|I make it clear that when the toys are picked up, we'll have snack. I don't say, "if you pick up your toys, I'll give you a treat", I just say that "I will get snacks out when the toys are picked up". Some may say there is no difference there, but to me there is|
|Originally posted by sunnmama
...That is your choice. I trust you to do the right thing and apologize when you feel ready to do so. Maybe 10 minutes later, she will go back and apologize.
Oh I so Loved reading this!!
My hope is that when DD is not put into a position where she has to defend herself, or struggle to be heard, that it will allow her to hear others (like me!).
I hope that my DD would feel really bad if she did something to hurt me, or make me lots of extra work (and not help clean up) etc. And that if I explained that to her in a non-judgemental way, that she would care enough to do something about it of her own volition.
It's so wonderful to hear this being confirmed IRL!
Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)
I find if I can do it almost first thing (while he's still kind of groggy and hasn't gotten into something) it goes a lot better. In a pinch, I will put on the TV and let him lay down in front while I dress him--he is distracted enough to be willing.
gotta go----melt down
I thought there was something horribly wrong with me as a mother... my DD screamed and cried constantly, always had to be stimulated, always needed her way, or no way -- right from birth?! -- would never, could never be coerced into ANYthing... my MIL, who has been a teacher for 25 years, can't even do child psychology or reverse psychology on her because she can literally see right through it! She calls our "bluff" every... single... time...
ITA, Piglet, that punishment seems to be about upping the ante, upping the ante, upping the ante... I will admit that one time, about a year ago, I slapped my DD's thigh. She giggled hysterically and continued the behavior.... this time, she did it with more glee and laughter than she had been doing it before!!! Once I wiped the tears outta my eyes, I saw how totally ludicrous the traditional forms of "punishment" are.
Darshani - to make a long story short, power struggles don't work with kids like these You can threaten, count, take privileges away... it really doesn't work. Take a look at my two threads here and you'll see what I mean... when my DD gets like that, and we have somewhere we have to be... ie, the doctor's office... I will start out really "light". I will sit there, file my nails, look through my planner, whatever. If she doesn't get bored from this reaction, I tell her she needs to choose whether she wants to do her carseat or if I should do it for her. I explain how we have to be there on time because....... then ask my question very calmly again. If she still refuses, I pick her up and put her in and we are on our way. I make light talk, discuss what we'll be doing after our appt., whatever, but I try to not let the screaming and yelling effect me. After you go through this for a while, she'll give up. Trust me
Like once she was trying to climb in my lap in a rough way. Not to snuggle but to bounce on me. I told her if she wasn't going to be nice she was going to be tickled. So she got tickled. Laughed but was frustrated and kept trying. I kept tickling. She got tired of trying and went on to other things after awhile.
We had a few more small power struggles and I tried very hard to give her a choice about and most of the time she chose the right thing. Once I did have to take her out of the barstool for standing on it. Gave her a choice to sit down or I would take the chair away, and I did the next time. She cried, tried and failed to drag the chair back to the bar. Said sorry. I explained what happened again to her and then paid no attention to the crying. It fizzled out in 2 min. after she realized it was not changing anything.
Resisted the carseat after the movie. She was carrying her new My Little Pony in her hand. I told her again that she could sit in her chair, or I would hold her Pony for her. She refused so I took the Pony. She cried, I said get in the chair and she did, then got her Pony back. Not sure what we would have done without the Pony but anyway, we didn't have to resort to forcing her into the seat. I think I may carry some toys/books in the car and tell her when she gets in the seat she can choose one. See if that works.
So NO time outs yesterday at all!! None so far today either. I'm really trying and she's responding so well. I think she was as tired of a grumpy mommy as I was tired of a defiant toddler. Hope it lasts. And thanks so much for the support and encouragement!
As far as the bar stool, could you have turned that "no" into a "yes"? Maybe you could have stood next to her in case she fell, or held a hand if she was okay with that? And you can tell her what you're doing - "That's a pretty tall stool, I'll be here so if you fall I can catch you and you'll be safe." - and maybe eventually she'll come get you to stand near her when she goes to climb on something tall, so she'll be safe. Rain did that at 2ish or 3ish, while other kids her age tended to wait until their parents' backs were turned and then scarmble up.
Single mom to Rain (1/93) , grad student, and world traveler
I wish i had someone walking behind me reminding me of all these great ideas everyone has given!
|but taking someone's possession away from them if they don't do what you say doesn't strike me as respectful. Likewise, tickling can be a fun game or it can be a physical intrusion on someone's body, and it didn't sound like your daughter was having fun.|
As far as the bar stool thing, she's been doing this for ages. I don't have time or energy to stand there while she eats although it's a lovely idea. She takes forever to eat sometimes. Actually for a time when she was younger we put the stools in the garage but now we feel she's old enough to learn how to use it right or lose the chance of sitting in it. We don't let her stand on the table or kitchen chairs either.
Remember, I'm almost 8 mos. pg. I just don't have the energy to always be standing up to get her off me or standing next to her chair. I was on bedrest for about 6 weeks and am just now getting back into the swing of things, slowly. My hips hurt and legs are weak so I can't stand up or walk for long periods of time, still getting stronger.
I don't mean to come off sounding grouchy and defensive here, but I guess I just know my limits. I still feel like I did better than was doing last week. No time outs in 1.5 days is quite an achievement. She's also not fighting me as much because I'm holding my ground.
She wanted cake for lunch today. I offered her some healthy choices and she cried for cake and stomped her foot. Normally I would have very little patience for this and would have snapped back or something. It probably would have resulted in me making a sandwich for her and her throwing it at me, and then a time out for that. Instead I said, "Abi, cake is not a food. It's a dessert. You need to eat some food. If you don't want a sandwich or noodles, what do you want?" She said, "A banana." Good, problem solved, no major power struggles, and we are both happy.
I'm being more consistent too, as is dh after a long talk the other night. I hope it lasts, I'm afraid to hope. But it's def. more peaceful in our house, and I'll get better at this as time goes on. I was literally beaten as a child, CPS took me away from my parents twice. So with this kind of background I'm extremely proud that I've never, ever laid a hand on my child, as has sometimes been my first impulse. But I wanted to do better than that. It's a learn-as-you-go process and I'm glad you all are here for me.
Please don't feel bad. I'm sure Dar was not trying to pick on you. I know that I've been reading this thread with so much interest. I feel like we're all in a big classroom and YOU, Darshani, have generously volunteered to be our "guinea pig". I am SURE that Dar wasn't trying to pick on you, but to explain to the "class" of eager thread-readers how some of the things you did might be changed.
You are amazing and patient and so wonderful a mother to be willing to bare it all for us and learn along with us!!
Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)
You are a wonderful woman and mommy to not have spanked your little one with the background you've had. I'm sure its challenging at times. So many people resort to the way they were treated as kids and it takes a strong person to turn that around.
And happy birthday to Abi!
WOW, life is so much better around here with my attitude adjustment. Dh started barking at her and threatening time-outs and I was like, "Honey we are on a roll." So he got down to her level, touched her arm, made eye contact, and gave her 2 choices and she responded. I think it surprised him that she didn't fight and cooperated and hopefully that will inspire him to try to be more patient in the future.
Thanks again SO much for all the support and encouragement. It's amazing what a little patience on my part has done for our home life. I've been feeling better physically, that's part of it. Made it 31, almost 32 weeks pg. Doctor told me today he was secretly worried that I wouldn't be able to carry the pg this far but I have, and if all goes well may make it full term. Even if baby's born now she will be okay. Spend some time in NICU but probably be okay. Great news!
This has been a very interesting thread - I was going to post the biggest thing I've learned, but I think you're realizing it - that discipline issues are pretty much a change in your OWN thinking and responses. Of course, we're going to have moods, and we're going to be inconsistent, but most often it's not our child's behaviour, but our response to it. If we have a plan ahead of time about how to deal with a situation it is much more likely to go well. Now, wouldn't we like to prevent all behavioural problems? Sure! But our goal is to teach acceptable alternatives, and it's not always going to prevent the probs, although it does often minimize them.
I liked Dar's suggestion of finding alternatives - I do this ALL the time with dd. Sometimes it's hard for me, who is still holding onto some punitive-minded things from my upbringing, b/c I feel like "she's getting away with stuff" and not directly obeying. I'm glad you've found that helpful, to give alternatives or two choices. It does become frustrating when my dd is indecisive, though, LOL!
As an example of alternatives - dd always needs cream on her bum (either b/c of a rash or b/c she wants it). This is fine, the part that drives me nuts is when she sticks her whole hand in it and wipes it everywhere, making my life more difficult. I tried warning her it was cold, I tried asking her to keep her hands up, etc. etc. - you know what worked? Her standing up, bending down and LOOKING at it before the dipe goes up - LOL! I think she just wanted to make sure it was there...end of power struggle (only took me about 9 mos. to figure that one out!!)
I'm also of the "get up off your butt" philosophy to get things done. When I find myself repeatedly asking her to stop something I realize that *I* need to make that happen, i.e., if she's banging the glass stereo doors open and shut I have to go over there and help her stop, sometimes physically moving her hands (not roughly, just helping her) while explaining what I need. Sometimes dangerous things, medicines and whatnot do need to be immediately removed, and she will be unhappy about that. We are not always going to be able to make our child happy, and that's something I've had to realize - just b/c my child is unhappy doesn't mean I'm punishing her. She may feel upset and angry, and that's ok! We have a screaming pillow to help mommy's ears.
The other thing I wanted to comment on is be sure to expect changes in your ability and tolerance - my parenting is directly influenced by how much sleep I've had the night before! Seriously. Also the time of the month, etc. In those situations, realize your patience is low and you may not be able to parent as ideally as you'd like. As you've already done, realize that you've made changes and improvements, and be able to move on.
I don't think the question has been answered, but TCS is a parenting philosophy called Taking Children Seriously. It is non-coercive. I don't know a whole lot about it except for a few people online whom I've met and a couple articles I've read. I parent non-punitively, which means I don't (or ideally don't) use punishments, shaming, yelling etc., but instead a lot of prevention, teaching acceptable alternatives, giving of limited choices, some experiencing of natural consequences (not for an infant/baby, though), etc. For those who are interested, see the yahoogroup PositiveParenting-Discipline. I, too, am constantly learning, but have found, like I said at the beginning, that the biggest change has been in ME. :P
Meghan, mom to 11yo, 8yo, and 3yo
|Originally posted by USAmma
Wow, she's actually getting more and more cooperative just through me talking things over with her.
Even if baby's born now she will be okay. Spend some time in NICU but probably be okay. Great news!
Our child is younger—only 19 months. But we have found that for some tasks and procedures, it helps a lot to let one or more of her dolls or stuffed animals go through the motions first, with the child’s help and inspection, of course. We’re not sure why this helps—if it’s the opportunity to see the whole picture and make sure that the operation is safe, or maybe it’s just that it turns the whole endeavor into a game and so she’s more inclined to be cooperative. If she’s doubtful about some foods, monkey can be the royal tester and if he survives, maybe she’ll try. Before she gets into her pjs, we’ll change one of her doll’s clothes. In the morning we reverse the process. For teeth brushing, we start out with me or dad, then we move onto a particular bear (bear has no visible teeth—it’s all pretend) and only after bear do we start helping the child. Sometimes we return to bear several more times before child is done. She’s using the toilet now, often, but usually it’s one or two dolls first and then at least one duck before she’s ready to hop on herself and we know that sometimes she wets while she’s waiting in line behind the ducks. But we’d rather have that happen sometimes than have her stressed about the toilet. This may seem like it takes a lot more time—but, then again, so does chasing a child around the house with a toothbrush, which we’ve never had to do. Sometimes we badger the dolls and animals or play out little disasters with them—like “Don’t fall in, Duck!” as duck slips part way down into the toilet and we catch her—or “Now, Bear, you know you have to open wider—wider, I say, you Bear, and you better listen to me.” We exagerate and talk more forcefully to them then we ever would to her and she loves seeing them get bossed around and then, usually flies through the procedure with great good grace herself once the dolls or animals have made it through and caught all the flack and made all the mistakes…, and survived.
I don’t know how we could translate this into a situation like that on the plane. She flies with one of her dolls. I could have lectured the doll strongly on plane safety and politeness, and have the doll talk back to me, but I don’t know if that would work. Both parents being present, I may have offered for one to switch places with the passenger in front to take the blows—though that would have left that unfortunate person to still deal with the screaming in close proximity and left the other parent in the middle without a close ally. Hmmm, maybe I’d let that parent be dad. I’d rather be kicked in the kidneys than have to sit next to a melt-down. And, then I could pretend, a little, like it wasn’t my kid at all! Just for a few seconds. Then, probably, I’d try to see if a game of peek-a-boo or "secret messages" or coded taps back and forth would bridge the divide and restore peace.
For those mamas having trouble getting children to sit in carseats, try taking them to the car seat knowitall at your local police station. We sit in carseats for safety AND because it's the LAW. Maybe seeing an officer and getting praised by an officer will help your cause.
Anyway, if I put him in his seat and he resists me, I take him out, snuggle him close and talk it through. "Erik, it's time to go to the store, and mom needs you to sit in Erik's seat. Are you ready?" if he says no, I tell him "I'll hold you until you're ready" At first, he would fight me, and I would tell him "I know you're frustrated, you don't want to get in. But it's time to go to the store, remember...so it's time to get in Erik's seat. Are you ready?" If he says no, I just start a commentary about the store "we're going to the store, to get yogurt, and applesauce, and bananas, and apples...are you ready?" If he says yes, and then fights me still, I just repeat until he's ready. Of course, he is spirited but not as high on persistence, so that helps, I know. But it's soooo effective for us! He doesn't really fight it much at all anymore, because he knows what to expect. (BTW, he's a BIG 2, so he is heavy...if it gets too much, I squat down and hold him...)
I love reading threads like this because I learn so many different ideas to try when we encounter similar problems.
I found a cute magnetic "Responsibility Chart" with many tasks on it that would apply to preschoolers. You can customize it and the tiles with the tasks all have pictures so pre-readers can understand them. Then as each task is completed the child can place a magnetic sticker in the right place. This thing has been great! She is so motivated to get those stickers. Now she is more than cooperating with picking up toys before bed, getting her pj's on, and brushing her teeth. The tooth brushing thing was a big struggle before. Not the actual brushing but her turning into a cat and mouse chase until she decided she was ready to brush.
There's one generic "be nice" one that covers everything from hitting to cooperating with the carseat, and a "sharing" one, and I have the power to remove those stickers if necessary and she has to earn them back. She hates that and all I have to do is ask if she wants me to remove the sticker if she doesn't get in her carseat and she scrambles right in. Not sure how long it will last but it's working great for now at least. At the end of the day if all of them are there across the column she gets a quarter for her bank. Thought I might want to start introducing allowance in a very simple and modest way. Perhaps in a couple weeks I'll take her to the store and she can buy some play-doh or paints or something.
Another thing is today I realized she's about outgrown the 5 pt. harness on her car/booster seat so I ran the regular seatbelt over it. Oh boy did she feel special. She said to me, "Mommy I'm growing bigger and bigger!" And gave no trouble at all. Probably because it's a new thing. Again we'll see how long that lasts.
You are doing amazing mama with your beautiful spirited dd and the new babe growing, almost ready to see the world!
Just thought I would throw that out there
I have to agree. Sometimes, if I want DD to do something and she's a little slow getting moving, it really helps to take Elmo and Nadia (her dolly) and start them on the process, then she quite quickly runs to join in.
By the way
Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)
It is trial and error, think and rethink but some key things have been said here:
1) Be consistent
2) A shift in the parent's attitude can make all the difference
3) Stay as calm as you can (often very hard!)
So glad things are getting better for you! You're doing great.
The one thing I would add is don't be afraid to do what you need to do to address your daughter's behavior in public. Many in our culture are not supportive of parents doing what is right for their children--I've even heard of strangers giving a child whatever they were throwing a fit to get in a store. People who would rather see you give in to your child than deal with the inconvenience of your child's response to not getting what she wants do not have your child's best interests at heart. They are more concerned with their own immediate convenience than helping you raise a child who can handle herself appropriately. There are probably many more silent bystanders who understand that the tantrum at the checkout line is better than giving the child the candy bar...
OP, You are amazing! I’m so glad to hear that you were able to effectively change the situation for the better. That means that there’s hope for us when things get rough.
My daughter is only 2 and 3months so we don’t have quite the same challenges but I imagine some are coming…soon, which is why I’m here poking around.
I do have one thing to add. When it comes to “discipline” in public, I continue with whatever approach is working at home. I really think the public can/should deal with my dedication to being consistent with my child because not doing so is going to result in a more “poorly behaved” child down the road, kwim?
I hope you are feeling well.
Edited to add:
About the bribery, I do thing there are different ways of looking at bribery, furthermore, I think that some things should not even fall into that category. I tell my daughter she can take out some more toys after some other toys have been put back. This is not bribery IMO. I don’t know if this is relevant (I know the example I used isn’t great) but I thought I’d include it.
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But overall our family is a lot happier. Dd has become much less aggressive with other kids recently too, perhaps because we are trying to model good behavior to her and encouraging her if she is good. But like I said I still have my bad days and so does she.
I had to put the 5 pt. harness back on the carseat because we had a couple days where she thought it would be fun to get out of her seat while I was driving. I checked the manual and we have 2 more inches still. Another thing was something my doula showed me during a visit to my house when Abi was being difficult about the carseat (which is less and less often). Instead of me counting to three as a warning, it's now a game. Let's see if you can make it to your seat before I get to three. I keep the door closed, then say, "Mark, get set, GO!" and open the door and she scrambles in giggling. This works well for reminding her to use the potty or putting on clothes too.
almost 35 weeks-- in the home stretch!
Thanks for starting off this very useful thread and following it with updates on what worked and what did not. That takes a lot of time and effort when you are in your final stretch of pregnancy.
I have a ds who is checking his limits too (started after he turned 3 yrs) though i would not call him defiant. I have also experienced that fighting back, yelling or threatening (i am very weak when it comes to being punitive) only seems to encourage them to up the ante!! Yes, it is very difficult to be calm all the time but the cooperation and the pleasant feeling that prevails at home makes it worth putting all our energies into the positive methods!!
Thanks to all the moms here who are sharing their wisdom here in this thread. It really helps make the world a better place.
Love and Peace!
I have to whisper b/c we just had a friend and her 2.5 yr old dd move in with us, so any fun that can't be shared, we keep quiet! That is our current challenge- dd has an instant sister, who is only 8 mths younger than her. She is great, but it is a big change from only me and her and her having full run of the house, to 2 other people, 1 of whom is serious competition and who she must share many of her toys with.
I wanted to also offer you encouragement on the sharing/playing nicely thing I think you mentioned. My dd seemed to have adopted the mantra "What's mine is MINE ALL MINE, and what's yours is also MINE ALL MINE!!!!" at around age 2.5, and in the last month or less she has suddenly been so so so so so much better about this! Good thing, considering our new roommates!!
I was really worried b/c she could be so rude to other kids, and nothing I did seemed to help. But, all of a sudden she improved a whole lot, she is like a diiferent child. She certainly has issues with sharing still (mostly with her new "sister"), but it's not all the time and she really likes to share her things most of the time. So, good luck and maybe your dd will be out of that phase soon too (if not already, I remember reading that several weeks ago).
Sounds like you are coming up with some good ideas to gain cooperation- my dd also loves the "see how fast you can do such-and-such". Best wishes for you and family!
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