Unconditional Parenting support thread - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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#301 of 367 Old 11-21-2009, 05:34 PM
 
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Alright...So I am so excited already because I see some posts about all the issues we are struggling with...diaper changes, actually wearing cloths, getting ready to go and IN the car seat, bedtime, nail-clipping...So nice to know I am not the only one.
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#302 of 367 Old 11-29-2009, 12:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Devaya View Post
We did have some interesting parenting discussions (about sharing, forcing sharing etc) Mostly I find people just don't 'get' it!

I know, what you mean, sometimes it feels like talking to a wall

Recently I've had a discussion with a very anti-UP mom, no matter how hard I would try to convince her that small children can be included in decision making and they are able to participate etc. and it doesn't mean that the child is spoiled, I wasn't able to explain it. She kept saying that small children need us to set boundaries, they need us to make decisions for them, this is what parents are for. Very frustrating

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You must be the change you wish to see - Ghandi
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#303 of 367 Old 11-30-2009, 05:18 PM
 
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Hello!!!!!

I have read the WHOLE thread. It took me awhile but I did it. I found it very interesting. I have just begun my journey into this new world. I read UP years ago before it even came out. I was at an Alphie Kohn talk and bought a copy. He signed it and chatted....okay yeah, I'm bragging a little.

My son is 13 mos so we are embarking on this and I am so happy to have found this thread. Thank you all for sharing and advising.

This is the best thread on MDC!

I have boys! My first baby boy was born 10/08 and my second baby boy was born 7/12

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#304 of 367 Old 11-30-2009, 05:37 PM
 
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I wanted to say something regarding the discussion a page or 2 back about having to physically force kids sometimes. My son HATES getting in the carseat, having his diaper changed, and the worst thing of all time......rinsing the hair...sigh.

MarineWife talked about this somewhere in the thread that AP says in UP that there will always be things we NEED to make our kids do but we can still allow and honor their feelings about it. Like the carseat....there just isn't another choice and sometimes the more it is drawn out the worse it gets..like we say once they are in there they get over it. I think it is completely normal for a human to resist getting strapped into something. I guess the un UP thing would be to say things like "This isn't a big deal..come on already...it is just a carseat...give it a rest...control yourself...you're really okay....this is ridiculous"...etc. From my understanding of UP if something is really a non negotiable like this is is fine to get it over with as gently and calmly as possible while saying things like one of the PP's said....a stream of understanding and pleasantness..."I see you don't want to get in the carseat. You are really showing me that this isn't what you want right now. What music should we listen to? I know..let's sing!" etc.

My big challenge when I have to do one of these things is to keep my own emotions under control. I feel like if I get worked up in my head about how awful it is that I have to rinse his hair and I feel guilty and start doubting myself...I feel like I communicate that to him and he gets more worked up cause he feeds off me. I have observed how attuned to my emotional world he really is. I am trying to stay sensitive to him while staying centered in my own emotions. I hate upsetting him but I also don't want to communicate to him that it is an emotional trauma to have your hair rinsed. I want him to look in my eyes and see calm and certainty and love and know that even though it is uncomfortable in the moment that it is nothing I am afraid of and therefore nothing for him to fear.

I have boys! My first baby boy was born 10/08 and my second baby boy was born 7/12

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#305 of 367 Old 12-01-2009, 04:55 PM
 
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We had a hard morning this morning, re: getting dressed to leave for the gardens. I tried so hard to validate her feeling, but still get her dressed (it was 40 degrees here), yet she was still upset and I felt awful. I guess I could have stayed home and skipped the gardens, but I knew once we got there she would have fun. And she did. But then at the end, she started running around (by all the fancy breakable Christmas trees) and I tried simply talking with her about walking slowly, but she kept running, so I picked her up to hold her, saying I am sorry I know you really want to run right now, but we can only walk slowly so I am going to hold you. The she started yelling that I was hurting her (she is 2 yrs) and I most definitely was not, she just didn't want to be held. So again I stated her feelings and why I had to hold her, saying we could run in a minute when we got outside. Any suggestions how I should have handle these issues differently?
Harmony08, I know what you mean about emotions. DD is so sensitive to my emotional state, in two ways. If I am flustered, it does not help out at all, or in the same line, if I am anxious about something going "wrong" usually it will, but if I am calm and confident, it usually goes better. Too, I find if I am committed, DD challenges less and is more likely to go along smoothly with whatever; e.g., bedtime lately she has wanted to be walked and nursed to sleep, but I am getting to the point where I just can't. She is over 30 pounds, and I am 23 weeks or so pregnant, I just can't walk her, holding in cradle hold for 30 minutes of more, so I give her the choice of laying down or rocking, if I waver at all, and think "I coulllld walk her", then she throws a tantrum until I walk, but if I am resolved that walking is just not good for me and my baby in utero, she doesn't". It really is amazing how sensitive children are to our emotions/mental state.
Oh, and PS DD refuses to have her hair washed...I end up pseudo-washing it with a spray bottle, not perfect but it is getting us by. If I wash her hair too much, she refuses baths all together, and that just doesn't work for a full-time messy toddler.
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#306 of 367 Old 12-01-2009, 07:31 PM
 
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I'm currently reading "Parenting for a Peaceful World" and find it very much in line with UP so far. Has anyone else read it? Has it helped you refine your ideas about how to implement UP?
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#307 of 367 Old 12-01-2009, 08:30 PM
 
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I haven't heard of PPW, but it sounds great by the title! Who is the author?

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
Her signature would be: Sleep is for the Weak
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#308 of 367 Old 12-02-2009, 03:26 PM
 
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For those having problems with hair washing, did you try offering your children to do it themselves? For some kids this works wonders

Our main problem lately is getting DH into the bathtub without forcing him. I've tried everything, I make it fun, I offer him choices: with bubbles or no bubbles, with mom or dad, before dinner or after dinner, he can take any toy he wants with him etc. Still we end up forcing him. Once he's in the bathtub he's fine but getting him in is impossible.

Any suggestions?

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You must be the change you wish to see - Ghandi
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#309 of 367 Old 12-02-2009, 03:49 PM
 
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Hey,

He is 13 mos, he can't rinse his own hair yet unfortunately. He can pour the water all over his face and cough and choke but nope not the hair yet. Maybe soon! I am so going to try the spray bottle thing. Thanks Locknestmother!

I went to a talk once about little kids and transitions. It was very interesting about how some of us are much better at transitions than others. I know that they are tough for me. Getting out of bed..getting into the shower...getting out for a walk...going to yoga..even going to bed "I don't want to get ready for bed. I just want to BE in bed" I am happy once I do any of these things but man..

Joanna, do your think your son's bathtime resistance is actually about the bathtime or more about making it through the transition to the bathtime? Maybe if you focused more on easing the transition than making the actual bath more enticing. Just a thought!

I have boys! My first baby boy was born 10/08 and my second baby boy was born 7/12

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#310 of 367 Old 12-03-2009, 02:22 PM
 
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Harmony, that's very interesting

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Originally Posted by Harmony08 View Post
Joanna, do your think your son's bathtime resistance is actually about the bathtime or more about making it through the transition to the bathtime? Maybe if you focused more on easing the transition than making the actual bath more enticing. Just a thought!

I think the resistance is more about getting in the bathtub, usually once DS is in the bathtub he plays happily. He also gets upset when I take him out of the bathtub even if he tells me he's done and wants to get out.

How can I help him with the transition?

Joanna WAHM to DS 10/2007
You must be the change you wish to see - Ghandi
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#311 of 367 Old 12-03-2009, 05:07 PM
 
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How can I help him with the transition?
Yes! Any ideas on this? It's the exact same thing here and we're just managing with sponge baths and the occasional splash in the sink. Help!

Mom of one child (2008), wife of one husband, tender of dogs, cats and chickens. Household interests: ocean life (kid), bitcoins (husband), simplifying (me).

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#312 of 367 Old 12-03-2009, 05:17 PM
 
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my only suggestions are things I'm sure you have already tried. My DD is 15 months old, so you may have to adapt your strategies to be age appropriate too:
-time warnings. "we're going to take a bath in 10 mins" "we're going to take a bath in 5 mins" etc.
-say "bye bye" to whatever it is you are leaving. we say this a LOT. It really helps her. Sometimes we do a special byebye song we learned at Music Together (Bye Bye toys, Toys away)
-"Let's do one more ______ and then we are going to _____. What would you like to choose for your last ____?"

That's all I got.

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
Her signature would be: Sleep is for the Weak
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#313 of 367 Old 12-04-2009, 04:00 PM
 
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my only suggestions are things I'm sure you have already tried. My DD is 15 months old, so you may have to adapt your strategies to be age appropriate too:
-time warnings. "we're going to take a bath in 10 mins" "we're going to take a bath in 5 mins" etc.
-say "bye bye" to whatever it is you are leaving. we say this a LOT. It really helps her. Sometimes we do a special byebye song we learned at Music Together (Bye Bye toys, Toys away)
-"Let's do one more ______ and then we are going to _____. What would you like to choose for your last ____?"

That's all I got.
mckennasmomma, this is GREAT stuff

We used to do "bye bye" to everything a lot, why did I stop doing it? Thanks for the reminder
Instead of saying "let's do one more_____" I always say "This is the last time we do it", it doesn't sound as good as" Let's do it one more time", I'll try to change that
Time warnings haven't worked for us, maybe timer will be a better solution

Joanna WAHM to DS 10/2007
You must be the change you wish to see - Ghandi
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#314 of 367 Old 12-04-2009, 05:31 PM
 
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Hey,

I offer the following to help with transitions in general. It is mix of what I have learned through working with young kids, listening and talking with other teachers, reading, and the talk I went to. My son is 13 mos so we still get away with a lot of distraction and redirection. These days are numbered, however. Thanks for making me think back to this kind of info. So keep in mind that I haven't had the bath situation yet. I have dealt with classroom situations. I tried to offer ideas about the bath situation using my experience in the classroom but I am very aware that things are much different when you are parenting your own child so if they are silly ideas I apologize.

Just understanding that transitions are difficult is a good start. Current activity is secure, known, certain, and stable. A transition is unsecure, unknown, uncertain, and unstable. There is a loosey goosey feeling in the transition that makes some people very uncomfortable. As we know, young kids are very much in the present moment so it s hard for them to realize they will be very happy once they are on the walk/in the bubble bath/at the playgroup.

Anything you can do to shorten the transition and or minimize the discomfort of the transition will help. You may not always be able to eliminate the discomfort and the behaviors but you can probably always minimize them.

Here are some ideas to try. Ultimately, all children are different. Pick and choose what works with your’s.

1.Prepare for transition
Generally, I find that children handle transitions better when given warnings that a transition is about to occur and are told in advance about the transition. This minimizes the unknown and unexpectedness. For some children, however, it creates more anxiety and prolongs the transition period. These kids require more creativity and gentleness. Instead of a five minute reminder before a diaper change they may need a silly dance session or game to get them to the table and then a quick diaper change full of silly songs and distractions. They may still protest (and of course they may) but the uncomfortable transition period has been cut short and they are usually happier this way. You aren't tricking them. You are shortening the amount of time in between activities.

2.Shorten the transition period
Do what you can ahead of time to prepare for the transition so it can be as short as possible.

3.Turn the transition itself into and activity
This will work best if it is either an activity that the child already knows and loves (dancing, reading, chasing etc) or an activity so novel and enticing no child could refuse. I read about a mom who would let her kids use paint or markers in and ON the bathtub and would then hose them off. Definitely an enticing way to get them into the bathtub.

4.Bridge the two activities somehow
As I said earlier kids have a hard time projecting themselves into the future scenario. Therefore, anything that helps the brain connect the two activities may help. If a he is playing in the living room and has to go to the bathroom perhaps he can take the Duplos to the bath. Maybe some bath books or toys could live in the living room to be chosen and taken to the bathroom and vice versa. Maybe one parent can leave the living room and go play in the bathroom. Maybe you run the bubble bath and bring a handful of bubles to him to spark his interest and then tell him there are lots more in the bathroom. You get the idea. Something that can help his brain connect his current activity to the next one.

5.Minimize the unknown
Make a book about it. You could take pictures of him getting ready for a bath and taking a bath and make a little book. Then just leave it around and read it casually so he gets very familiar with the process. IME, kids love looking at pictures of themselves and their parents.

Give baby dolls a bath and go through the same process he does. Again, this will familiarize him with the process but will also allow him the opportunity to be in the parent role. Watching him play this may give you insights into his feelings about it.

6.Think about what helps you
Think of transitions that are tough for you and what helps you through them. See if you can apply what you learn to your child.

7.Get super creative and wacky
The woman I saw speak about transitions called herself an Early Childhood Practitioner. She had been teaching young children for 100 years or so. She was all about engaging a child’s 5 senses.

Aromatherapy-She used aromatherapy (the playtime smell would fade out and be replaced by the storytime smell). A subtle signal to children that a transition is coming before she ever said a word about it.
Music- Same thing, different kinds of music for different periods. A change in environment before the verbal direction. She also had tons of gentle songs for each transition.
Touch-She would flit around the room with a long silky scarf or fluffy piece of wool and invite each child to meet her at the door/on the rug to feel it more.
Sight-She would light a candle somewhere or unfurl a beautiful scarf or painting to get their attention and alert them to the change.
I can’t remember a taste example. Maybe there wasn’t one.

8. Connect to the child's reality. Attune to his emotional world.
Before announcing a transition, get down on the floor with the child. Observe what he is doing/thinking/feeling. This will help you decide when/if to end the current activity. Connect to him gently through the play and gently announce the upcoming transition.

9. Look for the natural breaks.
Sometimes kids offer us natural breaks in the activity. Like asking for a snack, a story, or a cuddle. Use these opportunities to transition. It is easier to transition at a break in activity than it is during deep play. Much the way it is easier to wake up in between sleep cycles rather then during one.

Like I said, I haven't tested any of this out as a parent. So, do with this info what you will.

Peace!

I have boys! My first baby boy was born 10/08 and my second baby boy was born 7/12

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#315 of 367 Old 12-04-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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wow, awesome harmony08! i copied that list in to a document for future reference.

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
Her signature would be: Sleep is for the Weak
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wow, awesome harmony08! i copied that list in to a document for future reference.
me toooooo!

Mom of one child (2008), wife of one husband, tender of dogs, cats and chickens. Household interests: ocean life (kid), bitcoins (husband), simplifying (me).

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#317 of 367 Old 12-05-2009, 01:53 PM
 
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me tooooo

This is really awesome, thanks a lot for taking time to write about transition

Using five senses - that's genius, I will definitely try using music and candles since my son loves both
also making books with pictures of our children preparing for the bath or some other activity - I love love love this idea to

Without even knowing it I've been using some of the ideas described above.
I try not to interrupt when DH is in deep play.
In preparation for toilet training I started changing diapers in the bathroom, I always keep few toys and books there, usually something he's interested in at the time, this made our transition to the diaper changes a lot easier and today for the first time ever he told me he has a poopy diaper and headed to the bathroom it seems like he is finally familiar with the process

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#318 of 367 Old 12-05-2009, 02:29 PM
 
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Harmony, thanks so much for that aweosme post! I C&P'd it to a file too! Would you mind if I pass that on (with credit, of course)?
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#319 of 367 Old 12-05-2009, 05:11 PM
 
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Oh I am so glad everyone has found my post to be helpful! I am always nervous about giving advice from my teacher days. Sure jennchsm, pass it on. I am always up for helping other parents out.

I have boys! My first baby boy was born 10/08 and my second baby boy was born 7/12

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#320 of 367 Old 12-06-2009, 08:00 AM
 
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Just found this thread and am up to page 8...
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#321 of 367 Old 12-06-2009, 07:11 PM
 
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I've read UP and I am glad to find this tribe. My coming 2yo challenges me and sometimes I feel so lost, and revert back to doing to rather than doing with. But sometimes I wonder if I take the doing with too far, like helping her clean up her toys. I'm completely guilty of being in a hurry all the time. I think that rule is so hard for me. Anyway, glad to find a place where I can find support and advice from other UP parents.
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#322 of 367 Old 12-09-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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I've read UP and I am glad to find this tribe. My coming 2yo challenges me and sometimes I feel so lost, and revert back to doing to rather than doing with. But sometimes I wonder if I take the doing with too far, like helping her clean up her toys. I'm completely guilty of being in a hurry all the time. I think that rule is so hard for me. Anyway, glad to find a place where I can find support and advice from other UP parents.
Being in hurry is hard for me, too. I have really found that being mindful in the moment helps...Letting go of what I should or want to be doing, and being with Lauren. (Who is 2). As for cleaning up toys, I won't about it so. Lauren only occasionally cleans up, sometimes even getting upset if I clean up...I talked to my friend who is UP and a former Montessori teacher and she said at this stage, if the child wants mess it is okay, and cleaning is more about us modeling then the young child doing. Hope that helps, gave me some relief.
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#323 of 367 Old 12-09-2009, 04:56 PM
 
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As for those with bathtime issues (like us)...I try all my tricks for getting in, but if they don't work, I don't bother, she will survive not being clean for one more day. But some tricks, special bubbles, recently I took an almost empty dish soap (natural) squeeze bottle and filled it with water to make a bubbly squirt bottle, other times we have tea time in the tub, but usually what works the best is not even saying "time for a bath" but rather starting the water, and then hearing the water is a cue for her, she will come in curious about what is going on, and saying "oh, tubby time?" But there are many many days when she doesn't have one either.
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#324 of 367 Old 12-14-2009, 06:55 PM
 
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Do you all have any pro-UP book recommendations that helped you? In particular I'm parenting preteens and teens.
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#325 of 367 Old 12-14-2009, 09:25 PM
 
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Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
Her signature would be: Sleep is for the Weak
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#326 of 367 Old 12-14-2009, 09:27 PM
 
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Do you all have any pro-UP book recommendations that helped you? In particular I'm parenting preteens and teens.
Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves

(ETA: sorry for the double post)

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
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#327 of 367 Old 12-16-2009, 12:29 AM
 
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I haven't kept up-to-date with this thread so forgive me if this has been discussed already and feel free to point me in the direction of that discussion.

Today my DD (2 y. 8 mo.) threw the most massive (overtired) tantrum at the dentist office while we were waiting for my DH to finish with his appt. She deliberately hit me and when I held her hand and said "we don't hit people.It hurts. Please DO NOT hit mommmy!!" she looked me in the eye and slapped me in the face That was a first for me. I reverted back to "gentle touches" and tried to calm her down with a soothing voice, etc.

Anyway, eventually she calmed down but how do you deal with hitting and tantruming while out in public? I acknowledged (to her) that I know it is hard to contain ourselves when we are frustrated.

Overall, I guess I feel like I handled things pretty gently and it was okay but not great.

Any advice here? Thx.

Mom to Nora - 04/07 and Brendan - born still at 23 weeks - 07/10
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#328 of 367 Old 12-16-2009, 04:28 PM
 
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sounds to me like you did handle it well. my only advice would be that when you are out in public (or at home for that matter) focus in with lazer beam focus on your child to figure out what she needs in that moment. forget that anyone is there; it is not them that you care about, or what they think that matters.

: Mountain biking mama to one beautiful baby girl, born happily at home 8/26/2008.
Her signature would be: Sleep is for the Weak
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#329 of 367 Old 12-17-2009, 02:46 PM
 
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Do you all have any pro-UP book recommendations that helped you? In particular I'm parenting preteens and teens.
Connection Parenting - Pam Leo.
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I too currently reading Kohn's book and it really is resonating in my heart. My DD is only recently challenging us with her behavior (she turned 2 in Sept and gained a baby brother that month, so DH and I are not surprised by our sudden conflicts) and it just wasn't feeling right/good to use timeouts, threats, etc. I have doubts about UP though. Like, I constantly feel like it is just not practical to use with a 2 year old. I can explain, explain, explain to her but she doesn't always have the capacity to get it- so I'm still forced to impose my will on her or I feel like I'm just giving in. I totally feel like this could lead to her having all the control because I don't have a really good reason to say "no". I also feel like I could easily lose my sense of identity with this approach-I have a history of agreeing to other people's choices (even simple things like what movie to see, what restaurant to see) even if it isn't really what I want. I've always figured it is the nice thing to do and probably a better choice than my own. But over the years I've realized that I make good decisions too and I deserve to get my own way sometimes. It is still hard to voice my opinions in these situations though but I like that I am learning to do this. I feel like I could have a really hard time balancing the UP approach and meeting at least some of my own needs.
I'd really love to hear some feedback about this.

Also, does UP get easier to use as children get older? I am wondering this because it seems that the majority of "issues" on this thread are with toddlers. I'd like to think that by using the UP approach now, we will head off some future problems or at least have a much stronger foundation from which to base our solutions when we encounter problems.

Mama to DD1 2007, DS 2009, DD2 2012, What a Journey this parenting thing is...
 

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