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#61 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think then, that *this* is probably the biggest priority that needs processing. I've read past posts about the horrible things you've endured - and I can't even imagine.  But if you can't do this, or figure out a way to work through it all, your husband will have to be the one to do it.  Just like if there was a physical problem that required one of your children to need frequent doctor visits, hospitalizations, etc., you'd somehow figure out a way to manage it.  Your son needs you to do this for him.  Thus far we're managing our daughter's issues well enough with just dietary changes, without medication, but my husband is on medication.  The difference in him off medication but trying to "handle" things with other coping skills we've read about together, versus on medication...well, I'll just say that medication saved our marriage.  We're poised to do the same for our daughter if it gets to that point, too.

 

I'll be doing it. DH would do it, if I insisted. But, he basically thinks that ds2 is just "all boy", wlil be alright, and maybe just needs a few good spankings. While he'd be somewhat more emotionally able to talk to a doctor, he doesn't really think it's necessary. (Heck - part of the problem here is that ds2 has spells where he's doing more-or-less okay, and I convince myself that he really doesn't have any issues, and I'm off my rocker.)


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#62 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have spine issues, arthritis, my asthma is horrid. A few months ago my back went to hell in a handbasket. I could barely manage to do basic things - like wiping after I went to the bathroom. I went to my dr and she put me on a steroid pack. She got me a tens unit and a backbrace. The tens unit? I want to marry it and have it's babies! It is that awesome!
My back is doing better now but my lungs are a mess from all the fires. I have bone spurs
in my heels. I have plantar faciatis. Walking is agony. So I make sure I wear well padded shoes, soak my feet and muddle through.
I take medication for my depression, progesterone and DHEA for my hormone issues. I take vitamins and calcium to help with energy levels and to postpone further bone loss.
As for how you do it? You baby step it. You set your alarm and get up in the morning. Even if it's just ten minutes before the kids get up. After you adjust to that set it for 15 minutes.
Your older kids are old enough to start working on sleep issues. Have dinner, bathe the kids, read a story and put them to bed. If they get up, put them back in bed. Lather rinse repeat. Try melatonin to help them settle down and fall asleep. My DS takes 2.5 mg a night. It has helped so much! Bedtime here is 8:00. They can read till 8:30 and then it's lights out. You stay consistent, follow through. Don't argue, stay calm. Don't engage in the drama or whining. Empathize if needed but restate what you want and be firm.
When my grandbaby came back to us, she had ZERO sleep skills. She had ZERO self soothing skills. It took a few months but she now goes to bed at 8:30 and sleeps for 11-12 hours. She almost always sleeps through the night. It was hard getting there, but we did it.
My kids all have chores. Even the bb. (she will be 2 next month). Bb gets a wet rag and she "washes" walls, cupboards etc. We make a game of it. The twins are 8.5. They both have jobs. They clean their rooms- not my clean, but they do pretty good. DS loves to vacuum so that's his job. He loves to mop. I bought a spray mop, like a swiffer, but no batteries and the pad can go in the washer.
We have sock folding parties. I pop a movie in and we fold socks together. I bought colored milk crates. I fold their laundry and it goes in their crates. Their dresses have post it's taped on the drawers with a picture I drew of what goes in each drawer. They put their clothes away.
They help with dinner. They help unload the dishwasher. DS feeds the dog. They help collect eggs.
The toolbox? It's small- I got it at walmart for maybe 10$. It has a combo lock. I keep it on top of the fridge. You can easily store one there or on a shelf in the kitchen if you pick one the right size.
Screen time tends to cause issues. Overstimulation and all that so it's very limited. I set the timer and give countdowns the last 15 minutes. Then I shut it off.
There's so many ways to get kids to help. Have races. Give them a job and give yourself one. Make it a race to see who can get done first. Whoever wins gets a reward. They can pick dinner, pick the story, have extra screen time, painted nails, whatever floats your boat.
We are a family. In order for a family to function well we all have to do our part. We work together, we play together. It's what families do.
Also, I break chores down. If I say clean your room, they get overwhelmed. So I break it down. Pick up the legos. Yay! Now bring your dirty clothes basket in to the laundry room and empty it, put the basket back. Yay! Pick up the XYZ. Yay! Break it down.
Declutter. Pick one room at a time, work on it for 30-60 minutes a day. Get it done and move on to the next room.
I make a list each night of what I want to get done the next day. I put it on the fridge and check stuff off as I get it done. It helps.
Have a family meeting. Set down the house rules and put them on poster board. Let the whole family have input. Ask them how they'd like the family to work together to be functional.
If you want ideas on how to get kids motivated, let me know. I have some great things that really help us.
You can do this!

 

Have the kids help more? I thought I was supposed to get a break?

 

DD1 and ds2 do go to bed, and more-or-less stay in bed (dd1 has started having issues at bedtime in the last few months - serious whininess, arguing, etc. - but she was fine for years before that). It's dd2 who has minimal sleep requirements. She doesn't sleep 11-12 hours in a 24 hours period, including naps. I don't think she ever has, even as a new baby

 

I've been breaking down the chores forever. I don't even tell them to do chores, unless I'm right there (or dh is) to supervise. Telling ds2 to pick up all the Legos isn't "yay". It's war.

 

Sure. I can buy a small tool box. I can empty a cupboard, or get rid of the stuff on top of the fridge (which would then need to replaced), but where do I put that stuff? Every shelf, cupboard, closet, etc. in this house is packed. I'm not actually too stupid to realze that a toolbox can go in a cupboard or on top of a fridge. Those places are already full of other things.

 

DS2 doesn't love to do any household chores - not any of them. DD1 loves to organize (sort out all the shoes, and line them up - clear up dressers, etc.) and sometimes wiping things - washing walls, etc. DS2 doesn't like any of them. He doesn't like to build with Legos (except an occasional robot or something with a sibling). He doesn't like to draw. He doesn't like to read. We're upping the chores he has to do, but five minutes of work from ds2 takes a minimum of an hour of my time or dh's. If I tell him to take his clean clothes up to his room, you'd think I asked him to hike Everest. *sigh*

 

 

ETA: Walking isn't a viable option right now, because I don't have shoes. I'll get a new pair, as soon as I can find them. I've found one kind that fit me, and they don't make them anymore. I've tried four stores, and found nothing. The pair I currently wear are about five years old, and have been worn everyday - they're wrecking my feet. I do an occasional very short walk barefoot, but it's been too rainy for that until the last day or two.


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#63 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 01:54 PM
 
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Could you just throw that stuff away? Donate it to the goodwill or whatever Canadian equivalent?

  

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#64 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:03 PM
 
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I don't really have any advice. It does sound like your ds wants help, and has a sweet side, despite the "trouble" behavior.

I just wanted to say that I understand the feeling of just wishing you didn't have to deal with it, and wanting to "ignore" stuff (not saying your ignoring his behavior, just the wish that it could all just stop). I'm not judging at all. I was there. Fortunately for me, the "problem" in my life that caused me to feel so overwhelmed was temporary. But still, I get it.

I really do think this is more than a discipline issue, which you already know. The faster you can get help, the better. Good luck in working through the system. {{{hugs}}}


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#65 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, so then it seems to me that you need to focus on getting well. I grew up with a mother who was severely depressed. She was coming out of it by the time I rolled around, but my sisters lived through hell. My older sisters had to take on a whole lot of responsibility when they were 7, 8 and 9, kind of like your daughter. And guess what? Every single one of her children has had mental health issues. Gee, I wonder why? I don't blame my mom. This was back in the 60s when there was no treatment for depression. She's lived through hell, medically and emotionally. FIVE members of her family died in the space of 4 years -- 4 of them in a horrific car crash. She did the best she could.

 

I beg your pardon? My daughter spends about 5-6 hours a day outside playing with her friends. Her responsibilities include cleaning up her own room, making lunch for herself (if she wants to), changing an occasional diaper (only that's not really a "responsibility", because she begs to do it), and watching her little sister for a few minutes while I'm in the bathroom.

 

You need to get your mental health in order. You can't just wish yourself well. If you could, you'd be well. I suffer from debilitating anxiety. When I'm in the depths, I can't do anything. But I have learned to call my doctor. Is it easy? No. Does it work. Yes. I'm hoping to break the cycle with my kids by getting help. Even if my kids end up with mental health issues (both have a tendency to anxiety), they'll know there's no shame in getting help and I'll be able to describe what worked for me.

 

You refuse to have anything to do with a doctor or a counselor. Fine. You could see a social worker.


Nope. It doesn't work. Waking into the office - just knowing i have to see a doctor is a trigger for a massive depressive episode. The reality that I need to see a doctor about ds2 is a huge part of what's wrong with me. Seeing a social worker is just more of the same. I don't want their "help". I want to be able to live a life where I never, ever, ever have to deal with those people again.

 

But I don't think you understand how the process works. The first several visits are diagnosis and exploring. Yes, they're going to say some pretty obvious things. That's to make sure that you're on the same page. Furthermore, they're not going to tell you how to get well. They're going to listen, suggest a few things and try to help you see how you can change. They're also going to say some things you don't want to hear. They may even tell other people if they think you're a danger. They can't wave a magic wand. You're resistant to doctors and yet you seem to be expect them to be omniscient and treat things right away. Mental health issues, which you've got in spades and have had since you were a teenager, are not a quick fix. It takes a lot of work.

 

Omniscient? I don't expect them to know anything. I expect them to act as though they know everything.

 

I don't know where you get your information on ADHD, but your son has classic symptoms. The sensory issues often go hand-in-hand with ADHD. It's also possible to have more than one diagnosis. This is why I suggested your husband take your children to the doctor. They need treatment and you are not in a position where you can get them that until you address your own mental health issues. Treatment for ADHD involves medication, diet modification and parenting/family counseling. Parenting a child with ADHD means figuring out what works with your kid, and it's not easy. A friend of mine has a son with ADHD and it's taken 2 years of hard work to help him be successful in school and not destroying the house. What works for typical kids simply doesn't work with him.

 

What "information" on ADHD? I said that people online frequently say my son sounds like he has ADHD, but his symptoms aren't like the people I know in real life who have it. That's not "information". It was an observation. And, fwiw, I've heard the same thing - repeatedly - about Aspergers Syndrome. I don't object to the ADHD diagnosis. I object to the "well, you've given me a lot of information, but I've watched him for five minutes and I'm going to disregard half of it, and make a snap diagnosis". Typical, but still frustrating.

 

Frankly, I'd also put your kids in school. Both of them. Why is it "off the table"? What are you afraid of?  It might also get your kids some help. Not all systems are out to get you.

 

It's off the table because it's off the table. The school system effed me over in every way imaginable. DS1 got through it pretty unscathed, because he's the kind of kid they love - smart, athletic, socially gifted, etc. But, even he says he wishes he could have had another option. If you find the school system acceptable for your own kids, that's your business. It's not acceptable for mine at the present time.

 

Really, what I read from your posts is: You are severely depressed. So severely depressed that you cannot function. So severely depressed that any practical suggestion someone makes is immediately met with "here's why I can't do that". If you weren't depressed, you could think about it at least. You're so depressed that a trip to the swimming pool, which is tiring for most of us, is completely exhausting for you. What can you do to help your mental health?

 

The exhaustion from the swimming pool has bugger all to do with depression. It has to do with hot sun (which I can't cope with at all - I prefer to stay indoors when it's hot out), constant splashing in my face (hated that even as a child) and ds2, as usual, constantly demanding attention from me when I'm right in the middle of something else. Constant interruptions and distractions wear me out. They always have. It has nothing to do with my depression. And, I'd like to know why you think the exhaustion is about the depression. Yes - they can be linked, but one is not equal to the other. I don't get enough sleep. I haven't been getting enough sleep for years. I had four pregnancies, back to back, followed by surgery in my mid-30s to early 40s. I'm worn out, is what I am. Yes. I also struggle with depression, but that's not why I'm tired.

 

I'm also not severely depressed. I've been severely depressed. This is moderate, at worst.


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#66 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Could you just throw that stuff away? Donate it to the goodwill or whatever Canadian equivalent?

 

Throw what stuff away? Our dishes? Our clothes? Our camping gear? The kids art supplies? I said the house is packed. I didn't say it was junk. We've decluttered a lot in the last year, and there is more to go...but most of what's here is our stuff - it's not junk.


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#67 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree with everything Lynn said.

 

Parents have to take care of themselves in order to take care of their kids. Why do flight attendants tell parents to put on their own oxygen masks first? Because an unconscious parent cannot help their child. In the same way, a parent with severe depression cannot effectively help their child. You do come across as suffering from severe depression. You don't have to live with it, you deserve to be happy. Once you have started to get well, then caring for your son will not be so completely overwhelming. Please take care of yourself. There are trustworthy counselors and social workers out there. Your health and well being will benefit from getting help. Your kids will benefit from your getting help. And it's okay to need help. Lots of moms need help, and are still good, loving moms.

 

Lots of moms here, myself included, have lots of experience parenting difficult kids while suffering from depression or other mental and physical health issues themselves. They are trying very hard to help you. Please listen to their very wise advice.

 

Needing or not needing help isn't the issue. Doctors and counselors aren't "help". They're the farthest possible thing from help.

 

I also do agree that if you cannot face doctors or counselors on behalf of your son, your dh needs to do it. Your son needs someone to act on his behalf and access the services he needs. If that's too hard for you right now, your son needs another adult to do it.

 

I think I addressed this in another post, but dh doesn't agree with me about ds2's issues. He'd see the doctor, but I don't know what he'd say to them. And, while he'd do it if he had to, the time slice out of his day would be ridiculous, as he can't drive.


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#68 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay. I'm done. I don't know why I compulsively engage with people, but it's really counter productive.

 

I'll call the freaking doctor on Monday, and start the process.

 

I'm not putting him in school, and I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on that.

 

Seeing a doctor is the worst thing I could do for myself. I have never seen a doctor (with the sole exception of my first visit to the OB when I was pregnant with dd2), and not come out feeling worse than when I went in - not once. I've heard from enough people who have children with special needs that I'm willing to make a massive leap of faith that the medical system might not f**k him up. Taking him to a doctor feels like amazingly irresponsible parenting, but it does seem to be necessary.

 

Thanks for your input. Some of it helped. Some of it didn't. C'est la vie.


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#69 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:40 PM
 
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Doctors are not the enemy. Just like any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I've had my share of both. I had a drunk OB show up for my second child's birth. Drunk. Everyone knew but nobody did anything. I didn't know what to do. It was a nightmare birth that left my dd with a seizure disorder and led me to homebirth.

I had a psych dr threaten us with cps when my late dd was self harming. Her therapist told us to take her to the hospital for an evaluation every time she self harmed. Jerk dr said we needed to learn how to parent her or he'd have her put into fostercare. She died six weeks later.

Oldest DS had eczema on his feet. Horrible eczema. Ped said to go to the er as it was the end of the day and he was going home. Er dr consulted with the oncall ped who had never seen my son and decided, after they sent us home to turn us in to cps saying his feet had been burned. That was a nightmare.

Our family dr, attended the funerals for both of my kids. He saw us through so much. He was amazing. He took us on after our previous dr fired us for having a homebirth. We stopped seeing him when we moved a year ago as 1.5 hours was too much of a drive. (one way)

We have a new family dr. I've been sick and on antibiotics. We ran into her at the firework show last week. She heard my cough, asked if I was better. Said no, told her what was up. She told me to call in the am and she'd get meds faxed to the pharmacy. And she did. No hassle at all. She even makes housecalls!

You keep throwing up excuses as to why nothing will work. How do you expect things to change without putting in the work to make it change? Not being bitchy, I'm serious. This is a serious question and one I've asked myself more than a few times. Change is scary. It's hard work. But if you really want it, you'll find a way. You've had many suggestions here but for whatever reason, none of them will work for you. Ask yourself why that is.

Sit down and make a list of things you want to change/fix. Then take each one and write out concrete ways you can make it happen. Look at the lists, ask for help and support where you need it. Don't say I can't. My gramma used to say "can't never could do anything". Start with the little changes and go from there.

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#70 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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Okay. I'm done. I don't know why I compulsively engage with people, but it's really counter productive.

 

FFS, you know, I've never posted here before, but this thread is killing me.  You've been given a lot of great advice.  You may not like what they have to say, but that's neither here nor there.  The people taking the time to respond don't have to say sh!t to you.  They could just scroll on to the next topic.  Yet they see a woman clearly in need of help and are taking the time to offer up suggestions and advice either because they feel for you or they've been there themselves.  Maybe try being a little less dismissive.  You catch more flies with honey...

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#71 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 03:09 PM
 
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I'm glad you're calling a doctor! That is a great step to take and even though it feels difficult, you're doing it anyway. You should be proud of yourself for that. Good luck.
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#72 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 03:40 PM
 
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Okay so basically your situation is going to continue exactly as normal, and if that is okay with you then go for it.  I do not understand why people come here asking for advice only to dismiss every single good suggestion people have given you.  It sounds like it is impossible for you to do anything to change this, so I vote for hiring a full time nanny.  If anyone chased me around with a knife, it would scare the crap out of me.  I am sorry for your other children.


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#73 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Doctors are not the enemy. Just like any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I've had my share of both. I had a drunk OB show up for my second child's birth. Drunk. Everyone knew but nobody did anything. I didn't know what to do. It was a nightmare birth that left my dd with a seizure disorder and led me to homebirth.
I had a psych dr threaten us with cps when my late dd was self harming. Her therapist told us to take her to the hospital for an evaluation every time she self harmed. Jerk dr said we needed to learn how to parent her or he'd have her put into fostercare. She died six weeks later.
Oldest DS had eczema on his feet. Horrible eczema. Ped said to go to the er as it was the end of the day and he was going home. Er dr consulted with the oncall ped who had never seen my son and decided, after they sent us home to turn us in to cps saying his feet had been burned. That was a nightmare.
Our family dr, attended the funerals for both of my kids. He saw us through so much. He was amazing. He took us on after our previous dr fired us for having a homebirth. We stopped seeing him when we moved a year ago as 1.5 hours was too much of a drive. (one way)
We have a new family dr. I've been sick and on antibiotics. We ran into her at the firework show last week. She heard my cough, asked if I was better. Said no, told her what was up. She told me to call in the am and she'd get meds faxed to the pharmacy. And she did. No hassle at all. She even makes housecalls!
You keep throwing up excuses as to why nothing will work. How do you expect things to change without putting in the work to make it change? Not being bitchy, I'm serious. This is a serious question and one I've asked myself more than a few times. Change is scary. It's hard work. But if you really want it, you'll find a way. You've had many suggestions here but for whatever reason, none of them will work for you. Ask yourself why that is.
Sit down and make a list of things you want to change/fix. Then take each one and write out concrete ways you can make it happen. Look at the lists, ask for help and support where you need it. Don't say I can't. My gramma used to say "can't never could do anything". Start with the little changes and go from there.

 

Doctors aren't your enemy. That's great. They are mine. I"ll call the damned doctor. If that's not good enough, that's too damned bad. I don't have to like the fact that my only option is one that is absolutely intolerable to me. I just have to do it. As long as I suck it up and get ds2 the help he needs, what f**king difference does it make to anybody if I hate every f**king second of it? None. None at all.

 

I get that being a mom means sucking it up. It doesn't mean liking it.

 

Quite frankly, if I make all the changes you all recommend, I'll end up in a situation where ds2 might thrive...and I'll feel as if I'm in prison. Maybe I have to do that, too - but if you expect me to respond to all this with, "yay - I get to wreck all the things I actually like about my life, without getting rid of the ones I don't - AWESOME", you're nuts. I may end up having to turn everything upside-down, throw away things we don't want to throw away, get even less sleep, trash what's left of my health, and lose all the flexibility that's the major advantage of the life we've chosen. I don't have to like it, either. And, I don't have to wrap my brain around ripping up my life in the course of 24 hours. The life you describe with your son sounds awful to me. I'm glad it works for you. I'm glad it works for your ds. It might work for my ds2. It sounds like a freaking nightmare. Throw in regular visits with more doctors (I so, so, so thought I was done with doctors after I had my last baby) and you're all basically telling me that the only way to help ds2 is to destroy everything I like about my life.


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#74 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 04:08 PM
 
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Doctors aren't your enemy. That's great. They are mine. I"ll call the damned doctor. If that's not good enough, that's too damned bad. I don't have to like the fact that my only option is one that is absolutely intolerable to me. I just have to do it. As long as I suck it up and get ds2 the help he needs, what f**king difference does it make to anybody if I hate every f**king second of it? None. None at all.

I get that being a mom means sucking it up. It doesn't mean liking it.

Quite frankly, if I make all the changes you all recommend, I'll end up in a situation where ds2 might thrive...and I'll feel as if I'm in prison. Maybe I have to do that, too - but if you expect me to respond to all this with, "yay - I get to wreck all the things I actually like about my life, without getting rid of the ones I don't - AWESOME", you're nuts. I may end up having to turn everything upside-down, throw away things we don't want to throw away, get even less sleep, trash what's left of my health, and lose all the flexibility that's the major advantage of the life we've chosen. I don't have to like it, either. And, I don't have to wrap my brain around ripping up my life in the course of 24 hours. The life you describe with your son sounds awful to me. I'm glad it works for you. I'm glad it works for your ds. It might work for my ds2. It sounds like a freaking nightmare. Throw in regular visits with more doctors (I so, so, so thought I was done with doctors after I had my last baby) and you're all basically telling me that the only way to help ds2 is to destroy everything I like about my life.

Because things right now are so good? Your children (all of them) are suffering because of your inability to care for yourself and get help. They deserve better. Being a parent means doing crap we dont want to do. Life might even get crappy for a while but after some time and lots of effort it's likely to get better again, even better than you can possibly imagine right now from your dark depressed corner/world view.

  

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#75 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 04:12 PM
 
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You probably don't remember and I've since changed usernames but years ago you haver the advice I needed to leave my ex. I didn't want to, it scared the sh*t out of me and life sucked for a good long while. But I did it and now three years later I can't tell you how much happier I am. I never envisioned this better of a life for myself and absolutely did not believe you when you said it would get better. But it did and I am so grateful for your tough love back then. I hope youll take this tough love from everyone and change things for yourself.

  

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#76 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 04:33 PM
 
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My life sounds like hell? Bwahahahahaha! It's actually a wonderful life. My life was hell and so was the whole families when I was busy whining and doing nothing to fix it. That was hell.

After losing our daughter, we all spiraled out of control. It was seven years of hell. During those seven years we had suicide attempts, a child running away non-stop, a child that stole over 3k from us, physically assaulted me, poisoned me, a child being bullied at school and coming home bruised and battered.

It was enough. We made huge changes. We moved to a small farm in a small town. We got a cow, chickens and horses. Life was so much better once we started making our changes and then eventually the move.

We thought we were finally on track to a better life. Six weeks after the move my 15 yo son hung himself. I crumpled. I lost it. I sat in my bed for weeks. I barely did anything. My little DS got worse and worse.

So I did what I had to do. I pulled on my big girl panties and got busy. I dealt with all the issues. I made myself stick to my routine. I made myself get up each day. I made myself function.

You can sit there and say how hard life is or you can fix it. You have huge issues. Fix them. Your children need help. You need help.

You want to talk about hard life? I have survived more than you can imagine. I have not had an easy life. I've been the abused and neglected child. I've lived through the crazy mother. Been there done that have all the damn t-shirts. You name it, I've been through it.

The difference is? I deal with my shit so that my kids don't pay the price. I've outlived two children who had mental health issues. Ones that were being treated. You don't think I have abject terror dealing with doctors after all of that? You don't think I get it? Well I do. More than you know.

If it takes tearing your life down and building a new one for your kids to be healthy, happy and safe, you do it. You don't get to choose to make them suffer because of your trauma or phobias. They are children who deserve every chance to have a good life so they can be successful at life.

I'm so frustrated right now! You don't want to deal with your sons issues because getting him help infringes on you? Send him to me. Seriously. I'll put my phobias aside to get him the help he needs. I'll put my phobias aside to fight for him and advocate for him. If I, a total stranger am willing to do that for him, you as his mother sure as hell can!

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#77 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 05:31 PM
 
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Doctors aren't your enemy. That's great. They are mine. I"ll call the damned doctor. If that's not good enough, that's too damned bad. I don't have to like the fact that my only option is one that is absolutely intolerable to me. I just have to do it. As long as I suck it up and get ds2 the help he needs, what f**king difference does it make to anybody if I hate every f**king second of it? None. None at all.

 

I get that being a mom means sucking it up. It doesn't mean liking it.

 

Quite frankly, if I make all the changes you all recommend, I'll end up in a situation where ds2 might thrive...and I'll feel as if I'm in prison. Maybe I have to do that, too - but if you expect me to respond to all this with, "yay - I get to wreck all the things I actually like about my life, without getting rid of the ones I don't - AWESOME", you're nuts. I may end up having to turn everything upside-down, throw away things we don't want to throw away, get even less sleep, trash what's left of my health, and lose all the flexibility that's the major advantage of the life we've chosen. I don't have to like it, either. And, I don't have to wrap my brain around ripping up my life in the course of 24 hours. The life you describe with your son sounds awful to me. I'm glad it works for you. I'm glad it works for your ds. It might work for my ds2. It sounds like a freaking nightmare. Throw in regular visits with more doctors (I so, so, so thought I was done with doctors after I had my last baby) and you're all basically telling me that the only way to help ds2 is to destroy everything I like about my life.

 

He's SEVEN. You are a grown woman. Do you have a plan for him to spontaneously overcome his special needs so that you can live the life you want? You don't get to parent the kids you want. You get to parent the kids you have. Yes, you need to suck it up so he has a chance. He won't be in your house forever. But when you give birth, you make a commitment to do the best you can for your child, even if that means parenting differently than you'd like. And the thing is, if you get help, it won't always be a living hell for you. Once he's got something that works for him, you can figure out where you can loosen up.

 

Right now, your inability to act is causing harm to all of your children. ALL of them. Your son isn't learning the skills he needs. Your daughters are being terrorized by him. Your NINE YEAR OLD had to COWER in the bathroom calling you because he was out of control. She had to take her little sister in with her. Sure she gets to play. And then she gets to deal with things that she shouldn't have to deal with. Her play is punctuated by her brother destroying her things, peeing on  her and chasing her around. She does not deserve this. Your son does not deserve this.

 

You are so far into your mental illness that I don't think you'll emerge without help. Your house is so cluttered you can't even find a safe spot to lock up dangerous things? Your son is out of control, your daughter is clearly distressed ,and your 3 year old is 3. You're so depressed you can't get out of bed, take care of the house or take care of the children. You're so paranoid about doctors/social workers/anyone who can help that you are digging yourself into a hole. If it were just you, I wouldn't get upset. But you're dragging your kids down with you.

 

You may not want to change your life. But you owe your kids a life too. They don't have one. And it's your mental illness, phobia of doctors and inability to trust that anyone can help that is stealing it from them.


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#78 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 06:18 PM
 
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Doctors aren't your enemy. That's great. They are mine. I"ll call the damned doctor. If that's not good enough, that's too damned bad. I don't have to like the fact that my only option is one that is absolutely intolerable to me. I just have to do it. As long as I suck it up and get ds2 the help he needs, what f**king difference does it make to anybody if I hate every f**king second of it? None. None at all.

 

I get that being a mom means sucking it up. It doesn't mean liking it.

 

Quite frankly, if I make all the changes you all recommend, I'll end up in a situation where ds2 might thrive...and I'll feel as if I'm in prison. Maybe I have to do that, too - but if you expect me to respond to all this with, "yay - I get to wreck all the things I actually like about my life, without getting rid of the ones I don't - AWESOME", you're nuts. I may end up having to turn everything upside-down, throw away things we don't want to throw away, get even less sleep, trash what's left of my health, and lose all the flexibility that's the major advantage of the life we've chosen. I don't have to like it, either. And, I don't have to wrap my brain around ripping up my life in the course of 24 hours. The life you describe with your son sounds awful to me. I'm glad it works for you. I'm glad it works for your ds. It might work for my ds2. It sounds like a freaking nightmare. Throw in regular visits with more doctors (I so, so, so thought I was done with doctors after I had my last baby) and you're all basically telling me that the only way to help ds2 is to destroy everything I like about my life.

 

well, you've lost me there. i've been sympathetic for a couple of years to your situation... i've never dealt with depression on that scale, but i understand the sense of life being overwhelming, especially with the losses you've suffered.

 

but this? this is just straight up wrong. people have been handling you with kid gloves, despite knowing an awful lot about your history and your repeated lack of change, but now you just sound selfish and abusive.

 

it is WRONG, as a parent, to put your needs ahead of your kids needs. i don't mean putting your baby down in their crib for a few minutes so you can get a breather, i don't mean taking the space and time to recharge and refresh yourself either. this paragraph basically lays out how you're so wrapped up in your own life and problems that you don't even care what it's doing to your kids. you are saying you KNOW that things need to change for your children to thrive, but you basically just don't care enough about their health and wellbeing to sacrifice... what, i'm not even sure. 

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#79 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 06:22 PM
 
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Whoa, I just read this whole thread, and I find myself feeling very very frustrated at you, Lisa.

 

I totally agree with what Lynn said just above me. 

 

Just a few posts above that you said that doctors are your enemy.  That really jumped out at me.  That is not rational.  And it is not fair to have a kid with issues and not deal with that phobia.  I know you keep jumping up and down and screaming that you're going to call, so don't worry, you don't have to say it again.  I know you are going to call on Monday.  But, honestly, the way it sounds like is that if you make one phone call, that will be the most you are able. 

 

If you listen to no other suggestions on this entire thread, please talk to your dh and have him take the burden on.  If he is as awesome as you say he is, then he should be ready and willing to at least get the ball rolling on this for you, whether he thinks chasing siblings with knives is normal behavior or not.  This is one concrete thing that you know needs to be done and you are really not able to do it.  Just take it one step at a time.  If he finds somebody for ds to see, that doesn't mean he has to do all the driving if that is impractical.  But there are things he can do to help.   And, if he honestly doesn't think there is a problem, then I think you need to have a longer discussion with him.

 

Things are not good in your household right now.  You have laid that all out with many, many examples. 

- your son chased your daughters with knives, until they hid in a bathroom

- you are too exhausted to be awake before them, even though this kind of thing goes on

- you have no control over when they go to bed

- you cannot take your children outside when it's hot

- your house is so full of stuff that you can't think of where you could put a tool box, but it is impossible to get rid of any of that stuff because you need it all

And, I think that's just the tip of the iceberg over there.

 

You came here, presumably, looking for help but then you mock and shoot down every last piece of advice offered to you. 

 

All the people who've posted here, myself included, are posting because they want to help you.  Things are not going to get better until you start makign some changes.


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#80 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 06:40 PM
 
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As a parent, I've had to work very hard to be sure that my anxiety, past traumas and other issues don't interfere with my ability to meet my kids' needs. I've had to learn to do a lot of things I did not want to do at the time. Sometimes it's all overwhelming and I don't feel like I can do it another day. But I don't get to give up. My children depend on me utterly to access the healthcare they need, and to give them the supervision, guidance and safe environment that they need. I need to do these things even when I'm exhausted, in pain, anxious or depressed. Sometimes I need help, but I don't get to throw my hands up in the air and stop trying. It has to be done. Even when it's not easy.

 

Sometimes kids need things we don't want to have to deal with, or are afraid of. I was once scared to get my oldest the counseling she needed. I had a thousand reasons for being reluctant. But she needed it, so I did it. We made changes to our lives and parenting that I didn't want to make, but she needed it so we did it. My other kids needed me to make those changes for their physical and emotional safety. All of those changes that I didn't want to make at the time ultimately made our lives BETTER. 

 

My youngest was recently diagnosed with juvenile arthritis. The whole thing sucks. I have phone and social anxiety, and I have to make frequent phone calls and I have to advocate for my daughter. I hate it. It's hard. At least once a month, a whole day is spent traveling to and from the doctor and sitting in the waiting room It's exhausting and disruptive the the whole family's routine. I have to give her meds that terrify me, because they're her best hope for getting well. I hate it. Our whole family had to change the way we eat because of her meds. Did we want to? No, but it keeps her safe so we did it. We can no longer do things we used to love to do as a family because of her constant pain. Sometimes life has other plans and you have to go with it, help your kids and make the best of it. Even when it completely sucks and feels like it's impossible to go on. 

 

No one here is attacking you. No one is saying you have to like or enjoy anything. We all get how hard it is, how hellish it can be. We also know that sometimes, you have to get up and make changes anyway. You get the help you need. You get the help your kids need. You set up a safe environment. You do it because your kids are JUST KIDS, and they need their parent to do it. People are responding to you, honestly but with compassion and kindness, because they care.

 

I wish you and your kids well. 

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#81 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 06:43 PM
 
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Quite frankly, if I make all the changes you all recommend, I'll end up in a situation where ds2 might thrive

Why on earth would you not want your child to thrive?  You chose to bring him into this world and you owe him the best parenting you can give him. 

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#82 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 06:46 PM
 
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I am worried about you and your kids. What level of clutter is your house at that you don't have room for a box?

There are people who can help you! Please reach out in your community and get help.

What is difficult about having children in school? I only have limited experience (kindergarten) but it was a lot easier than having him home FT

DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

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#83 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 07:31 PM
 
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If you PM me your home address and shoe size, I will send you some new shoes.

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#84 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 08:35 PM
 
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Storm Bride,

 

I can hear your pain and your fear coming through you posts, and my heart breaks for you.  At the same time, though, you need to understand that children's safety comes first.  Your babies were in a situation yesterday where someone could have killed them.  They suffered the same trauma they would have suffered if that someone was an adult intruder.  I understand how incredibly difficult seekign help is for you, but at the same time you have to understand that letting what's going on continue is absolutely no different from allowing your toddler to play in traffic because you're tired or ill and need to take a nap.  You've got three children whose lives were in jeopardy today because of your son's risk taking, attention seeking behavior, and because of your own illness.  Even though that illness is not your fault, the situation has to be fixed, and it has to be fixed today. 

 

Here's a couple solutions I can think of.  Yes they're extreme.  Your situation is extreme.

 

1) Admit yourself to the hospital for the depression.  Go to the ER and admit that you're a danger to your children.  You say that walking into a therapist's office makes things worse, well you may need to ride that through in a safe setting.  Have your DH take a leave of absence from work, or find a home daycare willing to take your kids, and go get better.

 

2) Admit your son to the hospital.  I like this solution less well, to be honest, as I think that your family isn't going to heal until you heal, but consider it.

 

3) Call CPS on yourself.  As a mandated reporter if I knew your name or other identifying information I'd call, because your girls were being abused today, and your son neglected.   Where I live, if someone "self-refers" they'll come out, do an evaluation, offer solutions and supports.

 

4) Find the energy to take the appropriate steps to keep everyone safe at home.  Get a door alarm for your son's room and have the girls sleep in your room.  Or bring him in your room and put your bed across the door at night.  Lock up the knives now.  Not tomorrow when you get to the store to buy a lockbox.  Now.  Get up and go put them in the trunk of your car.  Get some plastic ones and cook with them for now -- buy things that don't require sharp knives until things get better.  Then make sure you aren't alone with your kids until things are in control.  One adult needs to be in the room with your son at all times.  Either have your DH take time off work (your child has a diagnosed illness, he should be eligible for FMLA), or hire a neighborhood teenager to be with you and them, or find a daycare or camp, or ship them off to Grandma's.  When camp ends, either hire a nanny or send them to school.  Meanwhile, get medical help for you kid.  Go to the school tomorrow, and start the evaluation process there, and start it at the doctor's too.  Imagine your child had cancer, and think about what you'd do to find the ability to help him, and then do that, because kids die from mental illness and impulsivity just like they die from cancer. 

 

I'm sorry if my tone seems harsh, but your children could have died today.  I know you're a wonderful person and a loving mother, but your children's safety needs to come first.

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#85 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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well, you've lost me there. i've been sympathetic for a couple of years to your situation... i've never dealt with depression on that scale, but i understand the sense of life being overwhelming, especially with the losses you've suffered.

 

but this? this is just straight up wrong. people have been handling you with kid gloves, despite knowing an awful lot about your history and your repeated lack of change, but now you just sound selfish and abusive.

 

it is WRONG, as a parent, to put your needs ahead of your kids needs. i don't mean putting your baby down in their crib for a few minutes so you can get a breather, i don't mean taking the space and time to recharge and refresh yourself either. this paragraph basically lays out how you're so wrapped up in your own life and problems that you don't even care what it's doing to your kids. you are saying you KNOW that things need to change for your children to thrive, but you basically just don't care enough about their health and wellbeing to sacrifice... what, i'm not even sure. 

 

I'm not going to say what I want to say, because I'd get banned.

 

I'm going to call the damned doctor. So, what's your problem? And, I don't know that I need to make such and such changes - people who have never even met my son are saying that I need to. And, spare me the "children". There are serious problems that exist with ds2. My other three are doing very, very well.

 

And, since you don't even know what I'm talking about ("but you basically just don't care enough about their health and wellbeing to sacrifice... what, i'm not even sure"), what are you going on about?


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#86 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Because things right now are so good? Your children (all of them) are suffering because of your inability to care for yourself and get help. They deserve better. Being a parent means doing crap we dont want to do. Life might even get crappy for a while but after some time and lots of effort it's likely to get better again, even better than you can possibly imagine right now from your dark depressed corner/world view.

 

Lots of things about our life are really, really good, yeah. You think my girls spend all their time cowering in bathrooms, and being run over by their brother? I'm not going to rehash all the things people have said, as this thread is getting really drawn out and ridiculous. There has, however, been a fair bit of advice in this thread that would trash most of the things that help dd1 thrive, and help me thrive...and that ds2 actually enjoys quite a lot.


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#87 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My life sounds like hell? Bwahahahahaha! It's actually a wonderful life. My life was hell and so was the whole families when I was busy whining and doing nothing to fix it. That was hell.
After losing our daughter, we all spiraled out of control. It was seven years of hell. During those seven years we had suicide attempts, a child running away non-stop, a child that stole over 3k from us, physically assaulted me, poisoned me, a child being bullied at school and coming home bruised and battered.
It was enough. We made huge changes. We moved to a small farm in a small town. We got a cow, chickens and horses. Life was so much better once we started making our changes and then eventually the move.
We thought we were finally on track to a better life. Six weeks after the move my 15 yo son hung himself. I crumpled. I lost it. I sat in my bed for weeks. I barely did anything. My little DS got worse and worse.
So I did what I had to do. I pulled on my big girl panties and got busy. I dealt with all the issues. I made myself stick to my routine. I made myself get up each day. I made myself function.
You can sit there and say how hard life is or you can fix it. You have huge issues. Fix them. Your children need help. You need help.
You want to talk about hard life? I have survived more than you can imagine. I have not had an easy life. I've been the abused and neglected child. I've lived through the crazy mother. Been there done that have all the damn t-shirts. You name it, I've been through it.
The difference is? I deal with my shit so that my kids don't pay the price. I've outlived two children who had mental health issues. Ones that were being treated. You don't think I have abject terror dealing with doctors after all of that? You don't think I get it? Well I do. More than you know.
If it takes tearing your life down and building a new one for your kids to be healthy, happy and safe, you do it. You don't get to choose to make them suffer because of your trauma or phobias. They are children who deserve every chance to have a good life so they can be successful at life.
I'm so frustrated right now! You don't want to deal with your sons issues because getting him help infringes on you? Send him to me. Seriously. I'll put my phobias aside to get him the help he needs. I'll put my phobias aside to fight for him and advocate for him. If I, a total stranger am willing to do that for him, you as his mother sure as hell can!

 

No - I don't want to. But, I'm going to. It's not enough for any of you oh-so-compassionate people that I'll do it, even if I hate it, is it? I have to f**king like it, too. Well, I don't. Sue me.

 

And, yeah - your life sounds hellish to me. That doesn't mean it's hellish, in any objective sense.

 

Oddly enough, none of the people who actually know me or my son think he's living in some kind of hell. Nobody thinks my daughters are. The fact that I don't just jump on every suggestion people make and say, "yeah - I'll do that tonight" doesn't mean things are so bloody awful around here.

 

Every single child pays some price or other for their parent's issues, but my kids aren't paying anywhere near the price you all seem to think they are...and I push my comfort zone every freaking day, in a lot of ways, to get them what they need. I just don't post about everything that goes well in my life, because I really don't need to.


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Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#88 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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He's SEVEN. You are a grown woman. Do you have a plan for him to spontaneously overcome his special needs so that you can live the life you want? You don't get to parent the kids you want. You get to parent the kids you have. Yes, you need to suck it up so he has a chance. He won't be in your house forever. But when you give birth, you make a commitment to do the best you can for your child, even if that means parenting differently than you'd like. And the thing is, if you get help, it won't always be a living hell for you. Once he's got something that works for him, you can figure out where you can loosen up.

 

My life isn't a living hell for me now. What the hell are you talking about "if I get help" for? Yes - I have issues with depression, and everybody on this thread has taken those and run with them to decide that's what my exhaustion is all about, too. That doesn't make it so.

 

Right now, your inability to act is causing harm to all of your children. ALL of them. Your son isn't learning the skills he needs. Your daughters are being terrorized by him. Your NINE YEAR OLD had to COWER in the bathroom calling you because he was out of control. She had to take her little sister in with her. Sure she gets to play. And then she gets to deal with things that she shouldn't have to deal with. Her play is punctuated by her brother destroying her things, peeing on  her and chasing her around. She does not deserve this. Your son does not deserve this.

 

You are so far into your mental illness that I don't think you'll emerge without help. Your house is so cluttered you can't even find a safe spot to lock up dangerous things?

 

I can't find a safe spot to lock up dangerous things that I use multiple times a day - no. The spots where I could put a lockbox are very difficult to access and I may as well just throw out the knives for all the good they'd do me. There's a big difference between not being able to find a safe spot, and not being able to find a safe, accessible spot. I may be able to find somewhere, but it's not going to happen overnight.

 

Your son is out of control, your daughter is clearly distressed ,and your 3 year old is 3. You're so depressed you can't get out of bed, take care of the house or take care of the children. You're so paranoid about doctors/social workers/anyone who can help that you are digging yourself into a hole. If it were just you, I wouldn't get upset. But you're dragging your kids down with you.

 

I get out of bed every freaking morning. What the f**k are you talking about? Yes - the house is a cluttered mess...but I decluttered a significant area day before yesterday. Our laundry is all done. My kids are eating three square a day, getting out to do stuff on a regular basis, having conversations, playing games, etc. My exhaustion makes constant direct supervision of ds2 (which is what I was addressing when the subject of exhaustion came up) pretty much impossible. That doesn't mean my kids aren't being cared for. I don't sit generally post about "ds2 and I played Battleship today, and we had a great time" or "dd1 helped me make dinner" or "we all went on a walk to clean up the neighbourhood today - ds2 is really fed up with people littering all over the place" or "ds2 and I are going swimming tonight". You seem to think I sit around and stare at a wall while my children run amok.

 

You may not want to change your life. But you owe your kids a life too. They don't have one. And it's your mental illness, phobia of doctors and inability to trust that anyone can help that is stealing it from them.

 

My kids don't have a life? Tell them that. I like hearing them laugh. Yes - we need to make changes for ds2, which we will make, when we can figure out what they are. The fact that I'm not doing everything people have recommended, or jumping for joy about it, doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.


The only things I have flat out said won't happen are seeking "help" for my depression, and putting the kids into school in September (and I have left the possibility of doing so with ds2 on the table). The rest is all up for consideration. Well, I'm not going to set my alarm for 6:00 am, either, but I don't actually think my children need to see me hospitalized, either. (No - I'm not kidding. The last time I was running even close to this tired, I was on the verge of complete collapse and hospitalization for almost a month. Since my kids don't get up at the same time every morning, setting an alarm to beat them out of bed just isn't going to work. I may ask ds2 to come in and wake me up when he gets up, though. He'd probably like that.)


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#89 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 09:09 PM
 
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Doctors aren't your enemy. That's great. They are mine. I"ll call the damned doctor. If that's not good enough, that's too damned bad. I don't have to like the fact that my only option is one that is absolutely intolerable to me. I just have to do it. As long as I suck it up and get ds2 the help he needs, what f**king difference does it make to anybody if I hate every f**king second of it? None. None at all. NOOOOOOOOOOO!! It freaking doesn't. You have a responsiblity to help your son, at the expense of your own personal comfort.  Do you think every mom is all WHOOPADIE DOO all the time?

 

I get that being a mom means sucking it up. It doesn't mean liking it.

 

Quite frankly, if I make all the changes you all recommend, I'll end up in a situation where ds2 might thrive...and I'll feel as if I'm in prison. Maybe I have to do that, too - but if you expect me to respond to all this with, "yay - I get to wreck all the things I actually like about my life, without getting rid of the ones I don't - AWESOME", you're nuts.What exactly do you like so much about your life that its worth damaging your children?  Laying around the house?  Sleeping all day?  Constantly living in your cocoon of fear?   I may end up having to turn everything upside-down, throw away things we don't want to throw away, get even less sleep, trash what's left of my health, and lose all the flexibility that's the major advantage of the life we've chosen. I don't have to like it, either. And, I don't have to wrap my brain around ripping up my life in the course of 24 hours. The life you describe with your son sounds awful to me. I'm glad it works for you. I'm glad it works for your ds. It might work for my ds2. It sounds like a freaking nightmare. Throw in regular visits with more doctors (I so, so, so thought I was done with doctors after I had my last baby) and you're all basically telling me that the only way to help ds2 is to destroy everything I like about my life. YOU desperately need mental health help for yourself, as well as for your son.  I just don't understand your resistance to do anything to help your child just because it might make your life unpleasant.  If you feel that strongly than you how the hell do you function day to day?  I'm a mandated reporter. If I personally ran across a case like your's I'd call CPS in a hot second. I've done it before and I will probably have to do it again. 

Get yourself some help.  Get your son some help so that he has the tools to survive and thrive in the world.  And ffs, send your kids to school.  You are harming them by keeping them at home and not doing anything to educate them.  Also, they will receive services at school that they need.  Please, if you do nothing else, do this.  Give them half a chance.  If you won't help yourself, please do something to help your kids. 


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#90 of 166 Old 07-07-2012, 09:18 PM
 
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Seriously is there anything left to be said?  Enough is enough.  When someone is down you don't keep stomping on them.  It's Saturday she said she would call Monday. 

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