HELP! Circumcision Issues w/ DH - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-27-2006, 02:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My DH & I cannot agree on this issue. I am strongly opposed and he is all for it : - we know it's a boy so we have to deal with this issue. I know there's got to be tons of literature and I've heard there's a video regarding circumcision that can help me change his mind...please HELP!
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:28 AM
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I'd check out the Case against Circumcision board here. I'm sure they have alot of great info to help you out. Just remember that you're his mom, so you have a say. You don't have to back down to your DH on this because he has a penis and you don't. Good luck.

www.nocirc.org

www.cirp.org

http://www.intact.ca (has Video)

Here's one with lots of links.
www.foreskin.org/links.htm

 
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SAHM to Kaelan (11) Chandra (9) Liam (7) Lachlan (5) Killian (4),Riordan (1), Baby Boy EDD 11/14. All born at home!

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Old 06-27-2006, 08:40 AM
 
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Ack...that sucks. I like to use my immature argument whenever dh and I disagree about anything baby related...."I carried this baby for nine months, dealt with the morning sickness, not being able to tie my shoes anymore, stretch marks, etc and I get the final say when it comes to xxx." Yes, not very mature I know.

The fact is a circumcision cannot be reversed once it's done. But you can always wait and have it done later. Also circ rates are going down quite a bit every year.
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Old 06-27-2006, 09:46 AM
 
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I would first figure out what his reasoning is for wanting to circ, then arm yourself with info about why that reasoning doesn't make sense. For my DH, it was health - he thought it was healthier. I showed him resources showing that it is not any healthier and that uncirc'd penises are easy to clean.

Funny thing is that my DH and I never really discussed it before baby was born. I had sent him a bunch of links, and we just didn't get around to discussing the info. But when DS was coming very early, the nurse asked if we planned to circ and I said "*I* don't want to", then looked at DH, and he said "No." So DS was left intact, and I'm so glad we did that! He's 2 years old today (!!!), and we've had absolutely NO problems with his penis. You don't have to do anything special at this age. Later on, the foreskin needs to be pulled back during a shower and rinse underneath, but that's it, and it's just a matter of teaching the boy simple hygeine, just like you'll want to make sure he washes his smelly armpits during a shower.

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Old 06-27-2006, 10:40 AM
 
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I agree with the pp... Ask your DH why he wants it and then bebunk the myths... it is not healthier at all and it is purely a unnessasary cosmetic surgery...

The Case against Circ board here is great with answering questions and giving tons of info... check it out!

 
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Old 06-27-2006, 10:54 AM
 
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yup, another call here for trying to find out from your dh *why* he wants to circ...and then tackling those ideas head-on.

I'm sorry that you have this conflict
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Old 06-27-2006, 01:03 PM
 
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One of the moms here on MDC just made a blog all about circ (well why you shouldn't). Here's the link: http://genitalintegrity.blogspot.com/

I hope your DH will come around!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 06-27-2006, 02:24 PM
 
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This isn't exactly suggestion, but something that happened to my friends... maybe it would put things in perspective for your dh? Anyway, my friends were in the same situation, and her dh was absolutely intent on having the baby circ'ed, and though my friend didn't want it and had made that clear, she didn't really push the issue. Her dh claimed it was for religious reasons because he's jewish, though is not practicing in any sense of the word. So anyway, when the baby was born he had a collapsed lung and had to be flown to a city 2 hours away. The mom didn't end up making it down until 3 days later, and her dh had gone down immediately to be there with the baby. Anyway, to make a long story short, her dh was so traumatized by what his baby had to go through that when the decision came to circ or not he said "no, he's already been through enough." I think all the emergency stuff that happened really gave him a wake up call about how traumatizing circ is... you know, he was forced to see all this other stuff being done to his baby... I think the 'real' fact of it is kind of vague to most men, it seems like more of a social thing to them rather than a physical one.
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Old 06-27-2006, 02:25 PM
 
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I hear you on this issue! I thought it would be a no-brainer for us, but then when my SIL did, dh said 'what's the big deal?' It's the old it-was-done-to-me thing. And we're in the midwest where it IS still done.

I believe dh didn't want to have the conversation with me b/c he didn't want to have to watch the videos, etc., so he said 'let's just see when the baby is born'. I wasn't happy with that and scheduled an ultrasound to determine the sex. Dh HATES ruining the 'surprise' like that and immediately backed down, saying he'd never do anything to our kids that we weren't in agreement on.

On the cheap shot side, I told him I couldn't be close to him with that issue between us.... 4 days later, he caved.

And I did check a little on the net in regards to how courts rule about that.... not circ'ing usually gets support in the courts, even with religion. I suppose because it's now considered cosmetic only.

Good luck!! It's hard when the man you love wants to remove part of your new babys sex organ!! At least, that's what I told my girlfriends.:

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Old 06-27-2006, 02:42 PM
 
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I had the same thing with my DH about a month ago. He was for circ and I was totally against. His reasons were that he was, not a very good one in my estimation. And that kids in the locker room would point out the difference. So I sent him all the info I could find, I did not make him watch the video. I think mothersagainstcirc.org was the one he liked best. Then I told him what the sites said so I could be sure he was getting the info. He was most impressed by the info on sex being better for and with intact men. I also got together a few of our adult male friends who are intact and had them tell DH that school was fine, and no girl went screaming from the bedroom. In the end DH came around, and even make the comment that he felt robbed of his foreskin.

We do live in CA though, were the circ rate is now about 30%.
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Old 06-27-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilyrose
he was forced to see all this other stuff being done to his baby... I think the 'real' fact of it is kind of vague to most men, it seems like more of a social thing to them rather than a physical one.
I think this is it, exactly. My dh didn't even want to LOOK at the information, and I really couldn't picture him actually going with our newborn to do the procedure, but as long as it is an abstract concept he's fine with it.

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Old 06-27-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestmeg
And we're in the midwest where it IS still done.
It's still done alot around here too (I'm in the southeast). The only people locally I know who don't circ are the women at my crunchy moms' group where all kinds of NFL stuff is talked about. Outside of that - my "normal" friends () all circ or would circ if they had a boy. At church, every baby penis I've seen so far (when their moms were changing diapers or when I was helping the kids in my 2 year old class go potty) were circ'd. I think I'm the only one there that doesn't! And they are totally doing it because it's the "societal norm".

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Old 06-27-2006, 04:51 PM
 
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I'm sort of torn right now myself, because I just found out yesterday that I am having a boy.... but I don't know which way I should go. Circ or no circ. I don't know if DH would go for not circ'ing because he is. My concern also lies with whether or not he would be shunned or made fun of at school. I know kids can be cruel.... I am leaning towards having the procedure done but am not completely sure yet... I don't really want to bring it up to DH yet because we can't even agree on a name.... nevermind something like circ'ing. I know in the long run, I'll get my way, I always do... I just want to make sure it's the right decision and seeing as how I don't have a penis I'm really stressed about making such a huge decision that will affect my son forever!!!:
I just need to do more research I guess and maybe that will help me. I am concerned about infection because my nephew wasn't circ'ed and he apparently wasn't cleaning well enough (tmi... sorry) and when he was 10yrs old had to go get a circ done. As a boy, he was much happier afterwards.... So I'm very confused!
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeful1
I just want to make sure it's the right decision and seeing as how I don't have a penis I'm really stressed about making such a huge decision that will affect my son forever!!!
This is a really good reason to leave your son as he will be born and then when he's grown he can get circed if he wants to.

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:02 PM
 
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Maybe you could listen to the reasons why your husband feels the way he does in a non-combative atmosphere. I think men have a lot invested in their privates and it transfers to their sons. If he can talk out the reason why he's for it, he may realise that his argument is more of a personal reaction to a past event. When you hear his side, you may be able to work together to find the least damaging solution.

You may also want to ask your doctor what the circ rates are in the area. My family practice dr (handling the delivery and aftercare of us both) said that less than half of her patients opt for a circ. While we agreed that it's still too high it might be something to consider. How would his son feel in a locker room if he had less than what the other kids had? Take the old argument and flip it around to today's realities...
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:18 PM
 
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I was going to just do whatever my husband wanted... "he has the penis." Then I started reading. Really, even over all the other long-term stuff (that I totally agree with right now, just didn't really *care* for lack of a better term back then), I didn't want my newborn undergoing surgery... and I didn't want any chance that it would screw up our breastfeeding relationship (which can happen from the shock of the surgery).

My MIL had 3 kids... two boys. DH is circed, BIL is not. I asked her what she would do if she had a third, and she said she'd circ in a heartbeat. That got me thinking that I would just go ahead and do it. But then I started thinking about the stories of BIL growing up. He had horrible "bathroom problems" - holding his poop until he would get sick, over and over again, until he was about 8 or 10. I thought about why this was... Then MIL said something along the lines of how it's such a hassle to have to retract the skin at every diaper change and bath and clean it out and everything. I remembered reading that forced retraction can be extremely painful (like pulling back your fingernail), and that he probably hated going to the bathroom because he had such painful memories of clean-up, so to speak.

Really, what made the decision for me was this article (http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html). My Bradley instructor was going to lend me a book by Fleiss, but another mom in my class due WELL before me asked if she could borrow it when I was done - so I gave it to her first and found this article.

I agree with what the others said... find out why your husband thinks it's a good idea, then debunk. In the end with us, I just told my husband that there was something in me that just couldn't let my tiny newborn go off for surgery as soon as he left the only place he knew and felt safe for the last 40 weeks... and he said okay. Personally, I'm really glad we chose not to circ. I have a few friends who decided to circ, and all of them have said that if they had another son they wouldn't do it again, even though the boys would look different.

Here's all the links that I've collected. I know the aforementioned movie is in here somewhere. Personally, I'd save that as the last resort "big gun" for your hubby if discussion doesn't work. It isn't pretty at all.

http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/nc-press.htm
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/shorthis.htm
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/
http://www.cirp.org/
http://www.intact.ca/vidintro.htm
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/fleiss.htm
http://www.nocirc.org/
http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/FAQ/
http://www.icgi.org/Downloads/Full_Disclosure.pdf
http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm
http://www.circumstitions.com/Different.html
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe4/
http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_hiv.html
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeful1
"My concern also lies with whether or not he would be shunned or made fun of at school. I know kids can be cruel...."

" I am concerned about infection because my nephew wasn't circ'ed and he apparently wasn't cleaning well enough (tmi... sorry) and when he was 10yrs old had to go get a circ done."
Well in the US the rate of Circ is down to about 50/50 as I understand it... Here in Canada about 90% are left intact.... if you are in a place in the country that has a higher rate of circ you can just explain to your son that he was born perfect and didn't need cosmetic surgery to amputate a very useful and funtioning part of his penis...

As for infection... that is not a reason to circ... antibiotics and ointments will usually clear that up and it ios not a reason to circ...
Also... could it be that he was retracted too early and that was the cause of infection? or that he wasn't shown the proper way to wash?

Please check out the Case against Circ board and the great blog posted earlier...

and like Sheacoby said.... he can always choose to do it for himself if he wants to...

 
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:25 PM
 
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My husband used to think he wanted any sons he would have to be circumcised like he is. I found the following poem (here I think) and showed it to him (I myself couldn't even read very far without feeling sick). It is a poem about a mother's love for her newborn son interspersed with a medical description of a circumcision. After he read it he said our sons would remain intact. DS born in Jan is intact!

Dear Son
________________________________________
I am so elated that you have joined us and I was given the opportunity to love you, cherish you and teach you. You are the most beautiful baby and I want nothing but the best for you.

Quote:
This is a Circumstraint. It has Velcro straps to restrain the baby's arms and legs so that he cannot move.

The moment I looked into your eyes I knew you were my son. Your soft, newborn hair, the smell of your just birthed flesh - you are truly the most beautiful work of art ever created; created by your father and I.

Quote:
The area is prepared with Betadine, an antiseptic. . .A surgical drape is placed over the baby.

I have counted your fingers and your toes. I have taken note of the beautiful blue eye color you have been born with; wondering what they will eventually be. Your little ears are so soft and so perfect.

Quote:
. . .grasp
the foreskin with forceps, and widen the opening.
Daddy's nose, mommy's lips, grandpa's chin - you are a collage of our family's love. In every part of you I can see "us".

Quote:
The foreskin is normally attached to the glans by a membrane called the synechia. The glans and inner lining of the foreskin are still developing in the young child. During circumcision, the synechia must be torn apart. Naturally, this is painful.

When I think of you my heart fills with joy. The amazing task you gave my body and the beauty that it was able to fulfill your needs. I've already nurtured you, nurished you and loved you while never seeing you. Today, I see and am in awe at your being.

Quote:
The foreskin is clamped. A slit is made in the dorsal side of the foreskin.

I love you my son and will forever protect you.

Quote:
The slit is separated and the foreskin is laid back, exposing the raw and bleeding glans.

I will keep you out of harms way.

Quote:
A PlastiBell of appropriate size is slipped over the glans, and the foreskin is laid over it.

You are perfect.

Quote:
A ligature is tied in the ridge of the bell, as tightly as possible around the foreskin. Oozing will occur if the ligature is loose.

When you cry, I will cuddle; when you hurt, I will comfort.

Quote:
After one or two minutes to allow for crush, the foreskin is sliced off at the distal edge of the ligature using a knife or scissors. The surgeon trims as much tissue as possible to reduce the amount of necrotic tissue and the possibility of infection. The handle of the bell is snapped off at this time.

Unconditional love

Quote:
The rim of tissue will become necrotic (dead) and separate with the bell in 5 to 10 days. Occasionally, edema (swelling) will trap the plastic ring on the shaft of the penis. In this case it's usually necessary to cut off the ring, using a guide and ring cutter, although application of ice will sometimes reduce edema enough to remove the ring.
Circumcision removes (on average) one third of the penile skin system (sensitive inner and outer preputial layers), including the peripenic dartos muscle, the frenar band, and part of the frenulum.


Doesn't make sense, does it?

Circumcision is not a loving welcome into the world.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sheacoby
This is a really good reason to leave your son as he will be born and then when he's grown he can get circed if he wants to.
I thought about that.... More than likely it's what I'll do. Let it be up to him, besides, it's his body.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paxye
As for infection... that is not a reason to circ... antibiotics and ointments will usually clear that up and it ios not a reason to circ...
Also... could it be that he was retracted too early and that was the cause of infection? or that he wasn't shown the proper way to wash?
I think the docs took the easy way out and probably moved forward with their own beliefs (i.e. the boy should have been circumcised anyway) and told my dad he had to be circ'd. My father raised my sister's child (weird). More than likely, he wasn't shown how to wash properly.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:33 PM
 
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It's funny, isn't it, how so many guys are worried that their sons will look different; maybe they haven't seen as many penises as me (ok, that sounds worse than it is), but I can tell ya, none of them looked exactly the same anyway, circed or no...Why would we want our children to have identical genitalia? we don't ask dr's to give them all identical noses at 3 days after birth...

oh, and just how much time do people spend in the bathroom looking at each others penises anyway?
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:37 PM
 
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I like a reply that a mom armed her ds with if ever he got a comment from a classmeate etc about being intact...
something like....

"and WHY are you looking at my penis?"

 
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Old 06-27-2006, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You ladies are wonderful and so funny. DH rational is the it's healthier rationale (untrue, clearly). I've started emailing him a bunch of articles to read (emailing them so that he doesn't feel that I'm standing over him breathing down his neck and he can read them whenever he wants). The basis for the it's healthier idea is that Dr. Drew on loveline once said that it was (therefore it is?) and that all parents should circ their boys, and that my DD (dear dad or dumb dad : ) oblivious to the circ. issue that is going on btwn DH & I was talking about when my intact brother was a toddler and got sand under his foreskin and how it got irritated. I'm a lawyer by trade so of course I know that I can present him with a lot of persuasive material and make him change his mind...but he's a scientist (biochemistry PhD) so I have to present information that is scientific methody and not blatantly advocating just one side. It's just hard emotionally to have this divide w/ my DH right now (hormones...). I just cannot imagine sending our beautiful baby boy to get snipped, go into shock, bleeding, scabing, being traumatized and creating bf'ing issues potentially all for a unwarranted cosmetic procedure. Thanks again for all your help and support ladies - YOU ROCK!
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Old 06-27-2006, 10:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BabyBumblebee
It's funny, isn't it, how so many guys are worried that their sons will look different
And they seem to forget that for a good long while, their son won't have HAIR down there, and that's probably the first difference the son is going to notice!

I like the response Paxye posted about "Why are you looking at my penis?" though... I'll have to remember that for DS, since most of the boys I know of are circ'd around here.

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Old 06-28-2006, 05:54 PM
 
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My dh was leaning toward circ with our first. He knew I didn't want it, but I decided to trust that he would do the right thing, and told him it was up to him, but that he would have to take the baby to get it done, and take care of all diapers because it would upset me too much. I then just said small 'tidbits' of information during my pregnancy (we found out it was a boy), like over 75% of canadian boys are left intact (we now live in GA, and that is NOT the case here...), canadian medicare will not cover the cost because it is completely cosmetic, etc..... About 3 weeks before the baby was born, I said "did you find a doctor to do circ" Dh said "no, we'll leave it intact." I smiled and said thanks. Truth be told, I now know I wouldn't have let him go through with it, but giving him a bit of decision making power was what he needed since I made every decision about the pregnancy and delivery. It worked.

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Old 06-28-2006, 07:54 PM
 
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I'm having the same trouble with my DH.

His reason for having it done are: 1) so our son's penis will "look like DH's" and 2) because 'everyone else does it'.

My responses are: 1) "who cares if our son's penis looks like yours - how many times in the last 34 years have you seen your father's penis?" and 2) "no, 'everyone else' does not circ and even if they did, what does 'everyone else' have to do with what we choose to do about anything (not just circ)?"

Ultimately, we will have to wait until our child is born before we can really duke it out over this topic as we are not finding out the sex of the baby ahead of time. That way, I can try to GIP as much as possible and not stress over a DS being circ. I can hope for a girl only so that we don't have to face this issue; I'm willing to fight if we do have a boy but I'd rather wait until the baby is born.

I recently changed my username, but I still say "Hello" to all those who know me in real life! Hi P, S, T and K!
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Old 06-28-2006, 08:12 PM
 
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Just a bit of info here on the care of the intact penis: Here is how it is done.
1.wash like a finger
2. NEVER PULL THE SKIN BACK TO CLEAN UNDER IT NEVER ALLOW ANYONE ELSE TO DO SO.
3. dry him off put diaper back on.
In the bath just swish it around a little bit.

The foreskin may retract naturally as late as adulthood and that is OK. As for cleaning it after they become retractable. They should be the only ones to clean it this way. Retract, rince, replace. Simple as that.
I highly recommend you come over to the case against circ forum and read all the info there. Especially the one intitled a warning to parents of intact sons.

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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Old 06-28-2006, 10:50 PM
 
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Can you post the link to the case agains circ forum? may be prego brain, but I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:12 PM
 
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Here u go http://www.mothering.com/discussions...splay.php?f=44

 
SAHMlady.gifread.giflovin' trekkie.giffan intactivist.gifwinner.jpg to loveeyes.gifenergy.gifDD 10/00 & superhero.gifmoon.gifDS 10/04 ribbonpb.gifIf your ds is intact, keep him safe, visit the Case Against Circ forumnocirc.gifCirc, a personal choice, Your sonsyes.gifbrokenheart.gif11/98brokenheart.gif6/99ribbonbrown.gifanti-tobaccoribbonyellow.gifThyroid cancer survivor. With cat.gif& goldfish.gif & (Boxer)dog2.gif wishing 4 whale.gif&ribbonwhite.gifsigncirc1.gifselectivevax.gifdelayedvax.gif

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