Horrible experience at favorite restaurant with SUPER rude hostess... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 05:40 PM
 
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Constant loud noise, or children running wild is obviously rude & shouldn't have to be tolerated. A young one leaving cracker crumbs on the floor & pieces of napkin is to be expected & shouldn't be a big deal. Nor should a loud sound every once & again, especially when followed with a "Now xx, you need to quiet down -- we are inside." Which should in turn be followed by said child quieting down! :LOL

In any case, I think it's clear that the OP's children were not behaving incorrectly. Her ds touched a plant that happened to be wobbly & it tipped. I'm not sure what I would do if my ds was a "screamer" -- or if he becomes one in the next few months during his playtime or what-not. Honestly, I would probably not eat out as often for a while as I really dislike inconveniencing others. That said, I'm often irritated by loud ADULTS -- I think that people in America are just more rude overall!
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#62 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 06:49 PM
 
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Apricot - While I would never allow my ds to shriek and yell in the restaurant (the rare times he has done that we take a walk outside), I'm just curious as to what it is you expect the waitress to do about another child that is being loud?
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#63 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:08 PM
 
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I would hope that the waitress would ask them to quiet the child / suggest an area for loud voices.

If I were to walk over and confront them, that would be a confrontation. If the waitress were to stop by, as a person who is already standing and walking around, I would hope that would be a request/mild reprimand, rather than a confrontation.

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#64 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mamapoppins
Yk, before I became a parent, and worked at or ate at restaurants, I was full of judgement against those who would let their children down at a restaurant,or had their children eating out late.
But I've learned that I never know the circumstances that bring a family to make the choices that they do. And I think that when you have no children or very easy children....judgement calls become easier, and tolerance just isn't exercised enough.
My opinions changed quite a bit from when I had an infant to after I had my own 2 year old! :LOL

Irishprincess, we ate out a ton when I was a child--definitely not for just special occassions in my family. My husband's family was the same way. Then again, we're in our 20s so maybe it's different?

edited to add--at the risk of being flamed, some of you make "quieting the child" sound so damned simple! There are times when we tell him to use his inside voice, distract him, entertain him, etc, and it just doesn't work. Granted, it usually does, but there are off moments that occur unexpectedly in a restraurant, as at home, or whereever. One of us usually takes him outside if this happens. To me, it seems like people just assume that the parents don't give a damn about the behavior--believe me, we are trying! And yes, we limit our restaurant visits now, are very careful of choosing when and when not to go, etc--and it is better now that he's 3 and not 2.
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#65 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally posted by Apricot
I would hope that the waitress would ask them to quiet the child / suggest an area for loud voices.
While I completely agree with you, I have a feeling that as in the OP any employee stating the obvious ( too much noise, or broken items) would be seen as "super rude". Seems we live in a world where no one should comment on the actions of others children. :
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#66 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:33 PM
 
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Unfortunately, if the waitress relayed another patron's concern about child noise, the parent(s), more often than not, would be angry at the waitress. People are very defensive of anything remotely negative said about their children, especially if it comes from a serving "peon," from a person whose paid purpose is to cater to their every desire and need. As tactful and kind as you try to be, some customers take any "request/mild reprimand" as an affront and will demand to speak to the manager about your "rude" behavior etc. Seriously, people are VERY mean to wait staff, who, unless they work in a nice or especially busy restaurant, are making about 10 dollars and hour after tips and working their butts off (hostesses make much less cause no tips).

I did this work for years, and I am still a little bitter about the way people treated us. Twice some customer took affront at something small I did and demanded the manager fire me (managers nod their head politely, comp meals, and then talk crap about the customer behind their back).

So no, don't ask the waitress to run interference for you. Go directly to the manager and get a free meal out of it

I do think we need to expect more from our kids if we are going to take them out. Eating habits in the US have changed dramatically though. Just a few years ago was the first time Americas spent more money in restaurants than in grocery stores. What was once a treat that required "best behavior" is now an everyday thing.

(had to fix spellings - how come I can read this over before I send and everything looks fine. Then when it gets posted, I notice a million mistakes?!)
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#67 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arduinna
While I completely agree with you, I have a feeling that as in the OP any employee stating the obvious ( too much noise, or broken items) would be seen as "super rude". Seems we live in a world where no one should comment on the actions of others children. :
If anyone commented on the actions of *my* children in a restaurant I would knock them on their a$$ in a New York minute. Unless somebody else's kid came and spit on my plate I would NEVER make parenting/discipline suggestions to anyone else. I cannot believe that anyone would consider it even remotely acceptable.
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#68 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:49 PM
 
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Originally posted by jen and her girls
Unless somebody else's kid came and spit on my plate I would NEVER make parenting/discipline suggestions to anyone else. I cannot believe that anyone would consider it even remotely acceptable.
Your 3 month old kid (theoretically speaking) could scream all throughout dinner and I'm not allowed to to make a *suggestion*??
I find that a sad statement about the world.
I'm trying to ignore your thinly veiled threat of violence.

PS. A suggestion is "Your baby has been screaming a long time and I'm trying to eat my dinner in peace. Can one of you take him out for a while. "
NOT "Tell your kid to STFU before I smack them myself."

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#69 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 07:56 PM
 
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If anyone commented on the actions of *my* children in a restaurant I would knock them on their a$$ in a New York minute.
: :Puke
How sad. that might explain why some folks eat their dinner in peace, oblivious, and my dinner is ruined.

Quote:
I would hope that the waitress would ask them to quiet the child / suggest an area for loud voices.
ITA
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#70 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 08:08 PM
 
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allow my child to scream throughout an entire meal, or anything else even similar to that, I would have a real problem with anyone making suggestions about what I should or shouldn't be doing as a parent. I would never presume to understand the situation of another family well enough to make a suggestion about their child. And while I doubt I would ever physically harm someone who made an inappropriate suggestion about my child, you can be sure that I would put that individual in their place well enough that they wouldn't make the same mistake twice. I already go through some parenting acrobatics to make sure my kids are well behaved in a restaurant. To have a stranger then come to let me know how I could be doing a better job would absolutely put me over the edge.
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#71 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 08:27 PM
 
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My problem with this is that if an adult was being noisy and disturbing others, everyone would just deal with it and be glad when they finally left. Like in the OP - if it had been one of the adults that had accidentally knocked the plant over, it would not have been a big deal. But if it's a kid, then everyone gets their panties in a bunch. Would you ask the waitress to ask the women who has had one glass of wine too many and is laughing too loud to be quiet or go outside? Talk about generating complaints to the manager.

That's what bugs me - not whether you like to eat your meal in quiet or not. It's that so often children are treated as second class citizens who don't deserve the same respect and tolerance as adults.

When I pay to go see a movie, I like to actually be able to hear the movie. When dh and I went to go see X-Men a few months ago, there was a woman next to us with her pre-teen daughter, and a son who was maybe about 6. The 6yo was asking questions really loudly, whining, asking to go outside, and several times dh and I couldn't hear the dialogue. It occurred to me to say something, but then I thought, you know, maybe this woman is a single mom with no support system and no babysitter, and is trying her best to take her pre-teen to a movie, and really doesn't need me making her feel bad because her 6yo is acting like a 6yo. No, he shouldn't have been in the movie theatre. She tried taking him outside a couple of times. But dh and I actually ended up just finding the whole thing really amusing because the kid was cute, even if he was being disruptive. And I would rather have had my movie experience ruined than feel like I made a mom, who was trying her best, feel bad and embarassed.

OT: I can't believe how rude people are to waitresses, cashiers, and just other people in general. Yes, I expect to be treated nicely in a restaurant, but mainly because I'm a nice person and usually don't warrant rude treatment, not because you are my servant for the evening. A woman I know who used to be a bridge toll collector told me that people would sometimes drive up to the window and swear at her, throw money at her, all kinds of mean things. WTF?
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#72 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 08:34 PM
 
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Yes, I expect to be treated nicely in a restaurant, but mainly because I'm a nice person and usually don't warrant rude treatment, not because you are my servant for the evening.
ITA
When i am at a restaraunt, i am amazed at how rude people are! I cringe when i hear how others speak to the servers, the bus boy, whatever. unwarranted i might add. my sil is like that and i no longer go out with her. ever. we used to meet for breakfast, a quick lunch, whatever, but no more. its too stressful.
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#73 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 08:44 PM
 
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I wonder if we have less tolerance for children's bad behavior than for that of adults or if we just react differently.

You would give lots of dirty looks, you might even say "shhh," and you might talk to be overheard about "rudeness" when the offender is an loud adult in a restaurant or theater. When a child is loud and unruly, the parent, not the child, gets the "message" and the message, perhaps because it is not directed at to the offender, is often more strait-forward and direct, as in "Could you take your child outside until s/he stops crying."
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#74 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 09:26 PM
 
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I dont know how we got on this whole line of children as 2nd rate citizens or how annoying they are in restaurants.........WTF??? THat seems WAY OT

Some of us EARLIER were disputing whether a 2yr old should be let out of the booth or out of his seat at all, thus avoiding this whole situation. Not whether they are intitled to make as much noise as the drunk woman at the next table. The OP explained that it was a section out of the way of traffic....... I still think that a 2yr old child shouldnt be let out of his seat/booth whatever, unless the parent is holding their hand...but thats JMHO

As for someone suggesting I "DO SOMETHING ABOUT MY CHILD" comment.....I would take offense to that too, only b/c Im so conscious of teaching my dd how to behave appropriately in a restaurant or anywhere else, and whether her high pitched squeals are annoying other people. I dont take her to the kinds of places where adults as well as children need to keep it down. We get a sitter for that. But in a family restaurant, its totally acceptable to have a child make a little "indoor" noise........

Thats what all of us are doing......raising our children, teaching them what is acceptable.....and where it is acceptable.

As for picking up after my dd makes a mess......I clean up more than I should cos I know in AZ, the wait people make 2bucks an hour....and their tips. So if I cant clean up, I leave a huge tip!

And if the waitperson is rude......take it out of their tip.....I dont think being rude back gets the point across quite effectively as not leaving a tip! I think being rude to the wait staff is very dangerous business, especially when they are bringing your food back. And Im not nice to them just bc I think they might spit in my food or something worse LOL! I just dont think it helps the situation at all, and ends up ruining my meal!

And dont get me started on children or worse, babies in a movie theatre! THats for another thread and one of my peeves!!! Especially at what movie prices are these days! Rent a video, get payperview or hire a sitter!!!

sorry for the rant
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#75 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 09:40 PM
 
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Originally posted by rainsmom
I dont know how we got on this whole line of children as 2nd rate citizens or how annoying they are in restaurants.........WTF??? THat seems WAY OT
Because the hostess would most likely not have reacted the way she did if an adult had knocked over the plant.
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#76 of 119 Old 07-28-2003, 09:46 PM
 
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oh.......selective rudeness...........

My guess is she's rude......to everyone.

If it happened to me, I would have assumed it was the kid thing too, but my bet is shes just rude and we are all a little overly sensitive to how people feel about children. I think most of us remember being looked upon that way as kids too.......
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#77 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 01:21 AM
 
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Originally posted by jen and her girls
If anyone commented on the actions of *my* children in a restaurant I would knock them on their a$$ in a New York minute.
Yes, showing your kids that violence is the way to solve problems is definately the way to go :
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#78 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 02:45 AM
 
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Arduinna going back to your earlier comments, are you saying you thought the hostess in the OP was right to say what she did?

I can't tell if you are speaking generally or about the OP.

I thought the OP was describing a well behaved family and a really rude hostess.

Personally if the baby at the next table was screaming through dinner, or a toddler was throwing food, my only thought would be a blissful "Thank god, it isn't my baby!".

And actually, I always make eye contact with the parent and coo or talk to the baby, or say something empathetic like "Oh, it is so hard at that age".

Honestly I tend to commiserate more than be bothered by it. I guess I just can't relate to being upset by crying babies at family restaurants.

And I consider a "family restaurant" anything that doesn't cater specifically to upscale romantic dining. If restaurants do not want a family atmosphere, I think they should be adult only, like bars. That way people could have the dining experience they want, without disappointment (both ways).

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#79 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 03:26 AM
 
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Oceanbaby, you are right on!!
This attitude that children shouldn’t be tolerated TO SOME EXTENT for behaving like children in a family restaurant is simply prejudice, IMO. It seems that some posters are making the exception the rule in order to get some point across. No one here who is defending a families choice to bring children to a restaurant is suggesting it is okay for a child to scream all throughout a meal or roam recklessly around the restaurant. Are we?

What I am saying is that when dinning in a family restaurant certain child, age appropriate behavior should be tolerated. The occasional loud voice, a banged plate, spilled water, limited supervised exploring are all things that most normal children do in restaurants. Even European children.

The reason I think this is prejudice is because I don’t think any of you pass judgment about similar behavior in a different kind of establishment when it’s committed by adults. For example, when you decide to go to a sports bar (your decision) it is acceptable for adults to yell while a big game is being broadcasted. Can you imagine the reaction if a customer asked the waitress to quite down the other customers watching the game?

There is a simple solution to those who want a quiet meal. When you call to make a reservation ask what kind of establishment the restaurant is and ask for a quite table. Because you are going to a public place, there is still the odd chance that you’ll be sitting next to a loud bachelor party and you could ask the waitress to quite THEM down but unless you’re a regular and if they’re spending 10x what you are, you’ll loose out in my experienced opinion.

OP, jump in here if this discussion seems way too off topic and I’ll stop…

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#80 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 03:43 AM
 
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It is not a matter of children being treated as 2nd class citizens.

I think the OP made it clear in a later post that the hostess is rude in other areas also not just about this one incident.

I, and I am pretty sure almost everyone in the country, would be just as, if not more, annoyed, bothered and even ticked off, by the rude behavior of an adult. However, if you went up to a somewhat inebriated person and asked them to quiet down you run the risk of an argument at best and a gun battle at worst. If you ask a parent to tone down a child, you are more likely to get results. I think a lot of parents tend to tune out their children's noise and behavior simply because they are used to it, exhausted, or just plain lazy without realizing outside the home how it affects others around them.

No one is asking for a "seen and not heard" mentality again. But don't take your child out knowing they are unprepared to behave properly and expect everyone else around you to suck it up. That is just inconsiderate and rude as a parent. The OP however did nothing wrong. I am talking more about those parents who let their children run around the restaurant disturbing other patrons and waitstaff, throw food that actually reaches other tables, or throw temper tantrums while the parents ignore them.

Only once has DS not gone with us to a restaurant (my b-day) and so far I haven't had any complaints and quite a few compliments. I have never been made to feel like my child was a 2nd class citizen and if I ever received a complaint about his behavior I would probably apologize and chaulk it up to some rare person just being oversensitive.

I will admit that I am one of those people that took their baby to a movie theater. The first time was when he was 3 months and he slept through the whole thing. The second was when he was 5 1/2 months and he woke up half way through. At which point DH and I took turns taking him down the hall and away from other patrons so as not to ruin anyone else's experience. Needless to say, we will not be taking him again for a number of years.
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#81 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 11:32 AM
 
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Arduinna going back to your earlier comments, are you saying you thought the hostess in the OP was right to say what she did?

Let's see, the hostess said " it wouldn't have happened if you had been watching him "

IMO, that is stating the obvious and not "super rude".
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#82 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 12:02 PM
 
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Aduinna, the owner said people are always knocking the plant over. Would it have been okay for the waitress to state the obvious to an adult patron, ie "If you were more careful, that would not have happened!".

I mean, it can be rude to state the obvious, right? They aren't mutually exclusive.

I guess that is what I was trying to understand, how do you feel about that?

edited to add: If the plant was that easy to knock over, couldn't it have happened when she WAS watching? Ds has done stuff while I was sitting right next to him that happened to quickly for me to stop.

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#83 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 12:02 PM
 
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I can't seem to keep myself from popping in here.

If an adult had knocked over the plant, and the hostess had said "If you had watched where you were going, it wouldn't have happened" wouldn't you find that extremely rude? Of course it's true - by definition an accident is something that happens during that split second that your attention is diverted. Hasn't anyone here ever knocked over a glass of water on their table at a restaurant that spilled onto the floor? Is that the kind of reaction you would have liked to have gotten from the waitstaff?

Irishprincess - like Hannahsims said, no one here is talking about letting their child scream through the restaurant and throw food at other tables. We're talking about normal, age appropriate behavior. A voice that occassionally gets too loud, some food spilled on the floor, and a plant knocked over by accident. These are not symptoms of children who do not know how to behave. These are natural actions of normal, healthy, well behaved children who have every right to be taken to a restaurant with their parents.


"I, and I am pretty sure almost everyone in the country, would be just as, if not more, annoyed, bothered and even ticked off, by the rude behavior of an adult. However, if you went up to a somewhat inebriated person and asked them to quiet down you run the risk of an argument at best and a gun battle at worst. If you ask a parent to tone down a child, you are more likely to get results."

This is exactly the problem I am talking about! So because an adult is more likely to put up resistance, let them act like an ass, but because kids are expected to be subserviant, and because parents (especially moms - notice dads don't seem to get this kind of rude behavior) are expected to be ashamed and made to feel guilty for the actions of their children, then we think they need to be spoken to if their child dares to annoy us.
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#84 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 12:13 PM
 
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nope, I don't think it matters if an adult did it or not other than the fact that small children can't be expected to know what to touch or not so it's up to us parents to do that. It's not like the plant fell over on it's own and you just happened to be standing next to it. I'm baffled that the kid obviously grabbed the plant, yet the waitress is seen as mean and nasty.

BTW, spilling a glass of water isn't breaking something. And in this case the child was not sitting at the table. I assume you all aren't saying that the plant was there for him to play with and oops he accidently broke the "toy"?
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#85 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 12:15 PM
 
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This is exactly the problem I am talking about! So because an adult is more likely to put up resistance, let them act like an ass, but because kids are expected to be subserviant, and because parents (especially moms - notice dads don't seem to get this kind of rude behavior) are expected to be ashamed and made to feel guilty for the actions of their children, then we think they need to be spoken to if their child dares to annoy us.
Adults are suppose to know better. Though some dont as we all know.

Parents are suppose to be teaching their children the appropriate behavior, or trying to.......

I would NEVER say something to another parent, unless they were ignoring the child completely. But not while they were sitting right there with their child. We never know the full circomstances.

I worked in a retail shop (a record store) and this young mother brought her 2 or 3 year old in, set her down turned her back on her and completely ignored her. As if it were someones home that was completely childproof. The child got into something and as the mother was completely oblivious, I told her that her dd had gotten in to something. She got all pissy at me! I said to her "HEY, this isnt a playground or day care center where you can ignore your child..... " She left and her friend said to me "she does this wherever she goes...(.ignores her dd) That was the only instance that I felt I needed to say something......
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#86 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 01:19 PM
 
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If the plant was that easy to knock over, couldn't it have happened when she WAS watching?
No. I disagree. It wouldnt have happened if the child was sitting in his seat. The plant didnt jump out in front of him, he wasnt where he was supposed to be, which is in his seat.

Like Arduinna, I too am baffled that the child isnt in his seat, knocks over a plant and the parents demand an apology. :
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#87 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 01:21 PM
 
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Like Arduinna, I too am baffled that the child isnt in his seat, knocks over a plant and the parents demand an apology.

Sorry, I have to agree!
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#88 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 02:16 PM
 
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I guess the OP thinks that she and her child deserve to be spoken to with respect, rather than with contempt and rudeness, even when one of them has an accident and knocks something over. Call me crazy, but I agree with her. I've knocked things over by accident in restaurants. Maybe I shouldn't be let out of my seat. Even though many accidents happen while I am still in my seat. I guess I shouldn't be allowed in restaurants at all because obviously my dh isn't supervising me well enough!
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#89 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 04:28 PM
 
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Hey, the OP said the hostess was rude there should be no question of that...the title of the post is:

Horrible experience at favorite restaurant with SUPER rude hostess...

HELLO!!!! HELLO!!! Did ya'll read the OP's post?

The OP was not demanding an apology because her child knocked over a plant. She was demanding an apology because the hostess was RUDE.

Later in her other posts she said that the OWNER of the restaurant told her that the plant had been knocked over several times before BY ADULTS and his mother kept moving it back to that logistically poor location.

Has everyone read all the OP’s posts? I know I’m no longer here just to defend the OP, I’m here for some good, trashy, fun debate but hey, if we’re going to get into it, we should all read all the posts.

Now a serious question: Are there actually some parents out there who feel an absolute responsibility to prevent every accident their child may make? Is this actually working? This just seems like a tremendous burden.

I will agree with the idea that it isn’t the worst thing in the world when someone steps in to recognize some inappropriate behavior. I would feel tremendously wounded but if what I was doing was truly inappropriate and I was called on it I would eventually be appreciative. I think this idea can blend into the philosophy of “It Takes a Village” where the greater community is trying to help. That said, there are big problems with this idea, especially because most people who would be popping in to tell be about my problems would be doing it because it bothered them and usually not to help guide me, kwim?

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#90 of 119 Old 07-29-2003, 05:24 PM
 
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sweetbaby/arduinna,

...I am surprised you would say he couldn't have done it while he was in his seat. I think I remember ds breaking a few things while strapped into a stroller at that age. And once in the backpack. But anyway...

...So the child wasn't in his seat, that is what you have said was a factor in why his accident warranted chastisment from the staff...so lets say he wasn't in his seat because they were standing up to leave, mom was holding his other hand, and THEN he reached to touch the plant and knocked it over with his free hand. Hostess response was still acceptable?

Arduinna re your comment "I don't think it mattered if an adult did it or not"...what do you mean? That the hostess would be fine talking like that to you or another adult who touched the plant, maybe to admire it, and it fell over? Really? You'd expect that response from her?

I guess I am trying to nail down when, if ever, a child's accident in a restaurant does not warrnat public reproach in your opinion? Or an adult's accident for that matter, if I understood your last comment right Arduinna.

Oh, yes, a down and dirty debate

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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