Hubby sez nothing wrong with Disney females - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We were cleaning out the garage today and my husband found dd's old Ariel (Disney's The Little Mermaid) dress-up shoes. She has forgotten all about them but dh asked what was wrong with them. I told him I have since learned/decided that most Disney characters, IMO, were presented in a highly-sexualized manner and I didn't need our dds to be exposed to that (2 and 4 yrs). He said that they wouldn't notice such a thing, that it would just be "fun" for them to see these characters and be "normal" like everybody else's kids. I told him I didn't approve but was caught off guard and haven't yet pulled together the words to tell him my thoughts. Anyone else have this trouble, like with in-laws or something?

~Melissa
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#2 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 10:40 PM
 
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For me, it's no so much the sexualization of their characters as other things. The females are either ugly and evil, or pretty and helpless. Also I have a problem with the marketing. Disney is especially bad with it, you can't escape it. They have their own cable station, their own radio station, stores in the malls, and their characters are emblazoned on everything from cereal to swimsuits, and it's all marketed to our kids. They see it, they know the characters, they want it. Plus their merchandise is crappy plastic unimaginative, poor quality made in sweat shops in the third world.
Did I mention that I hate Disney? LOL
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#3 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 11:08 PM
 
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I'm not sure I totally agree about the oversexualization of disney characters ... I'm kind of on the fence about it.

BUT if you believe that anything is oversexualized. Then you should stand up for not letting your kids see it.
1st of all - never bet on a kid not noticing things!!!
2nd of all - the trouble is not the overt things that they actually might take notice, the trouble is with the things they start to take for granted, like the shape and role of women etc.
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#4 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 11:17 PM
 
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I am extremely "Disney Challenged" as I am completely unfamiliar with almost all of the characters. However, I did see "Aladdin" a few years ago and was actually pretty impressed with how the young woman was portrayed. I understand that Pocahantas is a pretty good portrayal as well.

I hate Barbie dolls and don't encourage them for the same reasons that you dislike Disney. But I also choose my battles - if DD fell madly in love with Barbie, I would probably relent. Luckily, she doesn't like dolls so it's easy for me to say! But I wouldn't relent on account of DH.
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#5 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I pretty much hate Disney as well. The shoes were from my mainstream days. It bothers me how Ariel has to have her boobs held up with shells. In my dd's fairy tale book, the little mermaid has lots of long hair covering her front--not even a suggestion of a bosom. Why couldn't Disney stick with that when they made the movie? Ho Hum. Thanks for your input, ladies. Perhaps I'll cover up Ariel's picture on each shoe with a shiny sticker or something.

~Melissa
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#6 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Lovebeads, I don't think I'll relent on account of dh. Wasn't my intention. It's just that I'm the one who's done the old switcharoo in the past year--from very mainstream to mostly natural, Waldorf mama. I just still get tongue-tied at times when he questions some things and wanted some assistance from you guys!

~Melissa
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#7 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 11:32 PM
 
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You GO girl! And a fellow Marylander as well!
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#8 of 25 Old 06-08-2003, 11:38 PM
 
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It bothers me how Ariel has to have her boobs held up with shells.

I never thought the shells were hold her boobs up, I thought they were just covering them.
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#9 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 10:49 AM
 
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"no hint of a bosom"? Why is that ok? I mean The Little Mermaid was 16..you have boobs by then and I thought the sea shells were quite fetching. And I LOVED Ursula!
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#10 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 10:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoveBeads
I understand that Pocahantas is a pretty good portrayal as well.
Funny, I was under the impression that it was one of the worst examples of the Disnification of history that has ever been seen. Add that to the list of reasons I am mistrustful of Disney products -- I am appalled by the number of kids AND ADULTS that refer to the plotlines of their movies as actual, factual history. Frankly, I don't know whether I'm more disgusted with the lack of critical thinking skills exhibited by the audience or the wanton rewriting of historical fact exhibited by the writers.

Namaste,

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#11 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 10:55 AM
 
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Right on brother!



a

The anti-Ezzo king
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#12 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by glad2bhome
...and be "normal" like everybody else's kids......
What exactly is normal? Go ahead and see them, but seeing the stuff doesn't make you "normal". I saw the stuff and hated it, found Disney boring and the animation dull...far preferred the Warner Bros. stuff, more detail....and preferred live action with clever characters and jokes. Disney had none of the above for me.

All that said (harrumph!), I don't like the Disney women. AND, there are so many better characterizations of females out there (Like Mononoke...which wasn't Disney...the animation and story telling is sooooo different. For one thing, longer "shots" are used and the images don't keep changing like music videos just to keep people amused.) that I don't see why I should waste my time on Disney because "it isn't that bad!" LIfe is short. Not enough time for all the fun stuff.
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#13 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 12:14 PM
 
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This talk about Disney and specifically ariel brings back my favorite movie review, Pauline Kael's scathing take on the Little Mermaid:

a teenage tart in a seashell bra

Defintely a different character, etc. from Hans Christian Andersen's mermaid.

Which is why I hate Disney...I believe strongly in the power of fairy tales, and Disney just missed the point almost uniformly. Many people say they love Beauty and the Beast, but the story is absolutely unrecognizable from the original, and it has to have the bogus outside "love" interest and exterior conflict, while eliminating the sibling rivalry at the core of the old story. I won't let dd see it!

I'm not afraid of scary elements...Delia can handle the white witch from CS Lewis, and Voldemort (tho' she IS afraid of him), but don't mess with folklore for no reason except product placement!

Read the Uses of enchantment. Fairy tales are powerful
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#14 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 12:40 PM
 
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Rent Fantasia 2000. It has a great segment about the creation or reconstruction of the world by the Horned God and the Goddess! No teenage tarts there.

The fact that Disney even addresses pagan myths (aka fairy tales, come on, faeries are not a Christian concept) makes him OK in my book, despite the said fairy tales being watered down and Americanized.
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#15 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 01:07 PM
 
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I am a fanatical Alice in Wonderland collector, and have lots of Disney movies. I think that if the only place that a girl gets her ideas about womanhood is a Disney movie, there may be some problems with the images she is seeing. I actively discourage Barbie in my home, but allow Disney. Most Disney females have some redeeming value, with the possible exception of Snow White, can't think of anything she did DD will be exposed to things, I feel it's up to me to balance what she sees with the truth of the matter. And the truth of the matter is, at 16 if I were a mermaid, I would have needed shells to hold me up too!!

SpiralScoutin' Homeschoolin' Mama to Michael, Citizen of Portlandia, age 21, Danielle, Artist in Residence, Age 9 & Jack-Jack, Minecraft Maniac, Age 6
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#16 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 01:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by glad2bhome
We were cleaning out the garage today and my husband found dd's old Ariel (Disney's The Little Mermaid) dress-up shoes. She has forgotten all about them but dh asked what was wrong with them. I told him I have since learned/decided that most Disney characters, IMO, were presented in a highly-sexualized manner and I didn't need our dds to be exposed to that (2 and 4 yrs). He said that they wouldn't notice such a thing, that it would just be "fun" for them to see these characters and be "normal" like everybody else's kids. I told him I didn't approve but was caught off guard and haven't yet pulled together the words to tell him my thoughts. Anyone else have this trouble, like with in-laws or something?

~Melissa
I agree with your DH. I am pretty strict about what my kids watch (some Disney is off limits for sure) but my children do not notice anything higly sexual about the characters at all. I think a lot of adults read more into it than what is actually there. I know there are people who are here who think Disney is evil. Evil is what you make it.

Kim
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#17 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 01:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nankay
"no hint of a bosom"? Why is that ok? I mean The Little Mermaid was 16..you have boobs by then and I thought the sea shells were quite fetching. And I LOVED Ursula!
Maybe some people here would prefer her be all natural. <TIC>:
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#18 of 25 Old 06-09-2003, 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by sohj
I don't see why I should waste my time on Disney because "it isn't that bad!" LIfe is short. Not enough time for all the fun stuff.
That says it for me. Disney's not that bad but it's not good enough.
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#19 of 25 Old 06-10-2003, 05:59 AM
 
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I too have a Disney female characters issue. Lilo and Stitch is fairly good what with a single woman raising a little girl who *very* different. There are guns, which actually did not register until we owned the DVD.

My daughter has a mermaid "thing" and wants to see "The Little Mermaid' but I won't move an inch on that issue. It's my favorite fairy tale from childhood and Disney warped it! SHE DOES NOT LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER WITH THE PRINCE! Though, she does live for ever after, and I think pretty happily.

For good female movies we do Hayao Miyazaki films - brown haired brown eyed no boob having GIRLS. These girls can think for themselves and can take care of themselves. Sometimes they have help, but we all need some help along the way. My daughter is currently hooked on "Kiki's Delivery Service" which is about a thirteen year old girl going out on her own and learning to believe in herself. Kiki actually saves the boy, in the end. Another one we love is "Spirited Away" where a previously snotty city girl who whines all the time needs to learn good manners and proper behavior to save her parents and her friend. Princess Mononke is another great one, but it's a bit too dark for Annabelle just yet.

We do watch some of the Disney channel, though. Annabelle likes Rolli Polli Ollie, and I like The Wiggles as a show for her to watch.
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#20 of 25 Old 06-10-2003, 07:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by darlindeliasmom
a teenage tart in a seashell bra
Hey! What's wrong ith a teenage! ag

Mind you, if she were with me, I agree she could lose the seashell bra

a

The anti-Ezzo king
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#21 of 25 Old 06-10-2003, 09:45 AM
 
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T

I am trying to recall the disney movies where I think the female was portrayed as "helpless"...I can't. I do not think that Ariel was protrayed as helpless. I think she was pretty rebellious. Esmerelda wasn't portrayed as helpless either. Nor was Princess Fiona in Shrek..I think the Snow White was portrayed as helpless, but let's face it, she was created when women WERE supposed to be helpless.

I love Disney movies. (Me personally) I let my daughter watch them, but would rather she be outside playing - that has nothing to do with Disney and everything to do with wanting to be outside playing with her! I see nothing wrong with them. The company, now that may be a different story!
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#22 of 25 Old 06-10-2003, 11:23 AM
 
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I have not seen any negative effect on my dd from watching Disney movies wrt how she sees women. Ariel was her favourite character for years. BUT, she also owns Pocahontas, and she has made some comments about natives being savages. I did a lot of explaining and teaching about that, which I think has overridden the movie, but it made me more careful.
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#23 of 25 Old 06-12-2003, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexander
Hey! What's wrong ith a teenage! ag

Mind you, if she were with me, I agree she could lose the seashell bra

a
Uh, isn't the point there that she is lust-inducing? And doesn't that prove the "sexualized" point?
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#24 of 25 Old 06-12-2003, 11:47 AM
 
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Another plug for Disney and his pagan, and non-orthodox Xtian leanings. Never mind the sex, he is talking "heresy!"

http://www.danbrown.com/secrets/davi.../assorted.html

Read the bestseller, the Da Vinci code, to see what the heck I am talking about. :LOL
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#25 of 25 Old 06-12-2003, 12:54 PM
 
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My daughter has a mermaid "thing" and wants to see "The Little Mermaid' but I won't move an inch on that issue. It's my favorite fairy tale from childhood and Disney warped it! SHE DOES NOT LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER WITH THE PRINCE! Though, she does live for ever after, and I think pretty happily.
My 17 year old dd has something to say~~

For a more faithful to the original animated Mermaid, check out this link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=video

I HIGHLY recommend this version. It has the same sad ending as the original Hans Christian Anderson version.
It actually is an anime like Mononoke and Spirited Away, and has been censored somewhat from the original version which we used to rent from our library.
She doesn't wear any seashells or anything, and in the originally occasionally her hair would move aside and a nipple would show! It was all very innocent, but those scenes have all been edited out of this version.
You might be able to find the original at Blockbuster though, they have it at our's. I'm actually bidding on it on Ebay right now!
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