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#61 of 93 Old 06-10-2003, 10:54 PM
 
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In the new Ina May book about childbirth, there is a story about an adult woman in labor for the first time and she did not know where the baby was going to come out. Finally she decided it was probably going to come out her throat. Then the midwife started washing the genital area and she figured out where the baby would be.

What do you bet that this woman was told as a child that touching her genitals is bad? That she was not able to talk to her parents about anything related to sex at all? That she had never been to a sex education class? Maybe she had never even seen her own vagina; many women have not!!
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#62 of 93 Old 06-10-2003, 11:31 PM
 
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Originally posted by Greaseball
Maybe she had never even seen her own vagina; many women have not!!
I have a special mirror simply for this and when my daughter finds it or begins to ask questions about it or shows curiosity about it, I will show her what it's for. I think it's incredibly important for a woman to be very familiar with her body.
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#63 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 12:30 AM
 
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Originally posted by Justice2
Ok, after doing some research here is what I found....

I masturbate to achieve an orgasam..

child orgasams

I do believe that a teen, and preteen can achieve an orgasam..i,e wet dream and through masturbation. But I do have to agree with the above link that toddlers, ever older CHILDREN cannot achieve an orgasam, therefore not masturbating for "pleasure" in that sense. Now, you can construe this and say that children masturbate because it feels good, but there again, it's a different KIND of pleasure and not at all orgasmic

also

child masturbation

I am not saying that masturbation is bad for a child, I am saying that IMHO (and I will do further research on this subject) I do not think that small children masturbate for 'SEXUAL' pleasure.
Have to butt in here.. By the time i was in 3rd grade I was having sexual dreams and orgasms.. Maybe i just figuired out my plumbing earlier, but i can tell you my orgasms of youth felt exactly the same as my orgasms of adulthood with regards to masterbation..

So i have to respectfully disagree that children don't do it for the sexual feeling encountered because i most surely did..

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#64 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 02:51 AM
 
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Pynki. Agreed.

When I was a student, a psychiatrist friend 15 years my senior told me that she had her first O in 3rd grade. She and a bunch of other girls would use the erasers on the back of pencils in class!!! It was an all girl thing. The thrill was to do it in front of the teacher, but to appear nothig was going on. :

She told me that she'd go for one 2 or 3 times a week before sleep. I was not surprised given the activities of my fellow 6-7y/o class mates.

While it is common for boys to get erections from an early age, orgasm (I believe) is rare before pubity. She was surprised that pre-pubesant boys could not "resolve" themselves.

I guess we never stop learning the wonders of the human condition.

a

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#65 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 01:12 PM
 
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The purpose of the clitoris, as we all know, is female sexual pleasure. If it were bad for a child to experience bodily pleasure (that she controlled herself, not that someone else forced on her) the clitoris would lie dormant until age 18, marriage, college graduation, etc.
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#66 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally posted by Greaseball
The purpose of the clitoris, as we all know, is female sexual pleasure.
No! Male pleasure too! But I digress

a

(I guess : wag would have been out of order on this reply!!!)

a

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#67 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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lol you guys are too cool.

Pynki me too!! I can't say exactly when it started but definately by the middle elementary school years.

If it were bad for a child to experience bodily pleasure (that she controlled herself, not that someone else forced on her) the clitoris would lie dormant until age 18, marriage, college graduation, etc.



on that one too!!
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#68 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally posted by Alexander
While it is common for boys to get erections from an early age, orgasm (I believe) is rare before pubity. She was surprised that pre-pubesant boys could not "resolve" themselves.
My dh tells me he was masterbating to orgasm at around 10. However, he didn't have his first ejaculation until 14. The first time it happened, it scared him to death. He didn't know why stuff was suddenly coming out of him. Then, he was just annoyed that it was now messy.

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#69 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Melanie, that is too funny. ok, maybe it's not that funny. It would be so much better if boys knew it would happen at some point and that it was normal. And they could be prepared.

another example of the benefits of education.
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#70 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 03:52 PM
 
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you're kidding right?

I mean, look around, the whole world is obsessed with sex. You have adults hopping from one partner to another like a pack of wild animals. and the same people throw their hands up in the air and say, my child is gonna do it anyway, let's teach them to be responsible. Well first off, ya can't teach kids to be responsible when they don't even have self control. And why dont' they have self control? because adults model their lack of self control all the time.

we give our kids breastmilk, we don't vax, we family bed them, we give them nutritional food. And then we teach them to act like dogs in heat and subject not only their bodies to potential harm from multiple sex partners, but we destroy their spirits. Sex isn't just a hot flash and a shudder. It's more.

I'll teach my boys to be self controlled, responsible and protective of their beautiful bodies that God gave them. They will learn they will not disrespect girls but rather cherish them. And sex will be that beautifull relationship they have with their wives in the loving safe environment of a marraige. That's not sexually repressed.

It's unfortunate there isn't more sexually repressed people out there. I've been reading message boards far to long to understand that half the problems in the world today is because we have abandoned that which I consider a healthy dose of sexual repression.
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#71 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 04:05 PM
 
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I also plan to tell my kids that I don't see the point in having sexual intercourse before age 16. I mean, I was younger than 16 but it was just so unremarkable. I only did it because I thought I was supposed to, but really no one else was doing it!

But age 16 was when I really saw the point to the whole thing. I was pretty mature at 16, had a full time job, B+ average in school. I was actually a lot more mature at 16 than I was at 18.

But still, sex at 16 was nothing like it is now. (Meaning now it is better.) I used to do the one-night-stand thing and being married is so much better. I figure all I can do is pass on my experience and hope my kids don't make some of the mistakes I did.

I think this goes for just about everything...drugs, staying in school, choice of friends, jobs, etc. All I can do is share what things were like for me and hope my children have it better.

I don't automatically think my dd will do everything I did, but if she does I think the last thing she needs is shame.
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#72 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 04:18 PM
 
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When my paternal grandmother was having her first child, she did not know how the child would come out of her, and her first guess was that her belly button would open up and deliver the baby through there.


Lifesabeach: I think there's a big difference between a thorough sex education, including frank honest open discussion about masturbation, and teaching your children to be "like dogs" going from partner to partner. Sex requires a certain responsiblity and THAT is a very important lesson in sex education, IMO. So I'm not quite sure what you are saying, but if you are equating sex education and openness about sexuality with promiscuity then I think you are mistaken. OTOH, if you are saying that part of YOUR sex education for your kids will be emphasizing that sex is best within the context of a marriage then I see nothing wrong with that, and don't see how it differs from what anyone else here is saying (except that some of us don't see sex outside marriage as a specific problem, but to me that is more of a morals/values issue).

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#73 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 04:30 PM
 
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Um, the mamas talking about teaching thier kids that sexual pleasure is not a dirty thing that they shouldn't do and certainly shouldn't talk about were planning doing more than teaching thier kids to be responsible.

My parents were VERY open and frank about sexuality and I was the ONLY one of my freinds (many of whom, if not all, grew up in households with a healthy dose of sexual repression) to graduate high school a virgin.

So, in my ancedotal experience, the kind of stuff people are talking about teaching thier kids does not lead to promiscuity.

I do agree that our society places too much emphasis on sex - but that is probably a result of sexual repression rather than a result of sexual openess.
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#74 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 06:39 PM
 
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We do not make nudity a big deal. I grew up in the family where sex was openely diucssed. And I belive it is the reason why I sateyd virgin till 19, did not get pregnant at 15 like so many of my firends (and avoided abortiona t that age). At 19 I was ready to protect myself against STD and pregnancy. My mom gave me several books on my 12th b-day. Kama Sutra, tao of Love and Sex, STD textbook, and Pregnancy textbook.
Masturabtion is great for so many thing! From sleeping aid to relaxation. I have an open marriage
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#75 of 93 Old 06-11-2003, 07:12 PM
 
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This is a great thread.

Teaching children about healthy sexuality is not the same as condoning sexual activity with a partner. Values differ from family to family, and I think it is absolutely possible to raise children who are comfortable with their bodies and sexual feelings but who also think of sexual intercourse as something that should only occur in a committed, loving relationship between two consenting people of a reasonable level of maturity.

In fact, if those are the values a parent wishes to teach, I think it is ESSENTIAL to nurture your child's sexuality through open discussions and an accepting attitude, because she (or he; I'm using she because I have a daughter) will have sexual feelings throughout childhood and adolescence, and if she does not know what to think about them, or how to enjoy them without guilt (by masturbating rather than having sex prematurely), she will not be able to live up to the values you have taught her.

I think that sexual repression, in the form of a hush-hush-we-don't-talk-about-that attitude, or just by neglecting to talk about it because you have (wrongly) assumed that if your kids don't ask, they don't want to know, creates adults who have a lot of trouble having healthy sexual relationships.
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#76 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 04:16 PM
 
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Originally posted by Piglet68


If my daughter were older, in a good relationship, and seemed mature enough, I'd probably go with her to Condomania and pick out some funky prophylactics.

I heard of a case where a parent was convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a minor by doing that. I think that is just wrong. I think that parent did his son a great favor! My parents had condoms in the medicine cabinet and my mother implied that if I needed them I should take them. Turns out that my dad was "fixed" so why they had condoms? Oh for me!

I am still uncomfortable a lot about sex but I am getting better. I don't know why because obviously my parents were not so sexually repressed. We used to go wilderness camping so we saw each other in the nude to swim bathe etc. I mean there is not another soul around. Why hide? In our own house there was some privacy but if we saw each other nude it was no big deal. When I got to college nudity was suddenly a BIG deal in the dorms. Freaked me out because a guy walked into the hallway and I was inadequately covered and her would not stop about it. It was just a human body!: :
I still looked good then too.
And I was more covered than in most bikini's

And when people start talking about who DD is going to end up with (marry etc) I say Oh, I think she's a lesbian. Shuts them up everytime.

And sex is part of healthy relationships between men and women. It should be talked about openly just like menstruation and masturbation and wet dream and what testicles are (my friends son recently asked her what they were and what they were for. He is 3) Masturbation in children (them masturbating themselves) is normal, that is why they figure out how to do it on their own. It is normal for them to be interested in bodies. It is a huge part of being a human being. Of course, masturbation is generally done in private.

Sexual abuse is wrong no matter what age the parties involved are and I hope that DD will be secure enough in her own body and sexualtiy to realize when another touching her is not healthy or "clean" or OK. I hope she feels, if it does happen, that we are open enough about sexuality that she can tell me and I won't find her dirty.

Of course levels of openess and privacy and comfort with nudity are different for all different families.

This is a great thread.
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#77 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 04:25 PM
 
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Is Condomania an adult store? I would not take an underage child there, nor would I go there myself. There are other places to get condoms.

My high school supplied them without parental knowledge. I admire them for that.
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#78 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 05:03 PM
 
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It's unfortunate there isn't more sexually repressed people out there. I've been reading message boards far to long to understand that half the problems in the world today is because we have abandoned that which I consider a healthy dose of sexual repression.

I think there is confusion over what is being discussed. No parent here is encouraging their child to go out and act in a sexual manner. What I read are parents who are trying to teach their children about their sexuality and value it to OVERCOME the sexual nature of the media around us.

OTH if you really beleive sexual repression is the way to go..... I guess to each his own. Nothing like a little repression to make everything go away.
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#79 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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healthy = sexual repression, that's an oxymoron if ever I heard one!

AFAIK (not the expert) Condomania isn't an adult store.
I think it is completely wrong for a parent to be charged with anything for giving their kid a condom. I mean really, it's better if they don't use protection?? This is another prime example of the huge problems our society has with sex.

This type of thing comes from the idea that sex is bad so if your having it, you shouldn't get protection so that way you will get pregnant or a disease and then you won't get away with it, because everyone will know and we can all ridicule you for being bad. Whatever.
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#80 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 05:26 PM
 
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I think so few people - adults and teens - actually use condoms that when they do so, they should be met with approval.
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#81 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 05:51 PM
 
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Just want to add my .02. I am the eldest of my parents' kids and even though my parents were nonchalant about nudity and teaching us about the basics of sex, they didn't really set up an environment where I could talk to them about my questions about sex. All my mom ever said was don't do it! Well, I had a lot of curiosity and decided to find out on my own. I set myself a deadline to have sex by the time I was 16, and I did. I didn't have anyone to talk to about the emotional ramifications, about not needing a boy's approval to feel good about myself, etc. Luckily, I didn't get pregnant or infected with anything, but I could have.

My sister is 3 years younger and I told her EVERYTHING! I talked about my mistakes, the good things I learned, etc. Well, my sister decided to wait until she was 22 and then had sex with the man who is now her husband. I think that says a lot.

Ignorance does not keep kids from having sex before they are ready. Knowledge helps them make responsible decisions.

I LOVE Greaseball's list and I'm copying it to remember as my girls get older!

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#82 of 93 Old 06-13-2003, 06:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justice2
I really didn't take it this way. Children do not "masturbate" in the way that you are describing, for pleasure. Children "explore". ...
I think that it's pretty sad that someone could confuse "masterbation" (as in for pleasure) with "exploration". It's also a very strong indication of how our society works.
i usually lurk here and have really enjoyed this thread. i had to jump in when justice2 posted that children do not masturbate they just explore.

i vividly remember exploring when i was approximately 2 or 3. i definitely remember masturbating, (ie to an orgasm) when i was 4 or 5. the reason i know approximate ages is because we moved when i was 4 and i have memories in both houses. i actually don't have any memories before discovering my genitalia.

that being said, i somehow got the impression that masturbation was a sin (don't think my parents ever said that, but i am a minister's daughter). i remember vividly promising/vowing to never do it again because it was so evil. then, of course, a day or few days later, there i was doing it again. i felt horrible about myself because of that. and i had severe hangups until i got married about sexuality based in part on my feelings about masturbation.

i will NOT do that to my daughter. she is only 20 months and has been fondling herself for about 2 months now. i think it just feels good to her. it is inconvenient cuz i would like to just put her diaper on and get on with life but i feel i have to let her explore a little and not deny her that. i am unsure how to go about making her feel comfortable with herself because i certainly wasn't.

i hope to hear more suggestions about how to, from a very early age, let kids know that sexuality is beautiful and healthy while protecting them from sexual abuse and hangups!

rachael
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#83 of 93 Old 06-14-2003, 09:16 AM
 
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Originally posted by mamabain
i hope to hear more suggestions about how to, from a very early age, let kids know that sexuality is beautiful and healthy while protecting them from sexual abuse and hangups!

rachael
A great book that does exactly that is called "From Diapers To Dating," by Debra Haffner. She leaves plenty of room for families individual values regarding things such as nudity, premarital sex, etc., as well, so it's not one of those one-size-fits-all books. I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone who feels they need a little guidance, or just some affirmation that they are doing a good job in this area!
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#84 of 93 Old 06-14-2003, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"i hope to hear more suggestions about how to, from a very early age, let kids know that sexuality is beautiful and healthy while protecting them from sexual abuse and hangups!"

One of the things that I think is very important in helping protect kids from sexual abuse is to raise a child that knows who he/she is and what they want and give them the ability to voice it. I've worked at that by making sure that I ask her opinion of things, what does she want, starting with the little stuff. No we don't always do what she wants. But, I am able to explain why. Kids raised to blindly do as they are told no questions asked are not able to tell someone NO when they are being told do something wrong. This effects not just sexual preditors but also peer pressure (and I don't mean just peer pressure regarding sex or drugs). Also be a parent that is easy to talk to, so your child can come to you without fear. Often parents are automatically angry that the child was in a position to be exposed to something negative. Yes we don't like that, but they need to understand you aren't angry with them. You can be a sound person to come to for advice without fear.

Regarding sex hangups. I think it's really important to teach kids your personal values, but it sets them up for hangups if you attach shame to not doing things your way. Our kids will one day grow up and be adults in relationships. Shame is never a good thing, so attempting to shame a child into doing what you want is setting them up for problems. I think what your doing so far is awesome. It;s fine when she is old enough to let her know that touching yourself feels good but it's something that people do in private. And make sure she knows that no one should be touching her unless she wants them to.
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#85 of 93 Old 06-14-2003, 02:19 PM
 
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Lifesabeach, ITA

I think there is a misconception that if you teach your child to not have sex until marriage and not to masturbate that you are 'stufling their sexuality' and not teaching them to respect their bodies. On the contrary! I do not think any part of our bodies are dirty. I happen to have a deep religious and personal belief that our sexuality is for marriage, to be shared with one other person. That is a perfectly respectable idea that has alot of merit, even if you don't agree. This does not mean that my dds won't know where their vagina is. OR that I will beat them with a hanger if I catch them masturbating. People connect the conservative view of sex with a conservative view of raising children and they don't always go together. We are a happily nude family that bathes together. lol I tell my dds the proper names for all of their parts, from feet to vaginas. I will always be honest with them about that their body parts are for and what they can do with them (anything they wish) I will teach them to respect themselves and protect themselves and their bodies from those that might hurt them. I will also teach them that, IMO the deepest joy and happiness comes in life if you control your urges and save yourself for the one you will choose to marry. I hope and pray they will see my point and choose this path, but if they don't I won't beat them or berate them or humiliate them. I will still be their loving mama, no matter what they do in their life.

I also wanted to say that there is a difference in a masturbating child of 4 or 7 and a teenager who masturbates. One is exploration the other is pleasure. IMO that pleasure should be saved to share with the one you marry and not indulged in alone. Just my belief. I will share it with my children and hope they understand and agree, but, like I said, it is ultimately their choice and I won't hassle them for their choice.
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#86 of 93 Old 06-16-2003, 01:31 AM
 
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about beating your kids with a hanger. It is child abuse. Whatever you like it or not, your kids will masturbate at some poin, and when they find out that you do not approve of it and beat them with a hanger, they will learn how to hide it well. My grnadmother was very much against masturbation for utterely ridiculous reasons (at leat the religiou prohibition I can understand). She slapped my hand and put me in the corner when she was taking care of us. Well, i learned ho to do it in the shower. No one ever had to know.
I alway felt that the Onan episode in the Bible was misinterpreted.
Frankly, whaht is a better outlet for urger and a preventeion of extramarital sex, pregnancy and STD than self love. 100% safe
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#87 of 93 Old 06-16-2003, 02:05 AM
 
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Did I miss something? Who said anything about beating with a hanger?

As for my Condomania comment, I picked that name out of my head. There was a store on Melrose Ave in CA in the eighties called Condomania, don't know if it's still there, and at that time they just sold condoms - in a rainbow of colours and flavours. It was not an "adult oriented" store at that time, IIRC. It didn't have sex toys and such.

Not that there's anything wrong with an upscale (read: not sleazy) adult "toy store", lol.

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#88 of 93 Old 06-16-2003, 02:43 AM
 
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Not that there's anything wrong with an upscale (read: not sleazy) adult "toy store", lol.
Nope, I truely love my happy store (as I have begun to cal it)
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#89 of 93 Old 06-16-2003, 02:52 PM
 
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Alenushka, did you think I said I would beat my children with a hangar. lol re-read my post.
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#90 of 93 Old 06-17-2003, 03:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lifesabeach
you're kidding right?

And sex will be that beautifull relationship they have with their wives in the loving safe environment of a marraige. That's not sexually repressed.

It's unfortunate there isn't more sexually repressed people out there. I've been reading message boards far to long to understand that half the problems in the world today is because we have abandoned that which I consider a healthy dose of sexual repression.
My born-again Christian parents tried this too. They told me sex was only for marriage. They said I was not allowed to have sex until I was married. They never talked to me about masturbation. They basically repressed me in the name of Jesus. In return I lost my virginity when I was 13, and then proceeded to screw anyone I could for the remainder of my high school and college life. I thought it stunk that they were quite obviously having sex in the next room, but never bothered to tell me anything about it other than "don't do it". However, it's not like I was enjoying myself - I was hellbent on not letting my parents make my decisions for me.

The sexual repression that I experienced still has complications to this day, and I have been happily married for 6 years. I cannot think of sex without thinking of my parents, and how wrong they said it was, and how I was such a slut. Try that on for size as you're trying to get intimate with your husband.

I would strongly encourage you to tell your children that you would like them to wait until they are mature enough to make a good decision, but if you tell them not to, and that it's a sin, it will probably blow up in your face.

Kids typically want to do what you tell them that they can't do. I think you'll have to be a little bit open minded if you want to avoid giving them a complex.
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