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#1 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know a bunch of people that are pregnant right now, and they're really starting to annoy me. One just had her baby. She was induced on her due date, and after less than six hours of labor, she had a c-section cause "that huge baby just isn't going to come out." It was barely seven lbs and she is not a small woman. Then another who's due date was sep. 9 till the 20 week ultrasound when they moved it to the 1st (I didn't think they could do that at the later ultrasound), just had her membranes stripped yesterday (the 30th) cause she was ready to go. I know that it's tiring to be pregnant, but there's probably a reason that the baby's not come out yet... it's not ready! I mean they are inducing her potentially more than 10 days early! I'm just really frustrated, and not really with the women. I DO think that it's your responsability to educate yourself so you can make the best choices, but over all, I'm so irritated with the drs for pushing this stuff. I mean these women are perfectly capeable of having babies the normal way in their own time. But the doctors push these interventions, and they lead to c-sections cause the baby's not ready, or the doctor isn't patient. But instead of explaining that to these women, the doctors make it sound like the woman's body was incapeable. "you just can't have a baby that big." or "your body just isn't going into labor on it's own." I mean they're not even over due!!! and the didn't have any complications till the doctors started messing with them! ARGH!!!! But the thing is, this it totally normal and socially acceptable. Those dr.s will just keep on doing what they're doing, cause it's okay. And I find that just wrong.
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#2 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 12:34 PM
 
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I hear ya. And I don't get why it's perfectly acceptable, even expected, by our society to have a baby 2 weeks before the due date, but not a single.day.after.
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#3 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by _betsy_
I hear ya. And I don't get why it's perfectly acceptable, even expected, by our society to have a baby 2 weeks before the due date, but not a single.day.after.
ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT POINT!

It's nuts. Due dates should be excoriated from our vocabulary. It sets everyone up for feeling like there's some ultimate 'finish line' that must be crossed by a particular date, or we have failed.

Whenever anyone asks when I'm due, I always say 'december' and won't be more specific no matter how much they pester. With MIL, who is determined to have a 'real' date, I say December 31st. Technically my 'date' is weeks earlier, but she doesn't need to know that.

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#4 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 02:23 PM
 
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I am totally there with you on the frustration. My very good friend had her third child on Tuesday. She was induced at the hospital, 1 day BEFORE her EDD. She had decided to do things in this manner months ago, as her husband has panic attacks when she is in labor, and wanted her to get an epidural. She labored and delivered BOTH of her previous children in less than 6 hours with no medical intervention of any sort, so it's not like she has a history of long labors. Being the insensitive twit that I am, when she told me of her plan to do things in this way so her husband would be more comfortable, I said "Humph. No vagina? No vote." See I am a twit.

The good news is her baby girl is healthy and there were no complications. She did NOT have the epidural, as from the time the OB broke her water (when she was at 2 cms) to the time she was fully dilated was 20 mintues. No time for the drugs.

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#5 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 02:52 PM
 
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I know a woman who is scheduling an elective c-section in mid-November and she's due in early December because she just doesn't want to go through labor. I can't imagine wanting to go that early, let alone scheduling a c-section I didn't need!!
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#6 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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That is frustrating, but we also have to point our frustration at the medical community, which fosters these beliefs (or i should say lack of belief in the woman's ability to bear her kids). Many women are not ready to give up their trust and faith in the medical community to "take care of them" It is a huge step to take, and we are conditioned from a young age to believe in the power of the doctors. And yes it is power, when in a physician patient relationship, there is a power imbalance, not in the favor of the woman. There is so much wrong with the OB system right now. I think of all the women I know who have had some sort of trauma associated with their births. It is really sad. And I also realize that many/most do not have access/info/encouragment to seek other routes of care In many places, midwives are shut out of access to HMO patients ( for example), and have other restricitons placed on their care. It is a double battle to fight.

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#7 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 02:56 PM
 
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I totally understand, but I try to remember what it was like when I believed what doctors told me. Like I had a doctor tell me when I was 21 that I could never get pregnant without fertility drugs because I have benign cysts (as do many many MANY women). Or like watching doctors lie to my mother about her condition when she was dying of cancer. Until you actually experience it and then are able to know for a fact that the doctors, however well-intentioned, LIED to you... it is hard to believe.

My SIL had three unnecessary c-sections. THREE. And she still maintains they were medically necessary because she just *knows* her OB wouldn't lie to her. Most people are so used to believing everything their doctors say that they don't even think to question. I didn't, until the evidence was SO OBVIOUS it was impossible not to. But once you do, it's like you never look back.... from then on, you become like us: questioning EVERYTHING and researching everything yourself, and not understanding why others don't do the same!!!! :

Hopefully they will all come around eventually. But honestly I am not sure, looking back, if I would've just believed someone who told me "Your doctor is not being honest with you!" It is SO ingrained in us to BELIEVE doctors. I wish I knew of a way to break through that WITHOUT having to have someone have a negative experience though.
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#8 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 02:58 PM
 
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Ha, NaughtyDingo and I are on the same wavelength on that one
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#9 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 03:13 PM
 
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I know of a few friends and relatives who were induced, had an epidural, 'failed to progress', were told that their bodies weren't capable of delivering the baby or the baby just wasn't going to fit, and ended up having c-sections. Went on to have c-sections with their next babies, scheduled early of course.

Drives me crazy.

However, it is so common. When I had my dd, I had only read What to Expect When You Are Expecting for preparation. OMG. LOL. This time, I've researched childbirth and wish I had known everything I know now, then.
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#10 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 04:08 PM
 
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I kwym...I like the 'no vagina, no vote' thing Miranda

Mommy to five wonderful earthlings, and one on the way supporter Humble Wife and Mother Learning to live through Jesus!
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#11 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 04:24 PM
 
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I think every pregnant woman should be given a copy of Henci Goer's Thing Woman's Guide to a Better Birth, and actually read! I hear everyone's frustrations in this thread . Luckily no one in my family has had a c-section, and I hope they never do. I have 5 sisters, and 3 have had kids already, but a few of their pregnancies were induced.

Naughty Dingo - ITA with your whole post!!

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#12 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just want to say sometimes, "yeh wow, it's so amazing that there are as many humans as there are today, since they didn't have pitocin and c-sections, I bet most women and babies died. It's amazing human kind survived that for so long."

I mean isn't it logical that with the advent of obstatricians, women didn't suddenly evolve backwards and NEED all the crap they're told they need?

A c-section has a 20% risk of infection. That is huge! not to mention it's a major abdominal surgery, and has a recovery time much longer than a normal birth. So why do it if you don't absolutely have to? That's just a crazy risk to take just because you don't want to go through birth!

I just got a call from another person today who told me she's due sep. 20th but already has scheduled her section for earlier because she has people to help with her other child on that day. I just don't get it.
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#13 of 24 Old 09-01-2006, 04:59 PM
 
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It is an interesting thing though, and my evolution in thinking has taught me much. My background is in science and medicine and I always felt very informed in my choices, and thought I was satisfied with them. I did have a feeling that my emotional needs were unmet in the medical OB relationships that i had but I never gave those needs much cred.

It wasn't until my care providers actually showed themselves to be less informed than I, and managed my "Case" in a way that I would never manage any of my own cases, that I came to a realization that I already possesed the abilities and confidence in my own self to make my own choices and be able to take responsiblity of myself and work with the gentle guidance of someone like a midwife.

For me, it was being able to see, on a professional level, that those who I entrusted my care to really weren't on top of things and they did not seem to know so much more than I.

I wonder, what does a woman do who doesn't have a medical education? For me, even with one, I still felt like I needed to listen and trust my care providers because that is the nature of the relationship KWIM? It is hard to sift through information, especially info that contradicts what you are assuming as truth.

My last two births were hospital births. They were very nice and i felt very comfortable there. I had a feeling of "No matter what happens, they will be able to deal with it and keep us safe". Well of course, that is flawed thinking. My labors were both pretty unattended, and there recently in my city, therevwas a death of a Mama in labor when she was administered her epidural anesthetic IV by mistake. Mistakes happen and are more likely the more stuff is being done to you. But it was easier for me emotionally to be able to believe in my "Safety" because it eased my fears. It was hard to take ownership of those fears, and all of the decisions but ultimately it has led me to a satisfying place.

I think for many women, this is a hard process to go through and a difficult (though wonderful) place to end up in. I think for many it is impossible because they don't have the info, the support, the community which will encourage and support her choices.

I think one of the things we can all do to contribute to a solution, is to support pro-midwife legislation when it comes up in your areas. When we have more independent midwives that are made accesable to "the masses" then we will see progress. Write letters to your health care plans and encourage them to cover out of network care providers, write to your legislators if there is pending legislation for or against the scope of your midwives practices, encourage your hospitals to provide NCB and birthing from within classes. Encourage the hospitals to provide a doula listing etc.

It is just letter writing but if these organizations hear from enough people (health care subscribers) they may have to think about it.

Like someone already said, it is hard to change someone's paradigm that has been instilled via lifelong reinforcment, but when we "Normalize" (isnt that ironic?) midwive based care, then that will become much less of a leap for a woman who might have previously not known or made that choice.

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#14 of 24 Old 09-02-2006, 06:04 PM
 
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Personally I'm too wrapped up in my own life to care what how otehr women go about their pregnancies. Then again I don't ask specifics either..
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#15 of 24 Old 09-03-2006, 01:51 AM
 
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I've kind of been going out of my way to avoid other pg women this time around, at least the ones due around the same time as me, because it just isn't worth the stress for me.
Even so, yesterday in the grocery store I walked past a woman talking on her cell phone about how she had scheduled her section already because she didn't want to be like her friend who was going to have to have one because she was so close to due and the doctor was afraid her uterus wouldn't be able to hold out.
blaaaahhh...
The brainwashing is everywhere!
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#16 of 24 Old 09-03-2006, 11:37 AM
 
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I absolutely believe birth is a miracle and the vast majority of women do not need any intervention. On the other hand, the neonatal care available for babies has significantly improved a child's chance to thrive. I mention that to point out that I do not have a problem with medical care if it is needed.

Did you know that the National c-section rate is over 25%? If 25% of women needed a c-section to bring their child into the world do you really think our race would have thrived throughout history? Also, did you know that the new "popular" trend in Hollywood is to induce at 36-37 weeks to prevent the mother from having additional weight gain and stretch marks?

I hope we can turn this tide back to what is naturally best for the babies and save interventions for when they are truly needed.
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#17 of 24 Old 09-03-2006, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooking4Love
Also, did you know that the new "popular" trend in Hollywood is to induce at 36-37 weeks to prevent the mother from having additional weight gain and stretch marks?

I hope we can turn this tide back to what is naturally best for the babies and save interventions for when they are truly needed.
:

It's disgusting that by doing so they ALSO prevent the baby from having much-needed additional weight gain!
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#18 of 24 Old 09-05-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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I think society as a whole needs to come around on this topic. I am hesitant to dump the bulk of the blame on any single group of people (mothers, docs, insurers, etc), but everyone shares some of the responsibility.

But, the good news is recent articles like this, published in today's New York Times, that will hopefully make more & more people realize that while c/s, as the major abdominal emergency surgery it was designed to be, is remarkably safe, it is not w/o significant risk:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/05/he...=1&oref=slogin

Obviously, in cases where there is a true emergency/medical indication for a c/s, this is in an invaluable procedure. I truly hope that more people will realize that when all is normal & going well, it is the riskier option.
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#19 of 24 Old 09-05-2006, 09:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels
I totally understand, but I try to remember what it was like when I believed what doctors told me. Like I had a doctor tell me when I was 21 that I could never get pregnant without fertility drugs because I have benign cysts (as do many many MANY women). Or like watching doctors lie to my mother about her condition when she was dying of cancer. Until you actually experience it and then are able to know for a fact that the doctors, however well-intentioned, LIED to you... it is hard to believe.

It is SO ingrained in us to BELIEVE doctors. I wish I knew of a way to break through that WITHOUT having to have someone have a negative experience though.
You are so right. I haven't entirely trusted doctors since age 12 when my dad got sick with a mystery illness complete with seizures. I remember they kept sending him to psychiatrists, telling him it's all in his head. It wasn't: The illness was a severe reaction to a certain brand of high blood pressure meds. And it only took my family a decade to sort out the truth on our own. :

In many cases it's not that they outright lie. It's just that they still don't understand the human body well enough despite all the bright and shiny machines and breakthroughs.
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#20 of 24 Old 09-05-2006, 09:57 PM
 
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my sister had her labor induced because she carried 2 weeks beyond her delivery date. The contractions came on so powerfully and erratically that she was miserable! She had no time to rest inbetween contractions.

When they finally gave her the epidural she wanted, she couldn't feel to push. She did deliver vaginally, but after watching this I could never ever want to induce labor. It was scary! She wanted to rip the iv out of her arm--because she knew it was the source of the petocin and the cause of the pain!

After two relatively short labors I hope to not have an epidural this time. I don't think that they are evil, but I do see how some hospitals push them on people. I think that the pain of labor is healthy in a real and true sense. But I would never induce labor unless the health of the baby was in question and then I wouldn't hesitate.

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#21 of 24 Old 09-06-2006, 12:40 PM
 
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I went to two OBs when I was pregnant with my son. the first never gave me like ANY info...like "do not take advil, heroin, and drink" nor "here is my emergency # incase of problems"

Plus, she would run out of the room while we were still talking!
she was going to induce me at 41w, according to the oh-so-wonderful 28 day chart ALL obs use. Putting my due date at 1/23 when it should have been more like 1/27.
meaning she would have induced me when I was DUE....

Second OB told me the DAY after my EDD I would be induced with pitocin. so 1/24. *headshake*

he also said I could be induced on any day after 37w....I could pick!! OMG! yay! *stab*

My SIL just had her second baby delivered. First she went into labor super early around 22w or so. They did a c-sect. WTF? why?? why go in if you don't WANT the baby born??
Seriously...you can't use that "baby was too big" excuse there...
The baby, sadly, didn't make it. He lived just 8hrs.

This time, she had a cerclage because her cervix was "a little thin" on ONE us. Perfect every other time.
*eyeroll*
Then she was hospitalized because her BS went up to 400. Seriously. but this was surprising somehow. nobody noticed her having sugars in her WEEKLY exams, nor her USs every 2 weeks, nor all the blood tests.
And suddenly this all made sense her looking bigger than me at 28w (second fullterm baby) at only 10w. she had "tons of extra water"

again...uhm...nobody noticed??

she was actually all dated up too, for her elective section because of her prior c-sect. They did a vertical since she was only 20 weeks or so, on her uterus.
Even before the cerclage, they had her scheduled. *sigh*

A friend of mine had her baby 3w after me.
She was due EXACTALLY 4w (2/28) after me.
they scheduled the induction because her OB had a vacation the next week.
oh, and "er, the baby might be too big...he's 8lbs!!"
they told her he would be too big, and was OMFG, 8lbs!!
mind, she's shorter at 5'6 or so...but about 200lbs. not a small lady.

They pumped her with pitocin, and had the epi in before they even did THAT!
and gave her MORE medicine ontop of the epi because she was still "uncomfy"

That night 4/5 women had sections, and the only reason my friend didn't was because she wasn't a "emergency" like the other women (baby reaction to pitocin) eventho she had "failed to progress" because she'd been stuck at 4cm for hours now.
She was on the boards when her epi wore off, and all the nurses were busy with the section ladies. All the sudden she was at 10 in less than a hour. Gee...ya think??

baby was 6lbs and 18" long.

My baby was "oh, not that big....he'll be about 8lbs even" (i'm 5'9 and 140-145lbs prebaby...but huuuuge hips)

I delivered a 9lb 5oz, 22" baby in under 5hrs from start to finish.

thank GOD I went with a midwife. ugh. I would have had a section because he was "too big" because he was "late" and because my BP was 140/90.
*sigh*

which means of COURSE this baby would HAVE to be a section because there is NO WAY ON EARTH I could safely deliver a 9+lbs baby vbac!!!

: : : : :
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#22 of 24 Old 09-06-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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wow. freaky. If I didn't have the doc I have I would go with a midwife. I am really small--5'0" and usually like 120 lbs (when not pregnant!) but I have a pretty wide hips/pelvis so I haven't had trouble delivering.

How can these poor women go along with this stuff? :

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#23 of 24 Old 09-06-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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My good friend had a c-sec at 42 weeks after a failed induction attempt. Her body/cervix was not showing any signs of going into labor when they started the induction. When she called to say this, I knew she would end up with a c-sec. So sad because she really wanted a natural, vaginal birth. Then, afterwards she got a horrible infection in her incision and had to go back and have it opened and drained a couple of times. She said the pain of cleaning the infected wound was way worse than labor and it took weeks for her to heal, not to mention the emotional stress of all this with a newborn. I wish she could tell her story to all the women who want c-secs because they never want to feel labor. Oh, and after her c-sec, her doc told her that she never could've delivered her 8 lb. baby vaginally because her pelvis is too small. She is 5'11" and a big woman. It seems like so many docs give that "your pelvis is just too small" line these days.
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#24 of 24 Old 09-08-2006, 07:43 AM
 
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I know a number of women in my area who have scheduled inductions early because their doctor was going on vacation.
Just recently a woman at my DH's work gave birth after being induced at 36 1/2 weeks for this reason!!!
This just seems soooo irresponsible of the both the doctor and the mother!
Needless to say the baby was tiny.
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