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#1 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Today, after DD (4.5) got home from preschool, she disappeared for awhile. I didn't think much of it and since DS and I were eating lunch (DD eats at school) and I wasn't hearing any crashes, I didn't check on her. Well, she eventually comes out of wherever she was and comes over to me. She stands in front of me with her hands behind her back, fluttering her eyelashes and swaying a bit. Then she starts telling me she loves me and giving me hugs. My immediate thought is, what did she do?! LOL Probably because she got that from me--I do it to DH if I've accidnetly broken something of his or lost it or just to be silly and act like something I know isn't a big deal is a huge deal. Then I dismiss myself as being cynical and just enjoy the next hug. Until I see her hand...which has makeup caked inbetween all the fingers and in the creases. I have her show me both hands and sure enough, makeup residue up both arms to her elbows! She was honest with me when I asked and she did not make a huge mess. The only thing that needed to be done was a good scrub of her hands to get the last of the makeup off. She did waste a good amount of makeup, though.

 

I'm really not sure what's an appropriate punishment for this. There's no real natural consequence since there wasn't a mess to clean up. She doesn't get an allowance so asking for her to pay for what she wasted isn't a real option. I'm not all that upset-I'd be far more upset if she had lied to me about it or tried to hide it from me. I see her coming over and acting the way she did as a lead up to an admission since that's what always happens from the person who's behavior she was modeling (ahem...whistling.gif). I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that.

 

BUT-she did know that she's not supposed to play in my makeup nor is she allowed to play in the bathroom (I thought she was in her room, had I realized she was in the bathroom, I would've intervened.) I don't want to send the message that this is ok as long as you are honest.

 

Any ideas?!


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#2 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 12:06 PM
 
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Well, my first inclination would be that she has to stay in the same room as you or another responsible adult for some length of time. If you need to cook dinner, she gets to play in the kitchen, of course you'll go to her room first so she can choose a toy or two, but you aren't going to interrupt what you're doing to let her get another one.
 

She doesn't need to be punished, she needs to be supervised, so I'd supervise her more closely for awhile.

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#3 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 12:16 PM
 
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We talk about what could have happened and why the rule is what it is.  So for your situation, I would explain that she was lucky that the make up didn't get all over the carpet.  Does she realize the carpet cost money to either clean or replace?  (Not asking you that, just saying what I would say to my kids.)  That the makeup cost money and all the make up she used was now wasted.  (We talk a lot about not wasting and recycling.)  That I appreciate her honestly.  At the same time the rule about no playing in the bathroom is for x, y, z reasons and playing with make up is not okay.  I would also say having the bathroom door open is a privledge that she earned by following the rules.  But if it's too hard to follow the rules, I can keep the bathroom door shut until she feels comfortable following the rules.  (And by shut, I mean locked.) 

 

(I know to some people it's going to sound like that is a threat.  I don't mean it like that and I don't say it like that.  I just figure it's fairly logical consequence to not following the rules - she needs to be supervised in the bathroom.  The reason I tell my children that is because - I feel - it allows them to be part of making the choice.  They can either follow the rules or they know what the consequences to not following the rules.)

 

I think she did a marvelous job being honest.  (Can she breath on my youngest please??  ;) )

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#4 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 12:17 PM
 
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I don't think I'd punish, either. My son did something like this recently. Although he went all the way through toddlerhood without scribbling on walls or floor or furniture, now he's 7 and he suddenly decorated the bathroom door with little spiders (he loves spiders), all done in pencil. He did it while sitting on the potty, which is his art studio. (we keep a sketch pad and markers in the bathroom for this)

 

I just said, wow, those are cute spiders. You know you're not supposed to draw on the door, right? Then, realizing that in that very same bathroom my own seaside mural covers the walls (i.e. Mama put HER art on the wall), I said "you know, if you'd like to make some creative wall art like a mural or something, I can help you with that. But please don't just draw on the wall."

 

With your daughter, I would probably have said something to the effect that "I appreciate your being honest. Now I want you to come and help me clean your hands" (or whatever needed cleaning). While we were cleaning, I'd then say something like "You sure like to play with makeup, don't you. Do you like the colors or the feel of it squishing in your fingers" [conversation would ensue]. Then "You understand that the make up belongs to me, and it upsets me to have it ruined and wasted. You must use your own makeup for experimentation. If you want me to buy some for you to play with, you need to ask me. Ok?"

 

I don't know, maybe 4 and a half is a little young for that level of logic. But if that's the case then yes, I'd recommend you keep stuff like that out of her reach until she can understand. Because if she's too young to understand, then punishing is just likely to put distance between the two of you when it didn't seem like she meant it maliciously.

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#5 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 12:31 PM
 
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It seems to me that she may have broken the rule on purpose. Her behavior afterwards screams"mommy I want special attention" since you eat after she gets home with your other dc. So for me, I would find out if it upset her that she was not included in the meal. Maybe this was her way of getting a little of that attention rather than being in her room alone. I don't know if eating after she gets home is normal or this was a one time thing but this would be my first thought in this situation. So I probably wouldn't really set a consequence but would try to prevent the need in the future.

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#6 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 12:44 PM
 
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In my house, if she was honest, since DD1 is NOT always honest these days, I would probably speak to her about it and ask her what she thought would be an appropriate consequence.  I'm  not that possessive of my make-up though she knows it's off limits.  I'd probably go with whatever she said, unless it was not a neutral or negative consequence, but a reward, LOL!  Or maybe just a reminder and let her know that if she destroyed my stuff again, I'd ask her to give up something she liked for awhile to show she understood how serious it was.

 

 

 


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#7 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 04:38 PM
 
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I think an appropriate consequence is that she has to stay within eyesight of you while you and ds eat lunch for a week or so. AND that the make-up is stored out of her reach. Maybe put down some lotion that she can 'pretend' is make-up. That's what we did with dd when she was that age.

 

But really, she was exploring and she's 4. She might have 'known' better, but I bet she didn't think that far ahead. I don't think further punishment is warranted.

 


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#8 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the responses! We did talk about not destroying other peoples belongings and how she can't shut herself and play in the bathroom. I didn't take it any further than that esp since I want to promote her telling the truth. She used to lie a lot to try and get out of things so this is a HUGE improvement. We did also discuss that if she plays in the bathroom again, she'll have to be supervised since I don't want a lot of things wasted. I've been catching playing in the bathroom a lot. While I was thinking about this this afternoon, I realized that I had thought to myself a few days ago that the soap seemed really low so I'm thinking she's been wasting soap, too. Anyway, since she likes her privacy in the bathroom that should will hopefully deter her from any future activities.

 

Petie-I don't think it was an attention thing. She normally will sit with us while we eat lunch and discuss her day or play nearby while still interacting. Lately she's even had a little snack while we eat so I don't think its likely that it's a matter of feeling left out. Like I said above, she's just gotten into the habit of dwadling and playing the bathroom. shrug.gif


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#9 of 20 Old 11-19-2010, 06:54 PM
 
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OK, so the eating is normal, the being alone was out of place.  Gotcha.  Then it makes sense that she is just getting to be a little too curious.  OK well it was a thought.


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#10 of 20 Old 11-20-2010, 09:48 AM
 
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If you do find that trouble comes mostly when she plays alone while you eat, you could have her tell you stories or sing songs for you or dance or anything she enjoys while you eat.

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#11 of 20 Old 11-21-2010, 12:56 AM
 
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Is she supposed to enter your room?  Or touch your things without asking you?

 

You have to tell her what's allowed, and what's not.  "Because if you do these again, you will make me very upset and sad.  Do you wish to upset me?"  ~Shaking head~  "Promise you won't blah blah...?"  ~Nodding head~

 

Next step, tell her the consequences of breaking her promise. "If you break your promise, you will have no TV and you will have to go back to your room." (She can pick up books to flip through but no toys for example).  Say it nicely and firmly.

 

Encourage your child to speak up and ask, instead of finding things out by herself.  You'd rather show her what your belonging are about than for her to play with things behind your back (and admit it later).  And definitely lock up your private stuff so they are out of reach of her (including any make-up you keep in your bathroom).

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#12 of 20 Old 11-21-2010, 11:25 AM
 
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Next step, tell her the consequences of breaking her promise. "If you break your promise, you will have no TV and you will have to go back to your room." (She can pick up books to flip through but no toys for example).  Say it nicely and firmly.

 

I don't see how taking away TV is an appropriate consequence (or books, or toys, or whatever).  It would seem much more reasonable to ask her to do something symbolic each week to pay back the make-up, such as helping wipe the floors after mopping, to contribute to that.  (Depending on the quality of make-up, actually paying for one piece may be unduly harsh for that age... it could take days at minimum wage to pay for Chanel eyeliner, LOL!)  To me, arbitrary punishments like that are really more about revenge than teaching value.  A la "you hurt me so now I will show you how it feels to hurt".  I'm not saying I've never felt that way, but with a cool head that is not how I want to treat other people.  I think people accept logical consequences with much more responsibility and conviction than random stuff doled out for the sheer purpose of causing discomfort.


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#13 of 20 Old 11-21-2010, 12:30 PM
 
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I wouldn't punish either.  I'd simply tell her that it upsets you because makeup is expensive, and it's not for playing with.  It's real, and it's yours.  

 

If she needs to play with makeup, you can make some for her to experiment with, but she can't use your makeup.   I'm one of those that would buy her kid's makeup though.  I think kids really are interested in it, and it's natural to want to have some.  


So, hows that?  Instead of punishing her, I want you to get her makeup of her own.  LOL.  What a sucker I am, huh?

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#14 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 01:08 PM
 
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Also note that a child who can get into drawers in the bathroom to play with make-up is a child who can be assigned jobs involving putting stuff in drawers.A child who can mush up make up can mush up ingredients for stuffing and the like. (I am soooo annoyed with the editor window, the next sentence is supposed to be a new paragraph.) I would probably put a child lock thingy on the drawer(s) in question though if you really need the stuff to be in those drawers. One child's inappropriate plaything is another child's snack and painting medium.

 

 

 

 

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#15 of 20 Old 11-22-2010, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by lovingly View Post

Is she supposed to enter your room?  Or touch your things without asking you?

  

Encourage your child to speak up and ask, instead of finding things out by herself.  You'd rather show her what your belonging are about than for her to play with things behind your back (and admit it later).  And definitely lock up your private stuff so they are out of reach of her (including any make-up you keep in your bathroom).


The items in question are kept on the counter in the bathroom because there is no other place to put them. The counter does not have drawers, unfortunately. There's really no bathroom storage unless you stash things under the sink and I'm weird and refuse to put my makeup down there!!

 

That said, she is aware that those things are off limit, which is why she came up to me acting all coy, cute and sweet. She knew they were off limits and got into them anyway. Its been set up that way for nearly a year now and this is the first time she's gotten into it, so I don't really expect it to be a long term problem. We do also encourage her to ask to play with things she doesn't normally get to play with. Again, this seems fairly deliberate to me, so I don't expect that to become a serious issuce.
 

 



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Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post

 

Quote:
Next step, tell her the consequences of breaking her promise. "If you break your promise, you will have no TV and you will have to go back to your room." (She can pick up books to flip through but no toys for example).  Say it nicely and firmly.

 

I don't see how taking away TV is an appropriate consequence (or books, or toys, or whatever).  It would seem much more reasonable to ask her to do something symbolic each week to pay back the make-up, such as helping wipe the floors after mopping, to contribute to that.  (Depending on the quality of make-up, actually paying for one piece may be unduly harsh for that age... it could take days at minimum wage to pay for Chanel eyeliner, LOL!)  To me, arbitrary punishments like that are really more about revenge than teaching value.  A la "you hurt me so now I will show you how it feels to hurt".  I'm not saying I've never felt that way, but with a cool head that is not how I want to treat other people.  I think people accept logical consequences with much more responsibility and conviction than random stuff doled out for the sheer purpose of causing discomfort.


The idea of taking something more like tv/stuffed animal etc is what we've done in the past/are doing to an extent now. I consider it a loss of priviledges, not revenge-though I do see your point. That being said, I think its only appropriate in certain situations. Like here, I'd rather implement something related to the situation as opposed to taking away tv time. If she continued to do the activity several times beyond that, then I would try "You do xyz again and I'll have to take away tv time." I guess I'll try whatever tactics I need to (within reason, of course!) to get the situation resolved-if that makes sense. I think this situation stumped me because DD succeeded with the coy show. She was so dang cute and it was so dang funny that I just didn't know how to look at the situation anymore! I needed some insight from someone outside the situation, kwim?

 

Since coming across GD (which has only been in the past few months), I've started implementing some different more GD ideas into our discipiling scenerios with some good success! I don't think I'll ever be non punitive, honestly, but I'm liking how this is working into our life at this point with good results.
 

 



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I wouldn't punish either.  I'd simply tell her that it upsets you because makeup is expensive, and it's not for playing with.  It's real, and it's yours.  

 

If she needs to play with makeup, you can make some for her to experiment with, but she can't use your makeup.   I'm one of those that would buy her kid's makeup though.  I think kids really are interested in it, and it's natural to want to have some.  


So, hows that?  Instead of punishing her, I want you to get her makeup of her own.  LOL.  What a sucker I am, huh?


Ironically enough, Grandma bought her a little thing of play makeup yesterday! She didn't know anything about the story, just picked it up! I don't have a problem w/ DD playing with makeup, its just MY makeup is expensive and I don't want it wasted!! I think I might get some for her for Christmas-one of those cheap things that comes with 40 different eyeshadows, 6 blush shades and 4 lipsticks. I'm not a huge fan of the actual play makeup, its so dang goopy, I wouldn't want to smear it on my face, ya know?! lol.gif
 


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#16 of 20 Old 11-24-2010, 10:07 AM
 
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I use a hanging shoe organizer like this in both our bathrooms:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Over-Door-Clear-Organizer-Storage/dp/B000IXOH7G 

 

You could put your makeup in the upper pockets, and things your kids can use in the lower pockets. Or cut it off so the kids can't reach any pockets.


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#17 of 20 Old 11-24-2010, 01:37 PM
 
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I used one of these in the bathroom for years.

http://www.amazon.com/Jolly-Jumper-Tidy-Nursery-Organizer/dp/B000OR8V5A

 

I suspended it from the shower curtain rod.

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#18 of 20 Old 11-24-2010, 06:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post

 

Quote:
Next step, tell her the consequences of breaking her promise. "If you break your promise, you will have no TV and you will have to go back to your room." (She can pick up books to flip through but no toys for example).  Say it nicely and firmly.

 

I don't see how taking away TV is an appropriate consequence (or books, or toys, or whatever).  It would seem much more reasonable to ask her to do something symbolic each week to pay back the make-up, such as helping wipe the floors after mopping, to contribute to that.  (Depending on the quality of make-up, actually paying for one piece may be unduly harsh for that age... it could take days at minimum wage to pay for Chanel eyeliner, LOL!)  To me, arbitrary punishments like that are really more about revenge than teaching value.  A la "you hurt me so now I will show you how it feels to hurt".  I'm not saying I've never felt that way, but with a cool head that is not how I want to treat other people.  I think people accept logical consequences with much more responsibility and conviction than random stuff doled out for the sheer purpose of causing discomfort.

 

I don't really agree with this....

 

I don't see how taking away the TV or something of that nature is any more arbitrary or any more apt to be "revenge" than any so-called "logical/natural consequence". They are all somewhat punitive consequences that the parent is choosing to give to the child as a form of discipline. The OP could do as you suggested and make the child "pay for" the wasted make-up with a spirit of revenge (rather than a spirit of gentle discipline) just as easily.

 

Anyhow, I agree with other posters that if I were the OP, I wouldn't necessarily punish in this case either, especially since the child was honest about it and apparently being honest was soemthing she'd had issues about previously. I definitely think, in that case, her being honest and admitting what she did certainly mitigates the "crime" and I'd probably just repeat the rule and makes sure she understands that it's a rule and there would be consequences next time if she broke it again. And I might tell her that I appreciated her coming to me and being honest about what she did.


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#19 of 20 Old 11-29-2010, 10:31 AM
 
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No punishing in our family, but we'd definately be dicussing respecting the property of others, relating it back to something she owns to help illustrate the point, etc. Good on her for being so honest! :)


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#20 of 20 Old 11-29-2010, 11:14 AM
 
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When my daughter (now 5) was 2.5-3, she wrecked her share of makeup. At that stage, I handled it like getting into anything else. Supervising her more, time-outs, etc.

 

Around 3 she got into wanting to wear makeup, so that changed things a little. Like your daughter, she didn't make a mess on the floor or anything, she'd just waste makeup and get it all over her hands etc. I sometimes put makeup on her when I do my makeup. Not enough you can really tell she is wearing it or anything. Anyhow, Anyhow, she got into my makeup once, and used up hte blush I'd been putting on her. So,for awhile after that, she'd ask for maekup, and i'd tell her "sorry, the blush I let you use is gone". That worked. And it was true...I had 2 kinds of blush, only one kind that I was ok with putting on her at hte time, and I wans't gonna buy more just for her.

 

I also find that telling her she wrecked something of mine, and that makes me sad works. Again,it's true, and a natural consequence.

 

i also her ya on the no storage space. My makeup is on a shelf above the toilet, so obviously, my daughter can reach it. If i put it up higher, I can't reach it as I am really short.

 

My daughter has play makeup, and now is also allowed to use some of my makeup without asking. The rule is no fuundation, blush, or mascara on her own. She also has stage makeup, (she's in dance) but she isnt allowed ot paly with that. If she wastes the makeup she is allowed to use, or gets into  the other stuff, she'll lose her makeup privileges for awhile.

 

hmm, maybe if your daughter likes playing in the bathroom so much she could start cleaning it? My daughter likes cleaning the bathroom, actually. She uses clorox wipes, or a damp cloth, and wipes down the sink,tub, etc. I don't  make her, it was her idea, and is one of her favourite chores.

 

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