week), I was your standard new AP parent--I followed what I thought was AP and did not let my daughter so much as whimper. I am so glad for our strong bond. I have done a good job with her. As I like to do with all things important in my life, I reflected on how her early years were for me--how I parented, how she responded, how both of our needs were either met or not met....

And the single biggest issue I had with how I parented and Violet's responses is that her sleep patterns were detremental to my sanity for the first two years. Her nightwaking/night terrors were so terrible that I became depressed, angry and felt violent toward her (didnt' act on it!). I think I even had a bit of PTSD when it came to her nightwaking. I would hear her wake and sometimes cry myself--OMG, she's awake. Here we go for another four hours of inconsolable screaming. Here we go for another bad day tomorrow because she didn't sleep well. Please oh please oh please go back to sleep.

Now, one of us would get up with her always. And nothing, I mean nothing helped at times (in all fairness, sometimes things did help...). There was a period when she was 15-20 months where she was up from 11-3 am SCREAMING or whining or yelling. Nothing we did helped. Sometimes dh would drive for HOURS only to have her wake up an hour later.

So, yeah...that didn't work for us. I certainly didn't feel very AP. I felt very tired and angry. So did Violet. So did Dh.

She did grow out of it but honestly, she has only been sleeping consistantly through the night since her sister was born (Zoe is five months). This is a good thing cause I dont' know what I would do if I had to deal with two kids at night. I'm one of those people who needs sleep or I am an absolute nightmare.

Soooooo....upon reflection, I decided that something different needed to be done with baby #2. We do a great mixture of co-sleeping/crib-in-the-room sleeping. I vary the way she goes to sleep: nursing, dh rocking her, or simply awake. About one in ten times, she will whimper for no more than three minutes. She starts in her crib in our room and when she wakes, I move her to our bed.

And I'm so okay with that. She is already a better sleeper than her sister. She sleeps from 9/10 pm to 6/8 am. Who knows--maybe that is a natural thing--something in her nature--but I'll take it. I put her down awake and she has really learned how to sleep on her own.

I feel more able to respond to both of my girls by doing it this way. And that is what AP is to me--using the tools of AP to help you read your kids cues. You use what works and reasses when things don't.

I highly doubt Dr. Bill would tell me that I am a bad mama.
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Old 07-07-2003, 01:04 AM
 
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Never here. I have co-slept with Noah from day one and the CIO was never an issue. He was quite colicky as an infant so he would often have bouts of crying, but always in my arms. During the night I was always able to meet his needs by rolling over and nursing him. When he was very young, my husband and I would often have to take turns walking with him at night.
When he weaned during my pregnancy, I found other ways to soothe him on the rare occasion that he would awake. For him, all it takes is a hug and getting his back patted till he rolls back over and falls asleep.
I am hoping to do things the same with the new baby.
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Old 07-09-2003, 04:20 PM
 
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We have never done CIO, leaving one or both in a room to cry alone.

That being said, occasionally, they do "FIO" (fuss it out), meaning they are clearly exhausted from a long day, but don't want to go to bed, but NEED to go to bed, and so when I put them in bed, they fuss (not cry, not wail), kind of whining and grumping a bit, for a minute or so, then they drift off to sleep and wake up happy as clams.

Dd and ds were terrible sleepers early on, and it took months to teach them how to fall asleep, take good naps, etc. But it was teaching, not neglecting. We did "No Cry Sleep Solution" techniques which worked very well.

For the most part, dd and ds want to go to sleep when they're tired and signal that to me. I just plop them into bed and they happily go to sleep. So what I'm talking about is the extraordinary occasion when they're tired but won't go to bed, and nursie, rocking, etc don't help. Then they just get tucked in, say nitey nite, and they fuss for a moment and then go to bed.
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Old 07-10-2003, 06:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by alexa07
What all of the reserach that I read showed was that people who did not learn to fall asleep on their own as children had a higher risk of problems with insomnia as adults. Now, this is only a risk. It is not an absolute cause and effect.

The reserach also showed that the earlier one learned to fall asleep on one's own, the better the chance of developing better sleep habits later on. And again this just increased the odds, didn't gurantee anything.
But that doesn't mean one has to let their child cry themselves to sleep in a dark room, alone, at night (which can be especially scary).

Our son can certainly put himself to sleep. He does it almost every day in a car seat or in the bike trailer without us knowing or trying to get him to sleep. BUT, we would never leave him alone in the dark to comfort himself and feel as though the people whom he trusts most in the world wre not coming to his aid when he was scared or needed comforting.

Anyway, I say that all to say, that I would really love to read the research you are referring to. Can you post a link?

I, nor my siblings, ever allowed to CIO. We all slept in a family bed until we were ready to sleep alone and we all sleep very well, none have any sleep disorders to speak of, and all can put ourselves to sleep at the drop of a hat.
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:53 PM
 
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No, never.

I honestly could not stand the noise!

I would even put my dear child in a backpack when I vacuumed, mowed the lawn, cleaned the car, or did the dishes.

HOnestly, I could not stand the noise.

We homebirthed, co-slept, bf'd, I was a SAHM for ten years, so yes it was a natural extension of my AP.
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:53 AM
 
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I have been in this situation and yes I did go on welfare and no I did not let my children cry it out --ever. In fact feeling my sleeping toddler snuggling next to me nursing happily, and then my infant later on were some of the only things keeping me going in my completely hectic, upsidedown life. not all of us are like how you describe
If you read my post, it says "let's use an example". I didn't say "all single working mothers are extremely worn out and need to let their babies CIO." I'm sooo happy for you that everything worked out that well! But my children had me up all night - every half hour, like clock work - for months and months on end. Some people have the stamina, others don't... I was simply making the point that you can never really judge what other moms are going through.
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Old 07-18-2003, 03:26 PM
 
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unless you count...............

since he was about 18 months, if he throws a fit and i can not calm him down ........after trying.....

i put him in his playpen for about 1 minute, and then take him out. he stops crying after i get him out.

i haven't found anything else to work when he gets out of control... (ie temper tantrum)
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Old 07-18-2003, 04:11 PM
 
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Question..............

does CIO have to be a bedtime issue?

I don;t have babies yet -- can't wait.

BUT

I do not suppor tCIO over bedtime. I had bad bedtime issues and do not want kids to have them. None of my newphews are forced to CIO though the 4 year old limits and a set bedtime.

BUT

if you are talking about a "fit" or anger at a NO answer.........is that different.

Aimee

Aimee + Scott = Theodore Roosevelt (11/05) and 23 months later Charles Abraham (10/07)....praying for a little sister; the search starts May 2014
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Old 07-28-2003, 02:28 PM
 
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MY son was in the hospital for a week/ Came home and then few weeks later it started. Getting up at 2 and crying and nothing would make it better, in fact he would cry ahrder if we took him out and tried various things (To the point of Tylenol, Benadryl, books, food, drink, bath, even Sesamy st one despareta night). So, I just desided he neede to cry about something. The cryin lastedfor 15 monites for a week and then stopped. One of my firend thoguht that he was just crying because he felt sad about hospital
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Old 08-13-2003, 07:41 AM
 
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I am VERY passionate about this issue and very opinionated on it as well. We have never and never would let a baby cry unconsoled. Forcing a child to cry to "learn to sleep on its own" is a cruel thing to do. Babies are so needful of love and attention and little for such a short period of time, that doing such a thing is just plain old selfish in my opinon. When you have children you must put yourself and your neds aside for their good. Does a child sometimes cry till the parent can finish using the bathroom or having to throw up? Yes, it is just an unfortuante part of life, but allowing a child to cry to "train" them is an awful practice.

Just like any other human being a child has emotional, physical and spirtual needs. We must be there to help meet those needs untill that child is capapble of handeling that on their own, which is not at only a few months or even years of age. Perhaps the baby is overtired and needs more help to calm down and relax to sleep, maybe their need for feeling secure is higher than expected and they need to be held, rocked or cuddled to sleep. Maybe they just have the need to be near another person and enveloped in love for a while longer.

The simple fact is that life in this world can be, and often is harsh, rough and difficult. Sadly so many people believe that we must introduce this fact to children far too young to comprehend it, much less deal with it. Let's let our children be children and give them the mose comforting, safe and secure environments possible and not worry about making our lives more convenient, or easier.
think of thos little arms reaching up to embrace empty air, or that little heart breaking because momy and daddy will not respond to them. What does that teach the baby? Nothing good. It jsut breaks my heart that so many children are treated in this manner, and that so many books, peds and so-called "experts" not only suggest it, but push it like its the only way to go.
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Old 08-15-2003, 06:31 PM
 
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mamaof2:

Your post said all I wanted to say!

I am a single mama, and my son will NEVER be left alone to cry.
He is almost 27 months old, and has only recently started to sleep "through the night." (He still wakes a few times every night, but he doesn`t need my help to go back to sleep anymore...)

*Single, attached Norwegian mama to my LoveBug, 2001*
 
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Old 08-15-2003, 11:39 PM
 
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Untill my son's episode, I considered CIo a really horribale things. However, i do think that evything need to be approached on case by case basis. He was 2... and when I say we tried eveything I mean it. what was wered is that holding him and rocking him, or simply touching him, or tlaking made it all worse. It would completely send him wialing. My DH thought he was ill again with something. I still think to this day that how he expressed his rage at being ill, and having to stay at the hospital and undergoing all the procedure. I was with him 24/7 there, and he was a verys toic, amzaingly well behaved child. I think he held everything in him and his crying was the rage, the expression of what happened to him. I know my son well and I could see tht holding him was driving him nuts. Sometime I want to be elft alone and just cry and rant and grief. and sometime a child wants the same
after a weeek, it all came back to normal
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Old 08-16-2003, 12:59 AM
 
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I think that there is a difference between CIO and crying expressively. I don't think that if a child wants to be left alone, not hugged or touched and just cry then as long as they can get you as soon as they need you then that is what is important. My dd is almost 3 and at times she will have emotional episodes where she will just cry. Sometimes its anger, frustration or just being overtired. I try to hold or cuddle her, if she does not want it then I gently remove myself from her personal space as far as she needs then wait for her to want me. Once she wants mommy I am there for her, and she knows it. I am sure your ds knew you were there for him too, so at that point just knowing that WAS comfort enough.

When an infant is left to cry for convenience, or sleep or whatever it is not a good thing. I have heard of a dad so frustrated by the colicky baby crying that he shook it and now the child is severly handicapped. In cases like this it would have been netter had the man put the baby in a crib, playpen whatever and walked away to compose himself.

However most CIO's are children with very real needs, even if it just the need for a close physical presence for a bit, and they are neglected for "training" purposes. Children are very human and their needs and even wants are just as real and valid as ours and should be treated thusly.

I maybe a bit militant, but if my ds begins to cry while we are driving somewhere, I will make up a bottle and jump in the back and feed him. If I am driving I will pull into a parking lot or strip mall or whatever and change his diaper and feed him, then continue on with the trip.

I have seen many "trained" children in my day and I shudder to think that the parents did this on purpose. They remid me of "stepford" children, void of real personality, little robots incapable of thinking or doing something without momy or daddy's say-so.

IMNSHO ALL Ezzo, Pearl and other "beat em' into submission, train em like dogs" book should be illegal.
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Old 08-16-2003, 01:22 AM
 
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pin pointed imporata difference. In fact,how can one not stop the car and feed the child or cahnge the diaper? as a training for what excately?
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Old 08-17-2003, 12:35 AM
 
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I dont let her cry on purpose. She cries in the carseat and sometimes when shes fighting sleep even though I am there with her. The thought of mothers letting their babies cry more than a few minutes unconsoled until they become sick and sad just makes me literally sick to my stomach.
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