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#181 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 04:58 AM
 
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You know, Kids say these things ALL the time but it doesn't mean it's true.

I nanny a 7 year old, and the other night i was making dinner.
I asked her if she wanted some cantalope(sp??) she said No i have never tried that i hate it . :\ um...she has had cantalope many times. Then i asked her if she wanted some honeydew..."No i hate it i never had it". Yes she has had it before.
Kids just say these things.
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#182 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 05:50 AM
 
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You know, Kids say these things ALL the time but it doesn't mean it's true.
'
That's true. I asked my son what he would say if someone asked him what he normally eats for breakfast. He replied that he doesn't eat breakfast. So not true.
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#183 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 08:44 AM
 
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you must only have one child. if one of my child snuck the big treat and snarfed it down I would be ticked. I would have not gotten any, the other children would not have gotten any and until i went out and dropped another $10-$15 on 2 more packs of blueberries so that everything was fair for the kids and they each got a full thing of blueberries I would have no peace. of course then the one who snuck the blue berries would be crying because she would want more and her other two sisters were feasting while she got none never mind that she had already selfishly devoured 5-$7 bucks worth of blueberries and I would be dealing with all these tantrums while still having nothing but crappy carbs to snack on because another $5 for a serving of blueberries is just too much no matter how much a anted or needed them. . . not to mention all the gas running back and forth to the store. . .
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#184 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 12:28 PM
 
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Well, we all vent about our jobs and our lives, and the MDC is supposed to be a safe place for us to vent our frustrations sometimes. If someone came and posted a frustration about her manager at a Fortune 500 company, likely most people would be supportive and listen rather than raking her over the coals for not being nice enough or empathizing with the manager.

I think everyone here slamming the OP for her "criticism" is just as guilty of the same bad behavior they are accusing her of...

Being a DCP is a LOT different from working in a fortune 500 company.

I doubt that anyone would be less than angry if their DCP was posting things like this about them on the internet.

I do not think the OP has the right (ethically) to do this in a public forum. It is unprofessional at the very least...

Talking to someone IRL would be a more appropriate way to vent.


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#185 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 03:29 PM
 
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Does anyone here honestly believe the OP is actively criticizing the parents in front of these children?
I think kids pick up on it when someone has such a negative view of their parents.

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I'm sorry, but I think there is a lot of harsh criticism going on toward the OP when it seems to me that she's really just venting a frustration. Geez.
However, since she chose to do it here, she obviously was open to hearing some other perspectives.

I vent sometimes, too: I recently vented, on another thread, about a neighbor who seemed critical of me. Another poster challenged my thinking by saying that as a radical unschooler, I should be more open to people's curiosity ... not her exact words, but I was glad she said what she did. It helped me look at my neighbor's questions/criticism in a different way.

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#186 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 03:59 PM
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I doubt that anyone would be less than angry if their DCP was posting things like this about them on the internet.

I do not think the OP has the right (ethically) to do this in a public forum. It is unprofessional at the very least...

Talking to someone IRL would be a more appropriate way to vent.


.
Perhaps the OP doesn't have anyone in real life with whom she feels she can discuss these things? Perhaps she hoped that she'd get a little understanding from the members of the MDC because she shares many values with other members here, non-mainstream values, I might add.

As for her ethical right to vent about the parents of her daycare kids, I don't see her naming names, giving out identifying information or otherwise specifying anything about these people that could identify them to someone reading the post, so there is nothing unethical about her venting her frustration in the manner she did. If she worked for a medical office and she posted a vent about something going on in her office and did so in the same vague terms she did here, she would not be censured by the privacy laws--because she didn't identify anyone.

Call it "bad form" or an error in judgment, but I think implying the OP is somehow "UNETHICAL" because she dared complain about the parents of the kids she cares for is beyond hyperbole.
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#187 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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Perhaps the OP doesn't have anyone in real life with whom she feels she can discuss these things? Perhaps she hoped that she'd get a little understanding from the members of the MDC because she shares many values with other members here, non-mainstream values, I might add.

As for her ethical right to vent about the parents of her daycare kids, I don't see her naming names, giving out identifying information or otherwise specifying anything about these people that could identify them to someone reading the post, so there is nothing unethical about her venting her frustration in the manner she did. If she worked for a medical office and she posted a vent about something going on in her office and did so in the same vague terms she did here, she would not be censured by the privacy laws--because she didn't identify anyone.

Call it "bad form" or an error in judgment, but I think implying the OP is somehow "UNETHICAL" because she dared complain about the parents of the kids she cares for is beyond hyperbole.
I will continue to call it unethical...I never said it was illegal or that she had violated a privacy act. I would also consider discussing medical clients to be unethical.



eth·ics Pronunciation[eth-iks]
–plural noun
1.(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.

2.the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.

3.moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.

4.(usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

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#188 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 07:20 PM
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I know the definition of "ethics."

I also know the definition of making a mountain out of a molehill.

That said, clearly we feel differently on this subject and I will just have to agree to disagree with you.
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#189 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 08:00 PM
 
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eth·ics Pronunciation[eth-iks]
–plural noun
1.(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.

2.the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.

3.moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.

4.(usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
.
So you think it is unethical to complain completely anonymously about your job if you are a daycare provider, but it isn't unethical to complain about a different job? You expressed earlier that you think that it is different if someone complains about a Fortune 500 company. Why is it that you feel it is different?

As far as complaining in a public forum goes... well... if you can't pick the poster out of a lineup and you have no idea who the parents are that she is complaining about, what is the problem? That is the point on anonymity. It seems as though it would be more of a problem for her to complain to people in her life who know who she is talking about. Then she would be "gossiping." Here she is venting a frustration without hurting anyone in any way.

Oh, and to go through your definition: she isn't violating the ethics of our general culture (yeah, internet boards like this exist for people to talk about their lives and that includes job frustrations). She obviously isn't violating her personal ethics by posting, though she could be violating yours. And given that you posted that complaining about job stuff in general isn't the problem it isn't #4. Which leaves # 2.

Why do you think that daycare providers should be placed into a position where they are not allowed to vent frustration when other people can? Because OH.MY.GOD. they might be implying that they don't agree with how other people parent? So what? Given how you are responding here I'm willing to bet that you don't agree with how other people parent at all times. Are you allowed to say so?

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#190 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 09:45 PM
 
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So you think it is unethical to complain completely anonymously about your job if you are a daycare provider, but it isn't unethical to complain about a different job?
I Sure do!

It's like comparing apples and oranges.
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#191 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 10:52 PM
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I Sure do!

It's like comparing apples and oranges.
I want to ask a question, but I want to preface it by saying that I'm not being obnoxious and that my tone isn't sarcastic. I said I would simply accept the fact that we don't agree on this subject, and I do...but your above statement really has me wondering.

Can you explain why it is you believe that it is unethical for a DCP to complain (anonymously) about her job but it's not unethical for an employee of a large company to complain (anonymously) about her job?

You say it's like comparing apples to oranges. And I wonder what you mean. I mean, certainly comparing an in-home day care to a Fortune 500 company is like comparing apples and oranges, but I don't understand how an employee complaining about her job with either is like comparing apples to oranges. Would you expound on that?
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#192 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 11:07 PM
 
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The school i work at has a grant to get fresh fruits and veggies from a local grocery store and you should see some of the reactions from the kids (K-5). Pineapple brought a chorus of what is that stuff? Watermelon and strawberries weren't much better. We had to stop serving tomatoes, peas, and a few other veggies b/c the kids would not touch them. Carrots are ok, but only with ranch. About half the kids are still leery of anything that isn't an orange (which I hate b/c then they're all sticky all day), apple or banana. Even pears are weird to some of them.
Plus my 5th grade group has had to take home a food pyramid worksheet all week. More than half the class doesn't' eat anything but meat, fat and grains at home. This was signed by parents so I'm assuming they aren't lying.

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#193 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 11:14 PM
 
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I want to ask a question, but I want to preface it by saying that I'm not being obnoxious and that my tone isn't sarcastic. I said I would simply accept the fact that we don't agree on this subject, and I do...but your above statement really has me wondering.

Can you explain why it is you believe that it is unethical for a DCP to complain (anonymously) about her job but it's not unethical for an employee of a large company to complain (anonymously) about her job?

You say it's like comparing apples to oranges. And I wonder what you mean. I mean, certainly comparing an in-home day care to a Fortune 500 company is like comparing apples and oranges, but I don't understand how an employee complaining about her job with either is like comparing apples to oranges. Would you expound on that?
You really can't figure out the difference????
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#194 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 11:34 PM
 
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You really can't figure out the difference????
Uhm, I can't. And most people consider me extremely bright. Is it possible for you to explain your reasoning?

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#195 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 11:37 PM
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You really can't figure out the difference????
Clearly I can't or I wouldn't have asked.

Never mind.
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#196 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 11:39 PM
 
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Uhm, I can't. And most people consider me extremely bright. Is it possible for you to explain your reasoning?
This will have to be explained to me as well.

The actual businesses are obviously different, but the relationships and people are still the same and still affected in the same manner would the news get out that said employee is venting about her work situation.

But, chances are no one will know the difference either way. She isn't telling us who she is, where she is, or who her customers are. She isn't elling us the names or exact ages of the children, or what they look like, what their parents do for a living, nothing identifying.

Might it make some parents paranoid that this is their caregiver or that their caregiver may be "venting" to others? It might. But these people need to get over it. We ALL vent about our jobs from time to time. It doesn't mean we "hate" our jobs, just that we are human and sometimes get overwhelmed and stressed.

Now, about that explanation...
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#197 of 243 Old 05-13-2008, 11:43 PM
 
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Can you explain why it is you believe that it is unethical for a DCP to complain (anonymously) about her job but it's not unethical for an employee of a large company to complain (anonymously) about her job?
I'm wondering the same thing.


I was just thinking about this thread today, because at dinner tonight I had a bowl of sliced apples on the table and my 3 y.o. son said, "Oooh, I never had these before."

(We buy a 5 pound bag of apples every week, btw)

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#198 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 12:46 AM
 
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I guess I am the only person that sees this as being inappropriate/unprofessional/unethical to talk smack about your daycare families on the internet.

I don't have time to launch into a huge explanation right now...but I will come back later and do so
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#199 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 02:21 AM
 
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I will just have to agree to disagree with you.
until someone else jumps on your bandwagon???
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#200 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 02:35 AM
 
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A Home DCP is almost like an extended (honorary) member of your family. When parents have to WOHM they are putting so much trust in their child care provider.

They are trusting that the DCP has respect for them as parents. You, as the Home DCP, should be loyal to your families that you are providing care for. NOT trashing them on the internet.


Totally different from griping about company policy or a nasty supervisor at a major corp.


Gossiping about your clients who are trusting you to be almost a part of the family....a total breach of trust IMO.

But then again, this is the reason I SAHM with my kids...

Maybe I just have higher expectations of a DCP than most people...I am okay with that



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#201 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 02:54 AM
 
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A Home DCP is almost like an extended (honorary) member of your family. When parents have to WOHM they are putting so much trust in their child care provider.

They are trusting that the DCP has respect for them as parents. You, as the Home DCP, should be loyal to your families that you are providing care for. NOT trashing them on the internet.

Totally different from griping about company policy or a nasty supervisor at a major corp.

Gossiping about your clients who are trusting you to be almost a part of the family....a total breach of trust IMO.

But then again, this is the reason I SAHM with my kids...

Maybe I just have higher expectations of a DCP than most people...I am okay with that
Ok. Thank you for explaining where you are coming from. Do you think it is unethical to vent about your family on the internet?

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#202 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 03:00 AM
 
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Ok. Thank you for explaining where you are coming from. Do you think it is unethical to vent about your family on the internet?
Nope. Totally Different.

You don't get to choose your family.

As a DCP you DO get to choose who your clients will be. And it is a business relationship, even if it is unique.

If the people that you are providing daycare for bother you enough to bash them on the internet then maybe it isn't really a good match, you know?


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#203 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 03:27 AM
 
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Nope. Totally Different.

You don't get to choose your family.

As a DCP you DO get to choose who your clients will be. And it is a business relationship, even if it is unique.

If the people that you are providing daycare for bother you enough to bash them on the internet then maybe it isn't really a good match, you know?
.
I'm confused. First you say that daycare providers shouldn't bash clients because they are honorary family members, but then you say it is a business relationship.

From where I am sitting (it's a pretty couch) everyone has some level of frustration with people they interact with. Humans are annoying. I feel like anonymously venting about something small that annoys you (and whether or not kids eat strawberries and watermelons is certainly a small thing) allows you to get out the level of irritation you feel with people. It's not hurting anyone. The people you are feeling frustrated with never even have to know you were frustrated with them but they get to benefit from you lowering your frustration level. I agree that it would be unacceptable to say, "My name is Mary and I work at Sunshine Daycare and the parents of little Billy and little Sally are horrible parents." I don't feel like that is what the original poster did though. She has a certain set of strong values around what sorts of food children should be exposed to (I'm not saying those values are right or wrong) and she said essentially, "Gahhhhhh!!!! How can people not share my values?!" That seems like a pretty neutral thing to me.

I think that where your opinion and mine are sharply diverging is that I think that it isn't fair to hold different people to different standards of behavior. I'm very universal in my approaches to things. This bites me in the @$$ sometimes because I'm too black and white, but it also means I am far more tolerant in situations like this. Maybe this is just a situation where you are seeing a different shade of gray than exists for me.

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#204 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 04:10 AM
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until someone else jumps on your bandwagon???
What are you talking about?

I don't understand your tone when I have been very careful to be conscientious of mine.

I don't need anyone to jump on my bandwagon to disagree with you. I think you are wrong. I thought you were wrong when I first responded. I think you are wrong now.

The fact that several other people don't understand your position has nothing to do with my disagreeing with you.

All in all, I've tried to be respectful. Obviously, that doesn't make much of a difference to you. Oh well. So much for meaningful communication.
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#205 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 05:05 AM
 
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What are you talking about?
this

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That said, clearly we feel differently on this subject and I will just have to agree to disagree with you.
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#206 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 05:28 AM
 
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Perhaps the OP doesn't have anyone in real life with whom she feels she can discuss these things? Perhaps she hoped that she'd get a little understanding from the members of the MDC because she shares many values with other members here, non-mainstream values, I might add.

As for her ethical right to vent about the parents of her daycare kids, I don't see her naming names, giving out identifying information or otherwise specifying anything about these people that could identify them to someone reading the post, so there is nothing unethical about her venting her frustration in the manner she did. If she worked for a medical office and she posted a vent about something going on in her office and did so in the same vague terms she did here, she would not be censured by the privacy laws--because she didn't identify anyone.

Call it "bad form" or an error in judgment, but I think implying the OP is somehow "UNETHICAL" because she dared complain about the parents of the kids she cares for is beyond hyperbole.

What, exactly, are "Non-Mainstream Values"???
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#207 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 05:37 AM
 
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I'm confused. First you say that daycare providers shouldn't bash clients because they are honorary family members, but then you say it is a business relationship.
Yep

It is both

I am not sure what is confusing...



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#208 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 08:19 AM
 
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Complaining is par for the course. But the judgment of other people's parenting gets old--no matter what your values are, or what philosophies you to which you adhere.

I'd say the thread sparked with so many people because we are all so darn tired of being judged for our choices as parents, yet...it's so darn hard to stop judging.

Ha--maybe I should have said the judgment of other people's parening NEVER gets old!
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#209 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 10:18 AM
 
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Complaining is par for the course. But the judgment of other people's parenting gets old--no matter what your values are, or what philosophies you to which you adhere.

I'd say the thread sparked with so many people because we are all so darn tired of being judged for our choices as parents, yet...it's so darn hard to stop judging.

Ha--maybe I should have said the judgment of other people's parening NEVER gets old!


My main concern with the OP's bashing of the parents is not so much about the ethics of anonymously complaining about unnamed people, to complete strangers who have no way of knowing who you are or who you're talking about.

It just bugged me, when the OP's bashing of these children's homes and lifestyles, was followed by what seemed to be a lot of posts saying things like, "How lucky these children are, that at least they have you to care about them."

I wasn't saying the OP was a terrible person -- I just don't think any child is "lucky" to be spending his/her days with someone who has such disdain for that child's parents. And no, I don't for one second believe that the OP says hateful things about the parents in the children's hearing.

I just know, from my own personal experiences of being a kid, that adults don't have to say anything directly bad about another person, for kids to pick up on the fact that they dislike/disapprove of that other person. So, I think that if she loves these kids and wants to keep caring for them (and I believe she does), she needs to make a choice to start loving and respecting their parents, too.

And no, respecting doesn't mean agreeing with all the other parent's choices ... it's impossible, anyway, to find one. single. other person who we're going to agree with 100% anyway. It just means that she respects the fact that God (or whatever force she believes in) has entrusted these particular children to these particular parents -- so there must be something about these parents that's ideal for these particular children. They were meant to grow up in these families.

As I've already said, I sometimes come here to vent, too. But I always do so knowing that I'm venting to a diverse bunch of people, some of whom may sympathize more with the person I'm venting about, than they do with me. I think it's healthy to hear back from all kinds of people -- sure, empathy and sympathy helps, but so does the reminder that diversity is essential to life and good problem-solving.

Susan -- married unschoolin' WAHMomma to two lovely girls (born 2000 and 2005).
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#210 of 243 Old 05-14-2008, 10:43 AM
 
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I just bristle a little when caregiving workers are called members of the family by their employers. I know it's done out of respect for the close relationship, but caregiving workers have their own families. I think they are entitled to the same kind of mixed emotions that most of us have toward our jobs. And as long as anonymity is closely guarded, I don't see a problem with venting about it online or anywhere else.

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