Is consensual living different from gentle discipline? If so, how?
Originally Posted by allgirls Consensual living is a philosophy of discipline that is gentle but there are people who discipline quite gently who are not cl. |
Originally Posted by mountainskymama Greetings mamas! I am so thrilled to see a thread about CL here on MDC. I have been a member of the CL yahoo list for many months now, and since *I* have adopted a more consensual way of living, I am amazed at the amount of freedom and joy I feel...which reflects on everyone I come into contact with. While I am a work in progress, and not a CL 'professional' (to borrow from another mama on this thread), I would like to share some of what I have learned about CL - both from mamas and papas on the yahoo list who have been living this way for many years...some for decades, as well as from my own experience. The following is cut and pasted from the CL homepage: Consensual living is a process, a philosophy, a mindset by which we seek to live in harmony with our families and community. It involves finding mutually agreed upon solutions, where the needs of both parties are not only considered but addressed. Everyone's wants and needs are equally valid, regardless of age. Conflicting wants or needs are discussed and mutually agreeable solutions are created or negotiated which meet the underlying needs of all parties. Consensual Living is broad and far reaching. It influences the way we interact with everyone, from our immediate families to our community and the world at large. It is about assigning positive intent and looking for solutions. This can apply in so many arenas. It can change interactions, even if they are historically adversarial. First, I want to be clear that this is *my* perception of CL. This is what CL means to me. CL will look different in every home, in every relationship. There is no one *right* way to do CL. Sure, there are principles, but there are no *rules*. My understanding is that CL is *not* a parenting style. It is a way of living. While it seems that most people do come to CL through the parenting journey, it does not end there. It extends to all relationships, all interactions, both within our homes and our communities. After practicing CL for many months, and experiencing a *huge* evolution in not only my relationships, but in my thought processes, there are some 'concepts' that I kind of keep in the front of my mind. They are: Trust...that there *is* a solution that will work for everyone. Each person has an innate wisdom, each person is walking their own journey...regardless of age. Trust that innate wisdom...When we learn to trust ourselves, the people around us, and the process, then each person is able to trust his/her innate wisdom as well. This does not mean we will agree with *everything* that the people around us choose...this does mean that we trust that they are making the best choices they can, with the information they have, right now. This means to trust that each person is right where s/he needs to be, right now. Consider...each person as an individual. That each person has different needs, and that is okay. Let go...of the stories we tell ourselves, of judgements, of expectation, of dogma. (For more on this, visit www.thework.com) Just like the Law of Attractions states...what we put out will come to us. So if we are expecting our children to act a certain way, it is very likely they will live up to our expectation. When we attach stories or judgements, we are then coming from a place of division rather than a place of connection. Choice...There are *always* choices! Someone mentioned an employee-boss relationship. Yes, when we work at a job, we are *expected* to accomplish certain tasks. However, we *choose* to work at that job. When we choose to work at the job, we are then *choosing* to do the work that job entails. We can choose to work somewhere else, we can choose to work from home, we can choose to not work at all. Yes, if we choose not to work, then we also choose not to make money. But it is still a choice. Sometimes we need to think *way* outside the box to come to this realization...but there are *always* choices. Same goes for our children...there are always choices. Yes, the younger they are, the more creative we have to be. But there is a way to honor their individuality and autonomy...even when they are so little. The best way to understand more about this is to visit the CL website (www.consensual-living.com) and the yahoo list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living) Underlying needs...In the situation someone described about a child hitting his sister, a consensual way of thinking (IMO) is first come from a place of empathy, not judgement. First, it helps to let go of the 'hitting is wrong, he *should* not be hitting her', we let go of the right/wrong mentality and 'shoulds' (there's actually a great thread about this currently on the list). Next, we can state what we see, without judgement, refelct back what we are hearing from each child, and find ways to help. The thought is that when a child is acting out, there is an unmet need. We might think what happened up to this point to create this 'space'? We might think about 'HALT' (Hungry Angry Lonely Tired). We use 'I' statements rather than 'you' statements (visit the Center for Non-violent Communication for more on this: The Center for Nonviolent Communication). In this specific example, I would probably go to the person who is hurt first. I will also try to remember that when someone lashes out to hurt another, they may be hurting inside too, and they are using the information they have right in this moment to express themselves. After helping with any hurts, I would then find out what the need is. If someone is hungry, tired, lonely, etc., I would find a way to meet the need. If the 'hitter' just moved on and continues to play...I might wait for an opportunity to talk about it later, when we are out of that space and we are in a place of connection. I might role play or brainstorm ways to express our anger without hurting. I will definitely listen, and offer empathy for what the child was feeling...knowing that whether or not I agree with the action, that their feelings are valid. This goes for *everyone*. The parents count too! When I have an unmet need (lack of food, water, sleep, tidy house, etc.), I become more coercive and authoritarian...I resort to what I grew up with, what I *know* because it had been ingrained in me for so long. So it is important that I find ways to meet my needs as well. I have found that the less I judge, the more open I am to *all* possibilities (even ones that seem impossible), the more my children open up to this as well...and now they actually come up with the solutions to their own problems...or ask to help. It does not happen everytime, but it happens more and more. They even find ways to help me get my needs met now, and are more willing to give a little so that everyone can be happy, rather than just themselves. Working together...With CL, there is a focus on connection and working together, rather than coercion and division. Something someone wrote to me on the list that sticks with me is 'when children are not pushed, there is nothing to push against'. I keep this in the forefront of my mind. It is important that *I* eat organic, that *I* stay away from wheat, that *I* stay away from sugar, that *I* limit my TV/computer time. I *know* this to be true (for *me) because I have had a relationship with all of these things, I know how I feel when I over-induldge, so I have learned how my body reacts, and what I need to do to take care of me. Within the context of CL, only my children will *know* what their bodies need...and they will learn this through experience. While I may share my thoughts and experiences with them, ultimately, the final say is *theirs*, not mine. I am here to support them, not make choices for them. This means that they might make choices I dont' agree with. This may mean that their choices may render consequences they did not expect or foresee...in that case, it is my role, again, to support...to be there to empathize, to help them find ways to work through it. This is not a space for me to judge, to say 'I told you so' or that 'You got what was coming to you'. This is their chance to learn valuable lessons for themselves, and really internalize the experience, rather than always having to rely on someone else's judgement, which to them is probably pretty abstract. Again, it is my place to offer empathy and support. Someone mentioned hygiene...so I'll work with that example. My kids are not forced to brush their teeth. They never have been. I might suggest it. I might share with them why *I* feel it is important to brush their teeth. I have one child who has always been very conscientious about oral hygiene. I suppose because I model by taking care of my own mouth, I answer her questions when she asks why I floss, use mouthwash, what happens when one doesn't brush (my answer to this is that it is different for everyone....that usually leads us into a talk about genetics). For my little boy, who doesn't like to brush his teeth because the sensation is very uncomfortable for him, we find creative ways to take care of his mouth. I suggest swishing with water after meals, I suggest certain snacks that are good for teeth (apples, carrots), they chew xylitol gum, he uses mouthwash, sometimes he will wipe out his mouth with a cloth. And sometimes he chooses to brush, and sometimes I notice that it's been awhile, and offer to help him. And sometimes he skips a day...and sometimes more than one. Over all, he and his sister have very healthy mouths. And there is never a time where we argue, because I don't push or force them to do it. Last night...about an hour after they went to bed, they came downstairs and said they were discussing teeth, and would like to brush their teeth. I'm sure there is so much more I could go into...but the kids are ready to listen to a story they want me to read...so I'm going to go. I hope this helps. I think the main point to remember is that CL will look different in each family...we are all unique, and have our own, unique needs. I highly suggest visiting the websites I listed for more clear and concise information and ideas. I have a tendency to be very long-winded... Happy travels! |
I went on the consensual living website and the 3 principles of CL are equality, trust, and self determination. I have trouble with the equality and self determination for the young children. Yes, they are equal in that they deserve to be heard, and respected. Where they aren't equal in my eyes is that they don't have the maturity to decide everything for themselves. |
How do children raised under the CL philosophy have any self discipline? I feel like I need to teach them to wash when they are dirty, brush their teeth, eat nutritious foods, pick up their toys, and on and on. If I make all of these things optional and they can do it on their own time because 'they know what is best for their body' how will they become self disciplined adults? |
Re: the job/employee issue. I see your point (I don't remember who made the point) that the relationship is consensual. My fear is that my kid will grow up to think that a job is an option and she can quit whenever she doesn't like it anymore. Sometimes you have to keep a yucky job to pay the bills until you can work something else out. |
Anyway, I love this philosophy...to a point. Or maybe I love it in my adult relationships. I do my best to be this way with my husband...no expectations just requests. I just can't wrap my mind around letting my kid decide EVERYTHING. |
I picture her all grown up with ratting hair and decaying teeth, homeless and dumpster diving because she just quit her 99th job since the demands were too much and the boss' breath stank. |
Anyone raise kids with CL philosophy and now they are adults? TIA...enjoying this thread |
I think the key issue is really the guidance issue. For me, I see very young children as needing lots of "guidance" in the sense of us providing them with alternatives, helping them articulate their needs, etc Because they just can't do it yet on their own - or at least not as fully as an adult. But I'm not to sure about coerced guidance....there are areas where I still do that (note: hairbrushing) but I hope to relinquish that as soon as we can find a solution that makes us both happy. I think it's the consensual part that is important - it's not about "do what you want" - it's about "how do you get what you want while respecting others?" What's the MUTUALLY agreeable solution...As the mom, I'm part of the equation naturally... ....just rambling here - but does this make sense? peace, robyn |