I couldn't do it.... - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
marymamma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What do ya'll think about this?

Tom Cruise's silent signs
2006-03-28 15:40:12
Tom Cruise's pregnant fiancee Katie Holmes will reportedly give birth amid huge white signs reminding her to stay silent.

The actress has allegedly agreed to deliver her baby in total silence in accordance with a bizarre Scientology tradition.

Katie and Tom - a long-standing devotee of the sci-fi cult - have had posters spelling out Katie's labour rules delivered to their home.

Friends - who are thought to be Scientology elders - have been photographed carrying the placards through the gates of the couple's plush Los Angeles mansion.

One of the 6ft signs reads: "Be silent and make all physical movements slow and understandable."

Scientologists believe the strange ritual should be carried out to prevent children from turning mad.

Founder, L.Ron Hubbard, tells his followers in his book 'Dianetics': "Maintain silence in the presence of birth to save both the sanity of the mother and child and safeguard the home to which they will go.

"The maintaining of silence does not mean a volley of 'Sh's', for those make stammerers."
marymamma is offline  
#2 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 03:48 PM
 
HomeBirthMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dingoland
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't even know what to say. Ugh.

Paige, mama to three girls, (10), (8) and (3)
HomeBirthMommy is offline  
#3 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 03:50 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry to bust in on your DDC, but wanted to respond. *She* does not have to be silent. She is allowed to moan and make other normal birthing sounds. No one *else* is allowed to make noise to reduce the amount of confusion and fear that would enter the baby when it's born in the form of theatens (sp? the little aliens)

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#4 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 04:46 PM
 
time4another's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Between Here and There
Posts: 690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ugh...Tom Cruise...

Nope I couldn't birth in total silence to answer you question.

Now for a question of my own...are they planning a HB? Does anyone know?

Heather
time4another is offline  
#5 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 05:05 PM
 
mother4good's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by time4another

Now for a question of my own...are they planning a HB? Does anyone know?

Heather
The article I have says this:
"TOM Cruise’s pregnant fiancée Katie Holmes will be reminded to keep her vow of silence during birth — by signs plastered around their home. "

That spells home birth to me!

What I want to know is why silence for 7 days? Seems like torture for the baby who is used to hearing mommy's voice and lots of other womby noises.

Also what about the stay on medical treatment--at least the baby won't have to be vaxed, I guess, but I don't know anything about scientology--what if there's a problem? Can they treat it?


OOOps! SO sorry! I found this thread on a search...didn't ee it was a DDC. Excuse me.... .
mother4good is offline  
#6 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 06:11 PM
 
ComaWhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I couldn't do it....
I WOULDN'T do it.

What a whack-o freak that man is.
ComaWhite is offline  
#7 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 06:28 PM
 
HomeBirthMommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dingoland
Posts: 4,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Whew! All I can say is good thing I didn't marry him in 1986 when I REALLY wanted to.

Paige, mama to three girls, (10), (8) and (3)
HomeBirthMommy is offline  
#8 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 06:28 PM
 
radicalmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not in your due date club but couldn't help adding my two cents...

Do I think Tom is crazy? Absolutely.

However...there are worse things than giving birth in silence at home.

Honestly, I don't want a bunch of people yapping at my birth either...
radicalmama is offline  
#9 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 06:39 PM
 
Janelovesmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: with water bugs.
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just watched news on "E!" - (yes, I'm a freak) and Katie will be giving birth in the hospital. So much for homebirth.
Janelovesmax is offline  
#10 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 06:46 PM
 
Girl Named Sandoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: On the road to Mandalay...
Posts: 1,576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm against anyone telling a woman how she "should" birth.
Girl Named Sandoz is offline  
#11 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 07:23 PM
 
Kathryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Butting in again. : Katie wants to give birth in a hospital, he wants her to give birth at home or at the mothership of Scientology. The whole week thing is on the same idea as the birth thing.

Mom to Dakota (6), Coy, (4), Max, (4), Lily (4), and Auri (June 19th 2010)!
Visit Lily's site at www.caringbridge.org/visit/lilymathis1
Kathryn is offline  
#12 of 24 Old 03-28-2006, 08:00 PM
 
LeosMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N.Colorado
Posts: 1,929
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kathryn, that's my understanding, too, that only other people are supposed to refrain from speaking and disturbing the birth.
It actually sounds like a good idea to me. I found other people's speaking and moving around to be distracting and imposing. I didn't like the nurses bustling around the room or my dh or doula doing anything that I didn't understand - as in was supporting me in a way I could see.

These rules make sense to me. It's about making the birth experience peaceful for mother and baby. The mother doesn't have to keep quiet, only the attendants. Sounds good to me!!

Same thing for quiet for a week after, it's about everyone else respecting the new mother-baby pair, the mother doesn't have to be quiet.
LeosMama is offline  
#13 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 02:29 PM
 
maciascl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Land of Confusion
Posts: 3,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
WTF!!!! Is about all I can say to this. And BIG HUGS to Katie for getting herself wrapped up in all this. Poor thing! I hope she has an easy labor & no PPD, because we all know that she won't have any support if she does.

Cheryl, wife to an amazing man, homeschooling SAHM to Gavin 12/03, Rhys 09/06, and Ian Aug 11, 2010.

maciascl is offline  
#14 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 02:35 PM
 
maciascl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Land of Confusion
Posts: 3,568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeosMama
Kathryn, that's my understanding, too, that only other people are supposed to refrain from speaking and disturbing the birth.
It actually sounds like a good idea to me. I found other people's speaking and moving around to be distracting and imposing. I didn't like the nurses bustling around the room or my dh or doula doing anything that I didn't understand - as in was supporting me in a way I could see.

These rules make sense to me. It's about making the birth experience peaceful for mother and baby. The mother doesn't have to keep quiet, only the attendants. Sounds good to me!!

Same thing for quiet for a week after, it's about everyone else respecting the new mother-baby pair, the mother doesn't have to be quiet.
Ok now if this is true, then I spoke too soon. This is or alteast could be a good thing. Although I still have an issue with Tom having so much control over what Katie does & how she does it.

Cheryl, wife to an amazing man, homeschooling SAHM to Gavin 12/03, Rhys 09/06, and Ian Aug 11, 2010.

maciascl is offline  
#15 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 02:43 PM
 
ComaWhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
They were discussing this on the c-birth yahoo group.
Apparently scientology also has a seperation peroid of the baby from parents from 24 hours up to 7 days after the birth.
They also dont breastfeed or formula feed, rather feed their babies an alternative barley milk.
And yeah, the mama has to remain silent as well
Quote:
(KP International) The days leading up to childbirth can be stressful for a
first-time mother, which could be compounded for expecting-mom Katie Holmes
who is rumoured to be having a Scientology-style "silent birth."
According to the religion Holmes must remain silent during delivery in order
to not traumatize the newborn baby.
"Only Tom and a few Scientology supporters will be in the room not Katie's
mother," said a source. Once the noise-free delivery is over the baby is
separated from the mother for 24 hours after birth.
"It's a lot for an expectant mother to be worrying about," said another
source close to Holmes. "Katie has seen the way Tom's raising his own kids,
Connor, 11, and Isabella, 13, who are Scientologists, and I bet she's
nervous about what that way of life will mean for her child."
ComaWhite is offline  
#16 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 05:58 PM
 
ashley1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Deep breath. Maybe its the pregnancy hormones but I can't bite my lip! This is not going to be popular.

My first reaction is... WHO CARES!!! Some (definitely not all) of the posts here are so judgemental I can't believe it.

Calling someone "crazy" and a "freak" because you don't understand their beliefs? Yes I did say "don't understand." Clearly there are no scientologists around to explain their traditions, this hostile little club has no room for different opinions!

So you don't respect thier religion? You don't agree with their birth choices? I would have hoped that on this "alternative" board we would be a bit less judgemental about other people's choices and a bit more accepting of people different than us.

Think about it. How frustrating is it when we are faced with "mainstream" friends who don't understand our choices (homebirth, not vaxing, etc) and insult OUR choices?

I am NOT saying that I agree with their traditions. But I know enough about life that I am not so hostile and judgemental about something I don't understand.
ashley1972 is offline  
#17 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 07:08 PM
 
ComaWhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
So you don't respect thier religion? You don't agree with their birth choices? I would have hoped that on this "alternative" board we would be a bit less judgemental about other people's choices and a bit more accepting of people different than us.
I believe (and I might get my head bit off for this) that all organized religion is dangerous.
Especially when that certain religion has a set rules TELLING women HOW TO BIRTH, seperating mamas for up to a week from their newborns and robbing babies of their birthright to breastmilk. I think its funny how you used the phrase "birth CHOICES" When I dont see a "CHOICE" in the clearly-layed-out rules of L. Ron Hubbard.

I am getting soooo sick of getting the "judgemental" book thrown around anytime anyone here on mothering dares to form an opinion.
ComaWhite is offline  
#18 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 07:12 PM
 
Mimi37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DC burbs
Posts: 628
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One big reason I "don't understand" Scientology's practices better is that they won't explain the details to those who don't pay literally thousands of dollars. Any religion that seems to discourage independent thinking makes me VERY alarmed, and that includes branches of my own religion.

As for the specifics of Scientology birth practices, I'm sure there are many worse things you could do to your baby than making yourself and everyone else stay quiet during birth and leaving the baby alone for a day or more after it's born (http://www.slate.com/id/2128041/?nav=ais). But both practices seem highly unnatural to me, and I wouldn't trust a sci-fi writer from the 1950s to tell me otherwise.

As to why we care, well, I don't know. TomKat is very famous, and it seems to be human nature to observe and comment on (and judge) the rich and famous. I don't lose sleep over the TomKitten, but if it were my sister or best friend doing this, I would be trying to talk them out of it til my throat was hoarse.

Mimi :yawning: the happy mama of one DD & one DS ; married to my sweetie.
Mimi37 is offline  
#19 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 07:23 PM
 
liseux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: washington d.c.
Posts: 1,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ashley, I hear what you`re saying & I agree that its not cool to judge what works for other people. I think the issue here is that what Scientology recommends is the complete opposite of the classic AP values. A baby born and kept away from his mom and not breastfed (as recommended by Hubbard) is very alien to MDC & very disrespectful of the baby`s basic needs, the first being his mother`s loving arms. This is a safe place where people can comment on that, IRL I`m sure most of us would be more diplomatic if we were actually talking to Kelly ******* or somebody.

As a pro life Catholic who doesn`t use birth control I see threads on here all the time bashing people like me, Oh well, I just avoid them. Many people are very rigid in NFL communities, but I think most of us agree on basic standards of baby care.

Married Catholic mami : to 5 boys, : 9 6 3 : 5 mo. 5/6/02-6/22/02 (HIE)
:
liseux is offline  
#20 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 08:55 PM
 
ashley1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
"I think its funny how you used the phrase "birth CHOICES" When I dont see a "CHOICE" in the clearly-layed-out rules of L. Ron Hubbard."

Yes I call them birth choices because that is exactly what they are. If a couple chooses to follow a specific tradition that is their CHOICE. No one is forcing this couple or other scientologists to do something against their will. They obviously believe that is the best option for them and their child. They have made their CHOICE to follow this doctrine. Enough said.

I have not read anywhere that scientologists do not allow for breastfeeding but Andrea seems to really understand the tenents of scientology (which is interesting considering Mimi's point, that it is difficult to study.) I can't believe this is true but if it is I am definitely curious why they feel the way they do but my point is the same: let's save our rightousness for what we understand. Let people be!

Mimi, I agree with you that if it was my sister or best friend, I too would try to talk them out of it. But I'd also listen to the reasons why they want this kind of silent birth and try to understand the traditions that they obviously embrace.

Bowing out now.
ashley1972 is offline  
#21 of 24 Old 03-29-2006, 09:52 PM
 
MamaRainebeau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For anyone who would like to become better versed about Scientology the following two sites are your best bets. The first explains, very briefly, the second.

A pp was correct in stating that Scientology as a rule will not share its tenant/practices openly with anyone other than Scientologists of the right "rank." Acheiving a certain level requires the practitioner to pay for extensive session and classes on how to view the world (the Scientology way), the secrets of the religion, etc. From what I understand, there is such monetary and emotional-worth involvement invested by the praticer by the time upper levels or even higher than basic level are reached that extrication from the religion is very difficult if not imposible in some instances.

INterestingly, if you had gone to the Scientology website a few months ago (before the Tom and Katie hubub), you would have seen a total lack of substance...only an offer to have a "personality profile" done. There is still a lack of subtanc ein terms of how one actually becomes a scientologist/practices, etc. but they have added some basic background info on it...probably because of the recent media outcry against their seemingly "strange" ways. We each have to judge for ourself. I have already come to my own conclusions. I hope you think these sites are helpful.
As an aside:
When I lived in Los Angeles a friend of mine actually had a personality profile done at the center there and was, as she herself labeled, held against her will for several hours while they tried to talk her into Scientology (she refered to it a attemted brainwashing, I'm trying to be more delicate). They actually had her go to a testing center in Hollywood for the test, then transported her to a second location to go over the results with her. She said she felt strange about the change in location but felt like she didn't have a good reason to object...they were supposedly on the up and up and all...
Anyway, she ended up having to threaten getting the police involved to get them to take her back to the first center. When they took her back they wouldn't let her out of the car right away (still trying to talk sense into her, I suppose) and she rolled the window down and told them if they didn't unlock the doors she'd scream she was being raped or beaten...
Interestingly, despite her totally negative experience with them, and her obvious lack of desire to pursue Scientology, they kept calling her for several months to offer her free "classes". IMHO, Creepy.

So that was a really long digression... here are the websites...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Clambake

http://www.xenu.net/

http://scientology.org
MamaRainebeau is offline  
#22 of 24 Old 03-30-2006, 05:24 PM
 
littleteapot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Mystery Island
Posts: 3,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
C'mon now.
Even natural family living mamas have to have a place, and a chance, where they can discuss something that bothers them.
Of course we judge: if no one ever judged we'd never make any descisions. We wouldn't be able to tell if red or black looked better on us, or if we liked that guy or his brother. Judging is natural.

Don't throw the book at someone because they're expressing how they couldn't do it, or don't understand it. I have yet to see anyone here say, "Scientology is stupid and I think Katie is stupid". that would be crossing the line.

photosmile2.gifBabs + trekkie.gifCurtis - Parents of Tempest blahblah.gif(08/07/03 autismribbon.gif), Jericho angel2.gif(11/01/05 ribboncesarean.gif), Xan moon.gif(10/03/06 uc.jpghbac.gif), Zephyra baby.gif(06/02/11 hbac.gif). mdcblog5.gif @ babyslime.livejournal.com

littleteapot is offline  
#23 of 24 Old 05-11-2006, 05:29 AM
 
Ms.Doula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: schooling, loving, crafting, SEWING
Posts: 9,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ms.Doula is offline  
#24 of 24 Old 05-11-2006, 01:59 PM
 
Autumn_Breeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do not agree with this way of birthing, its a beautiful, painful expierience, that needs to be vocalized. I know the whole floor of the labor/birth unit will hear me wailing away, when it comes time for me to give birth. I admire those who can birth naturally and moan the whole time, but we are all tolerate pain differently, and I think if someone needs to scream at the top of their lungs, they should go for it, lol.
Autumn_Breeze is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off