7yo boys: issues with food/eating/control. Please advise! - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 01:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
We're talking about kids hungry for an apple or some cheese, not kids who are gorging themselves on take-out.

You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits


And the way I read Op's, it sounds like the boys are given PLENTY of opportunity to eat good healthy food at meals. they are CHOOSING not to, and then eating/sneaking the (higher priced) snack foods, behind moms back.

Oh yeah, their hungry alright, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EATING THEIR MEALS. the Op probably wouldn't have any objection to the boys eating an apple after they had eaten their meal AND asked instead of taken it. There are more reasons than just "control" for requiring children to ask permission for things. I'll name a few of my own.

In this house, children ask permission for things because.....

I am not made of $,

If children are given free reign, and eat all of X,Y, or Z, then there is/may not be enough for the rest of the week, some one else's, lunch, or a dinner recipe.

It helps me keep mental inventory of our food stocks, and plan accordingly.

It's just plain good manners to have consideration for every one else it he household, and by ASKING before you take, allows me to gauge the food usage during the week.

I try to buy 98% healthy whole foods, and a few "snack" items. But if my son wants 5 sandwiches in one day, there won't be enough bread for the rest of the weeks school lunches.

I am not a short order cook, I am on a budget, I make frugal tasty meals, and that's that. Would I like to live extravagantly in the kitchen, sure who wouldn't....but that's not the reality of things.

Honestly I don't see the problem here as the OP trying to be "controlling"
I think she needs some organizational help, and a little help with the kids, getting them on board.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss
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#62 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 01:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by daniellebluetoo View Post
You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits.
You missed the point. These kids don't appear to have the problem you're talking about. They are wanting normal amounts of healthy food.
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#63 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 01:32 PM
 
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You missed the point. These kids don't appear to have the problem you're talking about. They are wanting normal amounts of healthy food.
Really>? why are you arguing with me>? Read my whole post, this issue DOES fit into context.

The OP CLEARLY says the boys are NOT eating their meals.....DUh, thats why they are hungry

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#64 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by daniellebluetoo View Post
Really>? why are you arguing with me>? Read my whole post, this issue DOES fit into context.

The OP CLEARLY says the boys are NOT eating their meals.....DUh, thats why they are hungry
Ok. The boys aren't eating their meals. The OP states:

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Please advise. Every meal is becoming a battleground and I hate it.
Advising her that what she is doing is ok in the name of not wasting food is actually contraindicated here. That is CLEARLY not working or else this would not be the battleground she describes.

Different kids have different needs and wants when it comes to food. This level of control she is trying to have over her boys and food is not working at all. If what I was doing was disintegrating into this kind of battle I would stop what I was doing, and re-evaluate my attitudes and try and find a new path.
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#65 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 01:38 PM
 
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You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits
I don't agree with this and I don't understand where this type of mentality would come from. Now certainly children with medical issues such as poor appetite or Prader-Wille syndrome would not have proper hunger and fullness cues, but short of that a child is well capable of knowing when he's hungry and when he's full. All children would probably overload on junkfood when given the chance, even I do that sometimes, but that's easily remedied by not allowing unmonitored access to junk food. The OP isn't even having that issue to begin with, the kids are wanting things like apples or cheese not candy or soda. I think by insisting that we as adults know more about what is going on in a child's stomach than they do, we are really devaluing their worth as a human being. Every person should have the right to say "I'm hungry, I'd like food please". Making them wait for 1/2 hour while a meal is being prepared is fine, but insisting that they eat WHAT SHE wants them to eat WHEN SHE wants them to eat in my mind is just plain old being stubborn. She came here for help, many people have offered loads of options. At this point she needs to decide how her parenting approach is working for her. If it's so important for her to maintain strict control over food, then she does so with the knowledge that her sons eating issues are going to continue to get worse. If she wants things to change then she needs to re-evaluate her stance and try to form some sort of workable compromise with her children. Kids aren't lab rats that can be trained and forced to do as we bid them to, they are humans with their own impulses and needs and desires. At some point she needs to recognize that they are trying to tell her something through their behavior and digging her heels in and blaming all of this problem on her son is not going to get the issue resolved.

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#66 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:01 PM
 
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Ok. The boys aren't eating their meals. The OP states:
Advising her that what she is doing is ok in the name of not wasting food is actually contraindicated here. That is CLEARLY not working or else this would not be the battleground she describes.

Different kids have different needs and wants when it comes to food. This level of control she is trying to have over her boys and food is not working at all. If what I was doing was disintegrating into this kind of battle I would stop what I was doing, and re-evaluate my attitudes and try and find a new path.
I don't disagree here, of course SOMETHING needs to change, and I assumed that's why the Op was here to begin with. I don't how ever agree that food should be wasted just for the sake of "making little johnny happy".

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I don't agree with this and I don't understand where this type of mentality would come from. Now certainly children with medical issues such as poor appetite or Prader-Wille syndrome would not have proper hunger and fullness cues, but short of that a child is well capable of knowing when he's hungry and when he's full. All children would probably overload on junkfood when given the chance, even I do that sometimes, but that's easily remedied by not allowing unmonitored access to junk food. The OP isn't even having that issue to begin with, the kids are wanting things like apples or cheese not candy or soda. I think by insisting that we as adults know more about what is going on in a child's stomach than they do, we are really devaluing their worth as a human being. Every person should have the right to say "I'm hungry, I'd like food please". Making them wait for 1/2 hour while a meal is being prepared is fine, but insisting that they eat WHAT SHE wants them to eat WHEN SHE wants them to eat in my mind is just plain old being stubborn. She came here for help, many people have offered loads of options. At this point she needs to decide how her parenting approach is working for her. If it's so important for her to maintain strict control over food, then she does so with the knowledge that her sons eating issues are going to continue to get worse. If she wants things to change then she needs to re-evaluate her stance and try to form some sort of workable compromise with her children. Kids aren't lab rats that can be trained and forced to do as we bid them to, they are humans with their own impulses and needs and desires. At some point she needs to recognize that they are trying to tell her something through their behavior and digging her heels in and blaming all of this problem on her son is not going to get the issue resolved.

I disagree with your disgreeing ;-) THIS mentality comes from raising my own child, being one of 6 siblings, AND being a nanny to MANY children over the past 8 yrs, I like to cal lit my own personal empirical evidence. I also didn't say that I knew more about a childs stomach than he/she did. I said sometimes they need help learning what those cues are. and YES, when I have to cut my son off at his THIRD helping of pasta with his belly already bulging, I think it's safe to say at that point, that I know better than he does.

I also don't think there is anything all ALL wrong with having kids eat when YOU want them to eat, it's called meal times.

No the kids aren't gorging on junk food, but they ARE gorging on food that isn't intended as a meal.
And if in the OP's house thats how she runs things, then thats how she runs things. Maybe she needs to reevaluate her plan, maybe she just needs to tweak it... I can't say I'm not IN HER HOUSE. But from what I can gather form the OP is that I still think she needs some organization and help getting the kids on board.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss
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#67 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:02 PM
 
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Wow. I'm always so glad when my 8 yo goes and gets himself a snack by himself. He's a boy who will be a man soon enough. I want him to recognize when he is hungry, think about what sort of food will balance out what he has been eating, and go and get it. I don't want him waiting around for food to appear.

I have noticed he has more trouble following his hunger/fullness cues with certain foods, Chick-Fil-A sandwiches included. I always want another sandwich, too, even though I KNOW I'm full but I'm mature enough and aware enough to talk myself down. I think it's the MSG... The other "food" that does that to us is Italian water ice... Anyway, natural foods that haven't been designed with input by chemists don't have that effect.

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#68 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:06 PM
 
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I have noticed he has more trouble following his hunger/fullness cues with certain foods, Chick-Fil-A sandwiches included.

Grains in particular are horrible for this. I would not be surprised at all at a kid having 4-5 helpings of pasta even with a bulging stomach. A better solution than "don't eat anymore" would be to get a fat or protein into them.
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#69 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:12 PM
 
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Wow. I'm always so glad when my 8 yo goes and gets himself a snack by himself. He's a boy who will be a man soon enough. I want him to recognize when he is hungry, think about what sort of food will balance out what he has been eating, and go and get it. I don't want him waiting around for food to appear.

I have noticed he has more trouble following his hunger/fullness cues with certain foods, Chick-Fil-A sandwiches included. I always want another sandwich, too, even though I KNOW I'm full but I'm mature enough and aware enough to talk myself down. I think it's the MSG... The other "food" that does that to us is Italian water ice... Anyway, natural foods that haven't been designed with input by chemists don't have that effect.
You did make a good point in the type of food involved. I read somewhere that studies have shown that anything containing HFCS, alcohol or processed flour have a tendency to increase hunger cues inapporpriately. So yes, what you eat can mess with your hunger cues a bit. Good point.

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#70 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by daniellebluetoo View Post

and YES, when I have to cut my son off at his THIRD helping of pasta with his belly already bulging, I think it's safe to say at that point, that I know better than he does.

.
I think your particular scenario has more to do with the type of food served. Depends on the type of pasta but if it's normal ( meaning not whole grain pasta) then it would not be as filling. Did he eat ample protein with this meal as well. I've gorged myself on pasta, and I truly felt hungry even though I knew my stomach was full. Sometimes the foods themselves need to be examined.

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#71 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:18 PM
 
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daniellebluetoo I do understand where you're coming from, but your post reads as a judgement on many of the mothers here who were simply talking from their own situations. My kids have never eaten until their tummys are distended, and my oldest is in the 23rd percentile for weight and eats all day long. The OP did ask for advice and if you feel someone stepped over the line in their responce, please don't react to that person by being hypercritcal of everyone.

I really think the thing some of us are responding to is that these behaviors do not look strictly like a discipline issue. I see three:

1) Possible food pickiness.
2) Possible hunger.
3) Food boundaries.

It's really hard for me to imagine a 7 year old eating off the floor at a public restaurant unless that child is very very hungry, or has an issue like pica or something (which need medical attention). I assume OP has not modeled eating off the floor, has eliminated a medical issue and has tried teaching the kids that it's gross and dangerous, so I assumed the kid is likely hungry, which isn't hard for me to believe since my 5 year old eats more than I do and I was blown away the first time I kept a log of it (23rd percentile for weight mind you). Since OP very strictly regulates what food and how much the children eat (or so it seems from her post), she might not even realise just how much food a kid that age can pack away.

NOT eating at breakfast and then sneaking snacks is something I saw as a pickiness issue. I understand that no one wants to be a short order cook, but I could make zucchinni for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and even if my younger DS had to starve all day he would not eat it. Would enough starvation/punishment make him eat zuchinni? No idea, but it doesn't really bother me to make sure we have green beans available too. This issue is harder to deal with because you have to find a balance between what your kids will eat and what you are willing and able to accomodate. OP wrote about being super frustrated and having every meal be a battle...I don't see how writing about what helped us in that situation as being "judgemental" just because it doesn't involve some sort of punishment that will magically make a kid eat a meal he doesn't like.

Also, it's hard to imagine a child hiding an apple in their pants if they could have simply been allowed to eat it if they asked first. My kids were champion food hiders for a while but it was only "off limits" food that was taken and hidden.

Anyway, different things will work for different families, but whatever OP has been doing isn't working and she asked for advice. I know what DID work for us, and I would hope that's helpful to her as she searches for the solution for her family.
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#72 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post

Grains in particular are horrible for this. I would not be surprised at all at a kid having 4-5 helpings of pasta even with a bulging stomach. A better solution than "don't eat anymore" would be to get a fat or protein into them.
It's funny, that you mention this, we DON"T have pasta often and this is one of the reasons, I also DO balance it out, ie, veggie primavera with usually chicken.
But it's that pasta that seems SO addictive!

I also don't say "dont eat anymore", it's more like,
Mom can I have more?,
me; Hmm, how much have you had already?,
him: two helpings.
me: Hmm, well hows your belly feel?
him:good. me: really?.. REALLY?.. it looks kinda full from here dude?
Him: yeah but it's just SO tasty!
me: I know it's tasty, mama had a little bit more myself tonight ;-) how about you take a break or a little rest, sit and talk to me about school for a few minutes then if your still hungry we'll talk about it again?
him: OK

Then we go on to chat while I clean up or do what ever in the kitchen, 9 times out of ten, he doesn't ask for another helping after that, if he does I will offer him another (which he usually doesn't finish) or offer him something else, and if he declines then I KNOW he wasn't really still hungry.

Thats how things go in THIS house. Of course this may not work for every one or every house, but it works here.

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#73 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:25 PM
 
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It's funny, that you mention this, we DON"T have pasta often and this is one of the reasons, I also DO balance it out, ie, veggie primavera with usually chicken.
But it's that pasta that seems SO addictive!

I also don't say "dont eat anymore", it's more like,
Mom can I have more?,
me; Hmm, how much have you had already?,
him: two helpings.
me: Hmm, well hows your belly feel?
him:good. me: really?.. REALLY?.. it looks kinda full from here dude?
Him: yeah but it's just SO tasty!
me: I know it's tasty, mama had a little bit more myself tonight ;-) how about you take a break or a little rest, sit and talk to me about school for a few minutes then if your still hungry we'll talk about it again?
him: OK

Then we go on to chat while I clean up or do what ever in the kitchen, 9 times out of ten, he doesn't ask for another helping after that, if he does I will offer him another (which he usually doesn't finish) or offer him something else, and if he declines then I KNOW he wasn't really still hungry.

Thats how things go in THIS house. Of course this may not work for every one or every house, but it works here.
ok, see. You aren't really controlling food. What you just did was teach your child how to really evaluate hunger cues. A common trick for dieters is to push away from the table for a 1/2 hour and see if they really feel hungry after that waiting period. Nothing wrong with that at all. But I don't think that's what the OP is doing. FWIW I think she needs to broaden her horizons as far the food she is preparing. Oatmeal and bacon sounds reasonable at first, but I know many people who wouldn't gag down oatmeal if it was the last food on this planet, and bacon gives my son headaches so he would refuse to eat that as well. I just think the OP needs to stop fighting and start talking with her kids. That would produce a lot of information that she can use to stop the mealtime battles.

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#74 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:37 PM
 
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daniellebluetoo I do understand where you're coming from, but your post reads as a judgement on many of the mothers here who were simply talking from their own situations. My kids have never eaten until their tummys are distended, and my oldest is in the 23rd percentile for weight and eats all day long. The OP did ask for advice and if you feel someone stepped over the line in their response, please don't react to that person by being hypercritical of everyone. Nope, I wasn't being hypercritical of every one else, I'm sorry you saw it that way. I did however see a few posters that were seriously out of line, and I felt a need to say something about that. Don't take it personally, really this is online chat, I don't

I really think the thing some of us are responding to is that these behaviors do not look strictly like a discipline issue. I see three:

1) Possible food pickiness.
2) Possible hunger.
3) Food boundaries.

I completely agree

It's really hard for me to imagine a 7 year old eating off the floor at a public restaurant unless that child is very very hungry, or has an issue like pica or something (which need medical attention). I assume OP has not modeled eating off the floor, has eliminated a medical issue and has tried teaching the kids that it's gross and dangerous, so I assumed the kid is likely hungry, which isn't hard for me to believe since my 5 year old eats more than I do and I was blown away the first time I kept a log of it (23rd percentile for weight mind you). Since OP very strictly regulates what food and how much the children eat (or so it seems from her post), she might not even realise just how much food a kid that age can pack away. BUT, if the kid isn't eating their meals OF COURSE they ARE going to be hungry between meals!!!!!!!

NOT eating at breakfast and then sneaking snacks is something I saw as a pickiness issue. I understand that no one wants to be a short order cook, but I could make zucchinni for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and even if my younger DS had to starve all day he would not eat it. Would enough starvation/punishment make him eat zuchinni? No idea, but it doesn't really bother me to make sure we have green beans available too. This issue is harder to deal with because you have to find a balance between what your kids will eat and what you are willing and able to accomodate. OP wrote about being super frustrated and having every meal be a battle...I don't see how writing about what helped us in that situation as being "judgemental" just because it doesn't involve some sort of punishment that will magically make a kid eat a meal he doesn't like. Again, if you wrote YOUR tactics, then this doesn't apply to you, I was referring to the PP's who wrote things (this is just wrong... control issues... starving her kids... ect ect ect, of course paraphrasing some here).... there were DEF. judgmental posts in regards to the OP, I fail to see how that is helpful. No one is going to listen to advice when it comes off as nasty and judgmental. I myself *may* think that there are things that the OP has/is doing incorrectly, but I am well aware of the fact that if I don't suggest something in a way that the OP will be receptive to, it helps no one.

Also, it's hard to imagine a child hiding an apple in their pants if they could have simply been allowed to eat it if they asked first. My kids were champion food hiders for a while but it was only "off limits" food that was taken and hidden. You'd think, right??? But I've seen it happen, HAD it happen.

Anyway, different things will work for different families, but whatever OP has been doing isn't working and she asked for advice. I know what DID work for us, and I would hope that's helpful to her as she searches for the solution for her family.
ABSOLUTELY, I agree 100% here

I have a random Q, it's been my observation that BOYS eat more than girls, do any of you moms with girls see the opposite? My son has ALWAYS eaten more than me or any of my nanny-girls, is this just coincidence?

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#75 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:41 PM
 
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You missed the point. These kids don't appear to have the problem you're talking about. They are wanting normal amounts of healthy food.
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#76 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 02:47 PM
 
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You missed the point..... being that children don't always know their body limits
And as an adult you know your child's limits all the time? You can tell when they are hungry and go away from the table wanting more? You can tell when they need something to drink?

I am sorry, a child knows more about what is going on with them than we do when it comes to certain things. A child knows when they are hungry. We don't need to train them. They have learned it since they were born, unless you shoved so much food down them in a sitting that they never learned their natural limits from it. Look at breastfeeding...uneducated people tell a mother that their baby should only nurse for 10 minutes per side. This is not true, a baby should be allowed to nurse until they are done, and a clock should not be consulted - I had one child who took 30-40 minutes sometimes to get what he needed. I had another that at times would be done in 5-10 minutes.

Yes, as parents we need to make sure that our children are not gorging themselves to sickness on their favorite foods, and what is considered healthy eating. As in your example of the eating out...yes, the girl needed to be watched to ensure she wasn't eating beyond reason...but I to the flip side of that, my BFF's daughter will do this after coming back from her Bio Dad's at visitation, because she refuses to eat there. She does not like the foods, she is intollerant or allergic to much of it, and they refuse to make meals around what she is able to eat. So, she refuses. She comes home to Mom, and she will pig out for days on end. She will go to dad's for a week and loose 5 lbs, and then go home and gain it all back. The child is hungry, and needs the food and shouldn't be restricted from it.



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Originally Posted by daniellebluetoo View Post

they are CHOOSING not to, and then eating/sneaking the (higher priced) snack foods, behind moms back.


In this house, children ask permission for things because.....

I am not made of $,

If children are given free reign, and eat all of X,Y, or Z, then there is/may not be enough for the rest of the week, some one else's, lunch, or a dinner recipe.

It helps me keep mental inventory of our food stocks, and plan accordingly.

It's just plain good manners to have consideration for every one else it he household, and by ASKING before you take, allows me to gauge the food usage during the week.

I try to buy 98% healthy whole foods, and a few "snack" items. But if my son wants 5 sandwiches in one day, there won't be enough bread for the rest of the weeks school lunches.

I am not a short order cook, I am on a budget, I make frugal tasty meals, and that's that. Would I like to live extravagantly in the kitchen, sure who wouldn't....but that's not the reality of things.

Honestly I don't see the problem here as the OP trying to be "controlling"
I think she needs some organizational help, and a little help with the kids, getting them on board.
A lot of what I see in your posts is about money - "high priced", "I am not made of money", "budgeting/limiting foods to ensure enough for a week".

In certain circumstances, this is perfectly fine - I am talking junk food - cookies, chips, candy, soda, ding dongs/ho hos/twinkies, etc. Those items should be limited and my kids in general ask first before they go for them. Even when I bake a cake, they ask first - generally they are allowed, unless it is not an appropriate time (ie after breakfast, or right before a meal), and I do tell them that they may have a piece later, but it is "too early", or "we are getting ready for dinner in a few minutes".

If you are running low on something - example you only have 2 apples left - yes, the child should come and say "Mom, there are only two apples left and I would like one of them". Why, not to control money, but so that a) You know you are running out of an item; and b) to show that they are looking out for everyone not just themselves.

I don't think people need to gauge food usage during the week, because that shows a sign of control. You don't need to inventory, that every week you buy 7 apples, 6 oranges, and 4 peaches.

I look every day in my fridge, since I make 3 meals a day in general) and have a good idea of what is in there. If I notice we are running low on something, I will write it down on a list. If I notice we are totally out of something I will go get it.

Plain and simple, it does cost a lot of feed kids. But I will skimp on other things to ensure that my kids get the good foods. So what if my kids eat all the apples in 2 days that I purchased. I will go buy more. I know exactly going into the store, that what I am buying will not last the week with my kids, and will need to make another trip to get more later. But I wont refuse my kids food if they are hungry. Why, because then I am not meeting their basic need of food. If my child wants 5 sandwhiches in one day, and it leaves me low on bread, I will put it on my list and get it the next day while I am running errands, or if it is all gone I will make a quick trip or have DH pick it up on his way home.
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#77 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 03:08 PM
 
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They aren't eating meals, but then the question is WHY aren't they eating meals. How many times have they had oatmeal and bacon for breakfast? If they like apples and cheese better, maybe they can have an apple and some cheese for breakfast. Like I said in the first place, I'd leave what they have for breakfast up to them. I keep hard boiled eggs on hand. My dd often will have a hard boiled egg and some fruit for breakfast, before I even wake up.

The older kids get, the more they eat. My just-8-year-old dd eats as much as I do some of the time. That means I have to budget for her to eat that much, as that's how much she needs. My guess is that two 7-year-old boys eat about to as much as two small adults. Maybe the problem is that she hasn't budgeted for their growing appetities. And maybe if one item (like apples) are too expensive she can get whatever fruit is on sale that week. If apples are too expensive that week and there aren't any in the house that week, they'll eat what is in the house.
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#78 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 03:10 PM
 
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I didn't say anything about drinking.... But I am saying that sometimes children DO need help learning hunger and satiety cues. My son has never gone hungry, I don't profess to KNOW when he is or isn't, but as a very in-tune mom, I have a pretty good idea of when he "should" be, ie, after school, when he wakes up, meal times,basically every 2-3 hrs... ect ect..and I'm usually right, I know because my DS tells me I also know that adults, myself included will sometimes eat when we aren't hungry, we eat out of celebration at a party, out of boredom, some eat from grief. I'm basically just saying there are more reasons than just hunger that makes people eat.

That really sucks about your BFF's daughter. But good for her for knowing!!!

If your circumstances allow you to go to the store more than once a week or your finances allow you to budget more than I do for groceries, thats cool. But unfortunately, neither my schedule (ft working single mom and FT college student) or my current finances allow for me to. It is what it is and for the time being I accept it, I know it will change. My DS understands that we can't just eat what we want when we want, because that might mean there isn't any left for latter or for mommy to make that killer meal he loves for dinner this week....natural consequences, really.

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And as an adult you know your child's limits all the time? You can tell when they are hungry and go away from the table wanting more? You can tell when they need something to drink?

I am sorry, a child knows more about what is going on with them than we do when it comes to certain things. A child knows when they are hungry. We don't need to train them. They have learned it since they were born, unless you shoved so much food down them in a sitting that they never learned their natural limits from it. Look at breastfeeding...uneducated people tell a mother that their baby should only nurse for 10 minutes per side. This is not true, a baby should be allowed to nurse until they are done, and a clock should not be consulted - I had one child who took 30-40 minutes sometimes to get what he needed. I had another that at times would be done in 5-10 minutes.

Yes, as parents we need to make sure that our children are not gorging themselves to sickness on their favorite foods, and what is considered healthy eating. As in your example of the eating out...yes, the girl needed to be watched to ensure she wasn't eating beyond reason...but I to the flip side of that, my BFF's daughter will do this after coming back from her Bio Dad's at visitation, because she refuses to eat there. She does not like the foods, she is intollerant or allergic to much of it, and they refuse to make meals around what she is able to eat. So, she refuses. She comes home to Mom, and she will pig out for days on end. She will go to dad's for a week and loose 5 lbs, and then go home and gain it all back. The child is hungry, and needs the food and shouldn't be restricted from it.





A lot of what I see in your posts is about money - "high priced", "I am not made of money", "budgeting/limiting foods to ensure enough for a week".

In certain circumstances, this is perfectly fine - I am talking junk food - cookies, chips, candy, soda, ding dongs/ho hos/twinkies, etc. Those items should be limited and my kids in general ask first before they go for them. Even when I bake a cake, they ask first - generally they are allowed, unless it is not an appropriate time (ie after breakfast, or right before a meal), and I do tell them that they may have a piece later, but it is "too early", or "we are getting ready for dinner in a few minutes".

If you are running low on something - example you only have 2 apples left - yes, the child should come and say "Mom, there are only two apples left and I would like one of them". Why, not to control money, but so that a) You know you are running out of an item; and b) to show that they are looking out for everyone not just themselves.

I don't think people need to gauge food usage during the week, because that shows a sign of control. You don't need to inventory, that every week you buy 7 apples, 6 oranges, and 4 peaches.

I look every day in my fridge, since I make 3 meals a day in general) and have a good idea of what is in there. If I notice we are running low on something, I will write it down on a list. If I notice we are totally out of something I will go get it.

Plain and simple, it does cost a lot of feed kids. But I will skimp on other things to ensure that my kids get the good foods. So what if my kids eat all the apples in 2 days that I purchased. I will go buy more. I know exactly going into the store, that what I am buying will not last the week with my kids, and will need to make another trip to get more later. But I wont refuse my kids food if they are hungry. Why, because then I am not meeting their basic need of food. If my child wants 5 sandwhiches in one day, and it leaves me low on bread, I will put it on my list and get it the next day while I am running errands, or if it is all gone I will make a quick trip or have DH pick it up on his way home.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss
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#79 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 06:41 PM
 
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I don't know how to multi quote so I am just going to address a few things said in some PP.

Most adults can't even tell the difference when they are really hungry or not so why would I expect a child to know. Carbs do cause a person to be hungry a lot faster then someone who fills up on protiens first. So allowing a child to fill up on carbs is doing no good.

I budget for 2 weeks worth and if something runs out before then to bad. It won't be boughten before then unless its something that is needed but I will not run to the store for anything outside of milk or other staples, however if I am going shopping in a day or two then it will wait.
I do have the mind set you eat what I make if you do not eat it then no snack/dessert later. But you are more then welcome to go back and finish what I cooked. Now if I know they don't like it and truly don't like it then I would offer something else.
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#80 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 07:11 PM
 
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EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!


btw, for those of you interested in "multi quoting", the tab at the bottom to the right of the "quote" button lets you multi quote, you read the posts, and as you want to quote, you click that button, when you are done and want to reply, you then click on reply, it's puts all the posts you've just quoted in your reply form..... then you cut out what you don't want/need, from there... Easy Peasy! (don't feel bad it took me over a yr to figure that one out ;-)


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I don't know how to multi quote so I am just going to address a few things said in some PP.

Most adults can't even tell the difference when they are really hungry or not so why would I expect a child to know. Carbs do cause a person to be hungry a lot faster then someone who fills up on protiens first. So allowing a child to fill up on carbs is doing no good.

I budget for 2 weeks worth and if something runs out before then to bad. It won't be boughten before then unless its something that is needed but I will not run to the store for anything outside of milk or other staples, however if I am going shopping in a day or two then it will wait.
I do have the mind set you eat what I make if you do not eat it then no snack/dessert later. But you are more then welcome to go back and finish what I cooked. Now if I know they don't like it and truly don't like it then I would offer something else.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss
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#81 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 07:30 PM
 
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Most adults can't even tell the difference when they are really hungry or not so why would I expect a child to know.
Right. And how exactly will we help our kids learn these cues if we rigidly control every morsel of food they eat, and even more detrimental rigidly enforce when they will eat?

We don't know our hunger cues because we have learned to ignore them (watching TV while we eat, driving, using the computer etc), or because we were never allowed to learn our own cues and decide when we were hungry.
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#82 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 07:39 PM
 
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Exactly. It's an instinct we've lost. The ideal IMO is to help my kids retain that instinct.
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#83 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 08:02 PM
 
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In our home, my daughter spent years taking control of food. She has some additional challenges that make new tates and textures a HUGE issue.

My rule is that I make one meal- if I know it's something she will not eat, I will sometimes alter it to make a dish just for her (plain chicken strips instead of the stirfry etc) but generally, if she won't eat it, she has to come up with an acceptable alternative. Sometimes that is peanut butter and jelly, sometimes it's fruit and cheese cubes- we go with whatever works.

She is free to grab a healthy snack whenever she wants unless we are just about to eat.

I get budgeting, but if your kids are going hungry because you want to make your budget work, it's time to adjust the budget.
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#84 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 08:30 PM
 
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Okay, I just have to say, time will remedy a lot of what is going on in this thread. Ds is going on 14 and grew 7 inches last year. If I tried to be the one who fixed every meal and snack he needs I would literally live in the kitchen.

Puberty makes boys bottomless food pits. I do NOT know where it goes ladies. Really, I don't. Not that long ago ds was full after one slice of pizza, or half a Chick Fil A Nugget meal.

I recently saw him nearly polish off an entire Little Caesars $5 pizza by himself. As a snack. I only go to Chick Fil A on college night, when sandwiches are 2-for-1. Otherwise, I couldn't afford to feed him there.

A box of Annie's Mac and Cheese is a snack between meals. Not cheese and crackers, or fruit. An entire pot of Annie's Mac.

All I'm saying is...the best time to make sure your kids can 'do for themselves' in the kitchen is probably well before the raving hunger of the adolescent years. Otherwise you will never get a moment's peace.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
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#85 of 125 Old 02-21-2010, 09:04 PM
 
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I agree that as puberty begins to hit everything changes. My daughter is 8, and as the hormone shifts begin, she's suddenly eating things that even a year ago I would not have imagined her eating, and in such HUGE amounts!
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#86 of 125 Old 02-22-2010, 08:08 PM
 
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Don't take it personally, really this is online chat, I don't
Oh I didn't. Not to worry.

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BUT, if the kid isn't eating their meals OF COURSE they ARE going to be hungry between meals!!!!!!!
That's true, but in this case the OP says this in her original post:

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We went for lunch at Chick-Fil-A and one of them was actually eating food off the floor when he was finished with his lunch.
I think it's entirely appropriate to suggest that the OP evaluate whether her ideas about how much food her kids should be eating at a meal given that the child had already finished his lunch. The fact that the child chose to eat food off the floor rather than simply ask for more food tells me the same thing that the apple incident did...that the child probably feels that he would not be allowed to have more food.

I know you've mentioned money issues, but even if I could not afford more Chickfila, I'd tell my son that we would be home soon and he could have something then. I guess I'm just confused about what you took issue with in that paragraph considering the OP clearly states that he finsihed his lunch and was still clearly hungry
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#87 of 125 Old 02-22-2010, 09:19 PM
 
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I can sort of understand not wanting one's kids to use snacks, even ones like string cheese and apples to fill up on after refusing meals...I don't know about the OP (sorry I havent read the whole thread) but we have a pretty tight budget to live on and those special snacks are for DS's lunch box and family outings when prepackaged food to take on the go is more practical. I simply can't afford to make those the main staples of my child's diet.

My 4 year old knows better than to go into the fridge behind my back, but who knows, at 7 he may defy me more in which case I may wind up doing what my parents did which was put a padlock and chain on the fridge door at night.

I used to cater to ds but recently, with a new baby I haven't got the energy to cook two or three meals (dh and ds eat meat and I don't) especially when I know darn well my food is AWESOME. About two weeks ago I just started saying "sorry, honey that's what's for dinner tonight. Don't want to try it, well you probably aren't that hungry. You're excused." Not surprisingly he has started eating what his dad and I eat.

I also do have a snack shelf I have set up for him with cereal, fruit, and other nibbles he can choose from throughout the day if he is hungry. If he fills up on those things instead of dinner, I don't really mind, but they are portioned out for a DAY, ONE day at a time! If he went and BINGED on a bunch of stuff not on his shelf, our special treats and his school snacks, I would be livid! Food is expensive and we simply can't afford to have a week of FAMILY snacks eaten in one afternoon by one child. I would LOSE it seriously. I bet the bigger the family, the more annoyed this would make me.


ETA: For example, I just bought a big bag of dried apricots for about 15 dollars at PriceSmart. If ds went into the pantry and gorged on apricots without asking, I would be furious. They are supposed to last a MONTH and I have three special meals planned that include the use of them. We can't afford dried apricots other than at PriceSmart (they are imported here and VERY expensive!) so replacing them would mean waiting a month until we got paid again...and it would SO be coming out of his pocket money!

FWIW, if my kids were not eating at home, I just do not think I would not take them out to eat, and if they ever begged a stranger for food or ate off the floor I would not take them out to eat for a long long time.

Rebekah - mom to Ben 03/05 and Emily 01/10, a peace educator, and a veg*n and wife to Jamie.
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#88 of 125 Old 02-22-2010, 09:35 PM
 
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Grains in particular are horrible for this. I would not be surprised at all at a kid having 4-5 helpings of pasta even with a bulging stomach. A better solution than "don't eat anymore" would be to get a fat or protein into them.
You did make a good point in the type of food involved. I read somewhere that studies have shown that anything containing HFCS, alcohol or processed flour have a tendency to increase hunger cues inapporpriately. So yes, what you eat can mess with your hunger cues a bit. Good point.
Yep! MSG is a horrible culprit for this...and it is a REALLY sneaky ingredient! I would be surprised if Chik-Fil-A and their ilk din't have MSG in 90% of their menu offerings.

Rebekah - mom to Ben 03/05 and Emily 01/10, a peace educator, and a veg*n and wife to Jamie.
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#89 of 125 Old 02-22-2010, 10:44 PM
 
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ETA: For example, I just bought a big bag of dried apricots for about 15 dollars at PriceSmart. If ds went into the pantry and gorged on apricots without asking, I would be furious.
On the plus side, gorging on dried apricots is quite the learning experience
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#90 of 125 Old 02-22-2010, 11:52 PM
 
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Yep! MSG is a horrible culprit for this...and it is a REALLY sneaky ingredient! I would be surprised if Chik-Fil-A and their ilk din't have MSG in 90% of their menu offerings.
It's listed in their ingredients for the breaded chicken sandwich. I didn't look up anything else. Amazingly, the lemonade is made with actual sugar rather than HFCS. http://www.dietfacts.com/list.asp?brand=Chick-Fil-A

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