A saleswoman put her hands on my ds!!! Update post 16 - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I'm really uncomforatble with some of these reactions. Apparently being gentle only extends to our own children.

This is a really good reason to keep an eye on our kids in stores. If you don't appear to be doing it, you open the door for someone to do it for you. It may not be right, but clearly it happens. I'd way rather keep my own child close and help her investigate things than have some stranger do it for me.
Well in this case he was right next to me.

I think some of the mamas are just saying what their initial instinct is. Not that they would follow through with violence.

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#32 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 08:35 PM
 
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I think everyones reaction was a little overboard. It is fine to tell her that she may not talk to your child that way or to touch him. it is fine to tell her if she has a problem with you she needs to take it up with you. it is fine to never shop there again. it is fine to contact corporate. But to threaten violence or legal action? a bit much in my opinion.

You said she as young. You said you weren't watching your small child and he was messing with stuff. I can see how this could be very stressful for the sales lady. worst case scenario is not him breaking something that the store has to take a loss on (and no, insurance does not cover stuff broken in our store. we throw it in the garbage and take full loss on it. and breaking isn't the only way to ruin merchandise.). worst case is him dropping someting, breaking something, or pulling a shelf down or over on him and hurting himself. which you would no doubt sue the store over.

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#33 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 08:36 PM
 
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I think some of the mamas are just saying what their initial instinct is. Not that they would follow through with violence.
I understand, I'm not worried that the sales lady needs to be warned that several pitchfork-bearing mommas are heading her way It's just...it's very uncomfortable language and not very funny. Trust me, I've been in retail. People DO get violent (even in the nice neighborhoods, even if you're a nice sales person), make threats, throw things, and try to put their hands on you. So...you know, just not cool.
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#34 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think everyones reaction was a little overboard. It is fine to tell her that she may not talk to your child that way or to touch him. it is fine to tell her if she has a problem with you she needs to take it up with you. it is fine to never shop there again. it is fine to contact corporate. But to threaten violence or legal action? a bit much in my opinion.

You said she as young. You said you weren't watching your small child and he was messing with stuff. I can see how this could be very stressful for the sales lady. worst case scenario is not him breaking something that the store has to take a loss on (and no, insurance does not cover stuff broken in our store. we throw it in the garbage and take full loss on it. and breaking isn't the only way to ruin merchandise.). worst case is him dropping someting, breaking something, or pulling a shelf down or over on him and hurting himself. which you would no doubt sue the store over.
Honestly you weren't there so you are doing a bit of assuming of the situation. He wasn't "messing with things" There was a candle holder shaped like train that he was looking at for a while and then picked up, probably to show to me. I was standing right next to him. He wasn't in any sort of position of danger. There were no shelves to pull on top of himself. People should not be putting their hands on other people period, regardless of age. Luckily we have laws to protect us against people who do, regardless of whether you feel that is overboard. Where do you draw the line? How violent should someone get before the police are called?

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#35 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 09:17 PM
 
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Luckily we have laws to protect us against people who do, regardless of whether you feel that is overboard. Where do you draw the line? How violent should someone get before the police are called?
Honestly? This wasn't violent, but it was obnoxious. I don't think it's anywhere near a "call the police" situation.

I think you handled it exactly right.
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#36 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 10:07 PM
 
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Okay ladies, is it just me or does attacking the saleslady seem a little much? I can understand anger and letters to the company, but violence? I thought returning hurt for hurt never got anyone anywhere.
I was wondering that too.

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But to threaten violence or legal action? a bit much in my opinion.
Not threatening violence I can see, but I'm glad the OP is pursuing this with the company. The employee was totally out of line grabbing her son. She (likely) would never have done the same to an adult.

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#37 of 60 Old 11-02-2007, 11:10 PM
 
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You said she as young. You said you weren't watching your small child and he was messing with stuff. I can see how this could be very stressful for the sales lady.
No, she said she didn't have her eyes on him every second. I don't know about you but I can easily know exactly what my two year old is doing even with my back turned. If she is right next to me, even if I am looking at merchandise, I am "watching" her.

Also, every parent knows what their child is capable of. Mine is perfectly capable of handling breakable items in a store and putting them back on a shelf intact. I let her "shop" and she has never broken anything.

I have seen plenty of adults break things in stores though. In fact the other day I fell over a display and knocked over a bunch of things sans toddler.
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#38 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 12:58 AM
 
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Not threatening violence I can see, but I'm glad the OP is pursuing this with the company. The employee was totally out of line grabbing her son. She (likely) would never have done the same to an adult.
I have worked in several major retail chains (only two geared towards children) and in all of my training, "never, ever under any circumstances or in any way touch a child" always comes up. ALWAYS. So this person will be at least written up.
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#39 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 01:28 AM
 
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Where do you draw the line? How violent should someone get before the police are called?

Honestly? For me, I would have picked up my dc, and called the police right then and there. Or, at the very least, walked over to mall security and gotten someone to walk back over to the store with me. Yes it woudl have made a production and a scene, but I woudl want dd to know that someone being physically rough like that is NOT ok and we dont stand for it. I woudl want the sales person to know that you dont touch someone else's kid, ever, period.

TO the OP... I think you handled it perfectly. I too am impressed by how articulate you were with mama protective instincts flairing. I doubt I woudl have been! I am so sorry for your ds, it sounded like he was scared by the way she treated him and I hope he is doing ok. How was he after you left the store?

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#40 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 03:00 AM
 
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I think everyones reaction was a little overboard. It is fine to tell her that she may not talk to your child that way or to touch him. it is fine to tell her if she has a problem with you she needs to take it up with you. it is fine to never shop there again. it is fine to contact corporate. But to threaten violence or legal action? a bit much in my opinion.

You said she as young. You said you weren't watching your small child and he was messing with stuff. I can see how this could be very stressful for the sales lady. worst case scenario is not him breaking something that the store has to take a loss on (and no, insurance does not cover stuff broken in our store. we throw it in the garbage and take full loss on it. and breaking isn't the only way to ruin merchandise.). worst case is him dropping someting, breaking something, or pulling a shelf down or over on him and hurting himself. which you would no doubt sue the store over.
ITA.

I think that the woman was completely out of line. However, I can see how it can be stressful for a salesperson when a small child is handling things, especially when there are a lot of breakables. I used to work at Bath and Body Works, and I can't tell you how often we had kids who's parents said that their little ones were "just looking at things" who broke things, or moved them to places where they shouldn't have been. We used to burn candles in our store, and one day a small child who was handling things ended up pulling down an entire display -- with lots of breakables and burning candles -- on top of himself.

I realize that everyone's comfort level is different for this kind of thing. Some people are ok with kids touching stuff in stores, and some are not. Personally, I am not really down with kids handling breakables, but I would never respond the way that the woman did. A gentle reminder, or even an offer of something that he could handle would have sufficed.
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#41 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 03:51 AM
 
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Luckily we have laws to protect us against people who do, regardless of whether you feel that is overboard. Where do you draw the line? How violent should someone get before the police are called?
I think you handled the situation well and I was impressed with the response you got from the store (at least they didn't take the route "thanks for informing us, we'll investigate"). I did think, though, that it was excessive for you to be telling the clerk that she could be charged with assault. Even if technically that's true, come on! Can you see yourself in court lined up behind someone who's talking about what happened to her in a bar fight, and when it's your turn saying, "Well, the salesgirl TOUCHED my child! No, no, he wasn't hurt. . . but he was annoyed."

In answer to your question "Where do you draw the line?" I don't think the barometer is based on "How angry am I/how violated do I feel?" I think it's more a judgement call of "Can I resolve this situation myself?" Sure there are things that we can ask of law enforcement, but should we?

Police resources are limited. I want the police to be available if my car gets stolen, or if I'm in a car accident, or if someone is stealing something. I think it's ridiculous to threaten or even contemplate involving police for a poorly-considered salesclerk decision such as removing a child's hand from a display.

As an aside:

I'm a little confused by your description of events (not that it okays her response). If your son was RIGHT beside you and likely touching the item in an attempt to show you, how did the salesclerk even get close enough to be touching him and sticking her finger in his face without you noticing? By the time she got that close to him, wouldn't she have been invading your personal space? When I am shopping, I stop inspecting items and look up to respond to the approaching clerks. They wouldn't even get within arm's reach of me.

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#42 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 05:59 AM
 
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I think that you handled the situation very well and the email sent in response to your complaint appears that the corporate is taking the incident seriously.

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#43 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think you handled the situation well and I was impressed with the response you got from the store (at least they didn't take the route "thanks for informing us, we'll investigate"). I did think, though, that it was excessive for you to be telling the clerk that she could be charged with assault. Even if technically that's true, come on! Can you see yourself in court lined up behind someone who's talking about what happened to her in a bar fight, and when it's your turn saying, "Well, the salesgirl TOUCHED my child! No, no, he wasn't hurt. . . but he was annoyed."

In answer to your question "Where do you draw the line?" I don't think the barometer is based on "How angry am I/how violated do I feel?" I think it's more a judgement call of "Can I resolve this situation myself?" Sure there are things that we can ask of law enforcement, but should we?

Police resources are limited. I want the police to be available if my car gets stolen, or if I'm in a car accident, or if someone is stealing something. I think it's ridiculous to threaten or even contemplate involving police for a poorly-considered salesclerk decision such as removing a child's hand from a display.

As an aside:

I'm a little confused by your description of events (not that it okays her response). If your son was RIGHT beside you and likely touching the item in an attempt to show you, how did the salesclerk even get close enough to be touching him and sticking her finger in his face without you noticing? By the time she got that close to him, wouldn't she have been invading your personal space? When I am shopping, I stop inspecting items and look up to respond to the approaching clerks. They wouldn't even get within arm's reach of me.
I was standing to the left of him and she approached him from the right. I think when reading things it's hard to scope the time. The whole grabbing incident happened in seconds.

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#44 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 12:05 PM
 
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I'm not surprised at people saying they would have felt violent towards a stranger grabbing their child.

The term mama bear came from somewhere. I think it is okay for people to acknowledge that they felt, or would have felt, so mad that they would have had the urge to harm someone in order to protect their child.

I know the child was not in a life or death situation but we all have different tolerance levels.

A lot of life and bio factors play into this. For example if someone even yells at my child I see red.

As long as people aren't actually harming someone, I think it is healthy to vocalize how you feel.

I am not advocating hurting someone in anyway, I am just saying that sometimes we instictively feel things. Labeling our feelings as bad isn't healthy.
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#45 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 12:44 PM
 
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Honestly? For me, I would have picked up my dc, and called the police right then and there. Or, at the very least, walked over to mall security and gotten someone to walk back over to the store with me. Yes it woudl have made a production and a scene, but I woudl want dd to know that someone being physically rough like that is NOT ok and we dont stand for it. I woudl want the sales person to know that you dont touch someone else's kid, ever, period.
It's just this sympathy for the employee bs that leads kids to think it's ok for grown ups to manhandle them. NOT OK. I don't give a rat's arse WHAT the circumstances. You touch my kid, you feel my wrath. Don't do it, YOUR mistake.

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#46 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 01:34 PM
 
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Police resources are limited. I want the police to be available if my car gets stolen, or if I'm in a car accident, or if someone is stealing something. I think it's ridiculous to threaten or even contemplate involving police for a poorly-considered salesclerk decision such as removing a child's hand from a display.


I think this is important. I would have been really mad in your situation, too, Jokerama, and I thought you handled it well. I also thought contacting corporate was absolutely appropriate (and I thought their response showed they take this seriously).

But to call the police on something like this makes me : when people are in much more dire straits than having a young obnoxious salesgirl touch your child's hand. (Not that *you* did this, Jokerama, just commenting on the "call the police" comments in general).
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#47 of 60 Old 11-03-2007, 05:37 PM
 
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Grabbing and yelling at a stranger's child is just a very stupid thing to do, and a good way to get yourself instantly beat up or b****ed out. Listen to all the mama bear reactions already.

Calling the police in a situation which has a potential for violence or heated conflict is an appropriate thing to do. It is certainly an appropriate thought to contemplate whether you do it or not. Also, it may be just as much in the interest of the child as the aggressor.
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#48 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 12:23 AM
 
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Grabbing and yelling at a stranger's child is just a very stupid thing to do, and a good way to get yourself instantly beat up or b****ed out. Listen to all the mama bear reactions already.

Calling the police in a situation which has a potential for violence or heated conflict is an appropriate thing to do. It is certainly an appropriate thought to contemplate whether you do it or not. Also, it may be just as much in the interest of the child as the aggressor.

What are you saying? Call the police b/c the mama bear in yourself might come out and you might hurt someone?? Yeah, that's a good idea. Or just don't hurt someone if they touch your child's hand, how 'bout that?
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#49 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 01:36 AM
 
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You handled it very well. As far as being out of line for threatening violence,umm no. She was out of line and grabbing someone else's child out of anger or frustration is violence. She's lucky the OP handled things so well.
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#50 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 01:48 AM
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i think violence on the OP's part would have been out of line but she didn't get violent. i think she handled it quite well. and honestly, violent impulses do spring up when people are mean to my kid. i'd be surprised if i didn't start a screaming fit right then and there.

i'm not surprised the store is taking action though. they would have to. that lady's whole job is to make people feel comfortable buying things they don't need and the sale of which requires no specialized knowledge. all they have is pretty stuff and nice people. this is NOT a statement against consumerism. i, myself on accasion enjoy going to a pretty store where people will treat me politely and i can come home with something i like. it's fun. that's the thing. the whole purpose of that place is to be fun and pretty. the saleslady mae it decidedly not fun and failed at the only part of her job rewuireing any real skill. she flubbed 1/2 the equasion and her job should be in danger, not just because of any attachment we have to ides about treating children (god forbid) like they're real people but because she's bad for business. she can't provide what they sell.

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#51 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 01:54 AM
 
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I think you handled the situation great! No one has the right to touch your child! Your DS is much more important than some stupid candle holder!

I think I would even go so far as to call the number that you received on the e-mail and ask what they plan on doing about the employee. Some kind of action needs to be taken to prevent her from treating another customer the way she did you and your DS.

I say congrats for handling it so well!
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#52 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 02:38 AM
 
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I'm willing to bet that the candle holder was that unbreakable "resin" stuff, anyway.

The salesperson probably has a problem with anger. I think sometimes people like that, especially young adults, see how kids get treated by their own parents - mainstream discipline, public yelling/spanking etc - and erroneously conclude that kids are fair game for everyone.

Especially considering that a lot of parents would have said "oh, they don't want you to touch that, Johnny!" and apologized to the salesperson.
I can tell you from working in store the resin stuff is breakable...............

The sales lady was 100% out of line. I think you handled it the right way.

But parents need to watch their kids in stores esspecially in stores that have things that break. Even if they have insurance it still comes out of their pocket. It can mean bonuses. For me that was important. I lost bonuses (despritely needed money) because parents didn't watch their children and the child got hurt. In one company I worked at when a customer got injured it automaticly cost the company 25,000 in legal and insurance fees As a customer you should be respectful to the businesses as much as they respect you. This helps keep cost low.
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#53 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 03:15 AM
 
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i would have grabbed her hand an pulled my child's out then said just as you did

!!!!!!! it would be VERY different if should would have said something like "sweaty could you please not touch that it can break" or " i know that looks cool but please be careful"

above all.... she should have taken her frustration up with YOU and only YOU!!! if she had an issue with you parenting style the she should have said something (again) to YOU! if she did not want your DS touching anything she should have said something to (you guessed it) YOU!!!

to all the ones saying that or this is over board... what if she was holding her DC and bumped the same trinket with her diaper bag... i bet it would have been a TOTALLY different reaction!!! it probably would have been a "oh its ok" or "oh mama dont worry about it you have you hands full!"

you should NEVER, EVER, NEVER scold in that fashion with someone elses child!!! i dont care if you in a store that the stuff cost a million dollars! you take it up with the parents!!!!

im glad company X is taking this seriously!

i think you handled it very well! i too have been in the retail world i would have NEVER acted as she did and i have had MUCH worse happen in my store.

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#54 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 10:22 AM
 
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What are you saying? Call the police b/c the mama bear in yourself might come out and you might hurt someone?? Yeah, that's a good idea. Or just don't hurt someone if they touch your child's hand, how 'bout that?
I'm saying that anyone, even an observer to the situation, could feel the need to involve the authorities, and this is a reasonable action to take when anyone sees a potential for violence. If there is no need and no way to berate a stranger over a thought they could have, there is no need to berate Jokerama, over a thought she actually had in a stressful moment which could've gone either way. Suppose the salesperson held onto the child's wrist 2, 3, or 4 seconds longer, then how many people, even observers to the situation, would have called the police or felt a greater need to personally defend the child??? My point is that these things can escalate or de-escalate within seconds and the onus of determining the full outcome so that it satisfies the tastes of every person in the world is not, and cannot, fall completely on the mama in this situation.
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#55 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 12:54 PM
 
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I can tell you from working in store the resin stuff is breakable...............

The sales lady was 100% out of line. I think you handled it the right way.

But parents need to watch their kids in stores esspecially in stores that have things that break. Even if they have insurance it still comes out of their pocket. It can mean bonuses. For me that was important. I lost bonuses (despritely needed money) because parents didn't watch their children and the child got hurt. In one company I worked at when a customer got injured it automaticly cost the company 25,000 in legal and insurance fees As a customer you should be respectful to the businesses as much as they respect you. This helps keep cost low.


While I do not know the whole story, and just basing on what you just posted, I do not understand how the negligence of some parents warrants that kind of settlement. Why aren't the parents held liable?
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#56 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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And I've worked in stores where breakage comes out of the pockets of the salespeople on duty. Not fun when it wasn't your fault.

The store I manage now has a lot of dangerous stuff in it. We try to place knives, etc out of reach, but you'll always get the odd bugger who climbs the shelves to get something - even with a parent right there "supervising". I have said something to such parents and kids. And when I've found the kid roaming the store alone while Mom or Dad shops, I've taken them by the hand (or lifted them off the shelving) and back to the parent with an appropriate warning to the parent. I have also scooped up a kid running up and down the aisles and returned to the parent. Sorry - sometimes one has to touch the kid.
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#57 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 02:34 PM
 
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I had a salesperson yell at my then 3.5 year old dd for pretty much the exact same reasons, similar circumstances, as you, jokerama. I am impressed you contacted corp. This store is owned by the woman in question so I just tell all my friends what a bi__h she is and why and none of us shop there. She made my dd cry for playing with a toy on display that I was considering buying and I was standing 2 feet away! How dare these people treat kids this way. What are they so worried about? If the item got broken, they could make us pay for it. There is no call to treat kids this way. Especially, in my case, in a children's store!!::
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#58 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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I used to work at bath and body works as well. Do you know how often employees break candles and candle holders? Do you know how often adults knock things over and break things?

This woman would have never ran over to an adult and grabbed their hand and waved a finger in their face. Even if they were about to knock something over.

You do not touch, or yell, or point at another persons child. I do not do any of this with my own child. I was out to lunch one time and a friend yelled at my dd. I said to her, "uh, don't talk to her that way. I dont talk to you that way". But I would be lying if I said my blood didnt boil instantly and if I said the urge to leap across the table wasnt there.

Not that violence is the answerr. But adrenaline is real.

I was just a store yesterday and dd was looking at all the little glass containers and picking some up and opening them and "ooohing and awwwing" at them. She was careful. She is always careful and understand what "breakable" means. Had she dropped something, I would have paid for it.

If a sales woman would have intervened and grabbed her hand? I would have had a few choice words myself. But of course, this particular store is wonderful and that would never happen.

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#59 of 60 Old 11-04-2007, 05:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lovebug View Post
i would have grabbed her hand an pulled my child's out then said just as you did

!!!!!!! it would be VERY different if should would have said something like "sweaty could you please not touch that it can break" or " i know that looks cool but please be careful"



to all the ones saying that or this is over board... what if she was holding her DC and bumped the same trinket with her diaper bag... i bet it would have been a TOTALLY different reaction!!! it probably would have been a "oh its ok" or "oh mama dont worry about it you have you hands full!"

you should NEVER, EVER, NEVER scold in that fashion with someone elses child!!! i dont care if you in a store that the stuff cost a million dollars! you take it up with the parents!!!!

im glad company X is taking this seriously!

i think you handled it very well! i too have been in the retail world i would have NEVER acted as she did and i have had MUCH worse happen in my store.
Exactly. The child is merely that, a child. If the salesperson had a problem she should have addressed it with you.
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#60 of 60 Old 11-12-2007, 12:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by inchijen View Post
This woman would have never ran over to an adult and grabbed their hand and waved a finger in their face. Even if they were about to knock something over..

:

Would people say you were over reacting if the employee had forcefully grabbed the wrist of an adult and shook her finger in the adults face while reprimanding them for touching something. No. Mall security would have been called and then the police. You don't do that to any person.

If there was a problem with the child touching the candleholder the sales lady should tell you.

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