Help! Bucket seats have invaded Denmark! - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-18-2007, 04:04 PM
 
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Most of the time, I shop at one of two grocery stores. A bucket will fit in the basket of the cart at one of them, but if I put ds2 in the seat, I might as well go home, as there's not enough room left for more than 2 or 3 items. The shopping baskets at that store won't fit on the lower shelf, either.

At the other store, the cart has two baskets - a small one behind the seat, and a full-sized one on the bottom. Fitting a bucket into the lower basket is almost impossible. If I manage it, I can't really put much in there, because the upper basket and the side of the bucket block off most of the lower basket, leaving only a small gap at each side to fit things in (a gallon of milk, for example will not go into the basket). That means my groceries almost all go into the upper basket...meaning I can't see my baby!! That doesn't work for me at all.

I'm going to ask my mom what she did when she shopped with us as infants. Slings/carriers weren't really around, so I know she didn't use one. If I have another baby who hates being worn, it wouldn't hurt to find an alternative to the bucket. I still won't wake up a sleeping baby unless I absolutely have to, though...so baby stays in the bucket at the store, unless he/she is awake when we get there.

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Old 10-18-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Most of the time, I shop at one of two grocery stores. A bucket will fit in the basket of the cart at one of them, but if I put ds2 in the seat, I might as well go home, as there's not enough room left for more than 2 or 3 items. The shopping baskets at that store won't fit on the lower shelf, either.

At the other store, the cart has two baskets - a small one behind the seat, and a full-sized one on the bottom. Fitting a bucket into the lower basket is almost impossible. If I manage it, I can't really put much in there, because the upper basket and the side of the bucket block off most of the lower basket, leaving only a small gap at each side to fit things in (a gallon of milk, for example will not go into the basket). That means my groceries almost all go into the upper basket...meaning I can't see my baby!! That doesn't work for me at all.

I'm going to ask my mom what she did when she shopped with us as infants. Slings/carriers weren't really around, so I know she didn't use one. If I have another baby who hates being worn, it wouldn't hurt to find an alternative to the bucket. I still won't wake up a sleeping baby unless I absolutely have to, though...so baby stays in the bucket at the store, unless he/she is awake when we get there.

Superstore? That's where we have carts like that here. I can't remember if I used a bucket in there. I think I put it in the bottom basket, and put small times aorund it and in top basket, andnad larger items underneath. I do remember just having her lay on a jacket or blanket in the bottom part too. Obviously before she was sitting up or puling up or crawling at all.

It was way easier once she was big enough to sit in the seat. Now she wants to sit in the back, and I can't let her, of course, so we hate those carts.

The one good thing, if you have 2 kids, is they both fit in the seats at the top. (as soon as baby is big enough, that is.)
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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Superstore? That's where we have carts like that here. I can't remember if I used a bucket in there. I think I put it in the bottom basket, and put small times aorund it and in top basket, andnad larger items underneath. I do remember just having her lay on a jacket or blanket in the bottom part too. Obviously before she was sitting up or puling up or crawling at all.
Yes - Superstore. I could rarely get the bucket in the bottom. I can't imagine doing the jacket/blanket thing with dd - tried it once, and she went totally and utterly ballistic. I probably should have at least tried it with ds2 - totally different personality. OTOH, I personally really like to have my baby where I can see him/her while shopping.

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It was way easier once she was big enough to sit in the seat. Now she wants to sit in the back, and I can't let her, of course, so we hate those carts.

The one good thing, if you have 2 kids, is they both fit in the seats at the top. (as soon as baby is big enough, that is.)
I have two young kids, and they do fit in the seat. Of course, when baby-under-construction arrives, I have to juggle them again.

What do you mean "sit in the back" - the upper basket? DD sits there quite often. As long as she stays seated, I don't worry about it.

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Old 10-18-2007, 04:38 PM
 
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Yes - Superstore. I could rarely get the bucket in the bottom. I can't imagine doing the jacket/blanket thing with dd - tried it once, and she went totally and utterly ballistic. I probably should have at least tried it with ds2 - totally different personality. OTOH, I personally really like to have my baby where I can see him/her while shopping.


I have two young kids, and they do fit in the seat. Of course, when baby-under-construction arrives, I have to juggle them again.

What do you mean "sit in the back" - the upper basket? DD sits there quite often. As long as she stays seated, I don't worry about it.

I remember pushing the cart kinda from the side, trying to watch Rachel while she was in the bottom basket. It sucked.

By back, I mean the lower basket. Rachel still needs to be reminded contsantly to stay sitting down. When she's older, that may work, right now, it's too risky.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
as i assumed, the majority of the shopping cart accidents come from misuse or irresponsible use
Quote:
Injuries to children associated with shopping carts occur via several mechanisms:
falling from carts, carts tipping over, and other mechanisms such as becoming
entrapped in a cart, falling off a cart while riding on the outside, striking
against a cart, and being run over by a cart
.2 Falls from shopping carts and cart
tip-overs accounted for 58% and 26% of injuries, respectively, in one study.2
Among children younger than 2 years in this study, tip-over injuries accounted for
38% of shopping cart–related injuries.2 [/QUOTE]

What you bolded isn't what made up the majority of injuries. I read it as "Falls from shopping carts and cart
tip-overs accounted for 58% and 26% of injuries, respectively, in one study

Falls from carts is considered a category wholly by itself. "Other mechanisms" is clearly defined there when it says "and other mechanisms such as becoming entrapped in a cart, falling off a cart while riding on the outside, striking against a cart, and being run over by a cart". In the excerpt you quoted, it doesn't breakdown "falls from shopping carts".
How does this relate to infant car seats are restraints for motor vehicles? I'm confused.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dallaschildren View Post
Quote:
Injuries to children associated with shopping carts occur via several mechanisms:
falling from carts, carts tipping over, and other mechanisms such as becoming
entrapped in a cart, falling off a cart while riding on the outside, striking
against a cart, and being run over by a cart
.2 Falls from shopping carts and cart
tip-overs accounted for 58% and 26% of injuries, respectively, in one study.2
Among children younger than 2 years in this study, tip-over injuries accounted for
38% of shopping cart–related injuries.2

What you bolded isn't what made up the majority of injuries. It said "Falls from shopping carts and cart
tip-overs accounted for 58% and 26% of injuries, respectively, in one study

Falls from carts is considered a category wholly by itself. "Other mechanisms" is clearly defined there when it says "and other mechanisms such as becoming entrapped in a cart, falling off a cart while riding on the outside, striking against a cart, and being run over by a cart". In the excerpt you quoted, it doesn't breakdown "falls from shopping carts".
and depending on which study you trust, its still only 26 - 58% of the injurys...
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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Peg Perego recommends it not be done but have left it up to the discretion of the parent by not addressing it specifically in their manual.
You don't say.

So, you're telling me that this company knows that their product can be used in a horrifyingly dangerous way, but chooses instead to keep their customers totally in the dark about this liability.

I don't buy it. Not when I can't purchase a cup of coffee these days that doesn't say "Warning! Contents hot!" on the side of the cup.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:18 PM
 
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I'm going to ask my mom what she did when she shopped with us as infants. Slings/carriers weren't really around, so I know she didn't use one.
Maybe she left you in the car!!!
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:22 PM
 
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We used a bucket seat / carrier until wee man was around 7 months old and he got too big for it. It would only be mean if we'd left him in it all the time. If he was unhappy he'd let us know believe me! But a good portion of the time he'd nap in the car or coo and smile in stores and restaurants. I can't imagine waking him when he was a tiny baby to put him in a carrier. That seems mean to me.

I use the carrier a lot now because he really likes and I like it too. If he hated it the stroller would get a lot more use for sure.

Isn't AP about being in tune of the needs of your own child versus being mommier than though about every other mother?
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:30 PM
 
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So where do you put your baby then? Should we sling a screaming baby who hates being worn? Throw them in the seat inside the cart? Or just leave them at home? Some places have carts with built in car seats, but I could never seem to get one. I would always keep a hand on the car seat as I went through the store. Never walked away, always kept a hand firmly on the seat on the cart..
Don't you know that women with small children should just not leave the house for 6 or 8 months? Thats how it was done In The Olden Days! If you don't have one of your mothers living with you, you just have the grocery store send over the Delivery Boy, of course!

.... My kids both outgrew the bucket pretty quick (5mos for one, 4mos for the other). If the sling wasn't working, I would use my coat to line the seat area of the cart and then put the padded sling into it, and then nestle baby into that...

(waits for someone to explain how horrifically dangerous that was)

I also shopped with a framed backpack rather than the sling once my older child was sitting up well enough, since he liked that better and couldn't shred the kale while I was selecting which bunch to buy.

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Old 10-18-2007, 06:59 PM
 
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I think what we all need to remember is common sense people. Common sense.

Mommy to THREE sweet boys & ONE sweet girl + a newb due in February!  I need a nap. 
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:13 PM
 
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Instead of lobbying against the bucket (loved mine at times), why don't you expend your energy educating people about the joys of babywearing?

You can start with your playgroup.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:52 PM
 
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You don't say.

So, you're telling me that this company knows that their product can be used in a horrifyingly dangerous way, but chooses instead to keep their customers totally in the dark about this liability.

I don't buy it. Not when I can't purchase a cup of coffee these days that doesn't say "Warning! Contents hot!" on the side of the cup.
Um. It wouldn't be the first time a company has done something like it. . One need only look to mounds of case law as proof that there are plenty of product liability lawsuits for failure to warn, faulty design, and misrepresentation among other things. Whether said cases are all legit is for a different thread and is a different topic.

Feel free to call Peg Perego customer service and ask them. Anyone else want to call? Here's the customer service number:

USA Customer Service Hours:
Monday - Friday
8:00am to 8:30pm EST

USA Infant & Toddler Product Customer Service: (800) 671-1701
USA Ride-On Vehicle Customer Service: (800) 728-2108
USA Spanish-Speaking Customer Service: (800) 225-1558
USA Customer Service Fax: (260) 471-6332

If you feel comfortable clipping your Peg Perego car seat to a shopping cart, then it is my opinion that you have calculated the risk and appear to be comfortable with it. My warning is for those who don't know or haven't thought about it, and therefore aren't armed with the information necessary to make an educated decision no matter what infant car seat they have.
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Old 10-18-2007, 10:39 PM
 
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:32 AM
 
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I havent read any of these posts yet, but to the OP:

Those suck! I used one with my kids and always thought "why am I doing this to my body!" They are sooooooooooooooooooo annoying to carry everywhere!!!

I dont know why so many americans carry them, honestly. :
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:38 AM
 
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So its like exactly like that babywearing shit? Where they dont walk for themselves?
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:05 AM
 
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I havent read any of these posts yet, but to the OP:

Those suck! I used one with my kids and always thought "why am I doing this to my body!" They are sooooooooooooooooooo annoying to carry everywhere!!!

I dont know why so many americans carry them, honestly. :
I love mine. I don't find it that heavy.

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Old 10-19-2007, 01:11 AM
 
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I love mine. I don't find it that heavy.
Its not as heavy as it is akward, for me.
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Old 10-19-2007, 11:03 AM
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Oh, I hated carrying the bucket around. I'm short and frankly weak, and it really was heavy and awkward for me. But it's not like I used it for a walk around the block. I carried her from the car into the house, or from the car to the stroller. I found it very useful in all the ways observed (though she wasn't one to sleep in it at night), and yes, she was frequently in it for more than 45 minutes a stretch, as I wasn't about to wake her if she was snoozing. If she was in it and awake she usually got picked up pretty promptly, as she's so flipping adorable it's hard for me to keep my hands off of her.

BTW, I almost always put the carrier in the main basket of the shopping cart; it always just felt more secure to me. Really can't imagine why that would be unsafe??? I miss it for that purpose now that she has outgrown it--now she has to sit in the uncomfortable, germy child seats up top, or else I have to haul around one of those godawful shopping cart covers. She's WAY too heavy for me to sling around the supermarket now--besides, how would I ever lift the 30 lb bucket of kitty litter with a baby attached to me??
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:08 PM
 
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I have winter babies, and I live in Iowa. It gets VERY VERY VERY cold here. No way I'm pulling my coat-less newborn into the freezing cold, struggeling to put a coat on a floppy newborn, and THEN carrying her to big brother-repeat (I do put a coat on James, but mainly because 1) He can stand in the back of the van and 2) He can help). It's freezing outside. I have the little cassarole cover over the carseat...I'm probably gonna leave her in it...at least until we get into the store, then I'll pull her out and sling her (if anything to keep strangers from touching her).

If I had a spring/summer baby I probably wouldn't worry about it so much, but winter in Iowa is pretty dreadful.

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
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Old 10-19-2007, 12:33 PM
 
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I have winter babies, and I live in Iowa. It gets VERY VERY VERY cold here. No way I'm pulling my coat-less newborn into the freezing cold, struggeling to put a coat on a floppy newborn, and THEN carrying her to big brother-repeat (I do put a coat on James, but mainly because 1) He can stand in the back of the van and 2) He can help). It's freezing outside. I have the little cassarole cover over the carseat...I'm probably gonna leave her in it...at least until we get into the store, then I'll pull her out and sling her (if anything to keep strangers from touching her).

If I had a spring/summer baby I probably wouldn't worry about it so much, but winter in Iowa is pretty dreadful.
ooh, yeah, I have only lived away from winter for 2 years and I have already forgotten! LOL

Denmark is pretty friggin cold too though, OP, isnt it?

How do danish mommys deal with cold? (Is that right, danish? Ugh-I didnt retain anything from school---I am sorry if I sound totally uneducated!)
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:01 PM
 
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ooh, yeah, I have only lived away from winter for 2 years and I have already forgotten! LOL

Denmark is pretty friggin cold too though, OP, isnt it?

How do danish mommys deal with cold? (Is that right, danish? Ugh-I didnt retain anything from school---I am sorry if I sound totally uneducated!)
http://www.mapsofworld.com/denmark/denmark-weather.html

Looks like the weather is pretty mild.

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Old 10-19-2007, 01:32 PM
 
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I have winter babies, and I live in Iowa. It gets VERY VERY VERY cold here. No way I'm pulling my coat-less newborn into the freezing cold, struggeling to put a coat on a floppy newborn, and THEN carrying her to big brother-repeat (I do put a coat on James, but mainly because 1) He can stand in the back of the van and 2) He can help). It's freezing outside. I have the little cassarole cover over the carseat...I'm probably gonna leave her in it...at least until we get into the store, then I'll pull her out and sling her (if anything to keep strangers from touching her).

If I had a spring/summer baby I probably wouldn't worry about it so much, but winter in Iowa is pretty dreadful.
Yeah I'm in MN/ND and we regularly get -35 F. wind chills and -20 F. temps during the winter. Average low is -18. I totally feel your pain and I use my bucket all the time in the winter.

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Old 10-19-2007, 02:28 PM
 
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I didn't have a bucket system but I can see how they would really come in handy at times.
If the baby is sleeping in the bucket you simply can't judge. We had one of those bed-in-a-prams a PP or two mentioned (not very practical for the car--the bed was actually the carseat but it takes up the whole backseat) but I remember sometimes we'd walk down to a restaurant, sit outside, and DS would sleep the whole time. So no, he didn't get out of his pram for about 2 hours. Guess who was at home snuggling him for the next three hours while he nursed on and off?


I saw two buckets this morning in a doctor's waiting room. Both babies were sleeping when they came in. They both woke up around the same time. One mama, whose DP was with her, took her baby out immediately, held him, nursed him, let him look around the room and take it all in, etc. The other mama did a bit of cooing first (she was alone and had a toddler with her too, I can understand her not being quite ready for her break to be over) but when the baby began to fuss she took her out and held her. The dr. kindly grabbed the bucket for her so she didn't need to put the baby back in. The buckets were a great convenience but not misused. Is it preferable to wake a sleeping baby to wait in a pretty boring room for an hour?
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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Yeah I'm in MN/ND and we regularly get -35 F. wind chills and -20 F. temps during the winter. Average low is -18. I totally feel your pain and I use my bucket all the time in the winter.
Oh, brrrr, it's not quite THAT cold thankfully. But we have our fair share of below zero days and pushing the double digits below zero with the windchill.

For me it's the trying to bundle up a floppy newborn while my backside is hanging out the van and I'm freezing half to death myself. I'd much rather go get James, toss a coat on him, come back to baby, zip the casserole cover (I'm sure it has a proper name, I call it a casserole cover?), grab the car seat, throw a blanket over her and walk into the store/drs office/coffee shop/whatever

She'll be born early November (or so they tell me) so I will probably be able to leave the car seat in the car for a couple weeks, but come mid-November, early December it'll be WINTER in Iowa...brrrrrrr

I wish DH didn't need to stay in Iowa for his job, I'd SOOO become a snow-bird in the winter, Florida here I come!

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:44 PM
 
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I am very thankful to be in FL while my kids are young. Dh wants to live in a snowy place but I cannot imagine dressing 3 kids everyday for cold weather. I would spend all day just getting us dressed!

We'll move when the kids are old enough to dress themselves.
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Old 10-19-2007, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well it is minus 2c (about 28-30f) right now, so yea, it gets cold here. We had a snowman last Christmas that lasted late january/early february. The real issue is the darkness. By Christmas, it will be dark until 10am, and the sun will set again after lunch. Of course in mid-july it doesn't set until 10pm, and we have beautiful sunsets.

Well, thats way OT. I hope people have relaxed a bit. I was not trying to get a war here about these car seat strollers making people "bad" parents. I do not think AP parents who use them are leaving their kids in there for 5-6 hours straight on a regular basis. What I have seen is my own english mother-baby group, and 6 out of 8 of us do this. So it scares me. What I am concerned about is the health factors (bad spine, emotional detatchment....) from prolonged use, which I think is easy to get into the bad habit of, with these car seat-strollers. I think the mainstream public should be informed of this. No, I do not need to take the worlds problems on my shoulders, but everyone has to start somewhere, and stand up for something. This is my hill I think.

PS - Transformed - I like your new tagline.

PPS - the sleeping baby in cold issue. Mainstream, and some AP as well, use barnevogns for sleeping. It is literally a big fancy crib on wheels, with a mini unit for small babes, a raincoat that covers the whole thing in rain (a lot of rain here) a dark mesh thing for shade when they are sleeping.... These barenevogns pack down for car transport, but most danes also do a lot of walking with it to the store for shopping (there is a huge rack underneath can hold 4 full bags). You can take your barnevogn on the buses and trains - there is a special space for them. My common transport is bus, bike and walking, and this is normal for most Danes. If you are really far from work you drive, or take the train. See here: http://www.tojbamsen.dk/group.asp?group=575&sub=59
and mine: http://abrosenlund.com/photos/View.php?pictno=18
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Old 10-19-2007, 08:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AllisonR View Post
PPS - the sleeping baby in cold issue. Mainstream, and some AP as well, use barnevogns for sleeping. It is literally a big fancy crib on wheels, with a mini unit for small babes, a raincoat that covers the whole thing in rain (a lot of rain here) a dark mesh thing for shade when they are sleeping.... These barenevogns pack down for car transport, but most danes also do a lot of walking with it to the store for shopping (there is a huge rack underneath can hold 4 full bags). You can take your barnevogn on the buses and trains - there is a special space for them. My common transport is bus, bike and walking, and this is normal for most Danes. If you are really far from work you drive, or take the train. See here: http://www.tojbamsen.dk/group.asp?group=575&sub=59
and mine: http://abrosenlund.com/photos/View.php?pictno=18

I've read most of the thread but I apologize if I missed something. So Danes use prams a lot is what I gather, right?
So what's the diff between the prams and buckling the carseat in a stroller? IMO, the carseat+stroller configuration would seem to be more convenient since you don't have to wake a sleeping baby.

When I was pregnant, I swore I would not be one of those parents that carried carseats to the store. Well, of course reality and winter set in and I had to eat my words a bit. When DS was a newborn, he slept A LOT and I felt it would be much kinder to let him sleep while I shopped. I wasn't that comfortable with the sling yet so carseat inside the main basket of the cart was the compromise for me. I had a huge bucket so putting the seat on top of the little basket scared me. And it also helped that we did not have to mess with snowsuits and all. The carseat was warm all the time and blankets kept my DS warm.
Of course it goes without saying that whenever DS was awake, he'd be out of the carseat. Come to think of it, I've never seen a child that was crying/fussing in their seats NOT be attended to by their moms.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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As so many have said, it doesn't matter if kid is in car seat, stroller, barnevogn.... if they are sleeping, let them be, and if fussing, pick them up. The *problem* with the car seat is that the child is in a curled position, supported by the seat and not his own body. Perfect when you are in a car reck - because then the seat is doing the supporting, not the baby having to protect himself with his own strength. Not so perfect when he is not in the car - he needs to use his won body, not be stuck in a position that does all the work for him.

The car seat on wheels is fine, except when it is overused, in which case it causes flat heads, spinal problems (not to mention emotional detatchment imo). If a child is in your arms, in a sling, in a stroller, in a barenevogn.... whatever mix you like, they can use more of their body. A sling is actually very good for strength and spine, a barenevogn they can ly on their backs or side, or sit using their pwn body if old enough....

Again, I don't see overuse by AP, but I can, and have seen firsthand, abuse by mainstream mommas, who use it every day, for 4,5,8 hours. (Note: I am not saying all mainstream mommas do this. I feel I have to watch every single word I write or someone will take offense. But now I digress.)
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:07 AM
 
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We have similar strollers here in germany, and they also tilt up in the back to support newborn babies. I don't see a difference between those and the bucket seats. Honestly, of all the things to get upset about, that should be on the bottom of your list.

It's been said repeatedly, those who would ignore the child in a bucket would probably do the same thing in a stroller.
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