Ma'am, would you please put out your ciggerette? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2008, 07:14 PM
 
hhurd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
She asked. The other woman refused. It's not a big deal. Just because a stranger asks something of me doesn't mean I have to oblige. I don't even think it's all that rude to say that it's legal to smoke in the park. Even if the smoker said it with a snotty tone, so what? She also has the right to be rude. I find it odd that people can ask something and expect others to respond just as they want them to. I don't think the OP or the smoker did anything wrong; they just happen to disagree about the propriety of smoking in a park.
I agree. I think smoking is nasty, but it's up to me to keep my family away from it in places where smoking is allowed. Public playgrounds are...public.
hhurd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-04-2008, 07:25 PM
 
Marcee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the wilds of Washington
Posts: 1,383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Luckily in our area you cannot smoke with in 25 feet of a public entrance or with in 25 feet of a designated children's play area. And you also cannot smoke in any public buildings, including bars or taverns.
Marcee is offline  
Old 02-04-2008, 10:58 PM
 
North_Of_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
Posts: 7,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demeter9 View Post
I am sure that some of you actually believe that it is a survival of the fittest thing too, where you are doing us all a favour by killing off the weak people. Or that all the "weak" should stay home.
You can't be serious.

Frankenstein never scared me. Marsupials do. Because they're FAST.
North_Of_60 is offline  
Old 02-05-2008, 04:18 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
I'm really surprised that people think their kids are in grave danger from a few minutes of indirect exposure to cigarette smoke in an outdoor area.
For kids with asthma or reactive airway disease, it can be grave danger. And even if it's not "grave danger," who really wants their kid to breathe any amount of second-hand smoke?

I don't really buy the "It's a public place, if you don't like someone's smoke, move." Nonsmokers have just as much right as smokers to be in public places, and to me, it's a no-brainer that the person who bears the most responsibility in this situation is the one who is doing something that could potentially harm others.

Quote:
militant non-smokers
Eh? That's like saying "militant anti-drunk-drivers." I mean, come on ... you're doing something that dangerous to you, dangerous to other ... of COURSE there will be people who are opposed to it. And rightfully so, imho.

dm
dharmamama is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 07:25 AM
 
Sierra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_Of_60 View Post
I have a MUCH bigger problem with this then smoking in an open park, especially if it is the only entrance/exit. Most of the time there is an over hang too (which is what attracts smokers, they can smoke in the rain and not get wet) so it traps the smoke in that area.
Ah, not only that, but buildings have air intake systems...as in the buildings have to "breathe." Air intake often occurs in places exactly like these entry ways.

I have just begun working in a new church, and two of the staff smoke several times each day outside the entry way upstairs from my office. There is a huge, heavy steel "fire door" between my office and that staircase. Yet, there are times when I am in a meeting in my office, with both the door to my office and the door to the stairway completely closed, and all of the sudden, everyone starts to smell smoke. Why should we be subjected to that? It gives me a headache, and when my ds is with me, if it lingers too long the wheezing starts and this can be a prelude to an outright awful asthma attack.

Peanut allergies are awful, but most folks do not suffer ill effects from being exposed to peanut oils. In fact, peanuts can be a wonderful, nutritious part of a healthy diet for lots of folks. However, cig smoke is never nutritious, and is harmful to all people whether or not you are like my child for whom it can be deadly.

dm said it very well in her post, including this:

Quote:
For kids with asthma or reactive airway disease, it can be grave danger. And even if it's not "grave danger," who really wants their kid to breathe any amount of second-hand smoke?

I'm pro-adoption reform, but not anti-adoption.
Sierra is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 04:25 PM
 
riebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my dreamz
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaomiMcC View Post
Ya think? She's outside in a public space...while you're at it you might as well ask people driving by the park not to due to the noxious exhaust fumes. Unless there is a "smoke free" sign or bylaw in place there's nothing you can really do...so don't be surprised at her reaction.

Honestly, if you don't want your dd to be exposed to this ladies cigarette either a) move to another piece of playground equipment or b) go to another park.

I'm not a smoker btw...
that's what I was thinking

I can't control what other people do, just my reaction to it. When my kidlets were younger and I didn't want them exposed to the smoke, I moved- I didn't ask others to stop. but that's me, I'm weird that way.
riebee is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 05:05 PM
 
queenjane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I wrote a reply to this hours ago and the computer ate it. I'll try again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
I have just begun working in a new church, and two of the staff smoke several times each day outside the entry way upstairs from my office. There is a huge, heavy steel "fire door" between my office and that staircase. Yet, there are times when I am in a meeting in my office, with both the door to my office and the door to the stairway completely closed, and all of the sudden, everyone starts to smell smoke. Why should we be subjected to that? It gives me a headache, and when my ds is with me, if it lingers too long the wheezing starts and this can be a prelude to an outright awful asthma attack.
Have you talked to the staff members? Approached them nicely and explain that the cig smoke is bugging you? They probably have no idea that it reaches your office. I've personally found that smokers are pretty amenable to moving or putting out a cig. if they know i'm bothered, and esp if i ask politely and dont try to make it into a moral issue. Your experience may vary of course. I think a big reason why there are always crowds of smokers around doors outside is that there is no place to smoke *inside* (due to anti-smoking regulations), and these people can't stray far because they have to get back to work. Dont know what the solution to that is, other than forcing everyone to quit.

Quote:
Peanut allergies are awful, but most folks do not suffer ill effects from being exposed to peanut oils. In fact, peanuts can be a wonderful, nutritious part of a healthy diet for lots of folks. However, cig smoke is never nutritious, and is harmful to all people whether or not you are like my child for whom it can be deadly.
My point about peanuts was not how dangerous it is or isnt for your child. My point was that as soon as you leave your house, you are no longer in control of what other people do. Its a risk. It sucks, but thats reality. And if smoking in a certain place is NOT illegal (some places it is, some it isnt), then you risk being around smoke. You can choose to ask the person to put it out, they can comply or not. You can choose to move to a different area of the park. But the smoker doesnt *have* to comply just because you want them to. I think they should, and most smokers i've ever been in contact with would be happy to move away from your child, or sit in a way that smoke isnt going right to your child....but if they choose not to, unfortunately, thats an issue you'd have to deal with at the time and decide whether you need to leave or stay and expose your child.

Its not like the OP was in a crowded elevator with a smoker, or in a place she "had" to be, like work. She was in an open air park. Is it "unfair" that her child would have to move to a different piece of equiptment because of a smoker, yeah i guess so. But its not really an issue *I* would choose to get into a confrontation w/ a stranger over.

I guess the thing that bothers me (i'm a nonsmoker btw), is the overall tone conversations about smoking take...like its a moral issue, those horrible smokers who dont care if they are killing those around them. My sister smokes. I hate that she smokes, because i know it is destroying her health, doesnt help her kid's breathing issues any, she spends TONS of money on cigs., and i end up smelling like smoke if i spend even a few minutes in her car or home (she only smokes in the enclosed sunroom, not her main house anymore, now that she has moved to a newer house)....but i *know* that it is an ADDICTION, one that is VERY VERY difficult to kick. She smoked for like 30 years, then had a health scare and was able to quit (was in the hosp. for several days which helped)...she quit for a whole YEAR....then the addiction sucked her back in and she smokes more than ever before. Its sad. But it doesnt make her a bad person.

Katherine

Katherine, single homeschooling mom to Boy Genius (17) geek.gif  Thing One (6) and Thing Two (6) fencing.gif and one outgoing Girl (12) bikenew.gif and hoping for more through foster care and adoption homebirth.jpgadoptionheart-1.gif 
queenjane is online now  
Old 02-06-2008, 05:49 PM
 
limabean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
I guess the thing that bothers me (i'm a nonsmoker btw), is the overall tone conversations about smoking take...like its a moral issue, those horrible smokers who dont care if they are killing those around them. My sister smokes...Its sad. But it doesnt make her a bad person.
I agree, and I don’t love the smokers in my family any less as a result of their habit. But OTOH, none of the smokers I know would smoke mere feet from a children’s sandbox. I think it’s okay to judge that particular behavior as rude -– the fact that this woman is suffering from an addiction doesn’t absolve her of all responsibility to be considerate of others, IMO. Was what she did illegal? No. But was it rude and thoughtless? Yes, and the smokers I know are still capable of being thoughtful, kind people –- their addiction hasn’t removed their ability to care for others.

DH+Me 1994 heartbeat.gif DS 2004 heartbeat.gif DD 2008 heartbeat.gif DDog 2014
limabean is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 06:21 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
like its a moral issue
When smokers are smoking in a place where their smoke endangers anyone other than themselves, to me it is a moral issue. What is a moral issue, anyway, if it's not an issue of how our actions affect others?

dm
dharmamama is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 06:33 PM
 
bigeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hawaii
Posts: 7,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
But there's the problem. Many of us agree it's not right, but there's always someone who thinks it isn't our right to tell them not to do it.

See donating MIC toys, wearing too much cologne, alternative medicine, insert your hot button topic here.

I think it's immoral to do anything that might possibly harm someone else, such as smoking on a playground, choking someone else with what I consider toxic scented products, or donating something you think might not be safe for your family, but many don't agree.

We don't get to tell other people how to gauge their own morality, yk? We can think whatever we like, and we can speak out about our point of view, but the bottom line is, people are going to do whatever they please, unfortunately.

All you can do is keep trying.

for intuitive readings click here :
bigeyes is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 06:41 PM
 
LionTigerBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,455
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think that cigarette smoke can be equated to exhaust fumes. I think it's much much worse.

When my son was a baby and toddler, he was very allergic to cigarette smoke. If the person behind us in a fast-food drive through was smoking, and a whiff of it got over to our car, he would break out in red rashes on his cheeks-- bright red excema-like splotches-- within minutes. Worse encounters would cause breakouts so bad that his cheeks would peel and get bloody.

He has since grown out of having such a severe reaction, but I still hate cigarette smoke, and I still won't let him anywhere near it if I can help it.

We live in the city and the thing I hate the most is when people smoke on the sidewalk outside our apartment building. We've actually had to "flee" our apartment before because the fumes can be just intolerable. They give me migraines, too. Uggh.

I'm actually kind of in favor of having smoking be made illegal. : Too bad it won't happen. *sigh*

♥ blogger astrologer mom to three cool kiddos, and trying to figure out this divorce thing-- Blossom and Glow ♥

LionTigerBear is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 07:01 PM
 
dharmamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bywater, West Farthing
Posts: 4,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
We don't get to tell other people how to gauge their own morality, yk?
Well, we can call a spade a spade, right?

dm
dharmamama is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 08:07 PM
 
bigeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hawaii
Posts: 7,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama View Post
Well, we can call a spade a spade, right?

dm
you betcha!

for intuitive readings click here :
bigeyes is offline  
Old 02-06-2008, 08:10 PM
 
artgoddess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Suburban hell
Posts: 12,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Y'all are overreacting. You're acting like second hand smoke causes *cancer* or something.
artgoddess is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 04:26 PM
 
ZARAMAMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On a new journey
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Before having kids, I didn't realize how bothersome my smoking was. But, if confronted, I would have moved.
ZARAMAMA is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paradise
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I dont know if I realized it until I quit smoking. When I was smoking, it had such a hold on me that I couldnt possibly see clearly.

I guess I should have realized that before confronting the woman.

I know what its like to be an addict.
transformed is offline  
Old 02-07-2008, 10:46 PM
 
mrspineau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IMO, if you go into a public place you have to be prepared for things to happen that often happen in public. I do think that it is awful that someone would smoke not only around a child, but in front of a child, but that is her choice and her right.

There was a thread on the GD board recently about making a comment to someone slapping their child's hand in public. Really I'm not sure that this is so different. Yes I personally think it is terrible, but at the same time there is no law being broken so who am I to do or say anything?

It would be nice if cigarettes and CP were illegal, and maybe someday they will be, but until then, its just something that is going to be a part of society.
mrspineau is offline  
Old 02-08-2008, 04:05 AM
 
bluetoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have one of those kids that is bothered by smoke, even if it's outside or 'third hand' (on a persons clothes/hair, the one time he had a full blown asthma attack was from this). Having said that it's my duty to protect him from exposure to this. Is it awfully ignorant to smoke at a sandbox? Sure it is, but maybe the lady is compromising and not smoking with her kids in the car.

I was around smokers as a kid and hated being in the car or otherwise inside with them. So even when I grew up to be a smoker I was overly cautious to keep my habit from affecting others. The only acception I've ever made was when some friends of friends brought their baby into a bar. If you're going to bring a baby into the bar what can you expect?!

I am reformed now but am not a zealot - I know how hard it is to quit.

BTW, the last time we were in the park with our little one we moved out the path of someone smoking.
bluetoes is offline  
Old 02-08-2008, 04:28 AM
Banned
 
MamaLuvsHerBabies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkygranolamama View Post
people smoke at our park all the time. i usually just redirect my kids to an area far away from the person until they are no longer smoking. it's never a big deal for them, because there is ALWAYS something else fun to do at the park. i do think it's disrespectful to smoke around children in any situation. i was one of these kids raised in a car full of smoke with the windows rolled up. it's amazing i'm still living..... with asthma and allergies
I know in California, (not sure if other states are involved or not), that there is a push to make smoking in a car with any child passengers, illegal. FINALLY!!! I've always thought how terrible it was for these innocent little people to be breathing in their parent's smoke while all couped up in a car.
MamaLuvsHerBabies is offline  
Old 02-08-2008, 05:15 AM
 
Sage_SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast, BC
Posts: 2,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
so then we all agree that smoking is unhealthy, but people are free to do whatever they want. We agree that its true that its not illegal to smoke at that park, but it was *somewhat* thoughtless of the woman to smoke right there.

Left or right?
Sage_SS is offline  
Old 02-08-2008, 05:56 AM
 
bigeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hawaii
Posts: 7,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage_SS View Post
so then we all agree that smoking is unhealthy, but people are free to do whatever they want. We agree that its true that its not illegal to smoke at that park, but it was *somewhat* thoughtless of the woman to smoke right there.

Left or right?
correct.

For the most part I've found that there are a lot of things that mean a lot more to me now that I have kids that just didn't occur to me before. It's always possible the woman was just clueless instead of intentionally inconsiderate.

for intuitive readings click here :
bigeyes is offline  
Old 02-09-2008, 06:41 AM
 
Sierra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some of the keys aren´t working on my keyboard, so forgive me if this is difficult to read...

Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
Have you talked to the staff members? Approached them nicely and explain that the cig smoke is bugging you? They probably have no idea that it reaches your office. I've personally found that smokers are pretty amenable to moving or putting out a cig. if they know i'm bothered, and esp if i ask politely and dont try to make it into a moral issue.
Actually, I haven´t. And there is a reason for that. You might recall what I described of my most recent experience in asking folks with whom I actually have a relationship who smoke to make accomodations. I did so in a totally nice way, without making it a moral issue whatsoever, and well, I described what happened. And that was when the health of a little baby was involved...a baby who these people could hear breathing while they were on the phone with dw and dw was in a totally different room from the baby with both doors shut! They heard him struggle to breathe, damnit!! I think that experience has me justifiably freaked out about letting folks who I work with everyday know that the smoke smell is reaching my office.

While you heard this tone in our conversation...
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenjane View Post
like its a moral issue, those horrible smokers who dont care if they are killing those around them.
I was struck by the following tone, which I felt started well before any so called moralistic attitudes came to the forefront...

Quote:
Ya think? She's outside in a public space...while you're at it you might as well ask people driving by the park not to due to the noxious exhaust fumes. Unless there is a "smoke free" sign or bylaw in place there's nothing you can really do...so don't be surprised at her reaction.
That is, the tone of how dare any of us question someone lighting up at the sandbox where children are playing...I mean really, how can we expect to be treated decently after getting in someone´s business like that...We are just asking for it! I mean geesh, why don´t we go ahead and corral our three children, including the nursing babe, and just move the hell away if it bothers us so much. It´s a free damn country and to hell with consideration for others. If it isn´t illegal, even if your kid is severely asthmatic and the smoke does threaten his health, then butt out.



Which came first, the chicken or the egg...

I certainly didn´t have such an attitude about how inconsiderate many smokers can be until I experienced horrendous behavior in response to reasonable non morally based requests. No, it´s not a huge moral issue to me. I don´t sit around worrying about it. But I shouldn´t have to never walk down a public sidewalk in my city because my son happens to have asthma and you know, the burden ought to be on me to keep him away from smoke. That is a moral issue, an ethical issue, and not just a legal question.

Sorry, but dm´s right when she says
Quote:
Nonsmokers have just as much right as smokers to be in public places, and to me, it's a no-brainer that the person who bears the most responsibility in this situation is the one who is doing something that could potentially harm others..



Quote:
I think a big reason why there are always crowds of smokers around doors outside is that there is no place to smoke *inside* (due to anti-smoking regulations), and these people can't stray far because they have to get back to work. Dont know what the solution to that is, other than forcing everyone to quit..
Sorry, I beg to differ on this too. Yes, there is no place to smoke inside, and nor should there be, in my opinion. But that isn´t forcing smokers to smoke around doors where there are overhangs. Smokers could take up the burden of their own addictions and smoke 25 feet from doorways, and enjoy a little sun when it is out and suck it up when it is raining or snowing or windy. 25 won´t likely make them late getting back to work. In fact, I know for certain that the particular folks in question in your exchange with me could take longer breaks if they wanted, if they really wanted to get away from the building. It´s not my addiction, and I shouldn´t have to have the headache for the rest of the day as a price for the addiction of the person who won´t walk 25 feet away from the door to take up the burden of their own addiction. It´s not my son´s addiction, and he doesn´t need to suffer so someone can stay dry to feed their addiction. Nope, no way. He is an innocent child with precious lungs that are working very hard to survive this world.

I know, I know. Addiction is rough. That´s why I am not asking anyone to quit. Just to have some consideration and take responsibility.

But I think the real evidence that the lack of places to smoke indoors is not the issue is that even in places where there are designated smoking areas...as in covered shelters for smokers, you still have people trying to hang out by the doors and get away with smoking there. Even when there is a covered walkway to the smoking area and it is less than fifty feet away...yep, I am talking from experience here at a particular airport where I happen to have to spend a lot of my time. And it doesn´t have to be somebody who has to get back to work. In fact, they can even tell you they are going to be waiting a whole other hour before they have to be anywhere. And believe me, a kind, friendly, non moralistic tone is not going to get these folks to move the fifty damn feet to the designated smoking area, even if you do have your severely asthmatic child with you, along with another child, and both your children have special needs and you are doing your best to keep them with you and keep all six pieces of luggage with you and the two huge toddler car seats and have virtually no mobility and they have one tiny lousy piece of luggage that they are using to sit on instead of the nice benches that cost tax payer dollars to erect so they can have a place to smoke.

Ahem.

So really, what you gave is an excuse for bad behavior. For a lack of respect and care for others. And it is all too common these days. And I simply won´t condone it.



Do I sound harsh and moralistic...yes I do. Yes I do. It´s just been one too many times. I didn´t start out this way.

And in fact, the folks who live near me who are in my life who smoke would be surprised to hear this out of me. Because I don´t go around spouting this stuff you know. But I have very politely asked a smoker to move when I absolutely have had to...obviously not often given what I described at the start of this post...and it seems to me that I get a 50-50 chance of either having hate spewed my way or having a very kind, ammenable, polite response back. And those odds just seem a darn shame. And so here, online, where I am not asking anything of you, I think it is okay for me to speak out against this behavior.

I am not saying anyone is a bad person.

I simply don´t buy that just because something is not illegal, we shouldn´t question it. Lots of things are social not legal contracts made by folks who want to engage in society together, and well, have parks together and stuff like that.

I'm pro-adoption reform, but not anti-adoption.
Sierra is offline  
Old 02-09-2008, 06:21 PM
 
bigeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hawaii
Posts: 7,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
But I shouldn´t have to never walk down a public sidewalk in my city because my son happens to have asthma and you know, the burden ought to be on me to keep him away from smoke. That is a moral issue, an ethical issue, and not just a legal question.

snipped


Do I sound harsh and moralistic...yes I do. Yes I do. It´s just been one too many times. I didn´t start out this way.
Well, see, that's the problem. I have the same exact thing with perfumes. I can't go to a movie, or a restaurant, the grocery store, or any public place without risking a puking migraine that can cause me to miss 1-3 days with my family and 1-3 days of work from a reaction to someone else's selfish desire to douse themselves in a toxic chemical stew that leaves a trail of funk behind even after they leave.

As long as it is legal for people to use toxic products like cigarettes, cosmetics, perfumes and air fresheners, people with sensitivities will be housebound. The difference is, anti-smoking folks have lawmakers on your side and the numbers of smokers are dwindling, while the toxic chemical smells are becoming more popular all the time so the anti-perfume folks are suffering even more.

When you get sick nearly every time you leave the house, you become easily irritated and a bit harsh, yk? People who aren't affected by this stuff really take it for granted that they can go anywhere and do whatever they want without worry. Even people with other handicaps don't get called liars or crazy because of their limitations, but if you are affected by chemicals you are treated like you're making it up for attention, or to get out of stuff, as if anyone would choose to live like this. :

I was always taught that your rights end when they infringe on mine. Cigarettes and perfume in someone else's airspace fall under that category, imo.

for intuitive readings click here :
bigeyes is offline  
Old 02-10-2008, 12:48 AM
 
lula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: currently you mean?
Posts: 1,134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would never ask a smoker to put out a cigarette at the park. I am not worried over the small amount of second hand smoke that my child would inhale. I am much more concerned about other air issues. I would have a problem if they threw the cigarette butt on the ground or used the sandbox to put it out.

If my child was particularly prone to problems with second hand smoke I would say something in hopes that the person smoking would help by steering clear of my child. (and yes I do have a child who is prone to these problems, she gets "itchy breathing" and basically goes insane when she smells smoke. I have never had a person have a problem just staying away from my child while smoking and I have had to ask numerous people on 4 continents) If I run into a person who is a jerk I move on.
lula is offline  
Old 02-10-2008, 01:29 AM
 
captain optimism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Good Ship Lollipop
Posts: 6,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by transformed View Post
I dont know if I realized it until I quit smoking. When I was smoking, it had such a hold on me that I couldnt possibly see clearly.

I guess I should have realized that before confronting the woman.

I know what its like to be an addict.
But it sounds like you were very polite. You know, before smoking was illegal in many public spaces, people used to ask smokers to put out cigarettes. Seriously! It's not rude to ask someone not to smoke in public. The proper response of the smoker is, "I'm sorry, I'll put it out." Sometimes they would say, "Filthy habit"--that was all before the legislation and the evidence that second hand smoke is bad for health.

It's not because you have children, or because smoking is so pernicious to other people--though both of those things should factor into people's decisions about where to act on their unfortunate addictions--but because you asked nicely and it's a public place.

You were right. She was wrong. This other stuff, about how you can't expect people to conform to your values? Well, yeah, okay, but I deplore it that you can't expect people to conform to good etiquette. You can't expect people to QUIT smoking because you ask, but they aren't so overcome with shakes and delirium tremens and what have you that they can't put out ONE cancer stick.

"No, I must smoke this right here by the sandbox!" Gaah.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
captain optimism is offline  
Old 02-10-2008, 10:00 PM
 
Sierra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This post may expose my perseverative tendencies. Please feel free to ignore if you are done with this conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Well, see, that's the problem. I have the same exact thing with perfumes. I can't go to a movie, or a restaurant, the grocery store, or any public place without risking a puking migraine that can cause me to miss 1-3 days with my family and 1-3 days of work from a reaction to someone else's selfish desire to douse themselves in a toxic chemical stew that leaves a trail of funk behind even after they leave.
I agree that this is an issue too. I think public consideration for others includes proper smell/chemical etiquette. In other words, no matter how pleasant you think a smell is, you ought not inflict it on others unecessarily. Especially when it involves chemicals, as many folks have "chemical sensitivites" (actually, all of us...some simply experience more acute effects). Actually, though he doesn't react as strongly to perfumes, air freshners, etc. as he does to cig smoke, my ds does react to these products too. We can't, for example, burn a scented candle near him. And he certainly couldn't have an air freshner in his room.

I have had the good fortune of spending a lot of time in a couple of large public institutions, as well as working in a smaller private one with a cosmetic chemical-free rule. In other words, people were asked not to wear perfume, fragrant hair sprays, etc. I think we will and/or should be seeing more places following suit in the future.

My mother wears scents, and she is a wonderful and beautiful woman who I deeply admire and respect (with some wonderful smelling body oils, etc., as well as ones I find unpleasant), but I personally feel her use of scents is unfortunate.

I think if one feels absolutely naked without a scent, they should at least do everyone the courtesy of wearing a bear, bear minimum. But for goodness sakes, most of us can survive without wearing scents, and we should bear the burden of our own chemical fixations rather than making those more chemically-sensitive folks stay at home (restricted freedom) so the rest of us can have unlimited freedom.

That said, I still don't think this is comparable to cigarette smoke, as the inhalation of cigarette smoke is a known, documented, potent carcinogen for not only users but ALL people who breathe it in, even second hand. There are folks dying even now-- with all the documented health stuff-- of lung cancer all the time, as a result of smoking. My dear grandmother was among them last year. This is not analogous to perfume.

Will a few minutes of smoke here and there give you cancer? Of course not. I haven't argued that here or elsewhere. But it can kill some folks with breathing disorders, including severe asthma (by the way, an obituary was printed in my city's paper this week for a 16 year old who died of an asthma attack...a tragic reminder that this is a deadly disease), and since it is a known carcinogen, why anyone thinks they have a moral right to smoke anywhere it is legal, regardless of who is present, confuses me.

Quote:
When you get sick nearly every time you leave the house, you become easily irritated and a bit harsh, yk? People who aren't affected by this stuff really take it for granted that they can go anywhere and do whatever they want without worry. Even people with other handicaps don't get called liars or crazy because of their limitations, but if you are affected by chemicals you are treated like you're making it up for attention, or to get out of stuff, [I]as if anyone would choose to live like this. :

I'm pro-adoption reform, but not anti-adoption.
Sierra is offline  
Old 02-10-2008, 10:57 PM
 
bigeyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: hawaii
Posts: 7,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
But for goodness sakes, most of us can survive without wearing scents, and we should bear the burden of our own chemical fixations rather than making those more chemically-sensitive folks stay at home (restricted freedom) so the rest of us can have unlimited freedom.
exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
That said, I still don't think this is comparable to cigarette smoke, as the inhalation of cigarette smoke is a known, documented, potent carcinogen for not only users but ALL people who breathe it in, even second hand. There are folks dying even now-- with all the documented health stuff-- of lung cancer all the time, as a result of smoking. My dear grandmother was among them last year. This is not analogous to perfume.
Ah, but it is. The chemicals in perfumes are toxic, and it is documented.


The difference is, the perfume industry is not required to list their ingredients on their products and they are not subject to the same regulations as other products. And many of the chemicals found in cigarette smoke are in perfume. The same chemicals many people are trying to avoid in their water bottles and other products because of cancer fears are in the perfumes they are putting on their skin, and in the dryer sheets they use. One statistic says that 95% of the ingredients in perfume are petroleum based, and I'm fairly certain most of us here aren't ingesting petroleum products, with good reason. The information is out there, but our FDA is ignoring it, and they are not protecting us because despite popular belief, the FDA does not protect consumers from unsafe products.

http://ourlittleplace.com/perfume.html
http://www.ameliaww.com/fpin/FragMatTox.htm
http://www.dangerousproducts.org/fra...s_context.html
http://www.safe2use.com/health/perfume-eternity.htm
http://www.lassentech.com/eiehn03.html
http://www.immuneweb.org/articles/perfume.html
http://www.energygrid.com/health/200...fragrance.html
http://aromatherapy4u.wordpress.com/...ing-chemicals/
http://www.heall.com/medicalfreedom/toxicfragrance.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...06/ai_n8714254
http://stason.org/articles/wellbeing...rd-Part-2.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/27/news/perfume.php
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/38721
http://www.allnaturalbeauty.us/chemi...s_jrussell.htm
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/..._nation/102694
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/9682.php
http://ecomall.com/greenshopping/tigerflag.htm
http://healthinmotion.wordpress.com/...oxic-air-soup/
http://perfumehistory.blogspot.com/2...ck-part-1.html
http://www.ctaz.com/~bhima/toxchem.htm

It's great that smoking is becoming something that no longer just tolerated. Now it's time to do the same thing with other dangerous, toxic fumes we are exposed to by ignorant or inconsiderate people.

for intuitive readings click here :
bigeyes is offline  
Old 02-11-2008, 04:19 AM
 
Sage_SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast, BC
Posts: 2,732
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My city just banned smoking on city property. Its a $1000 fine, which I think is awesome, but I'm really curious as to how they plan on enforcing this.
Sage_SS is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off