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#61 of 76 Old 04-02-2009, 05:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by crunchymomofmany View Post
Yes - my daughter does not have a cell phone. We have one cell phone that I hand out to kids on an as needed basis. Like this afternoon my 13yo son has it because he is going to his first track practice and doesn't know when it will be over. When the kids are at the Y, they can use the Y phone if they need to call me - otherwise, we have prearranged pick up times for movies, the Y, friends' houses, etc. It's a pre-paid, no feature phone. I'm a frugal girl!
I was *just* talking with DH about this topic recently. How we'd get the kids firefly phones where we can program in 5 numbers they can call and that's it, or a featureless tracfone like we have with no texting and only like 20 min at a time....but no fully featured camera/text/internet phones, no way, no how. Heck, we both each have a featureless tracfone, we're not getting the kids better phones than we have. If we can survive without texting/camera/internet, so can they.

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#62 of 76 Old 04-02-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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my husband does have a fancy schmancy iPhone - but he got it from work and they pay the bill! otherwise, i have the "ugly" black, $20 tracfone - it's so funny, though, because in Vermont I didn't get cell service so I didn't even have a phone - I feel like I'm in the 24th century - or a Star Trek movie - just owning the thing!

Unschooling, writer mom of Matt, 22; Lydia, 21; Alex, 18; Liam, 16; Jack, 9; Kiara, 7; Seamus, 5; Anais, 1 and ??? May 2015. About to hit the road in an RV full time. Currently live off grid in Alaska.
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#63 of 76 Old 04-02-2009, 08:08 PM
 
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LOL at teacher/student analogy. I teach a second language to adults who could be my fathers (they are also police officers). Believe it or not, GD principles were very useful in helping me to be in control of my classes. I rely a lot on mutual respect, getting them to be proud of themselves and their accomplishment instead of saying that I'm pleased with their progress, working with their different personalities (some 50 y/o can be more stubborn than a toddler when they don't agree with you).

Spanking or instilling fear would definitely not work with them.

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#64 of 76 Old 04-02-2009, 09:37 PM
 
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I was never hit or shamed as a child so it never occured to me to do so to my children.

Having said that, my G!d there have been days when I'd like to strangle my two.

Actually, that gives me an idea for a spin-off...

Full time working mom to two bright and busy little girls! treehugger.gif
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#65 of 76 Old 04-03-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by transylvania_mom View Post
LOL at teacher/student analogy. I teach a second language to adults who could be my fathers (they are also police officers). <snip>

Spanking <snip> would definitely not work with them.
True...but t'would make for a whole 'nuther themed class...

GOOD moms let their kids lick the beaters. GREAT moms turn off the mixer first!
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#66 of 76 Old 04-04-2009, 11:53 AM
 
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Well, I wouldn't ever let my child stand beside a street. I was concerned about him getting out of bed in the middle of the night, etc and opening the door.. there's a street in front of my house. He has a baby gate for his room.. but I know he could climb over it if he really wanted to. I'm going to find another barrier for that door though!
These might help:

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#67 of 76 Old 04-10-2009, 07:32 PM
 
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I don't usually say l'm a Christian, because l don't like getting lumped in with a bunch of weirdos- but when it comes to spanking, my views are very Christian.
God, our father, extends grace to us, his children. God is perfect, yet he does not hold us to his standard of perfection. If God exercised his wrath on us when we displeased him, we could not take it, it is too mighty. As Christians we must strive to be more like God. We extend grace to our children, and never exercise our wrath on them. They are small, to them we are mighty.
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#68 of 76 Old 04-11-2009, 03:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nd_deadhead View Post
I loved Sunflowergirl's response!

I'd like to add this: At some point, a parent has to stop spanking - you aren't going to spank a 16-yr-old, right? So at the point where you stop spanking, you need to develop a different parent tool to replace it.

Why not develop other parenting tools FIRST, so you don't ever have to change your methods?

We have raised our sons based on the Golden Rule - treat others as you want to be treated. That means we treat THEM the way we want to be treated, and the way we want them to treat others. Our parenting style is based on trust and respect - they trust us not to hurt them; we respect their thoughts and opinions (even if we don't always agree with them, we listedn to them), and they trust that we will deal with issues fairly and consistently. From that comes respect for us.

There's nothing about spanking that fostors trust or respect.
I really love this perspective of mutual respect, and it's something I didn't experience as a child, and I wanted to do with my children. I can see how this can be great for children - we'll say 5 and older. When they can effectively communicate with you. But I am at a loss with my 3 year old son. My husband doesn't really see anything wrong with spanking, so we have spanked. I hate it after the fact. But I can't figure out what do replace it with. He's 3 - I can't get him to understand the mutual respect thing. So I guess I really need to look up gentle discipline methods for toddlers and preschoolers. I can't see how it works. Not that I'm saying spanking is the right thing for this age group either. I'm saying I haven't found anything that woks!
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#69 of 76 Old 04-12-2009, 02:11 AM
 
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Keep reading in this forum, including old threads, and you'll find some good ideas. Hope they help!
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#70 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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I grew up with spanking. I myself didn't get spanked that much, but my brother got spanked all. the. time. When I hear people rail on about how kids "need" to be spanked or they will grow up to be inconsiderate/rude/whatever, I think of my brother.

By that theory, my brother should be a freaking saint. He should be the most well behaved, successful, considerate kid out of all three of us. Well he's not. And despite all that spanking, he was still a difficult child that acted out constantly. All spanking seemed to do was teach him to be sneaky about his transgressions to avoid being spanked. He's 22 years old now, but I really think that he may have benefited from something different. But really spanking is just something we were brought up with, it was just something you did.

It's amazing how often I hear people say "If that was MY kid, I'd beat the crap out of them for "that" (insert "offensive behavior" here). And often it is met with vigorous nodding in agreement.

Could you imagine the response one would have gotten if they had said "If MY wife ever spent that much money on a pair of shoes without asking me, I'd beat the shit out of her"? Or not even "beat the crap out of" but just "hit". My husband would think I was insane if I told him to bend over because I was going to paddle him for being late for dinner AGAIN.

Really the more I thought about it, the sillier it seemed to spank a kid. I don't liken my child to an adult at all. She's not my equal in terms of reasoning ability. (I'm sorry if others feel that way, but I don't) So yes, I tell her what to do and make choices for her. But she is my equal in that she's a human being and deserves respect.
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#71 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 04:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by averlee View Post
I don't usually say l'm a Christian, because l don't like getting lumped in with a bunch of weirdos- but when it comes to spanking, my views are very Christian.
God, our father, extends grace to us, his children. God is perfect, yet he does not hold us to his standard of perfection. If God exercised his wrath on us when we displeased him, we could not take it, it is too mighty. As Christians we must strive to be more like God. We extend grace to our children, and never exercise our wrath on them. They are small, to them we are mighty.
How I wish that all "Christians" took this approach. I'm soooooooo sick of running into the endless mentality that there are just times when kids need a spanking. Why in the world would someone want to hurt their children!?! It's beyond me!!!

We are dealing with an endless family battle over this - us being the bad guys because we don't spank, think it's wrong to spank and they can't agree to disagree ((sigh))
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#72 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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I freaking HATE it when my kid is being "bad" and people that know I'm not a spanker give me that "look". Or make comments about how if I spanked her she wouldn't be "like that." Okay, so what if you do spank and your kid acts "like that".

And even my parents who did spank. At least with me, I don't remember them spanking me for every darn thing I did wrong. Some people act like that is the only reasonable response for a kid acting like a kid. My kid is 2.5, and having and is dragging her feet because she doesn't want to leave the park...SPANK HER! Yes, so then I can deal with the aftermath of THAT as well. Really as annoying as it may be at the moment, sometimes it's just easier to walk away from the tantrum, pick up the kid (kicking and screaming) and just remove them from the situation, or just ignore them. They tend to get over it quicker. Spanking them into submission does not immediately turn then into happy, agreeable, compliant children like so many seem to think it does.
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#73 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 06:19 PM
 
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My #1 reason for not spanking is that, regardless of whether it damages the child, it doesn't teach the child why he shouldn't do whatever it was that he did. So, after you deal with the child's tears and your own frustration, you still have the task of teaching the child.
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#74 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 06:26 PM
 
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Responding and haven't read all the replies... so I'm sure I'm repeating someone.


One of the main reason I don't spank, is because I believe it's wrong to hit. Teaching my child not to hit while still inflicting physical punishment seems hypocritical.

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#75 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 06:47 PM
 
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Not got time to read, so probably this has been said.

I don't smack my daughter because in the heat of the moment i think losing control of one's temper is the very opposite of what i want to teach her, and after the event the idea of hitting someone who weighs a fifth of what i weigh and cannot possibly defend herself makes me feel sick.
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#76 of 76 Old 04-13-2009, 07:24 PM
 
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Sorry, this will be long, but there are so many great posts I totally agree with, so I have to quote them.
However, I'm going to start with one post I didn't agree with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
It sounds human

I think, as parents, there are times we are all tempted to hit. We are the adults though and know better.

-Angela
I've never, ever been tempted to hit. Not once. Neither has my dear.
And we never will be.
We've been parenting for quite a few years, also with teenager etc. (Se my signature.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflowergirll View Post
My dh was spanked as a child, and so doesn't feel like there is much wrong with it. But I am ANTI-spanking. I hope I never, ever, ever spank.

My husband wasn't hard to convince, thank goodness.

My reasons were:

1. It doesn't teach. The purpose of spanking is to teach a lesson, right? Well what lesson would it ever, ever teach? There is always a better way to convey your message.

2. The only thing spanking conveys to me is "a big person can hurt a small person."

3. I don't want my child to ever hit someone. That means I can never hit my child.

4. If we were to spank, when would we do it? In anger? That doesn't seem like the right way to parent. When we're calm? We're going to purposefully inflict painful punishment when we're calm? That's even scarier to me.

5. Children who are spanked, are much more likely to have violent, anti-social behavior. Even if they are spanked "occasionally."

6. Spouses who hit each other can be arrested for domestic abuse. Yet, we can hit little children?

7. I want to teach my child to talk through situations, to take a step back and analyze situations before reacting. To compromise. To fit into society well. Spanking does not teach that, IMHO.

Ok, so those reasons are mostly emotional reasons. But, I felt strongly about it and my husband agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C View Post
I guess the first thing I would do is to stop calling hitting children 'spanking.' Then whatever you discuss can at least be understood for what it is. Instead of asking why we shouldn't 'spank' children, we would be discussing why we shouldn't HIT children, which for me is simply a discussion about why we shouldn't HIT (anyone), because it is a form of violence, abuse, complete lack of understanding of who we are as human beings and who others are to each of us.

Hitting just isn't within my repertoire of options when I don't like how someone is behaving or responding, or whatever. It isn't in my repertoire of coping mechanisms when I don't receive what I'm expecting, just like shooting, stabbing, shoving, maiming, slashing, etc... are not. All of these are clearly actions that I am capable of taking, but I choose as a conscious person to take actions that benefit- that create- rather than injure and destroy.

These are fundamental principles by which I live, and hitting children just fits right in there with the rest of things that are not congruent with my understanding of life and human interaction.

One of the most helpful ideas for me when I am upset is to recognise that my upset is my signal that something is out of alignment with my consciousness. If I persist in my upset, I have stopped considering options and have stopped acting according to the innate creativity within me (and every human being). I have therefore begun to waste and thereby destroy- the opposite of creativity and who I am. SO, when I am upset, I must consciously choose to create- to consider options, to change myself or my situation, and to do so with the intention of the greatest benefit.

Again, hitting is so far removed from creativity that it simply doesn't even register on my radar for considering creative ways/options for living consciously with others and myself.

It's not about 'spanking.' It's about who you think you are and who you think others are. If you see others and yourself as innately infinitely valuable, you won't have to think of arguments against hitting; it won't ever be an option.

To be reeeeealy clear, you are not in the position of considering arguments against raping children. Think of hitting as being the same. At its core, I believe it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by library lady View Post
If another adult doesn't do what you want them to do, do you hit hit/spank them? No, because there are other ways of settling the dispute. Plus, hitting/spanking another adult is considered assault. Why should it be any different with a child?
Quote:
Originally Posted by amandaleigh37 View Post
Children learn best through example. What would we be teaching them by spanking? ("When you get to be an adult, then you can hit too"?)

I'd much rather take the hard road of self-control and finding other ways to teach my child what is appropriate, because those are the characteristics I want him to develop himself over time. Not fearing me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnitLady View Post
Because I remember the pure hatred and rage I felt towards my parents (they never knew). I also remember the humiliation and often the feeling that if they would just listen I could explain why I did whatever I did (it was often a misunderstanding because they only saw things through adult eyes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
My most important reason for not spanking is that I feel very strongly that it's wrong to hit another human being unless said person is threatening a life and children are humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
well, first because it's not discipline, it's punishment. it doesn't teach anything, it only shames.

the major reason i don't spank, though, is that i think children are people, worthy of the same rights to physical dignity that i have.

i have a right not to be assaulted, so shouldn't she? i don't hit DH and he doesn't hit me, so why would it be acceptable to hit her? i just don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caro113 View Post
I didn't read the responses, but here are my top ten reasons:

1: Hitting a child is abusive.

2: "You can't hit people! So to teach you not to hit, I am going to hit you" ... can you spot what's wrong with that statement?

3: Parenting is not about being revengeful. Hitting is a parent's (or caregiver's) way of getting revenge for something the child did.

4: It sends a confusing message.

5: It is better to be respected than to be feared (and if you can figure out who asked that question, a cookie for you!) But really, think about it. When you were in school or with your parents, did you listen to what they said out of respect or out of fear? Do you really want your children to fear you?

6: Gentle Discipline is very anti-spanking.

7: It can cause a child to have low self-esteem and poor self-image. Also, it can eventually lead to the child developing depressing.

8: Is it okay for a man to beat his wife? Or a woman to beat her husband? How about an adult child beating their aging and (mostly) defenseless parents? ... then how is it okay for a parent to beat their child? (and yes, spanking is beating)

9: Hitting is abusive.

10: Hitting is abusive.
I totally agree with all the great posts over here.

-pixie, my dear, and (A-88), N-98, Littlest-06/00-08/00, J-03 & Little Miss Cotton Ball Button-03 (SN), S-05, Hope-loss 09/09, Bean-loss 04/10, and littlePopcorn due feb. 8th -11.
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