S/O: Anon poll about your kids being gay - Page 8 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: How would you feel if your kids grow up to be gay?
Thrilled--more gay is more better. 49 6.26%
Nonplussed--as long as they're happy, I'm good. 492 62.84%
Okay--I'd rather they were straight, but whatever. 132 16.86%
Disappointed--I think being gay is wrong and I don't want that for my kids. 82 10.47%
Angry--I'm so appalled by considering it that I can't imagine what I'd feel. 4 0.51%
Other, please explain 24 3.07%
Voters: 783. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-05-2008, 10:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Einley View Post
As this goes OT, it is getting even more upsetting to me than it even has been.

I do. not. get. it.

I do not get caring about the sexuality of our children.
I do not get wanting grandchildren.
I do not get not loving a human being because they did not come from your womb.

I feel like I'm on another planet.

I will love my children regardless of who they love.
I will love my children whether they have children or not.
I will love any child regardless of whose womb carried them.

I'm like : I don't know what to say...
I'm sorry about you getting upset but I'm not sure what you are reading because nobody's ever said about not loving adopted kids.
What I am saying is that I think that I would not love them the same as my own. It's not an all or nothing. Do you love all other human beings on this earth equally?
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Old 02-06-2008, 04:39 AM
 
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It really pains me to see all these responses about the horrible life that gay people have to endure. Anyone can have a life of pain, not just gay people. Being gay does not make someone's life worse.
: Take it from me, being a lesbian makes me happy! The only frustration I can think of is not being allowed to legally marry my partner (well, that and feeling dismayed by the disturbing presence of homophobia on MDC). But my sweetie and I are creating a family anyways, which makes us happy.

Saying that you don't want your child to be gay because his life will be harder seems the same as saying you don't want to have any daughters, just sons, because females in general are paid less, respected less, raped more often, and suffer from a lack of equality with males. Most of the pain and difficulty that I've experienced in life has been due to being born female, so maybe we should all only want male children.

If that analogy doesn't speak to you, try one of the following:

Should we only want white children because children of color might suffer more in life? What about rich vs. poor children, able-bodied vs. disabled children?

We are all different yet still human. Let's make room for everybody to be themselves.
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Old 02-06-2008, 04:55 AM
 
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If you look at the statistical evidence regarding violent crime, particularly domestic violence, it's overwhelmingly men who do the violence. And that doesn't begin to get in to how women who partner with men are statistically more likely to have negative feelings about their bodies, do more than their fair share of housework, etc.
: I feminists! Perhaps the people who took issue with the truths that avengingophelia speaks missed the word "statistically"? We're talking statistics here, people, general trends. Before the accusations of "man-hater" start flying, let me just say that I think some men are exceptionally wonderful, beautiful people, and I know there are crappy, evil, nasty people who happen to be female. This truth does not change the truth of the statistics that show an overwhelming trend of male violence against females.

avengingophelia, your excellent statistics bear re-posting: http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:18 PM
 
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Yep, I really don't think it is for me. As much as I love my nieces and nephew, I cannot even say that my love for them comes close to how I love my own child.
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I'm sorry about you getting upset but I'm not sure what you are reading because nobody's ever said about not loving adopted kids.
What I am saying is that I think that I would not love them the same as my own. It's not an all or nothing. Do you love all other human beings on this earth equally?
Adopting a child is NOTHING like having a niece and nephew. Your niece and nephew have parents who are their primary caregivers. When you adopt a child, you take him into your home AS one of your children. You BECOME their parent. My mind is actually reeling from this a little b/c I don't see how you can possibly compare the love you have for other people's children who are being raised by those other people to the love adoptive parents feel for THEIR children (yes, they are "theirs", even though they don't share genetic material). When you marry, you choose to make someone who is not related by blood part of your family. Do you love your partner? Do you love him less b/c he doesn't share your genetic material?

I think what's getting some people's hackles up on this thread is the undercurrent (not stated explicitly by anyone, and I'm not singling you out) that MDC mamas would love their biological grandchildren MORE than adoptive ones. Imagine how that feels to anyone on this thread who is either adopted themselves or has adopted a child.

Now personally, I don't understand the "as long as I have grandkids" mentality in general, so that tells you where I'm coming from--I simply can't see how it is my place to judge my child on the basis of whether or not she wants to reproduce. It is not her job to provide grandchildren for me. I don't have expectations for the particulars of dd's adult life. My job as a mother, I think, is to raise a child who is capable of making the decisions that make HER happy and healthy, not one who makes the decisions that I would make.

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Originally Posted by rayo de sol View Post
Should we only want white children because children of color might suffer more in life? What about rich vs. poor children, able-bodied vs. disabled children?

We are all different yet still human. Let's make room for everybody to be themselves.
Exactly.
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Old 02-06-2008, 01:45 PM
 
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...Imagine how that feels to anyone on this thread who is either adopted themselves or has adopted a child.
...
I am adopted myself, and I'm torn about it. It saddens me that there exists what I consider to be such a huge misunderstanding about adoption and the bond between adopted children and their parents. Yet I'll grant that, as a few posters have pointed out, those who feel that they love their 'own' more have not chosen to adopt.

But then the subject of grandchildren comes up and the decision to adopt or not is out of the grandparents' hands; and would parents who chose not to adopt for themselves then not love and bond with adopted grandchildren [in the same way as biological grandchildren]? How sad. I hope and believe that thrust into that situation, grandparents would find the situation enlightening and find that 'own' does not equal 'biological'.

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It really pains me to see all these responses about the horrible life that gay people have to endure. Anyone can have a life of pain, not just gay people. Being gay does not make someone's life worse.
On the original topic, this pains me, too. I just posted to another thread: it is true that homophobia (and racism and misogyny) and hate and bigotry in all forms exist in the world. But I believe and I have found that people who love and accept themselves can and do find love and acceptance in the world at large. To me, being disappointed that my child might face others' ignorance (and she inevitably will in multiple forms no matter what) in a way perpetuates the bigotry.
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Old 02-06-2008, 03:32 PM
 
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I'm sorry about you getting upset but I'm not sure what you are reading because nobody's ever said about not loving adopted kids.
What I am saying is that I think that I would not love them the same as my own. It's not an all or nothing. Do you love all other human beings on this earth equally?
I love all of my children equally.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:13 PM
 
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When you marry, you choose to make someone who is not related by blood part of your family. Do you love your partner? Do you love him less b/c he doesn't share your genetic material?
That's a very good point. Gives me something to think about...

Quote:
I think what's getting some people's hackles up on this thread is the undercurrent (not stated explicitly by anyone, and I'm not singling you out) that MDC mamas would love their biological grandchildren MORE than adoptive ones.
I guess I have to be with you on this. Because anybody that my child loves and is important to him/her, I would have to love (genetically-related or not). However, is it not possible to *wish* for bio grandkids at the same time? Pretty much like if one has all grandsons and would wish or desire for a granddaughter?

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My job as a mother, I think, is to raise a child who is capable of making the decisions that make HER happy and healthy, not one who makes the decisions that I would make.
That's very true but again is it at all possible to not have a bit of emotional investment in the important decisions that your child makes? And again, being "disappointed" in a decision that your child makes doesn't mean that you don't accept your child anymore. Nor does it mean that you don't respect your child's decision or love your child any less. It's just a disagreement between philosophies/opinions.
Say, IF I wanted grandkids and my child opts not to have any children (for whatever reason), is it not ok to be disappointed? It doesn't mean that I'd create a big stink about it or condemn my child for it.
And this could apply to anything... career paths, partners, sexuality, etc. Just because you have different opinions/preferences with your child about those things, doesn't mean you respect/love them less.

Sorry again to the OP for digressing from the topic. And I really appreciate your replies because it gives me things to reflect upon. Thank you for your investing your energies and input on this.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:04 PM
 
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That's very true but again is it at all possible to not have a bit of emotional investment in the important decisions that your child makes? And again, being "disappointed" in a decision that your child makes doesn't mean that you don't accept your child anymore. Nor does it mean that you don't respect your child's decision or love your child any less. It's just a disagreement between philosophies/opinions.
Say, IF I wanted grandkids and my child opts not to have any children (for whatever reason), is it not ok to be disappointed? It doesn't mean that I'd create a big stink about it or condemn my child for it.
And this could apply to anything... career paths, partners, sexuality, etc. Just because you have different opinions/preferences with your child about those things, doesn't mean you respect/love them less.

Sorry again to the OP for digressing from the topic. And I really appreciate your replies because it gives me things to reflect upon. Thank you for your investing your energies and input on this.
I think your point is fair, but I wonder what is to be gained from having expectations as to the PARTICULAR choices your child makes. That is, I can certainly see being sad if your child makes a choice that makes him/her sad or sick, or being happy if s/he makes a choice that makes him/her happy. But expecting certain external thing? Kids, a specific career or school or partner or whatever? Well, I guess I think the lines between expectation and pressure, between disappointment and judgment are very thin indeed.

My mom is a person who would "accept and love her children no matter what." I believe that. I also know that she has always had VERY clear ideas of what her children's lives should look like. Although she never said anything directly to me in high school, it was crystal clear that my sexual orientation (which I never spoke with her about explicitly), my feminism, my general crunchiness were hugely "disappointing" to her, because they were not what she expected of me. Did she love me? Yes. Did she ultimately "accept" my choices (the ones she knew about)? Yes. Did the weight of her disappointment cause tremendous damage to our relationship that caused years to repair, even though she never expressed her disappointment openly. Absolutely. Yes.

Dh's parents expected him to make a lot of money and live close to home. We moved a few hours away and we get comments all the time (indirect) about how little they see dd, etc. (they see her once a month). He's currently in a very well-paying job, but he's miserable. He is planning on leaving for something far less lucrative (but which will make him much happier) in a couple of years. Do his parents say, "No, you can't switch careers." Of course not. But their tacit disappointment makes him feel like crap, particularly because their expectations have nothing to do with his happiness...and so he feels like they are invested not in his well being, but in a set of external things that would make him the kind of son they expected.

Because dh and I are both high achievers (straight A students, Ivy League college, advanced degrees) our families make jokes about dd being so smart, going to our college, being baby Einstein, etc. I don't make such jokes, and I refuse to pigeon-hole my dd with MY expectations. What can I gain? If she IS academically gifted, she would simply be doing exactly what was expected of her (what's special about that?) and if she isn't, she'd just be a "disappointment". I honestly DON'T have preferences. I don't care if she goes to an Ivy League college, or a community college, or no college at all. I don't care if her partner is male or female, black or white, our religion or some other religion--or if she decides she never wants to "pair off." I don't care if she has children or not, so long as she is content with her choice. I DO care that she chooses a life path that she finds fulfilling and makes her happy, but that is a very different thing.

Your children pick up on your expectations and your disappointment, whether or not these things are voiced and explicit. If having children would not make your child happy, why on earth would you want him to have a child?
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:45 PM
 
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grumpybear, I appreciate your taking the time to further explain your thoughts -- thank you!

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Old 02-07-2008, 01:55 AM
 
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I do. not. get. it.
I do not get caring about the sexuality of our children.
I will love my children regardless of who they love.
To be honest, I have only read snippets from this thread, but I wanted to point out that just because a person is less than thrilled with who one's child becomes or the choices that one's child makes does not ipso facto mean that the parent loves his/her children any less than other parents who feel differently. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I would be disappointed if my child felt she was homosexual simply because this way of living is incongruent with our religious beliefs, but I would love her no less after that revelation than before. Actually, to taper that remark, I would be disappointed if she chose to act upon her homosexual inclinations. I do believe that homosexuality is in most cases (if not all) genetic, but that still does not make it an acceptable way of living to me. It is the action to me that puts it into the realms of morality, not the inclination. I can totally understand that if one views sexuality as amoral (meaning separated from moral judgments) then it would be bewildering to comprehend why any parent would care.

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Old 02-07-2008, 02:54 AM
 
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I should have chosen other...at first I would be disappointed because I do not mind gay people at all its just that I do not want my daughter to be gay. In the end I would be happy for what ever she chooses it would just take time.
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:15 AM
 
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grumpybear, I appreciate your taking the time to further explain your thoughts -- thank you!

Thanks to you too as well as everyone else for sharing their views/opinions/feelings on the subject and everything else that was/is being discussed.
I am especially grateful that we are having this with open minds and without flaring tempers despite the passionate discussion.
Thank you to the OP as well for opening this up. This really is an eye-opener for me in more ways than one.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:47 AM
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this really is a genuine curiosity of mine. what does it mean to say that being gay is ok but you would not want your children to be gay? lord knows i've have my biases so as long as someone isn't spouting hate i really can't say i come out much better if we were to tally up our flaws and shortsightedness. i just don't quite understand what that feeling is about.

my husband and i are both bi. i think it's kind of strange to think too much about who my 4yo will sleep with in 15 years and the 4mo is still in the larval stage. i can't think much past the fact that one day they'll be all hairy and taller than i am . maybe once i process that i'll be able to think beyond it.

i think i would be thrilled if they both had an easier time than i did finding people who would treat them well.

about the abuse thing, i really do believe the strong statistical evidence we have makes good predictions about who is committing acts of PHYSICAL abuse. however, in my long experience with fellow psych patients and a year living in a shelter, i have to say that most of the women who were there and had been abused were physically abused by men and severely emotionally abused by women. that kind of thing is much harder to measure and track with statistics.

as long as my kids learn how to find a good partner and can be discrete and responsible about their expiramentation while living with me i'm cool.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:21 AM
 
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I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I agree with Einley's views so I'll reply:

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What I am saying is that I think that I would not love them the same as my own. It's not an all or nothing. Do you love all other human beings on this earth equally?
No, I don't love all human beings equally. What I don't get is not loving all your children/grandchildren equally, regardless of how they came to this world. It's like some people on this thread are saying they'd love an adopted grandchild less, and that's disturbing. Perhaps that's not what they meant, but it sounds a lot like it.
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Old 02-07-2008, 11:01 AM
 
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To be honest, I have only read snippets from this thread, but I wanted to point out that just because a person is less than thrilled with who one's child becomes or the choices that one's child makes does not ipso facto mean that the parent loves his/her children any less than other parents who feel differently.
Thank you!
Our faith prohibits certain behaviors. It's not a matter of love or hate. I will love my children always, no matter what they do. I voted other, because I don't know how to describe how I would feel. Certainly not thrilled, but neither disappointed in them as a person, no matter what they do that I don't agree with.
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:49 PM
 
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I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I agree with Einley's views so I'll reply:



No, I don't love all human beings equally. What I don't get is not loving all your children/grandchildren equally, regardless of how they came to this world. It's like some people on this thread are saying they'd love an adopted grandchild less, and that's disturbing. Perhaps that's not what they meant, but it sounds a lot like it.

I was one who said I wanted a Grand child. I personally want my step dd to have a child first. (because she's older) I don't care how they get here, as long as they are mine. Ya know?

I don't think anyone cares if they are adopted, or step grandkids, or what kind of grandchild. Most people would be as thrilled with an adopted child as they would with a biological grandchild.

Although, I Do know a few grandmothers who don't accept the stepgrandchild as their own and do not even buy them Christmas or Birthday gifts. But, as far as I am concerned, those women aren't worthy of the child they are ignoring. It's not great loss to the child.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:51 PM
 
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Why does wanting bio-grandkids translate to not loving adopted-grandkids? If I had been able to produce a small flock of 5 or 6 kids no problem it wouldn't matter at all if one was gay and decided to adopt and another decided to become a priest and remain celebate. I would still have 3 or 4 other children who would have biograndkids. The adopted-grandkids would be loved and cherished as would any sons and daughters in law.

However it wasn't that easy I have my one miracle baby and there is a good chance I won't be able to have another, so he's it. If he decides that as a gay man he wants to adopt instead of going to the trouble of finding a nice lesbian couple who wish to share parental duties with him then I would be disappionted. Being disappointed doesn't mean not loving my adopted-grandkids.

BTW: DH and I wanted a girl, but we still love DS more than anything else in the whole wid world.

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Old 02-07-2008, 08:18 PM
 
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Why does wanting bio-grandkids translate to not loving adopted-grandkids?
The poster said that a genetic relationship was important to her, as she doesnt feel about other people's kids (like neighbor children, or a niece or nephew) as she does her own. This lead me to believe that she would then feel *differently* about non-genetically related (adopted) grandchildren than bio grandchildren. I think that would be a major bummer for those grandkids. It happens all the time....i've heard adoptive parents talk about how some family members consider the bio grandkids "real" family, and adopted second best.

Personally, i think if one has those feelings, they shouldnt just "accept" them as ok, they should work through them. There is potential, if one has these feelings and ends up with adopted people in their family, that there will be lots of hurt feelings, no matter how unintentional. Why is that ok? Why isnt that an issue to resolve, rather than accept?

I guess as someone who has always wanted to adopt (totally independant from any desire to birth children), and who has one bio child and an adopted child hopefully on the way, i really can't wrap my mind around *why* a *grandparent* would care whether the child was genetically related. Its a foreign concept to me. I think i'd be pretty upset and probably a little pissed if my mother thought of my current child as fufilling a wish of hers, and the adopted child as........not.

To bring this back to the issue of having a gay child...i also don't get envisioning what your child's grown up life will be like, or having expectations (other than wanting them to be happy, productive, kind, etc)....maybe its because of the way i was raised. I was raised to believe that my life was my own, my choices were my own, and that they were neither a reflection of the wishes of my parent, nor really had anything to do with them at all. We were 100 percent accepted and supported in our choices, no matter what they were (obviously anything illegal or harmful wouldnt be encouraged.) Both my sister and i had babies as unmarried 23 yr olds...it was *never* an issue. Maybe our parents were disappointed, i dont know. It just seems bizarre to me to care who your kid hooks up with as an adult, whether they have kids, etc. I guess i'd like to be a grandma, but my child is only 11...i have plenty of time to think about that.

I'm not sure you (general you)can be 100 percent A-ok with being gay, but then be "disappointed" by it. I dont see how its much different from saying "Oh, i dont have any problem with [insert whatever race here] people, but i wouldnt want my daughter to marry one. Because the children will face such discrimination yknow..." I think it hints at a deeper issue, a deeper prejudice.

Lots of people choose not to have kids, or can't have them, or have them and they die. I really dont know what it has to do with being gay (that is, why someone would immediately jump to, i'd be disappointed my child was gay because they wouldnt have kids.)

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Old 02-07-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eepster View Post
Why does wanting bio-grandkids translate to not loving adopted-grandkids?.
Also....i think these quotes may have led some of us to the conclusion above:

Quote:
In my head, I feel that I won't be able to love another kid as much as I love my bio kids.
and then:

Quote:
As much as I love my nieces and nephew, I cannot even say that my love for them comes close to how I love my own child.
and:

Quote:
I'm sorry about you getting upset but I'm not sure what you are reading because nobody's ever said about not loving adopted kids.
What I am saying is that I think that I would not love them the same as my own.

While i think most of us are capable of "loving" (being affectionate with, being kind to, enjoying the company of)just about any child we spend time with...those quotes (and others like them) lead me to believe that there would be some issues with being able to muster up the same kind/amount of love for a non-genetically related grandchild. Hope i'm wrong.


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Old 02-08-2008, 07:09 PM
 
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I didn't read all of the responses but I'm shocked at how many people voted dissapointed and angry. I would not mind if my son were gay, but I would be worried about how others would treat him. I think it is truly sad that people in this world are treated differently because of their sexuality. It breaks my heart. I would not be at all surprised if my son IS gay and I would hate to shame him into pretending he were not gay just to be accepted by the masses. I want him to be comfortable being whomever it is that he is on the inside and I will support him 100%.

I wish everyone else felt the same way. Being gay is not a choice. If it were why do you think people would choose such a hard and often socially unaccepted path for themselves? OK, I am getting off my soapbox now.

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