Help, 5 yo DS "I hate Mommy" and "Mommy is stupid" at every frustrating event, how to deal? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-01-2011, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
Caneel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Small town in a rural area
Posts: 3,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Out of nowhere, our previously lovely 5 yo DS has started saying things like "I hate Mommy" and "Mommy is stupid" and using the word stupid as a description for everything.

 

The "I hates" and "Mommy is stupid" come out every time he gets frustrated, the time of day doesn't matter.  For example, he wanted a particular food item as a snack yesterday.  We were out of it and when I said "I need to get more apples next time I go to the store"  he responds with "I hate you, you are stupid."

 

We have absolutely no idea where this is coming from.  DH and I do not talk to each other like that and I am certain no one else in DS's life (namely the grandparents) do either.

 

After he calms down, he can identify why he said mean things but he does not seem to have any remorse.  Once I tried to get him to put himself in my shoes and asked him something like "how would you feel if someone called you stupid?" to which he replied "you call me stupid" which I most certainly do not! 

 

Now, I know he doesn't mean what he is saying but I am looking for guidance.

 

Do we (DH and I) continue to talk it out with him after he calms down and just let it ride for now (going on for about 3 weeks) as it might be a phase?

 

I am clueless because up until now, we really haven't had any disclipine problems that we couldn't handle.

 

 

 

 


Mom to DS, born fall 05 after ,,, wife/best friend to DH We have
Caneel is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-01-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Subhuti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Jeta Grove
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you are handling it well. We never had the issue to quite the extent you have ... But after entering kindergarten my dd would occasionally say she hated us when she was upset. We would ignore it. It went away.

I realize you may have to change your approach if it continues much longer.

We are stricter about the word stupid, because it feels like a "gateway" word to worse, derogatory comments in general. If it's being directed to a pee or a sibling, I make sure it stops and she checks in with that person.

Kids. I got two of 'em.
Subhuti is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
Caneel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Small town in a rural area
Posts: 3,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Subhuti View Post

We are stricter about the word stupid, because it feels like a "gateway" word to worse, derogatory comments in general. If it's being directed to a pee or a sibling, I make sure it stops and she checks in with that person.


I was certain we were the only house in the world with "stupid" pees!  LOL. 

 


Mom to DS, born fall 05 after ,,, wife/best friend to DH We have
Caneel is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

When one of my kids went through this phase, I would respond calmly and honestly.

 

When I was being called names, I would stop the nice thing I was doing, clean up, and walk away and go do something that I enjoyed (like reading a book).  When my child wanted to talk about it, "Why aren't you getting me my snack?" I would just reply, "I'm sorry, but I don't really feel like doing that this afternoon.  When someone speaks to me hurtfully, I need some time to myself."

 

No berating, no punishing (unless you count not getting a snack, I suppose some people might feel that way, but I don't), no long involved conversations--esp. since I'd been having those conversations ad nauseum with no success.  At that point, I figured I was treating my kid like an idiot by overexplaining things and nicely berating them--what, they didn't understand me the first time?  I knew that this child in particular had.

 

If I was attacked because an outing wasn't good enough for them, we turned around and left.  Again, no shaming or lecturing on my part, when we got home, I happily busied myself with reading or cleaning, or whatever I felt like doing.  Hey, sometime I even made cookies and shared them with the child who treated me poorly (it was later, and it's my choice to share my baking with them).  If they asked me to do something though, I'd say, "No, I'm sorry, I don't really feel like doing that right now."  If they asked why in a non rhetorical or badgering manner, I would answer calmly and honestly, "I didn't appreciate how you spoke to me earlier.  I felt sad and angry, so I'm doing things now that help me feel happy."

 

I will disagree with others here in saying, perhaps, that this kind of behavior is best nipped in the bud.  I don't believe in lecturing a kid to death.  If it's a new behavior, yes, it's very important to talk about it.  But once you have, and they really couldn't care less, and continue with the behavior--then I do feel that 5 is not too young to learn that when you treat people poorly, sometimes there are consequences.  At home that's not going to be as bad as it might be with people who don't care about you--but, for me, giving myself permission to shrug and walk away and decouple from the hurtful words helped me not lash out at my child or stuff down my resentments until they exploded or start to dislike my child.

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:24 PM
 
Kuba'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Wow Tigerchild, I will take your advice! Not the OP, but I have a "I hate you" child as well. OP, my son is almost 8. His behaviour started earlier than your child's. He is kind, smart, reasonable and completely unable to deal with frustration. He has some SPD issues, but I dont use that as an excuse for his behaviour, merely a fact. I have no advice for you myself, only sympathy. But I will personally try what pp suggested (non-angrily walking away and busying myself with something I enjoy- not easy, as I am a yellerbag.gif)
 


SAHM to one moody son J hat.gif(06-27-03), one super-girly daughter M hearts.gif (02-23-06) and welcome Sophie! energy.gif(05-23-10) expecting fourth in July baby.gif

Kuba'sMama is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:47 PM
 
mom2happy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post

When one of my kids went through this phase, I would respond calmly and honestly.

 

When I was being called names, I would stop the nice thing I was doing, clean up, and walk away and go do something that I enjoyed (like reading a book).  When my child wanted to talk about it, "Why aren't you getting me my snack?" I would just reply, "I'm sorry, but I don't really feel like doing that this afternoon.  When someone speaks to me hurtfully, I need some time to myself."

 

No berating, no punishing (unless you count not getting a snack, I suppose some people might feel that way, but I don't), no long involved conversations--esp. since I'd been having those conversations ad nauseum with no success.  At that point, I figured I was treating my kid like an idiot by overexplaining things and nicely berating them--what, they didn't understand me the first time?  I knew that this child in particular had.

 

If I was attacked because an outing wasn't good enough for them, we turned around and left.  Again, no shaming or lecturing on my part, when we got home, I happily busied myself with reading or cleaning, or whatever I felt like doing.  Hey, sometime I even made cookies and shared them with the child who treated me poorly (it was later, and it's my choice to share my baking with them).  If they asked me to do something though, I'd say, "No, I'm sorry, I don't really feel like doing that right now."  If they asked why in a non rhetorical or badgering manner, I would answer calmly and honestly, "I didn't appreciate how you spoke to me earlier.  I felt sad and angry, so I'm doing things now that help me feel happy."

 

I will disagree with others here in saying, perhaps, that this kind of behavior is best nipped in the bud.  I don't believe in lecturing a kid to death.  If it's a new behavior, yes, it's very important to talk about it.  But once you have, and they really couldn't care less, and continue with the behavior--then I do feel that 5 is not too young to learn that when you treat people poorly, sometimes there are consequences.  At home that's not going to be as bad as it might be with people who don't care about you--but, for me, giving myself permission to shrug and walk away and decouple from the hurtful words helped me not lash out at my child or stuff down my resentments until they exploded or start to dislike my child.

 I'm not knocking what works for you, but it almost seems passive aggressive. Maybe it isn't. It could just be how I'm imagining the scenario.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying it, but at the point when my DD says "I hate you, stupid!", that would mean I'd have to wait for the opportunity to arise that she would want me for something.

I don't know how I feel about that.

Also, I'm pretty sure if I gave her your answer, she might shrug, walk away, and kick her feet up with her own book. When it occurred to her that she needed a snack or help with something she would automatically apologize. It would be kind of meaningless, no?

It's so hard. I don't have any tried and true methods for this that works for me.

 

I will add that with my DH, I do exactly what you are advising here and he DOES say I'm being passive aggressive.

I don't have a problem doing this with him  though, because he can get his own darn snack!mischievous.gif

 

 

mom2happy is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 05:24 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Hmm, I don't see it as passive aggressive.  To me, passive aggressive would be to give the snack, while badgering the child with "see how nice mommy is to you?  don't you feel bad about how you treated mommy?  look, you hurt mommy and she's still serving you just like she always does."  Or, demanding of the child, "Now, what do you need to do for mommy in order to get your snack back?"  Or "If you REALLY cared about mommy you wouldn't speak to her that way."  I hate games.  I don't play mindgames with my child.  I don't take things away from my kid to get back at them; nor do I dangle them as some sort of carrot where they must dance a certain way to get something.  That's BS, and I had enough of that in my own childhood.

 

Neither do I stuff and do the kissy fakey fakey crap with my kid.  If I am angry, or frustrated, or annoyed--I say so.  I am happy to own my own feelings.  "I need to have some quiet time, because I am very angry about how you spoke to me, and I need to give myself some time to calm down so we can talk about it later."  "I don't feel like preparing something for you right now, because I am angry about how you spoke to me, and I need some time to get myself together so I can make a good choice about what to do."  The nice thing is, after some guided modeling when they were younger, and reinforcement now that they are older (my kids are 9, 7, and 7), when they get angry at me or they are hurt by the tone of my voice (I'm no saint, and my kids certainly know it), they can talk to me about it too...as respectfully as I speak to them when something THEY do bothers me.

 

I suppose I don't feel that it is a bad lesson for people to learn that if you are rude, hurtful, and demanding people will be less likely to help you, while if you are polite you'll be more likely to get assistance when you would like it.  And let's be clear, even with an apology at that point, they would have lost what they lost.  Snack, outing, whatever.  I've accepted an apology, hugged, and moved on--but they still don't get the snack until the next mealtime or me packing it up to go back to the outing.  I don't demand apologies, and I don't respond to manipulative ones either.  I'm happy and express appreciation for apologies I receive, though.

 

If you don't like that approach, there are hundreds of other ways that you can try.  This method works for me because it keeps me a) calm, b) disengaged from the power struggle (I am owning MY feelings, not resentful about theirs, and c) works well with my one kid's personality.  I cannot stuff my feelings--it's extremely dangerous (due to personality and honestly some family of origin baggage) for me to do so.  If my kid called me stupid and told me they hated me every day, I couldn't just sit there and eat it--that would not work for me personality due to my own unique circumstance.  If other people can ride it out without danger or damage, then more power to them--I just don't think that strategy works for everyone.  If I tred that (well, I did try that initially, with very bad results), it would escalate the situation the more stressed I got and the more stressed out my kid got. (Because honestly, I do think that kids feel bad when they hurt you and know they hurt you--even if they didn't mean to per se.  At 5, I think a kid does have some inkling of the power of words to wound.  I think kids need help learning how to control themselves, and it's good for them to see adults processing that as well--for me, asking a kid for space, and telling them that you are not feeling very cooperative right now can be part of that, so long as you have a general environment of *respect* towards them and unconditional love.)

 

Though I agree, if you are someone with strong P-A tendancies (or think it might be tempting to use it in a P-A way) then probably you should steer clear of this.  Can't answer to why your husband thinks you are being P-A with him though.  Are you sure that you're not?  Or--if he had to deal with that a lot in his life, sometimes it's hard not to see it everywhere.  I know until I got (a lot) of therapy, boy did I "read between the lines" a lot of stuff, because I was SO used to having to deal with the games.

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 06:25 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

I treat "I hate you" the same as I treat physical violence. Kids at this age are learning that words have power, and when they're mad, they tend  wielding that power with all the subtlety of a Viking on a raid. So, there are two things that my kids need to learn: Words can hurt and how to control their verbal anger. But, I don't give too much weight to those words because I know that it's largely developmental.

 

I usually send my child to their room, or if they won't go, remove myself from their presence. "I don't want to be with you when you're saying hurtful things" is all I say. If they're yelling at me/complaining while I'm doing something nice for them, I'll usually just say directly "If you yell at me, it doesn't make me feel like helping you. Let me know when you've calmed down and we can try again."

 

I will confess that we have had very little difficulty with this kind of language (and I don't think it's stellar parenting -- it's just who my kids are). We do have issues with rude tone of voice and bossiness, and I treat that similarly: What I usually say is: "That was rude. Try again." (When they were younger, I'd model first, "Did you mean "I'd like a cookie please? Please say that instead.")

 

 


Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 06:44 PM
 
mom2happy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post

Hmm, I don't see it as passive aggressive.  To me, passive aggressive would be to give the snack, while badgering the child with "see how nice mommy is to you?  don't you feel bad about how you treated mommy?  look, you hurt mommy and she's still serving you just like she always does."  Or, demanding of the child, "Now, what do you need to do for mommy in order to get your snack back?"  Or "If you REALLY cared about mommy you wouldn't speak to her that way."  I hate games.  I don't play mindgames with my child.  I don't take things away from my kid to get back at them; nor do I dangle them as some sort of carrot where they must dance a certain way to get something.  That's BS, and I had enough of that in my own childhood.

 

Neither do I stuff and do the kissy fakey fakey crap with my kid.  If I am angry, or frustrated, or annoyed--I say so.  I am happy to own my own feelings.  "I need to have some quiet time, because I am very angry about how you spoke to me, and I need to give myself some time to calm down so we can talk about it later."  "I don't feel like preparing something for you right now, because I am angry about how you spoke to me, and I need some time to get myself together so I can make a good choice about what to do."  The nice thing is, after some guided modeling when they were younger, and reinforcement now that they are older (my kids are 9, 7, and 7), when they get angry at me or they are hurt by the tone of my voice (I'm no saint, and my kids certainly know it), they can talk to me about it too...as respectfully as I speak to them when something THEY do bothers me.

 

I suppose I don't feel that it is a bad lesson for people to learn that if you are rude, hurtful, and demanding people will be less likely to help you, while if you are polite you'll be more likely to get assistance when you would like it.  And let's be clear, even with an apology at that point, they would have lost what they lost.  Snack, outing, whatever.  I've accepted an apology, hugged, and moved on--but they still don't get the snack until the next mealtime or me packing it up to go back to the outing.  I don't demand apologies, and I don't respond to manipulative ones either.  I'm happy and express appreciation for apologies I receive, though.

 

If you don't like that approach, there are hundreds of other ways that you can try.  This method works for me because it keeps me a) calm, b) disengaged from the power struggle (I am owning MY feelings, not resentful about theirs, and c) works well with my one kid's personality.  I cannot stuff my feelings--it's extremely dangerous (due to personality and honestly some family of origin baggage) for me to do so.  If my kid called me stupid and told me they hated me every day, I couldn't just sit there and eat it--that would not work for me personality due to my own unique circumstance.  If other people can ride it out without danger or damage, then more power to them--I just don't think that strategy works for everyone.  If I tred that (well, I did try that initially, with very bad results), it would escalate the situation the more stressed I got and the more stressed out my kid got. (Because honestly, I do think that kids feel bad when they hurt you and know they hurt you--even if they didn't mean to per se.  At 5, I think a kid does have some inkling of the power of words to wound.  I think kids need help learning how to control themselves, and it's good for them to see adults processing that as well--for me, asking a kid for space, and telling them that you are not feeling very cooperative right now can be part of that, so long as you have a general environment of *respect* towards them and unconditional love.)

 

Though I agree, if you are someone with strong P-A tendancies (or think it might be tempting to use it in a P-A way) then probably you should steer clear of this.  Can't answer to why your husband thinks you are being P-A with him though.  Are you sure that you're not?  Or--if he had to deal with that a lot in his life, sometimes it's hard not to see it everywhere.  I know until I got (a lot) of therapy, boy did I "read between the lines" a lot of stuff, because I was SO used to having to deal with the games.


Maybe I will never really get what passive aggressive really means.

I do exactly what you do with your kids with my DH. If he is being nasty, I tell him he can't act that way to me and then go into my shell and keep myself busy to keep my inner peace. I don't feel like being near him or doing special or friendly things with him. If I am cold towards him, it;s because I can't be fake and pretend that I'm ok or over it when I'm not. I don't like to fight, so this is just what I do. He constantly says that what I am doing is passive aggressive. I don't think it is, but he assures me that it is.

I guess that's why I think my way is so wrong and would feel strange reacting that way to my children.

I also have the problem of always thinking they are so innocent and that there is an excuse for everything.


 

 

mom2happy is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 08:46 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

According to the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/passive-aggressive-behavior/AN01563

 

"Passive-aggressive behavior is a pattern of expressing your negative feelings in an indirect way — instead of openly addressing them. People who are passive-aggressive appear to agree with the requests of others. They may even seem enthusiastic about them. But they don't perform a requested action on time or in a useful way, and may even work against it. In other words, they use nonverbal behavior to express anger or resentment that they can't express verbally."

 

I don't see as stopping doing something and then saying "I don't want to do this right now because I'm hurt/angry" as being passive aggressive.I'm direct enough that I'd probably SAY something before I stopped. Stopping without saying anything is a little indirect for my tastes.


Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:42 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



If you "go into your shell" and are "cold" towards him, then no, you are absolutely NOT doing what I do with my kids!!  I just give myself some space--that can be done *without* giving anyone the cold shoulder or shutting them out.  I believe being cold and shutting people out is a form of violence as well.  It's also not a way of avoiding fights or arguments!

 

Quote:

I do exactly what you do with your kids with my DH. If he is being nasty, I tell him he can't act that way to me and then go into my shell and keep myself busy to keep my inner peace. I don't feel like being near him or doing special or friendly things with him. If I am cold towards him, it;s because I can't be fake and pretend that I'm ok or over it when I'm not. I don't like to fight, so this is just what I do. He constantly says that what I am doing is passive aggressive. I don't think it is, but he assures me that it is.

I guess that's why I think my way is so wrong and would feel strange reacting that way to my children.

I also have the problem of always thinking they are so innocent and that there is an excuse for everything.


 

 



 

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:11 AM
 
D_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

I treat "I hate you" the same as I treat physical violence. Kids at this age are learning that words have power, and when they're mad, they tend  wielding that power with all the subtlety of a Viking on a raid. So, there are two things that my kids need to learn: Words can hurt and how to control their verbal anger. But, I don't give too much weight to those words because I know that it's largely developmental.

 

I usually send my child to their room, or if they won't go, remove myself from their presence.


I do this, minus the last part. I will not leave the room if they are rude. THEY are out of line so they are the ones who need to leave. IMO it's giving them too much power to leave the room.

I really just have no tolerance for it. "WHAT did you say? That is absolutely unacceptable. Those are NOT words we say in this house. DO.YOU.UNDERSTAND. I need you to leave while we calm down and then we can talk more about it". Normal life resumes after some time apart and an apology.

It's a BFD here.


DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

D_McG is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:50 AM
 
mom2happy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

According to the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/passive-aggressive-behavior/AN01563

 

"Passive-aggressive behavior is a pattern of expressing your negative feelings in an indirect way — instead of openly addressing them. People who are passive-aggressive appear to agree with the requests of others. They may even seem enthusiastic about them. But they don't perform a requested action on time or in a useful way, and may even work against it. In other words, they use nonverbal behavior to express anger or resentment that they can't express verbally."

 

 


If this defines passive aggression, then it.s not what I thought it was. I am very direct in telling DH what upset me and in dealing with my feelings. I am not and can not be warm and fuzzy when he says something unkind. I'm not an actress. He always knows why I'm upset and as soon as he talks about it with me in a kind way- I am over it and happy with him.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post



If you "go into your shell" and are "cold" towards him, then no, you are absolutely NOT doing what I do with my kids!!  I just give myself some space--that can be done *without* giving anyone the cold shoulder or shutting them out.  I believe being cold and shutting people out is a form of violence as well.  It's also not a way of avoiding fights or arguments!

 



 

I'm not shutting him out when I feel cold toward him. I just deal with my feelings that he hurt and do my own thing. When  I am upset, he knows why. I can't pretend or play games. I just stay quiet and don't have any funny things to say. There is nothing violent about it. He doesnt like it because he thinks I should just "roll with the punches", "suck it up", and not hold him accountable for anything he says.

 

This is what you said you do with your kids:

 

When I was being called names, I would stop the nice thing I was doing, clean up, and walk away and go do something that I enjoyed (like reading a book).  When my child wanted to talk about it, "Why aren't you getting me my snack?" I would just reply, "I'm sorry, but I don't really feel like doing that this afternoon.  When someone speaks to me hurtfully, I need some time to myself."

 

 I've never been called a name when I'm in the middle of a nice thing I'm doing.

It seems like mine and any other kid I know resorts to name calling when their parent is NOT doing something nice or giving them their way. I can't imagine the opportunity ever happening like that to prove the point in that way.

 

The part about going home from an outing makes perfect sense. What do you do in the situations where they are namecalling because they are not getting what they want?

You can't always be in the middle of doing something specifically for them.

mom2happy is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
Caneel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Small town in a rural area
Posts: 3,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I appreciate the feedback.

 

What I find interesting/puzzling is that we never give into his tantrums so he certainly isn't learning that his bad behavior gets him his own way yet he continues.

 

Late afternoon, we had another incident and instead of ignoring it, I calmly told him I did not want to hear those words and then walked away (we were getting ready to leave the house and I needed to throw a load of laundry in the washer).  He cried for a couple of minutes, gave me a hug, cried for another couple of minutes then was fine the rest of the night.

 

 


Mom to DS, born fall 05 after ,,, wife/best friend to DH We have
Caneel is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I've never been in a situation where my kids spontaneously called me names apropos of nothing--while they may not have liked what was available (for snack, for activity, ect), it tends to happen when I am doing something for them or supervising them.  So guess I don't understand what you're asking.  They haven't always interpreted what I was doing as "something nice" (esp. if they wanted something else for snack or to go somewhere else or not to leave or whatever), but they got the message pretty quick that maybe yogurt wasn't such a bad snack (even if it wasn't a cookie) when faced with nothing.  When my DD pitched a fit over an outing, to the extend that I felt that I wasn't up to any more outings for the next few days, that made an impact as well.  (which is why I feel this is better for older kids, who are capable of looking over things with a larger time span than, say, a young toddler).  Homework battles (now that my kiddo who seems most inclined to lash out) are dealt with in a similar manner--I help if asked for, but if she is belligerent or namecalling towards me, then I tell her she can ask dad or her teacher for help later, or make the choice to not do it and own the consequences of not doing it.  In other words, at least for my dd in particular, that kind of verbal attack is a sally to further argument.  I ignore the sally, but do impose consequences for the behavior (because that is what's going to happen in friendships, at school, ect.--i feel I would have done her a huge injustice if I'd allowed her to treat me horribly to let off steam and acted like that was okay with me.)

 

Generally, when I have been spoken to hurtfully and disrespectfully, when I have been called names, it's almost always been in the context of me doing something with them, that they didn't like how it turned out.  I don't take it terribly personally--even at 5 (or older sometimes), it's often less about you and the immediate thing that's happening, and more about something else that's going on, ect.  Which is why I like to descalate the situation and keep myself calm, so that we can talk about it and I'm a safe person to talk to (and esp. with my more volatile kid--when she has stuff going on that triggers that kind of outburst, generally she *isn't* really capable of dealing with choices or outings because everything is going to be negative or triggering--sometimes i need to wait her out until she's ready to tell me what's really going on.  But I feel like even still, she isn't given a "pass" on that behavior.  It's not a healthy or moral thing to do, to be deliberately hurtful to another person or to take out your aggression on someone else, and I think some people need more structure and support in how to learn to not do that than others.  I have a kid who needed a high degree of support to learn how to do that, and I'm so pleased that now, after 3 or 4 years of work, it's pretty much natural to her!).

 

But again, if you don't like the method, I'm not saying it's the only way--it's just what works for me.  Opinions and stratgies were asked for, so I just gave mine.  YMMV.

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 11:51 AM
 
umsami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Capital City
Posts: 9,943
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Honestly, the best thing I've found for the "I hate Mommy" thing is, "That's OK, I love you anyway."  It usually diffuses it (at least with my kids.)

 

I've never gotten "Mommy is stupid."  I'd probably just say, "Well, sometimes we all make mistakes...but that's OK, that's how we learn."

 

Honestly, if you don't react much--the words lose their power.  Now, if they see Mom get upset, then usually they keep on saying it. 


Mom to DS(8), DS(6), DD(4), and DS(1).  "Kids do as well as they can."

umsami is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 12:11 PM
 
mom2happy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post

I've never been in a situation where my kids spontaneously called me names apropos of nothing--while they may not have liked what was available (for snack, for activity, ect), it tends to happen when I am doing something for them or supervising them.  So guess I don't understand what you're asking.  They haven't always interpreted what I was doing as "something nice" (esp. if they wanted something else for snack or to go somewhere else or not to leave or whatever), but they got the message pretty quick that maybe yogurt wasn't such a bad snack (even if it wasn't a cookie) when faced with nothing.  When my DD pitched a fit over an outing, to the extend that I felt that I wasn't up to any more outings for the next few days, that made an impact as well.  (which is why I feel this is better for older kids, who are capable of looking over things with a larger time span than, say, a young toddler).  Homework battles (now that my kiddo who seems most inclined to lash out) are dealt with in a similar manner--I help if asked for, but if she is belligerent or namecalling towards me, then I tell her she can ask dad or her teacher for help later, or make the choice to not do it and own the consequences of not doing it.  In other words, at least for my dd in particular, that kind of verbal attack is a sally to further argument.  I ignore the sally, but do impose consequences for the behavior (because that is what's going to happen in friendships, at school, ect.--i feel I would have done her a huge injustice if I'd allowed her to treat me horribly to let off steam and acted like that was okay with me.)

 

Generally, when I have been spoken to hurtfully and disrespectfully, when I have been called names, it's almost always been in the context of me doing something with them, that they didn't like how it turned out.  I don't take it terribly personally--even at 5 (or older sometimes), it's often less about you and the immediate thing that's happening, and more about something else that's going on, ect.  Which is why I like to descalate the situation and keep myself calm, so that we can talk about it and I'm a safe person to talk to (and esp. with my more volatile kid--when she has stuff going on that triggers that kind of outburst, generally she *isn't* really capable of dealing with choices or outings because everything is going to be negative or triggering--sometimes i need to wait her out until she's ready to tell me what's really going on.  But I feel like even still, she isn't given a "pass" on that behavior.  It's not a healthy or moral thing to do, to be deliberately hurtful to another person or to take out your aggression on someone else, and I think some people need more structure and support in how to learn to not do that than others.  I have a kid who needed a high degree of support to learn how to do that, and I'm so pleased that now, after 3 or 4 years of work, it's pretty much natural to her!).

 

But again, if you don't like the method, I'm not saying it's the only way--it's just what works for me.  Opinions and stratgies were asked for, so I just gave mine.  YMMV.



Thank you very much for this response. I totally understand what you mean now and this is very similar to my personality most of the time.  It is to me- the way to not go back and fourth and have a fight. It lets someone know their behavior is not ok with an action.

I  realize it's a natural reaction.
My DH has been telling me for YEARS that it's passive aggressive. I don't feel like it's aggressive in any way. I see it as self preservation/ respect. I still question myself and I'm usually careful how I handle things with the kids because I don't want to be wrong.I guess that's why I feel like I have to remain calm and say, "that is not okay to talk to me like that ", and NOT have a reaction. My reaction would be to want to be away from the child until they are going to act the right way. Same as I do with DH. I'm always straightforward about why I'm upset. There is no hidden element to it, or revenge, or spite.

Tonight I'm going to have to show him that definition of passive aggressive. How off base! I can't believe I never even looked it up.

 

I was really hung up on your snack scenario.

I see exactly where you are coming from now and genuinely wanted to hear more from you.

Thank you for not being defensive.

 

To the OP,

I can tell you what does NOT work.

Telling the child calmly, "it is not okay to talk like that"!

or scolding,

or sending them to their room.

Mine always apologize, but I haven't figured out a way to solve the problem.

I don't call names, neither does DH, I've been hoping it will stop when they realize it's not the right way to be.

I really can't stand it though.

Some people say "Don't give power to the words", but words are power, they have the ability to hurt and heal.

It's a hard one.

 

mom2happy is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Fuzzy Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Look out for comments by adults that mean the same thing as stupid like "That was a bad idea."  "I wouldn't do that." "You shouldn't have done that."

Fuzzy Bee is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Mom2Happy, if your DH has a background with a really passive-aggressive parent (or sib, or other loved one in his life, esp. one that had a lot of power over him) then he may just be reading way too much into what you say, or is so hypersensitive to that sort of thing that he projects a tone on you that may not be there, which I can only imagine must be supremely frustrating to you.  I can totally understand that from his point of view though, it's a lot to overcome.  (Even though I had years of therapy, and have a pretty good handle on myself most of the time, if i do say so myself ;>, it is SO EASY for me to revert to hypervigilance/projection esp. if I am already stressed or tired or whatever if I'm not careful!)  Unfortunately, if he can't "hear" that you aren't shutting him out and are just calming down so that you guys can talk or whatever, he probably won't take very kindly to the suggestion of therapy (I think that if anyone else had suggested that to me, before i independently decided it would be a good idea, I probably would have ripped their head off :( ).  If you have to deal with that, i'm really sorry.  DH (pre-kids) gave me a gentle nudge by asking to establish "code words" that either of us could use to call a "time out" for discussion, with very clear rules that it did not mean ignoring, and would be taken up again in a timely manner (for us, the time for reengagement was named at the time of the time out).  don't know if that would be helpful to discuss with your DH, but it really helped me and my DH until I pulled my head out of my butt and realized that I wanted to get some "fighting fair" support and strategies before we added kids to the mix.

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



I disagree that that those (except for the last one, that seems to me to be pointless to say after the fact) mean "you're stupid."  They could certainly be *said* with that meaning, but I don't think they have to be!  I have said, "Hmmm, I wouldn't choose to do that," but it's followed up with, "But if that's your choice, then I will respect that."  (unless it's a safety issue--I won't respect one of my kid's desire to punch their sib for example).  I have said, "Wow, maybe that wasn't such a good idea..." (which kinda means the same as "that was a bad idea") but it's in a context of a discussion where the kid has already come to that conclusion, and then i help/reflect with them to brainstorm ways to deal with the consequences or make amends.

 

Some of the ideas that I (or my kids) have ARE bad ideas!  I have even said in front of my kids when I made a poor/unwise decision that impacted all of us, "WHOA, now *that* was a bad idea on my part--I guess I'll have to try to fix it by doing X, yikes!  Oh well, i guess I will know better next time, sorry about that!"  Is there something i'm missing wrt acknowledging that a bad/unwise idea is not a good thing to do...or is it a language thing? (the word "Bad" being...bad.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bee View Post

Look out for comments by adults that mean the same thing as stupid like "That was a bad idea."  "I wouldn't do that." "You shouldn't have done that."



 

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 02:06 PM
 
Fuzzy Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


It is all about context. People who dance around the words "you're stupid" use phrases like that. The reason why this is such a problem when it comes to people like this is that they never take responsibility for a stupid decision. They act like they never made a bad decision. You don't sound like a person like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post



I disagree that that those (except for the last one, that seems to me to be pointless to say after the fact) mean "you're stupid."  They could certainly be *said* with that meaning, but I don't think they have to be!  I have said, "Hmmm, I wouldn't choose to do that," but it's followed up with, "But if that's your choice, then I will respect that."  (unless it's a safety issue--I won't respect one of my kid's desire to punch their sib for example).  I have said, "Wow, maybe that wasn't such a good idea..." (which kinda means the same as "that was a bad idea") but it's in a context of a discussion where the kid has already come to that conclusion, and then i help/reflect with them to brainstorm ways to deal with the consequences or make amends.

 

Some of the ideas that I (or my kids) have ARE bad ideas!  I have even said in front of my kids when I made a poor/unwise decision that impacted all of us, "WHOA, now *that* was a bad idea on my part--I guess I'll have to try to fix it by doing X, yikes!  Oh well, i guess I will know better next time, sorry about that!"  Is there something i'm missing wrt acknowledging that a bad/unwise idea is not a good thing to do...or is it a language thing? (the word "Bad" being...bad.)



 



 

Fuzzy Bee is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Tigerchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle Eastside
Posts: 4,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Gotcha.  Yeah, people who say one thing while clearly thinking something way different give me the willies too--though for me i tend to be set on edge by the people who are smiling nicely and saying "okay, honey" in that scary mom voice.  eeep!

Tigerchild is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 04:44 PM
ssh
 
ssh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,681
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

We're more likely to tell my 5 year old DD that using the word stupid for people is rude and hurts their feelings. Inanimate objects can't care so I don't think it matters. For an "I hate you" remark I'm usually say "you're angry me with me." and with an older child "I love you anyway." I have told her that telling people you hate them hurts their feelings. She does have a few friends who think both words are bad words. I think it's ok for a child to say they hate apple juice or hate that their stupid toy is broken. We tend to deal with rude behavior by pointing it out calmly and then ignoring it.

ssh is offline  
Old 03-02-2011, 10:40 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caneel View Post

I appreciate the feedback.

 

What I find interesting/puzzling is that we never give into his tantrums so he certainly isn't learning that his bad behavior gets him his own way yet he continues.

 

Which should tell you that this is largely developmental -- it's about him losing control, not about him getting what he wants. As he gains maturity, he'll be able to handle his emotions better, especially if you react calmly like you did.



Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

I treat "I hate you" the same as I treat physical violence. Kids at this age are learning that words have power, and when they're mad, they tend  wielding that power with all the subtlety of a Viking on a raid. So, there are two things that my kids need to learn: Words can hurt and how to control their verbal anger. But, I don't give too much weight to those words because I know that it's largely developmental.

 

I usually send my child to their room, or if they won't go, remove myself from their presence.


I do this, minus the last part. I will not leave the room if they are rude. THEY are out of line so they are the ones who need to leave. IMO it's giving them too much power to leave the room


Ah, it all depends on your perspective. Sometimes my asking them to leave the room if they've been rude can escalate into a power struggle over getting them to leave the room. Disengaging gives me the power to not be insulted. I cannot control other people's behavior, but I can control my reaction to them. The ironic thing is that if I walk away, my kids are desperate to follow me, even if they're mad at me. For me, it's not about who's out of line, it's about "When you insult me, I don't want to be with you."

 

In reality, these days, I rarely have to do more than say "that was rude" or "try again". Dd has become sooo much better at controlling her tone of voice these days. She still loses frequently, but I can tell she's working on it.

 


Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off