Grandparents Rights - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-26-2007, 12:34 AM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 25,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Much MORE likely is the possibility that my children might relocate, and dh and I might have to settle for way less contact than we'd prefer. My ideal is for my children and their spouses to buy houses on our block (or at least settle in the same metro area), so I can be the Grandma who's always around and available to babysit, or make some cookies or hot cocoa whenever little Suzy feels like dropping by.
:
I feel terrible for my in-laws. They're in Knoxville, and we're here in Vancouver with their only grandchildren. I know it breaks my MIL's heart when she doesn't get to see us...and when she does, because she adores our kids, and it's SO difficult to forge a close connection at such a distance. They call every weekend - she sends cards and e-cards for every birthday, Easter, Halloween, Valentine's Day, etc...everything she can. It's just not the same as being here, though.

My mom, otoh, has 11 grandchildren, with number 12 under construction...and we all live within a 10 minute drive of mom's house. She feels very fortunate.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-26-2007, 03:36 AM
 
DBassett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubris View Post
My own two cents is that some grandparents confuse rights with privileges. It is a privilege for both the child and the grandparent to have a functional relationship with each other. I don't believe that grandparents should have the right to force a relationship.
ITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sewingmommy View Post
My mother who is bipolar always told me how she should have rights to her grandkids and they should have to visit her for extended periods of time because it was good for them to bond with her ....and I so disagreed with this ...because of her bipolar my dh and I decided after we were married to severe all ties because I just could not and would not put my kids through the emotional hell that I went through as a child and I was a little worried about her suing for Grandparents rights but so far she has shown no interest in either of my two sons .....
No offense but I sincerely hope that you didn't sever all ties just because she's bipolar. Hopefully there is more to the story than what you've told us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProtoLawyer View Post
This disappeared, so trying again, and I apologizes if it shows up twice...


I agree with grandparents having the legal ability to gain visitation access to their grandchildren under two very narrow circumstances:
1. The grandparents have had a very good relationship with their grandchildren. Then, their child dies, and the surviving parent (the grandparents' S- or DIL) decides to cut off all access to the grandparents (out of grief, spite, remarriage, whatever).
2. The grandparents have been raising their grandchildren as de facto parents. Perhaps their child has died or disappeared. The other parent has done similarly. Then, one day, years later, the absent, surviving parent shows up, claims custody, and decides that the grandparents should no longer be allowed to see their children who they have raised for years.

In both of these scenarios, it would be traumatic to the children to lose their grandparents. In Scenario 1, the children have lost their mother or father; it would be even worse to lose an entire side of the family. Some states, when considering stepparent adoption, still have provisions for biological grandparents to visit their grandchildren. In Scenario 2, the grandchildren lose their de facto parents. (My best childhood friend lived with her maternal grandparents from the time she was 2, after her mom died. Her father left while her mom was pregnant and was never in the picture. Can you imagine the trauma if her dad had resurfaced when she was, say, 12, got custody, and forbid her from even contacting the only parents she ever really knew? In that case, I think rights should be extended to all de facto parents, whether they're grandparents, stepparents, aunts, neighbors, etc.)

This does presume that the grandparents are decent people (which we know is true in not all cases), and that the courts will be fair (ditto).

Note that I do not support grandparents pursuing visitation (or custody, for that matter) if their children are alive, competent, and in the picture. Then, it's up to the adult children. I don't think grandparents should be able to get separate visitation when their grandchildren's parents get divorced...if non-custodial Mom or Dad wants her or his parents to see the grandkids, s/he can invite them over during his/her time (or arrange a trip with consent of the ex or otherwise per the custody agreement).
Well put!

Quote:
Originally Posted by harleyhalfmoon View Post
Can anyone here honestly say that, if your children grew up and if, for whatever reason, they decided that they did not want your grandchildren in your life, you'd just say, okay, and walk away?
I wouldn't say "okay" and just walk away. I'd be hurt but it's my children's choice at that point.

I'm going to be cutting all ties with my mother VERY soon if she continues on the path she's on. She is a toxic person. She used to beat me from the age of about 12 until I moved out at 19. It stopped briefly after I started fighting back but then she got brave and started hitting me again. She is a freaking tramp and has been cheating on my father for quite some time now and will get into a screaming match with me when I tell her that if she leaves my father for this scum (which she fully intends on doing) HE is not welcome in my home. She however twists everything I say around and is telling my family that I said she can't be happy and that I'm going to take her grandchildren away from her if she leaves my father at all- no matter what the reason is and that I said she had to stay with him regardless of what she wanted if she wanted to see my kids when I NEVER said that. She is bipolar but SEVERELY and she has some severe behavioral issues. She has physically abused my father (he couldn't do anything about it because cops actually told him that it's impossible for a wife to abuse her spouse : ) myself, and my brother. She knows never to touch my children in a harmful manner because of what would clearly be a UA violation. She neglected me as a baby, my dad said he'd come home from work and my mom was SOUND asleep while I was crying in my crib. She fights with everyone, seriously, all you have to do is look at her and she'll start screaming. She had my father arrested in 1999 FOR NO REASON. SHE LIED to have him arrested and then started spreading rumors throughout the family that she was afraid that he was going to sexually abuse me : Yeah right. My father is HARMLESS. My dad had to send me to live with my Aunt because my mom would NOT stop hitting me. He was trying to find a place to live so he could leave her but he needed me in a safe place during that. It got to the point where my Aunt would not let me accept phone calls from my mother because all my mother was doing was SCREAMING at me for ruining her life. She kept telling me how *I* was the reason her husband was leaving her. He ended up taking her back because she *APPEARED* to have gotten better. She got worse again after about 6 months. The school also ended up not letting me take phone calls from her because she was calling me and SCREAMING so loudly that the office staff could hear her and I would be standing there in tears.

My mom is a toxic person and will outright lie to make the person she is angry with look like a horrible monstrous person. Her and my father are getting ready to be divorced and she felt the need to tell my oldest son (WHO IS ONLY 5) that she's leaving his "Poppa"(my dad says he's too young to be grandpa lol). She had no right to bring my son into this and she knows that. She did it to make him hate his Poppa (she eluded that poppa was mean to her).

If she keeps doing it, I'm either changing my phone #, pressing charges for harassment (she calls multiple times after being hung up on. Seriously within a 2 min span last night her number showed up like 4x on my caller ID), or getting a restraining order- possibly all 3.

Should this woman have any rights to her grandchildren? NO. She's abusive, vindictive, manipulative, cruel, cold hearted, the list goes on. Should I be forced to let her see my kids? I THINK EMPHATICALLY NOT! I am the parent and it is my responsibility to do what's in the best interest of my children. If I continued to let such a person in my children's lives, I would be failing miserably as a parent. FWIW, she would NEVER directly harm my children. The reason why I feel she should not see them (if she continues this) is because my children should not have to watch her treat people like this and see her hurt other people. If my mom were to some day get the psychiatric help that she really needs, there is no reason why I wouldn't let her see the kids. Right now though, she bounces back and forth. One day she's SUPER SUPER SWEET and I love her to death and the very next day (sometimes even later that night) she's screaming at me and the toxic woman comes out. We need for her to be the loving, super sweet woman all the time.

FTR, if my mom tried to sue me, she has child abuse charges against her and she'd get nowhere. The judge would not side with her.

Now, my IL's. MIL is fine. I would never deny her the chance to see the kids.

FIL and StepMIL are rude to all of us. For 5 years they have treated me like I wasn't good enough for DP. When watching older DS, they refuse to do things by our rules. They constantly undermine EVERY SINGLE THING we do. We cloth diaper- they hate it. They tell us how they don't approve. I'm still BFing younger DS and they have made it quite clear that they don't approve of extended BFing regardless of the fact that DS has little to no interest in food and he has food allergies. We homeschool and they berated us about that and let us know how stupid our reasoning was IN FRONT OF our homeschooled child. The rarely come to visit and they live about 20 minutes away. It's disgusting. They missed younger DS's birthday party and showed up nearly 2 weeks later...I want to cut ties with them but DP won't let me bc he claims that they just don't know any better. If DP died, I'd cut ties with them because of the way they treat me and my older son. If we moved out of state, I KNOW they wouldn't come and visit us and while I wouldn't necessarily cut ties, I wouldn't drive out here to see them. The way it is now, I don't go to their house unless it's a special occasion. DP is free to take Adam up there but Adam strongly dislikes them and won't go unless he's forced to. DP can't take the baby bc he still very much needs to BF'd SO DP has to go alone. I didn't cut ties but I won't go to their home bc it's like they feel they have free run. When they're here, if they're rude, I can make them leave. I'll be damned if someone is going to talk down to me in my own home. When younger DS cuts out some of his nursing sessions, he's free to go with his daddy to visit them but for right now, since he NEEDS to be with me and I won't go, he can't go.

Grandparents have PRIVILEGES and those privileges can be revoked and SHOULD BE revoked if they can not act in an acceptable manner.

In the cases where the parents are just being mean and refusing the gparents visitation, well I don't think the court should be able to mandate anything but I feel sad because I don't think the parents should be being so mean.
DBassett is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:34 AM
 
offwing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: WNY
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is senseless to use one's own personal expereince as the sole deciding factor for laws that are meant to shape the lives of millions.

Extreme cases make bad law, and many of the stories here are hearbreakingly exteme.

But for every toxic grandparent story there is a toxic parent story where the only sanity in a kid's life comes from the influence of an extended family.

I certainly think there should be a tough standard for grandparents to have rights. Ever consideration should be taken to maintain parental control.

Nonetheless, I can't support removing all chances of a legal right for grandparents. There is just no way to have that kind of absolute law provides the flexibility that is needed to come up with the best solutions for the most people.
offwing is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:31 AM
 
RoadWorkAhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,995
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ack, babies erasing posts

For once, I like living in Fla. I like knowing that I can control who my children see. I have judiciously mentioned to each of our families the circumstances under which they would lose the right to see my children. For DH's family, it was over accepting my DS as one of their clan (which they now do beautifully). For my mom, it was her obsession w/ weight (particularly mine)...It wasn't purposefully mean, but it was IMO not good for my children to hear - She now gets it and life is grand, she's so close to my DS. As for my dad,well, he knows he's walking on thin ice b/c of his wife. He'll be allowed to see them if he steps up and chooses to do so alone, but hs wife will have extremely limited, supervised contact w/ my children. If I were to die, she has threatened to try and take my son from my DH (his biodad has legally abandoned). Is she concerned for my DS and DD's relationship as sibs? ONly insomuch as she could then try and take DD from DH. She has in the past attempted to teach my child to tell me he wants to be her child and not mine- She would sue if we lived in a different state b/c she wants kids (shes 29, and has none) and dad is fixed perm (and too old to adopt)....I know b/c shes said as much. I find the way she treats my dad deplorable and bordering on abusive, but the courts won't see that. Could I prove her horribly toxic? Not without dying in a mountain of debt. Is it still my call as their parent to decide? Yes it sure is. The court having the right to mandate GPV is like the court having the right to mandate any number of other parenting choices we make, and frankly, I go with parents rights on this. I don't want the court to tell me I must do compulsory ed or vax, or wean, or anything else.
RoadWorkAhead is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:11 PM
 
mamazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: US midwest
Posts: 7,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
People who were raised by AP parents might be less likely to seek out information about AP because they lived it growing up and don't need as much help. Those of us from troubled families are more likely to need information and resources, so we're more likely to seek out a community like this. That's probably why there are more people from troubled families of origin here. I doubt most people who AP in general were raised in troubled families.

My husband is very close to his family and I adore them. He was raised pretty AP and doesn't need to read books or anything because it all comes very naturally to him. I need to read.
mamazee is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:50 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: raising the revolution
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I will say that my daughter's grandparents on both sides are pretty wonderful, but for some *issues* here and there. I don't believe they are *toxic* or *murderous* or anything of the sort --- HOWEVEVER... even if they were the friggin' Waltons of the Brady's (think Brady Bunch) it is still not ANYONE ELSE'S RIGHT BUT MINE (and dh) AND MY CHILD'S to determine who my child spends time with.

Being a grandparent, or ANYONE in my child's life, is a privledge, not a right. I believe even being my own child's mother is a gift I have been given from God and I don't take that lightly either. However, as someone who takes that gift very seriously, it is up TO ME (and dh, and dd when she is older) to determine who in her life is either adding to her security, love, happiness -- or who is taking away from it or compromising it....

Besides, as mammal_mama (and others) have brought up -- how in the world does anyone think taking someone's parents to court is going to create warm and fuzzy *wanna spend time with you* feelings in a child?

If someone took my parents to court with the intention of gaining visits BY FORCE, I would have been SO resentful... and my parents made a lot of mistakes in raising me... but it still would have left a sour taste in my mouth.

Again, happy to be living in Florida. I like my parental rights thanks.
captain crunchy is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:10 PM
 
dubfam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In My Urban Garden
Posts: 1,973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
I guess because we as parents have the wild, unreasonable, crazy, insane belief that we should be the ones who ultimately determine who our children spend our time with and unfortunately, sometimes choose to deprive grandparents of their God given right to beat or molest or otherwise damage our children : How dare we take that away from them? :
That is exactly how my Father feels!
dubfam is offline  
Old 09-28-2007, 11:37 PM
 
dallaschildren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,609
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This thread has been returned after editing for MDC User Agreement Violations. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages within a reasonable time frame, if we determine removal is necessary. If you feel another member is behaving in a manner that is in violation of these rules, do not take matters into your own hands.

Dallaschildren
dallaschildren is offline  
Old 09-29-2007, 12:14 PM
 
mamazee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: US midwest
Posts: 7,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
People who were raised by AP parents might be less likely to seek out information about AP because they lived it growing up and don't need as much help. Those of us from troubled families are more likely to need information and resources, so we're more likely to seek out a community like this. That's probably why there are more people from troubled families of origin here. I doubt most people who AP in general were raised in troubled families.

My husband is very close to his family and I adore them. He was raised pretty AP and doesn't need to read books or anything because it all comes very naturally to him. I need to read.
My post doesn't make much sense in this thread anymore.
mamazee is offline  
Old 10-01-2007, 12:07 PM
 
mammal_mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Urban Midwestern USA
Posts: 6,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by offwing View Post
Extreme cases make bad law, and many of the stories here are hearbreakingly exteme.

But for every toxic grandparent story there is a toxic parent story where the only sanity in a kid's life comes from the influence of an extended family.
First you say "Extreme cases make bad law" -- then you talk about extreme cases where parents are toxic and "the only sanity in a kid's life comes from the influence of extended family." Why should there be a law based on such extremes?

Quote:
I certainly think there should be a tough standard for grandparents to have rights. Ever consideration should be taken to maintain parental control.
I think the "tough standard" should be that there are no pro-grandparents rights laws in effect. In the rare cases where parents are toxic -- that's child-abuse and should be treated as such.

And for anyone who argues that the parents may be "toxic" without doing anything that could be recognized as abuse -- I'm sorry, that's simply not toxic enough to justify interfering with parental rights.

Quote:
Nonetheless, I can't support removing all chances of a legal right for grandparents. There is just no way to have that kind of absolute law provides the flexibility that is needed to come up with the best solutions for the most people.
I don't think there should be a specific law. If grandparents are raising their grandkids, they need to get guardianship so the parents can't flit back in and jerk the kids around. As you've said, such extreme cases don't justify passing a law that can interfere with other families.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
mammal_mama is offline  
Old 10-01-2007, 12:29 PM
 
Iris' Mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:

And, judges are not Solomon's. I'm sorry, courts just cannot be relied upon to wade through complex family relationship and "divide the child" equitably. Plus, litigation is so costly, and the one with the most resources, or backed by a politically active well financed organization (like say, one devoted to grandparents' rights), can win or completely exhaust and bankrupt the other side to the extreme detriment of the child. I do feel bad for GP who are loving and get cut out of their GC lives, and I hope to heck it never happens to me, but the courts just are not the solution.
Iris' Mom is offline  
Old 10-01-2007, 02:00 PM
 
mammal_mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Urban Midwestern USA
Posts: 6,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iris' Mom View Post
I do feel bad for GP who are loving and get cut out of their GC lives, and I hope to heck it never happens to me, but the courts just are not the solution.
That's it in nutshell.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
mammal_mama is offline  
Old 10-01-2007, 03:45 PM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 25,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
First you say "Extreme cases make bad law" -- then you talk about extreme cases where parents are toxic and "the only sanity in a kid's life comes from the influence of extended family." Why should there be a law based on such extremes?

I think the "tough standard" should be that there are no pro-grandparents rights laws in effect. In the rare cases where parents are toxic -- that's child-abuse and should be treated as such.
I agree. When I first read the post about "the only sanity in a kid's life", I thought of an old friend of mine who was in that exact position. His grandmother was the only positive influence he remembers having as a child. It would have been sick to cut her off. But, if she'd wanted legal recourse, I think the fact that his mom abandoned him, and his father was neglectful (to the point of leaving the 4 kids home alone with no food, and sometimes no utilities, for days when the oldest was only 8) and abusive (verbally and physically). I absolutely agree that his grandmother should have been in his life...but I think charges for the abuse would have done a lot more good than fighting for access under some "grandparents rights" law.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off