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#121 of 141 Old 04-10-2004, 01:05 PM
 
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Forgot to add, FWIW if I see my own kid doing something that is upsetting to another kid, taking a toy for example. I do say once that grabbing is not nice, would you please give it back? If there is no cooperation, then I will take it away(not grabbing) and give it back. Then my child will inevitably throw a tantruim, then we go home. If the child in question(I have three) is old enough to reason with. I will then explain at h ome what he/she did was not nice and why. We will discuss it(works with 9 year old). But I will not let someone else child continue to cry and be upset so I can "negotiate" with my child. If my child is not mature and logical enough to negotiate with, it is pointless, and toddlers certainly fit that mold.

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#122 of 141 Old 04-10-2004, 05:15 PM
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Why make our young children socialize if we want them to do it by our own standards?
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#123 of 141 Old 04-10-2004, 05:16 PM
 
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Playing nicely, w/o violence is not just a standard......its how we get along in the world (or should)
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#124 of 141 Old 04-10-2004, 07:45 PM
 
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If we do not "make" our children abide by standards, we are doing them a great injustice and when they are released into the REAL world, then them and society will certainly clash. We teach our children to get along with other people and respect them and thier feelings, without that we may as well not have children and if we all taught them that self gratification comes first, there may as well be no world. There would be total chaos as everyone else satisfied theier owns wants. They would be hard pressed to gain empployment, relationships, friendships and would not do well at all in education. May as well let them grow up to live on the land totally isolated from other people. THere is a difference between wants and needs. Learn them. They can learn that thier feelings do matter, but not at the expense of everyone else in the world. I am not t rying to be a bitch, BUt I have more respect for people who are clueless or lazy than people who deliberately teach thier chi ldren such crap. At least they are teachable. They are not purposely doing it. IKids do not know what is best for them or anyone else, it is up to us to teach them. have a feeling some will not listen as they think that tierh childrens feeling come first at all costs. I tried to post nicely and I thought I did quite weill, but some people wont listen.

Leonor, so you are saying if my kid and your kid were on the same playground and mine grabbed a toy that your kid brought from home and I did nothing you would not get mad? Or would you see it as my child imposing his will on yours? I would not grab another persons cell phone and just start using it cause it is there. I think the same needs to be taught to our kids so they can learn to get along in the world and not have everyone hate them. I feel for some kids, it is going to be a rude and rough life.
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#125 of 141 Old 04-10-2004, 08:31 PM
 
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Oh, and I am sorry that you feel I am "making" my kids socialize by taking them out. Socialization is a human need and if you do not beleive that, what are you doing here? This is a form of socialization too. I am teachin my kids to socialize in a way that will not get them shunned by everyone else.

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#126 of 141 Old 04-11-2004, 01:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gidget
If we do not "make" our children abide by standards, we are doing them a great injustice and when they are released into the REAL world... We teach our children to get along with other people and respect them and thier feelings...if we all taught them that self gratification comes first...There would be total chaos as everyone else satisfied their owns wants. THere is a difference between wants and needs. They can learn that thier feelings do matter, but not at the expense of everyone else in the world.
...I would not grab another persons cell phone and just start using it cause it is there. I think the same needs to be taught to our kids so they can learn to get along in the world
She makes a good point.
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#127 of 141 Old 04-11-2004, 09:45 AM
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In the end these parents are doing their own children no favors because they aren't developing the social skills needed to get along with others in school and in the marketplace.

How popular is the kid hogging the swing or battering other kids going to be in Kindergarten?!

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#128 of 141 Old 04-11-2004, 08:03 PM
 
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No, the mom at the library is not doing GD, she is just allowing her son behave the wrong way.
There is a diffence between GD and letting your child getting away with everything.
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#129 of 141 Old 04-12-2004, 04:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by EllieB
I'm all for GD and everything but does anyone else just see people taking it completely too far? I feel like certain places I go mothers are trying so hard to react "correctly" to their kids behavior that they are oblivious to other people's needs. I will give a couple examples.

At the library yesterday, a young (maybe 2.5?) boy was throwing toys at other kids. His mother launched into a big discussion of this not being safe behavior, we must apologize, I don't feel good when you do this etc. Fine. Not 2 minutes later he grabbed onto a girls leg and refused to let go. Again the same discussion (while the kid is still holding onto the girl!) and then a counting to 3 until she "helped" him let go of her. Then he pushed a kid down, same discussion, which lasted at least 5 minutes. The whole time she is telling him if he can't play safe they will have to leave (and not leaving). Finally he pushed my ds (he's 14 mo) down on the floor and again the discussion. She did make him apologize and then they left, but only b/c they were leaving anyway.

How would you react to this? If this is what GD is I guess I don't do it. I would have had a discussion after the 1st incident, if my kid grabbed another kid and wouldn't let go, I would immediately pry him off, I wouldn't let him hang on while I negotiated w/ him! And if he pushed or hit anyone we would leave right away. That's how I react b/c the library is for everyone, and I don't feel my child (acting this way) should be allowed to stay if he is bothering other children and interfering w/ their fun.

Example #2. A child takes a toy away from my dd. The mom, seeing this, launches into a long discussion about this not being ok, let's give it back, do you want me to help you give it back, etc. End result, the kid doesn't give it back and my dd is upset. If my kid takes something from another kid, I will first ask her nicely to give it back, then tell her if she cannot play nicely we can't stay (these aren't personally owned toys). And if she won't give it back, I take it from her and give it back myself!

I just think I need to draw a line somewhere between my concern for my kids feelings and needs and those of other people. As much as possible I want to keep them from disturbing and hurting other kids either emotionally or physically. Where do you draw the line? Are these examples proper GD in your mind or going too far? Just curious...
No these are not GD in my book its permissive parenting. Example one I would first physically stop the throwing. This can be done quickly and effectly but without violence, yelling ect. Next I would take my child aside and THEN quiety but firmly explain again the rules and how she is expected to behave, Third we replace good with bad, I'd help her find an activity she could do. Finially I'd restate the rules and let her know if she couldn't "obey" Then we would have to leave. If it happened again Home we would go.

Example two, IF I see my DD take something from another, I give it back yes I try to help her return it but I don' take all day about it. I then (if old enough) explain that so and so is playing with the toy and when shes done then she can play with it (IF its a public toy) Then replace bad with good I redirrect her to a toy she can have.


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#130 of 141 Old 04-13-2004, 02:05 AM
 
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Originally posted by akirasmama
As an adult *I* have left places that were too loud and rowdy, or where 1 or 2 people were behaving in a way that I found unpleasant. It might not be "fair" or "right" but it is life. In situations with other children I do the same. If a child is repeatedly agressive against my child and it is becoming unpleasant, we leave.

We seem to expect children to 'behave' in such a way or parents 'make' them be respectful so we can all enjoy the space together. To me that just seems unrealistic. Adult situations rarely end up that way.

I am not really sure what my point is, but it just seems parents have all sorts of unrealistic expectations of how children *should* and *should not* behave at playgroups. It just seems like there is one set of expectations for adults and another for children....
Do you think that maybe the adults that know how to act appropriately in public were taught how to do so when they were children? The whole point of PUBLIC spaces is for the PUBLIC to be able to enjoy them together. KWIM? Most ppl are very touchy if you try to offer an alternative to them or even suggest a book for them to read, so I definitely the frustration here. But, I do feel sorry for the mama that hasn't found the way that works for her and her child.

Tough issue, but I DO leave with my ds if I tell him that I will if he continues inappropriate behavior. I think the key is following through no matter what. If your kid thinks you're wishy-washy you're screwed :LOL . YKWIM?
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#131 of 141 Old 04-13-2004, 11:10 AM
 
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Tough issue, but I DO leave with my ds if I tell him that I will if he continues inappropriate behavior. I think the key is following through no matter what. If your kid thinks you're wishy-washy you're screwed . YKWIM?

EXACTLY!!
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#132 of 141 Old 04-13-2004, 03:25 PM
 
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Originally posted by CraftyMommaOf2
I think the key is following through no matter what. If your kid thinks you're wishy-washy you're screwed :LOL . YKWIM?
(two thumbs up!)
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#133 of 141 Old 04-13-2004, 09:08 PM
 
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My son is 3 and a half. If another child is aggressive or mean at the park, we problem-solve what to do ( tell them you don't like it, walk away, suggest another game, etc.). Sometimes he is aggressive or mean. Then we problem-solve again (why don't you put that with mommy's bag if you don't want to share it now, or if you don't want to play with other kids, we can go home or play over there). It doesn't always work, but it is a way to start off, and it often will work.

Nobody's kid is always the angel. Anyone who acts like their kid is is not being real. I never judge others' parenting based on their kids' behavior ( I was a special ed teacher, I know how it is in a way). It is nice to see parents intervening when their kid is being aggressive or mean, though, special needs or not.

I don't have a problem with other parents calling my son on his behavior if I am not there immediately. But the parents in my community tend to be rather gentle, so that is a factor.

L.
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#134 of 141 Old 04-13-2004, 09:09 PM
 
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Forgot to add, if giving him opportunities to problem solve with me don't work, then we do go home. I think that has happened once.

L.
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#135 of 141 Old 04-15-2004, 05:44 PM
 
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Well, I saw another example of this yesterday, the "ineffective parenting mistaken for GD."

I was at this adult sit-down quiet social gathering and one woman had brought her child. He was about 2, and he was just going up to random people and hitting, kicking and head-butting them. And he did it with some real force! It looked like it hurt. All the other people were just looking uncomfortable, since no one wants to discipline another's child, and every once in a while the mother would look at him and say "stop it" in this wimpy voice and of course the child would just ignore her. Every once in a while she would try to explain to everyone else, "He gets it from his father." Well, that's no excuse for everyone else to have to put up with it! I think the mother was being selfish - she drags her child to an adult gathering, fails to provide anything else for him to do, and then won't just take him home because that would interfere with her evening.

I was just waiting for him to come do something like that to me; I would have dragged him out of the room. I don't like to discipline others' kids either, but I'm tired of having to leave somewhere that is intended for adults all because someone won't parent their child that they insisted on bringing.
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#136 of 141 Old 04-15-2004, 06:51 PM
 
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Preachin to the choir Greaseball!! ITA!

We had a good incident happen. Dh had taken dd to phoenix for a business lunch....and to give me some time off...... They stopped at a park to play for awhile.....and while dd was talking to some girls, this little boy comes up and pushes her down. Dh was right there of course.........and he said the mother of the little boy came immediately over and talked with the boy, then turned to dh and said "Im really sorry......we've been working on this lately, his aggression......sorry again." Dh was upset to see dd get hurt, but felt better that this woman was watching and came right over to do something about it.
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#137 of 141 Old 04-15-2004, 07:25 PM
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Making excuses is "doing something about it"?

Sure it is...
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#138 of 141 Old 04-15-2004, 07:47 PM
 
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It doesn't sound like the mother in rainsmom's scenario was "making excuses" (though the woman in Greaseball's scenario definitely was). It sounds as though she handled it very well - intervened, addressed the behavior with her son, and sympathised with the victim.
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#139 of 141 Old 04-15-2004, 08:02 PM
 
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Thats exactly what happened. I dont know the details of how she reprimanded him, just that she did. It was just nice for a change to have the experience of having a parent see, do something and apologize.
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#140 of 141 Old 04-17-2004, 05:18 PM
 
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Hello All!

I have read discipline books by Dr. Sears, Barbara Coloroso, Natural Family Living, etc. as well as the Biblical Parenting book. They all have great tibits of wisdom. But I have to say that the most helpful information I have tapped into lately is listening to Dr. Ray Guarendi on the radio, through his tapes and reading his books. Why? Because I feel he has addressed what I believe to be a major framework issue of parenting - do we as parents have the right to discipline our children as we see fit(abuse not included)? Do we as parents have any shred of anything within us, that will lead us in disciplining our children? Or do we need "the Experts" to tell us how to discipline our children because we couldn't posssibly be smart enough to figure it out ourselves? Do we look to these books and tapes for absolute discipline truths and how to's - OR do we look to these resources for information that WE then process and weigh it's validity to determine if we want to include the tips given in our repertoire?

It seems to me that this is really the main sticking point for alot of parents - confidence in their own ability to raise their child(ren). I am finally growing in my confidence as a parent and slowly letting go of beating myself up for my myriad mistakes in my parenting. There is nothing wrong with my children knowing I am an imperfect human being who is trying to be a better person - that's how they'll learn about self-esteem! And no, I don't think my kids will become mass murderers because I make them sit in a corner for time-outs for inappropriate behaviors, or make them write sentences, dictionary words or essays (when they are old enough), or suspend privileges. I believe that they will know I love them so much that I will not allow them to become the kind of person that others shun, make fun of and put down. They will know that I love them so much - that I will not allow them to become irresponsible, unconfident adults who cannot take care of themselves, and who cannot add beauty and joy to others lives.

I think parents are so afraid of letting their imperfections show, of "ruining" their children by having rules and boundaries, of being "unpopular" with neighbors, friends and family - that we too willingly give up and hand over our parental rights to discipline to "the experts".

Let's build each other up - and remember, sometimes no matter how tactfully and kind you might say something - the other person will still choose to hear it in a negative way. That doesn't mean it wasn't worth saying. You just don't destroy the other person in so doing.

That's my 2 cents...

Take Care...
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#141 of 141 Old 04-17-2004, 05:23 PM
 
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I consider the experts to be those here on MDC, since they are mothers! I don't read discipline books. I'm confident that I'm disciplining my child the right way, and if something comes up and I'm not sure how to handle it, I ask MDC members how they have handled such things.

Sometimes I wonder about the people who write those books - take Dr. Sears. He's a pediatrician with 8 children...so where does he get the time to write several books?!
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