Do Your Kids Ever Go to Bed Hungry? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 303 Old 06-22-2010, 07:59 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
MusicianDad,
I just want to tell you that I read a lot of your posts and think you're a GREAT parent!!
Thanks. I don't always feel like a great parent.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#122 of 303 Old 06-22-2010, 08:27 PM
ssh
 
ssh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
MusicianDad,
I just want to tell you that I read a lot of your posts and think you're a GREAT parent!!
Yeah I think so too.
ssh is offline  
#123 of 303 Old 06-22-2010, 08:58 PM
 
Anastasiya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My kids have never gone to bed hungry.

We have no real rules about food here anymore. Our life is too hectic, it seems....so any normalcy went by the wayside.

The kids have days where they snack healthily all day and never eat a meal. Then there are days when they fill up on good meals and don't even ask for snacks.

Regardless, if I do make a meal at the end of the day and they don't want to eat it their only other choice is a peanut butter sandwich, which they will all happily eat IF they don't like the meal. They usually eat the meal, though.

Now, IF my kids were whining and moping about not being in the mood for a particular meal that they normally liked, AND they whined and moped about not wanting a PB sandwich which they all normally like, all because they REALLY wanted ice cream or some other random kid-friendly food, then at that point I would tell them it's the meal or the PB sandwich or NOTHING.

It's never gotten to that point, though.

ETA: I would also be highly offended if I prepared a wonderful meal that my DH normally loves and he said he wasn't in the "mood" and fixed something else for himself. That would be soooo rude. However, once again, lately we've been eating separate meals anyway because I'm on more of a whole foods diet and he's slowly coming over to my side. Slooooowly.
Anastasiya is offline  
#124 of 303 Old 06-22-2010, 11:12 PM
 
NicaG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 1,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am really struggling with food issues and my kids. My dh usually doesn't get home until around 7pm, so we don't usually eat dinner together as a family. Sometimes I make something for the whole family that can be served to the kids and then reheated for dh later. But sometimes I make a simple dinner for the kids and then another simple dinner for dh and me. So if I make a dinner for the kids, it's hard for me to make something that I know they won't eat. It's hard to have the whole dinner rejected and thrown away. As a result, I end up making scrambled eggs, grilled cheese, spaghetti and meatballs, and a couple other "kid" dinners in rotation all week. I feel like the kids are getting pickier and pickier because I'm not challenging them to eat new things....at the same time, I hate it when they dislike and reject food. It's a bad cycle. I don't like sending them to bed hungry, because my ds will ask for food before bedtime, and will wake up in the night asking for food. I feel like it's easy to be judgmental about parents who "cater" to their kids' pickiness, but it's really hard if you are the parent dealing with this issue.

Personally I think it's ok to have one "alternative" for the kids if they don't like the main meal, like a bowl of cereal or a peanut-butter sandwich.

lady.gif mama to H. 4/05 and A. 9/08 and baby C. 10/11

NicaG is offline  
#125 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 12:50 AM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nica, have you thought of including one small amount of something new with the food you make the kids? Instead of having to deal with a whole meal of unwanted food, it would only be a couple of servings of something that can be stored and eaten by you or DH later.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#126 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
EdnaMarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
If you ask me, "once or twice a week" is often. At least IMO. If it's not, then I don't want to know how many times it has to be to be "often".

That being said, anyone else telling me I can't eat when I am hungry is unacceptable. Anyone telling my children they can't eat when they are hungry is unacceptable. If I won't let other people treat me or my children like that, why would I let myself treat them like that?
My kids can eat when they're hungry.

They can eat what we have. We have bread or a meal for the family.

They can't eat, let me remember what the more recent demands were... Nutella sandwich (recalled from months prior), ice cream and blueberry pancakes (and no we don't stock these in the fridge, sorry everyone ), chickpeas (we didn't have any), almonds (didn't have any), waffles (she was offered pancakes, and we don't have a waffle iron).

They eat what we have. That is the SAME as for my husband and I. I don't waste my time cooking myself special food if my husband asked for pilaf, or if my daughter wanted macaroni and (you guessed it) chickpeas. I just eat it.

My children don't refuse once or twice a week. I'd say it's once a month at most that my child will refuse the whole meal. Once a week she tests the rule, ("Let's just see, maybe TONIGHT she'll make me waffles with powdered sugar and ice-cream on them!" (She saw this on TV once.))

And once a week she eats her meal a little later than the rest of us, when it becomes apparent that if she doesn't, waffles (and a waffle iron) will not magically appear.

Maybe once a month, she flat out refuses and doesn't want bread, either.

I think you are perhaps envisioning a scenario in which if a child does not have full control over what she eats at every moment of the day, the child will be deprived somehow. Like, she might NEED CARROT CAKE RIGHT NOW MOMMY NOW MOMMY NOOOOOOOOOWWWWW I NNEEEEEEEEEEEED CAKE! Or perhaps she CAN'T EAT THAT! EWWWW! YUCK! I'M GONNA BARF! NO WAY! and therefore requires an alternative other than wholegrain bread. Namely... what a coincidence... carrot cake... or whatever.

I simply don't view that as a basic human right or a biological need.

I don't judge people who, say, have to prepare separate meals.

I only take issue with those suggesting that I'm controlling, stingy, or lazy when I take a three-meals-a-day approach. Or that somehow, this is something done only to kids.

I don't eat five times a day. I don't get special meals. We all get to make requests. We all can refuse. None of us gets to deny the others their right to eat with the group because they are busy making yet another meal, though, either!

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
EdnaMarie is offline  
#127 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 08:54 AM
 
coffeegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: a glaxy far, far away
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by *LoveBugMama* View Post
This.

I just don`t get what people find unhealthy with grazing. Grazing is just eating smaller amounts of food at a time. What might be unhealthy is WHAT people are eating. Not how many times a day they do it.
I don't think there's anything wrong with grazing in itself. But I kind of agree with what the previous poster you were responding to said, about how it would be a problem in their house if a child passed on every set meal and instead only wanted to snack. Especially if you're lucky enough to have family meals, at least some of the time. Family breakfast/brunch on the weekends, family dinner at night, etc. I know not everyone can do this. But I think it's a great tradition. And having a completely unstructured, individualized eating plan for each person would seem (to me) to kind of work against the family meal concept.

That's the main reason I'm more in favor of structured meals and snacks, although I'm by no means militant about it. Exceptions are made on occasion.

caffix.gif
coffeegirl is offline  
#128 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 09:34 AM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
what about changing food patterns.

for instance my once v. good eater is no longer hot on vegetables. she avoids veggies as much as possible at 7. this is a new thing for her.

i also dont bring in the house what i dont want dd to eat. however she is allowed a treat with adults whenever she is around my friends and its no holds bar at that time. so she had skittles and starburst for snack yesterday.

but no. dd has never gone to bed hungry. its just the two of us and rarely does dd refuse the food.

i have also seen her taste buds change.

what she refused when she was little she totally and happily eats now.

 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#129 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
I must have very abnormal children, then. Given free access to food, they are like goldfish. They will just eat and eat and eat and eat until the food is gone. For ten years we had an open pantry policy. We simply can no longer afford it. And after being married for 15 years and mothering for 11, I know my way around a budget, a coupon organizer, and a surplus outlet. It's not a matter of me being better organized, it's a matter of them eating the food until it's gone. And I'm not willing to say "Tough crap, then, I guess we're out of snacks." That seems crueler to me than structured mealtimes and snacktimes with steady alternatives available.

ETA: I don't think there's a one size fits all method for this. There are many contributing factors-- our past experiences with food, family size, budget, family culture, health needs, etc. I think there are many different choices along the continuum that could be done with love and gentleness, and I don't think one is right and one is wrong. I think it's a matter of finding what works for everyone in your family. As long as you are not using food as a punishment (You didn't do what I want so now I won't let you eat), I think it's fine.
My brothers are like this still. At 26 and 23 its the family joke that they will eat you out of house and home - and with my older brother anyway its just about true!
Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#130 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 11:28 AM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 41,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thyra View Post
My brothers are like this still. At 26 and 23 its the family joke that they will eat you out of house and home - and with my older brother anyway its just about true!
Well, I do have 3 boys. Although the girl child can put it away too.

Seriously, I think it probably has to do with metabolism as well. My kids can eat like a horse and burn it off quickly. Left to self-regulate their food, my food budget would have to be way higher than it is now. By having three steady meals and three steady snack times a day, they have the energy they need to keep them growing and their bellies are never empty. Like I said before, if a kid every came and said "Mama, I'm hungry," my mama heart wouldn't allow me to turn them away. But I would also feel comfortable saying "Have yogurt. Have a cheese stick. Have honey bread." And if they're not hungry enough to eat that, they're not that hungry. I don't cater to my whims and go out get stuff just because I have a craving for it either. Well, I do right now, but I'm pregnant with twins. All bets are off.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#131 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 11:45 AM
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,493
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Well, I do have 3 boys. Although the girl child can put it away too.

Seriously, I think it probably has to do with metabolism as well. My kids can eat like a horse and burn it off quickly. Left to self-regulate their food, my food budget would have to be way higher than it is now. By having three steady meals and three steady snack times a day, they have the energy they need to keep them growing and their bellies are never empty. Like I said before, if a kid every came and said "Mama, I'm hungry," my mama heart wouldn't allow me to turn them away. But I would also feel comfortable saying "Have yogurt. Have a cheese stick. Have honey bread." And if they're not hungry enough to eat that, they're not that hungry. I don't cater to my whims and go out get stuff just because I have a craving for it either. Well, I do right now, but I'm pregnant with twins. All bets are off.
Us, too.

My kids can really pack it away, and dh is even worse. I don't try to limit food if there is extra, but I'll make smaller portions, and when it's done, it's done. It's also something I learned to do for myself to keep myself from overeating after I had weight issues about 5-6 years ago. But I talk to the kids about these things and nutrition-they know all about vitamins and healthy fats and whole foods-probably more than your average kid out there. But I certainly don't let them free range the fridge anymore. That turned sour when we were spending over $1000 a month on food and still not having enough for meals.

After growing more food, though, I let them freerange anything we grow, provided they share (i.e. if there are strawberries, split them, don't shove them all in your mouth when you see your siblings approach!). They love this tactic, but it's not always been possible. We have a yard for the first time in like 5-6 years! Honestly I look at what a lot of people say about letting their kids eat whatever they have and how wonderful it works for them, and good for them. But that is NOT reality for every family and every child. I doubt any of us here want our children to go hungry as punishment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
But most kids who live in families that eat regular meals as a family almost never are hungry or have to wait for meals. They get meals three times a day, nutritious meals, and healthy snacks.

Not being the sole decider of what kind of food you eat and when does not mean you must be hungry often. It might happen occasionally, but then you learn to suck it up and just eat what everyone is eating. If that sounds harsh, that is how like, 99% of the world lives, and it's not only out of deprivation.

FWIW, my child is 60th % weight for height right now. So I guess she's getting what she needs!
I agree. Growing up, I ate when food was offered, but we were also really poor and so I was thankful to even have food. I still have a lot of food insecurity and don't let a single drop of food go to waste anymore. I wasn't offered free range anything as a kid except my grandma's grape vines and I ate at family meals and a few snacks we ate together until I was old enough that I did all the food stuff in the family (long story). I do know what hunger is like having had many times in my life where a can of ravioli a day was shared and all we had. I would never let my kids go through that. It also doesn't mean I need to feel bad for not letting them have free access at all hours to all of the food.

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is offline  
#132 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 03:21 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
My kids can eat when they're hungry.

They can eat what we have. We have bread or a meal for the family.

They can't eat, let me remember what the more recent demands were... Nutella sandwich (recalled from months prior), ice cream and blueberry pancakes (and no we don't stock these in the fridge, sorry everyone ), chickpeas (we didn't have any), almonds (didn't have any), waffles (she was offered pancakes, and we don't have a waffle iron).

They eat what we have. That is the SAME as for my husband and I. I don't waste my time cooking myself special food if my husband asked for pilaf, or if my daughter wanted macaroni and (you guessed it) chickpeas. I just eat it.

My children don't refuse once or twice a week. I'd say it's once a month at most that my child will refuse the whole meal. Once a week she tests the rule, ("Let's just see, maybe TONIGHT she'll make me waffles with powdered sugar and ice-cream on them!" (She saw this on TV once.))

And once a week she eats her meal a little later than the rest of us, when it becomes apparent that if she doesn't, waffles (and a waffle iron) will not magically appear.

Maybe once a month, she flat out refuses and doesn't want bread, either.

I think you are perhaps envisioning a scenario in which if a child does not have full control over what she eats at every moment of the day, the child will be deprived somehow. Like, she might NEED CARROT CAKE RIGHT NOW MOMMY NOW MOMMY NOOOOOOOOOWWWWW I NNEEEEEEEEEEEED CAKE! Or perhaps she CAN'T EAT THAT! EWWWW! YUCK! I'M GONNA BARF! NO WAY! and therefore requires an alternative other than wholegrain bread. Namely... what a coincidence... carrot cake... or whatever.

I simply don't view that as a basic human right or a biological need.

I don't judge people who, say, have to prepare separate meals.

I only take issue with those suggesting that I'm controlling, stingy, or lazy when I take a three-meals-a-day approach. Or that somehow, this is something done only to kids.

I don't eat five times a day. I don't get special meals. We all get to make requests. We all can refuse. None of us gets to deny the others their right to eat with the group because they are busy making yet another meal, though, either!
First, I think you are ignoring the fact that my post about metabolism was responding to a post (I don't think by you) that specifically mentioned "once or twice a week".

Second, I do consider food to be a basic human necessity. No matter how you try and twist it around, if there is food in the house at that moment there is no reason for anyone in that house to go hungry. Even a two year old (as someone previously stated theirs does, I believe) is capable of getting their own snack when things are set up right.

You don't have to give your kids free range on everything in the house, make huge meals every time they feel hungry, or go out and buy junk when they ask for it in order to avoid them going hungry. All you have to do is have some ready made snacks in a place where either they can access it themselves, or you can just put some on a plate and give it to them. DS has his own collection of safe, healthy, snacking food that is easily accessible to him. He's not even 2 yet and doesn't need to ask me for a snack unless it's something a bit more specialized.

BTW: grains generally only fill you up for a short period of time. They are too easily digested to stave off hunger for more than an hour.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#133 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 03:24 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with grazing in itself. But I kind of agree with what the previous poster you were responding to said, about how it would be a problem in their house if a child passed on every set meal and instead only wanted to snack. Especially if you're lucky enough to have family meals, at least some of the time. Family breakfast/brunch on the weekends, family dinner at night, etc. I know not everyone can do this. But I think it's a great tradition. And having a completely unstructured, individualized eating plan for each person would seem (to me) to kind of work against the family meal concept.

That's the main reason I'm more in favor of structured meals and snacks, although I'm by no means militant about it. Exceptions are made on occasion.
You could have snacks with the family. Everyday after school, during the school year DD, ds and I usually sit down and have a snack together. Big meals aren't the only time eating can be a social activity.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#134 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 03:32 PM
 
kittywitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 13,493
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
You could have snacks with the family. Everyday after school, during the school year DD, ds and I usually sit down and have a snack together. Big meals aren't the only time eating can be a social activity.
We homeschool, but this is what we do. We keep things like dry fruit, pretzels, etc. for snack time between lunch and dinner and before bed. We eat snack together usually unless it's been a busy day and someone is hungry.

AP Mom to 5 knit.gifhomeschool.giftoddler.gif
 
  

kittywitty is offline  
#135 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 04:10 PM
ssh
 
ssh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
I don't eat five times a day. I don't get special meals. We all get to make requests. We all can refuse. None of us gets to deny the others their right to eat with the group because they are busy making yet another meal, though, either!
You should eat small quantities of food 5 or 6 times a day. It's much healthier than 3 big meals. Becoming really hungry makes people overeat, that with a lowered metabolism from not eating often enough can cause obesity. I've never recommended special meals, just access to food whenever a child is hungry. Also when food has never been treated as a behavior issue you don't usually have bad behavior about food.
ssh is offline  
#136 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 04:40 PM
 
prothyraia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Borean Tundra
Posts: 2,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
But if the 3.5 doesn't eat, too bad. Sometimes, this results in her going to the park or to bed on an empty or near-empty stomach.

Is that like, super harsh? .....
Now, I KNOW that the child may go somewhat hungry for up to three days. My feeling is, that if this child is otherwise typical, they WILL eat other foods when they are really hungry.

Is that like, really harsh?
Honestly, yes, I think it is.
I don't think parents are under any obligation to be short order cooks, or provide an unlimited variety of foods. But saying "it's after dinner, you may only have bread" when there are other foods in the house that don't require preparation (cheese, nuts, fruit, yogurt, leftovers, etc.) is overly controlling, imo. (you did ask)

What if the child is going through a growth spurt, and is craving extra fat, protein, calcium, vitamin C, or some other nutrient that doesn't happen to be in bread? Why does a parent's arbitrary decision of what is an appropriate snack override a child asking for a different healthy option?

Is it the end of the world to not have immediate access to something your body is legitimately demanding at that moment? No. Is a three year old capable of thinking ahead and deciding to eat extra chicken at dinner because she's really hungry for protein today because she's putting on extra muscle mass but can only have bread later? No. Does this set up a situation where children are encouraged to eat even if they're not hungry, because there won't be anything appropriate later? Yes. Is that particularly healthy? No.
prothyraia is offline  
#137 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
EdnaMarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
You should eat small quantities of food 5 or 6 times a day. It's much healthier than 3 big meals. Becoming really hungry makes people overeat, that with a lowered metabolism from not eating often enough can cause obesity. I've never recommended special meals, just access to food whenever a child is hungry. Also when food has never been treated as a behavior issue you don't usually have bad behavior about food.
See, I've never seen any large study that says that. And besides, three meals and two snacks is five...

And since my children choose their snacktimes, they always do have access to snacks when they're hungry.

I'm going to be honest- I really get annoyed at the suggestion that all behavior issues are caused by the parent. Sometimes, a child just picks a random thing to get into a power struggle over. However, we don't have issues with food.

My purpose in starting this thread was to find out whether allowing my child to experience this (rare, somewhat painful but certainly not unbearable) natural consequence of not eating with the family was too much.

Kind of like when people ask whether it's too much to ask a toddler to endure the real natural consequence of walking up the slide. I mean, if it's a small slide, they're not really going to break their neck. But it might hurt.

Do you let them, or not?

However that is not how it's panning out.

Quote:
What if the child is going through a growth spurt, and is craving extra fat, protein, calcium, vitamin C, or some other nutrient that doesn't happen to be in bread?
She can eat her dinner!

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
EdnaMarie is offline  
#138 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 05:28 PM
 
prothyraia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Borean Tundra
Posts: 2,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
She can eat her dinner!
Well of course!
But if she's hungry again two hours later, I don't think she should be limited to just bread. The same if she isn't hungry and doesn't eat much at dinner and then realizes later that wow, that chicken actually would be really awesome right now.

I don't think only having bread, or going to bed hungry, is really a natural consequence of not eating dinner. It's a parent imposed consequence, because the parent is the one preventing them from going into the pantry and getting out the nuts/raisens/whatever (either by making them inaccessible or just saying no).

If I'm not hungry at dinner time, I don't force myself to eat the whole thing just because there won't be any food later. I listen to my body and eat a little, and then if I'm hungry later I help myself to some other food that's in the house. I expect my kids to do the same. It doesn't involve any more work on my part, so why do I care if they eat almonds or cheese or bread?
prothyraia is offline  
#139 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 05:28 PM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't think children just pick random things to get into a power struggle with. I think kids, like all humans, have a natural inclination to not agree with every single thing any given adult believes. It becomes a power struggle when the adult tries to push their opinions on a child, who's only means of arguing in their favour is to refuse to comply.

In a power struggle between an adult and a child, you can't expect a child to behave like and adult, you can expect an adult to behave like and adult though. When it comes to food, the adult thing to do is understand that you 1) have no control over another persons eating 2) you shouldn't have complete control over another persons eating and 3) no matter how old, other people have a right to access food when they are hungry whether "they should have eaten dinner" or not.

As for "she can eat her dinner", the dinner may not have what she needs or is craving at that given time. Add to that, the fact that growth spurts require more of these things than the rest of a persons life. I mean that to the extreme too. DD for the most part is not a huge eater, but when it comes time to grow she can (and occasionally will) eat more that DH and I combined without gaining an ounce!

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
#140 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 05:41 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My kids are pretty good eaters, and picky at the same time. I very rarely make an "alternative" meal, but I do try to include at least one thing they really like in each meal. If they eat just the one thing, fine. If they want more of the one thing (mainly this rule is for my 3 yo), they must eat a little more of the other things on their plate. I am lenient on this rule though. If I can see that he is still hungry, but will not touch the other things on his plate tonight, I will just give him more of the prefered item. It is more of a strong suggestion.
It sounds like you offer a good variety, and include their favorites often. I don't think that sounds too harsh...
there have been a couple times when my ds has gone to bed with an empty tummy, because, while he liked the things on his plate, wouldn't eat them. (maybe because he was holding out for dessert, or w/e). In that case, sorry.
But if I am making tacos (something my ds will not touch), I will make an alternative for him.
bluebirdiemama is offline  
#141 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 05:59 PM
ssh
 
ssh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Eating isn't a behavior issue it's how we get fuel to be able to stay alive and function. Regular nutrition classes teach that 5 or 6 small meals instead of 3 large ones are healthier. It's not new or controversial opinion just basic human nutrition. A class would also go into how much carbs., protein, specific nutrients you need at different ages and each day. Little kids have very small stomachs and rather high metabolisms so they need food often.

You did ask if it was too harsh letting a 3 year old go to bed hungry and several of us said yes it is ..... or yes it is unhealthy. I've given my reasons from a health based approach instead of saying it's disrespectful, mean or controlling. But, hey, it's also not nice to withhold food from a hungry person. I assumed since you asked you might not be sure if it was or not, so i gave you reasons why I thought it was unhealthy.

In your last post you said "And since my children choose their snacktimes, they always do have access to snacks when they're hungry." . This contradicts your earlier posts where you said your DC wasn't allowed to snack after dinner. And would also mean your 3 year old could snack instead of going to bed hungry. You say in your last post that you don't have issues with food. Well your 3 year old might disagree on those one or two nights a week she's going to bed or the park hungry.

I'm going to assume you understand what I've been saying in response to your questions and that you just don't like my answers.
ssh is offline  
#142 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Thalia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by *LoveBugMama* View Post
This.

I just don`t get what people find unhealthy with grazing. Grazing is just eating smaller amounts of food at a time. What might be unhealthy is WHAT people are eating. Not how many times a day they do it.
It can be unhealthy if you have an eating disorder like compulsive overeating, like I do, because the amounts are not likely to be small, but they will be frequent, and unlike most people, you can't rely on your body to tell you when you're full or satisfied, because it is not just about the food. It's like telling an alcoholic to self-regulate with alcohol. In those cases, having some structure (when to eat, how much to eat) can be very helpful.

I don't know if my daughter has the same food issues I do. Mine, as far as I can tell, are genetic and not due to the way my parents parented me. They started very early. There are some indications that DD may have the same abnormal reaction to sugar that I do. But I don't think it's possible to tell this early on.

However, because it is a possibility, the issue of how much to eat and when to eat and what is true hunger vs. emotional eating is very very tricky for me. I choose to err on the side of offering healthy foods that my daughter likes at three meals a day, plus a limited set of healthy snacks during the day when she asks for them, rather than a grazing approach.

There are some foods I won't let her eat, and there are times when I do ask her to wait to eat, depending on the context. If she is about to go to bed, and is in her pajamas and has already brushed her teeth, for example, I do ask her to wait until the morning, because a snack at that point would push her bedtime back by 30 minutes, and she needs sleep as much as she needs food. Usually she goes to bed within an hour after eating, and I don't limit how much she eats at meals, so this is rarely an issue but it does happen sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
ETA: I don't think there's a one size fits all method for this. There are many contributing factors-- our past experiences with food, family size, budget, family culture, health needs, etc. I think there are many different choices along the continuum that could be done with love and gentleness, and I don't think one is right and one is wrong. I think it's a matter of finding what works for everyone in your family. As long as you are not using food as a punishment (You didn't do what I want so now I won't let you eat), I think it's fine.
I couldn't agree more.

thalia loves Jesus and DH wordyeight and DD#1 : 8/2007 and DD#2 9/2010
and remembering: little turtle 5/23/2006 and poppyseed 7/15/2009
Thalia is offline  
#143 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
EdnaMarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Eating isn't a behavior issue it's how we get fuel to be able to stay alive and function. Regular nutrition classes teach that 5 or 6 small meals instead of 3 large ones are healthier.
I totally agree with the first part. The second part, I have never heard referenced to a proper study. I've seen it in random "nutrition" websites but I don't know anyone who actually does that who does not have a weight problem.

Quote:
It's not new or controversial opinion just basic human nutrition. A class would also go into how much carbs., protein, specific nutrients you need at different ages and each day. Little kids have very small stomachs and rather high metabolisms so they need food often.
Most of that's based on the food pyramid which was designed by the farming industry. I completely disagree it's basic human nutrition. People around the world tend to eat three or four meals per day.

Quote:
In your last post you said "And since my children choose their snacktimes, they always do have access to snacks when they're hungry." . This contradicts your earlier posts where you said your DC wasn't allowed to snack after dinner.
THat is a good point. I guess it comes down to a very specific idea I have about what constitutes a meal or a snack.

Quote:
Well your 3 year old might disagree on those one or two nights a week she's going to bed or the park hungry.
I'm sorry, but I thought that I said that she almost never goes to bed hungry- perhaps once a month? Because she eats what we all eat, when we all eat it.

Quote:
I'm going to assume you understand what I've been saying in response to your questions and that you just don't like my answers.
I have been reading posts fast so some of it I've missed, but some of it I genuinely disagree with. I don't find "it's just a fact" convincing evidence of anything, much less a uniquely American eating plan that is supposed to make us healthier.
Quote:
no matter how old, other people have a right to access food when they are hungry whether "they should have eaten dinner" or not.

As for "she can eat her dinner", the dinner may not have what she needs or is craving at that given time. Add to that, the fact that growth spurts require more of these things than the rest of a persons life.
I don't agree that people who refuse, for example, four or five foods served to them (and since meals consist of a grain, a protein, fruits and veggies, plus bread, or maybe even a sauce, that's a lot to choose from), should be allowed to use hunger as a lever to get a preferred luxury food, so I guess I disagree with the first part. If a child doesn't eat dinner when we eat it, in principle she could eat it later. She has done that, in fact.

As for cravings, I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it. So far, she has only ever craved sugar, LOL. When she wants something, she eats a lot of it when it's served. So then she doesn't have a craving for it later when it's not there. I do try hard to balance our meals.

It's not that the stay-at-home-parent gets to stay home with the kids. The kids get to stay home with a parent. Lucky Mom to DD1 (4 y) and DD2 (18 mo), Wife to Mercenary Dad
EdnaMarie is offline  
#144 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 06:33 PM
 
mistymama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,964
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post
She can eat her dinner!
But what if she's eaten her dinner and gets hungry again at bedtime? Would you let her eat again, or assume she just didn't eat enough when she was supposed to?

My son is 7 and seems to be going through a huge growth spurt - some days he is eating breakfast at 7am and another one at 9am - then like last night, he ate some dinner, but was hungry again right before bed. I made him a sandwich and sliced some apples.

I can't quite get the idea of sending your child to bed hungry or without food they ask for simply because they did not eat at the "correct" time. I know I don't always get hungry at the same time as my husband - often I'll sit with him while he eats dinner but not eat myself until an hour or two later.

I don't feel food should be a battle - and I think being overly controlling does just that. I trust that my child knows his body and will eat when he is hungry, and only what his body needs, not more. Obesity runs in my family and I certainly don't want to encourage anything other than him listening to his hunger cues and following them. No eating just because it's time, or because he wont get any later. No way.

I don't understand why it's a big deal to let your toddler have a few healthy snacks if she's hungry before bed. I'm pregnant right now and I can tell you, I need a snack before bed - dinner does NOT hold me over. I also don't tend to eat large amounts at any one sitting which I don't have time to link to research, but studies HAVE found that to be healthier for your metabolism than large meals without snacking.

Candacepeace.gif, Married to dh   guitar.gif, Mom to ds (8) biggrinbounce.gif , Gavin candle.gif (9/30/10 - 12/19/10) and cautiously expecting our rainbow1284.gif 4-29-12

mistymama is offline  
#145 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 06:44 PM
 
Drummer's Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 11,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think what people are imagining is a 3 yo who asks for something to eat a couple hours after dinner and is told: no, sorry, you should have ate more at dinner. You can eat again at breakfast.

That does seem harsh, to me, as a mother of a 3 yo. He often will eat his dinner (or eat a good portion of it) and then tell me his 'tummy is hungry' later on. He might eat a bowl of oatmeal and a piece of fruit at that point. From what I can tell, he's listening to his body - which is healthy. Sometimes he's not really hungry when dinner is ready, so he picks a it and drinks his milk. I don't see any point in having any kind of natural or imposed consequence and telling him an hour later that it's too bad he's now hungry, he should have ate when he had access to food (hungry or interested or not). Kids, especially little kids, don't really have to do that, yk? Not in a home where there is at least something available to offer them to eat.

ribboncesarean.gif cesareans happen.
Drummer's Wife is online now  
#146 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 07:14 PM
 
ivymae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Washington
Posts: 2,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If they don't eat because they honestly don't like the food, after they've tried a bite I am willing to make them a quick sandwich, or let them choose from the leftovers in the fridge. I'll probably make this dinner again, and they will probably have to try a bite again, because more often then not, after it's one of the regular meals, they will magically start liking it.

If my kids don't eat dinner because they are playing the power struggle (I know they like it, they just want treats), I'll ask them to sit with us while we eat, and then closer to bedtime i will offer then cheese and apples, or something equally nutritious. Mine are 2 and 4, so they don't really connect missing dinner and then eating a snack later - they just know they throwing a fit at dinner didn't get them what they wanted, and (unrelatedly) they had a snack later because their bellies hurt. If they don't eat they are cranky mean kids, and that just sucks for everyone.

older kids are harder, but maybe just have opportunities after dinner for them to eat, without it being a big to-do. I used to make my dad's lunch with my mom each night, and would catch myself snacking on lunch meat and fruit while we stood in the kitchen and talked.

Ivory, partner to Tom, mama to Ella (12/9/05), Alice (12/8/07), and our newest addition, Rebecca (4/1/10).
ivymae is offline  
#147 of 303 Old 06-23-2010, 07:29 PM
 
a-sorta-fairytale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hangin' with the raisin girls
Posts: 5,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
As for "she can eat her dinner", the dinner may not have what she needs or is craving at that given time. Add to that, the fact that growth spurts require more of these things than the rest of a persons life. I mean that to the extreme too. DD for the most part is not a huge eater, but when it comes time to grow she can (and occasionally will) eat more that DH and I combined without gaining an ounce!
Oh i so see the growth spurt thing in our house. DD(6) is much more picky then ds(2) and she is also a much lighter eater then he is. We usually serve him twice as much as we do her. But if she is hitting a growth spurt or has done a ton of physical training (this week she has volleyball camp and karate EVERY DAY - totaling 4-5 hours of heavy physical work each day) she will eat way more then i can at 9 months pregnant.

She normally doesnt eat much meat either but when she is growing (or like this week - with the camps) she will eat a ton more. She asked for steak monday and ribs yesterday. She ate more of each then dh who is 6ft4 and very muscled.
Neither was in the plan or budget but we try to listen to all of our bodies when it comes to specific nutrient cravings. It is hard for both me and dd to get enough protein so if we are craving meat or beans dh is very happy to oblige.
a-sorta-fairytale is offline  
#148 of 303 Old 06-24-2010, 01:41 AM
 
peaceful_mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: #12 Grimmauld Place
Posts: 4,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post


Moreover, when I send my kids to bed hungry, and I have a houseful of food, it feels disrespectful to the universe and ungrateful for what I have. I think of mothers around the world who would kill for the food supplies I have. I say a silent prayer of thanks, set aside what else I was doing, and feed my kids.
Oh.....this just seriously made me tear up....(I'm 17 weeks pg, it doesn't take much ) I, too, will set aside whatever I am doing and feed my kids...

Like many on this thread (so far) I have a DH who buys quite a bit of junk and some frustration with them not eating meals and wanting that. (which they don't really do that often, but sometimes yes.)

I am going to start offering healthier ideas more often, rather than just denying the junk. (sometimes I do, other times I'm just ticked about them walking away from a table having barely eaten and whining for food 10 minutes later.)

Is it any different than me not really wanting whatever DH made but eating a little of it and then later, after he goes to work, making myself/us a snack or early dinner of my preferred food of the day? Um. no. (DH works odd hours, we eat lunch together usually as the family meal.)

If i have a right to do that, or my mom (who lives here too) has the right to make herself a bologna sandwich if she doesn't like our dinner...why can't my kid have some cheese and crackers, yogurt and berries, or a sandwich?
I think I could probably find a way to make it easier for them to serve themselves and help the oldest learn to make some things. That would help me a lot actually.

In answer to the original question, though, no, my kids don't go to bed hungry unless it's been their own choice not to eat. (I.E. they chose to eat little/no dinner--which is typically a fruit, veg, carb, and it's always something I'm pretty sure they'll eat--I make some of their favorites that aren't necessarily DH faves since he's not here, and they didn't want an alternative to eating a sweet dessert junk item or chip-type snack.) I *don't* hand out the Cheeto-junk after a refused meal.

lovin DH since 1/04, best mom for my 3 boys 10/04, 11/08, 11/10 one girlie (1/07), and one 13 wk (10/13) just your average :ha ng multigenerational living family!!
peaceful_mama is offline  
#149 of 303 Old 06-24-2010, 03:12 AM
 
coffeegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: a glaxy far, far away
Posts: 839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
You could have snacks with the family. Everyday after school, during the school year DD, ds and I usually sit down and have a snack together. Big meals aren't the only time eating can be a social activity.
Snacking together is great, too. But I'm talking more about the problem being with individualized eating habits overall, rather than just the question of is it a meal or a snack, you know what I mean?

Many people have brought up in this thread that they have no or very little structure to eating and food in their house-- whenever anyone is hungry, they eat, and it doesn't have to be at breakfasttime, lunchtime, dinnertime, a pre-set snack time, etc. Now unless everyone in the house just happens to get hungry randomly at the same times, I don't see how this approach would be condusive to sitting down to regular family meals (or snacks) together.

But if some of yall have found a way to make it work and if everyone in the family is able to synchronize their grazing to some extent, then more power to ya. In my family, it doesn't seem to work that way when we're all in the habit of "grazing" rather than having scheduled meals. Instead, we tend to just grab something from the kitchen and go off on our own. That's why personally I'd like to get back to the more scheduled way of doing things and restore the family meal tradition at least to some extent in my own family.

caffix.gif
coffeegirl is offline  
#150 of 303 Old 06-24-2010, 05:35 AM
 
MusicianDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tuponia
Posts: 10,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't really see how we can expect children to not have individualized eating habits. Every person is different.

We allow grazing all day. We also have 1 set snack time every week day and we sit down to a family meal 6 nights a week. It's not impossible to have that without controlling your child's food so much that they would go to bed hungry.

malesling.GIFMutant Papa to DD (12)hippie.gif and DS (2)babyf.gif, married to DHribbonrainbow.gif
If it looks like I'm trying to pick a fight... I'm not, I'm rarely that obvious.hammer.gif
MusicianDad is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off