I Feel Like DD is ignoring me... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 15 Old 08-01-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So here is whats going on:

 

  • I say no to anything, She walks past me and does it anyways
  • I ask her to stop, she says 'one more' and does it ten more times
  • I say 'go to bed' or 'lay down'  she gets up and does as she pleases
  • i tell her no neighborhood children in my house, she brings in three kids as I'm vacuuming or cleaning
  • I tell her don't hold the door open or your doggie runs away: she pushes the door open and the dog runs away(we always get him back)
  • she asks' can I have a sleep over?' i say 'After your room is clean' she says " I cant..."

 

She either has an excuse for everything, or she out right ignores me and goes about her merry way......

 

 

DD is 6( 7 soon), and I am honestly at my wits end.  She has been this way for three years.  I thought it was a two year old thing, but she is almost 7.  She is super smart, we haven't had her evaluated, but her teachers tell us she is beyond other kids in art and math.

 

Yesterday was terrible...I never wanted to spank her..(I am bawling right now, thank god for spell check)I never thought I would do it, never thought I could...

 

She just kept going jumping from my coffee table to my couch over and over and over again.....I told her no, asked her to stop please stop....

She sat in the middle of the table and kicked her feet up to put her sandals on....

 

My heart is breaking..I have no idea what to do.

 

As I am writing this she has gotten out of bed four times over these few minutes( We put her down at ten pm she actually falls asleep after 1am)......

 

I never wanted to spank her, I always wanted to discipline her differently....My parents never spanked me.

 

DH and I always swaddled her when she had difficulties as an infant.  If she woke at night I breastfed her, DH wrapped her and she went back to sleep....I miss that

 

Sorry for the rambling....DH and I are at a loss... We cant even sit on the same couch without her squeezing between us telling us we cant touch cause " that's my mom"

 

Honestly we have had to lock our door or even go as far as to book a sitter and a hotel room in order to have "us time"

 

Ideas??


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#2 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 07:35 AM
 
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So here is whats going on:

 

  • I say no to anything, She walks past me and does it anyways  And then what do YOU do?
  • I ask her to stop, she says 'one more' and does it ten more times  Again, what do YOU do?
  • I say 'go to bed' or 'lay down'  she gets up and does as she pleases  While you.... what?
  • i tell her no neighborhood children in my house, she brings in three kids as I'm vacuuming or cleaning  And you usher them back out with a reminder to DD that you said this wasn't a good time?
  • I tell her don't hold the door open or your doggie runs away: she pushes the door open and the dog runs away(we always get him back)  Sounds like a latch out of her reach would help.
  • she asks' can I have a sleep over?' i say 'After your room is clean' she says " I cant..."  And so she doesn't have sleepovers, right?

 

 

It seriously sounds to me like your DD is all but screaming for boundaries.  Like maybe she's even ramping up her misbehavior in search of a response.  You need to set some limits - kind, reasonable, FIRM ones - for everyone's sanity.

 

That means, when you say "don't do that" and she does it anyway, there has to be a consequence.  I hate time outs, because enforcement is just a pain, it may be only a few minutes, but it's a few minutes of me standing over the kid like a prison guard, barking that s/he has to stay on the couch and stay seated and NO JUMPING.  It's much easier for me to take something away (particularly something that has been inappropriately used or fought over), and put it out of reach for a while, but that's really hard when it's stuff like jumping on the furniture.

 

But I'll send a kid to her boring room, or tell her that if she insists on risking injury to herself and the furniture, she's going to have to come hang out where I am so that I can keep her adequately supervised and make sure she doesn't get hurt.  I'll sling a kid over my shoulder and march her out of the room, and then dump her butt on a kitchen chair and tell her that she has to stay in here, and she can help with dishes, or sit at the table, but those are the options.  That kind of jumping on the furniture tells me we need to get outside as soon as possible.

 

I have no magic formula for keeping a kid in bed.  I have decided that, in my house, if a child is in his or her room, and there are no alarming noises, that kid is as good as sleeping.  I will get REALLY unsympathetic to a kid who wants to play whack-a-mole with bedtime.  "It's bedtime.  Go back to bed."  "We tucked you in twice already.  We're not doing that again."  "We have a big day tomorrow.  We all need rest."  "I don't care if you're sorry, I care if you're in bed."

 

Make it clear that YOU are the person who decides who gets to touch you.  "I know I'm your mom!  He's my husband!  I want to cuddle him!"  Think of it as groundwork for the important lesson about how SHE decides who gets to touch her.

 

There are worse things then locking a seven year-old out of your bedroom.  It's totally okay to do that.

 

And on spanking - I've cracked and spanked my kids, and it didn't help and I felt awful, and I didn't do it again.  For me, getting to that point was a sign that I had to be firmer about my needs and limits.  We're all touchier, and more likely to do things we'll regret, when we're overwhelmed.  Your daughter is being genuinely overwhelming.  Figure out limits that work for you, and then enforce the heck out of them, and when she complains (because she will) remind yourself that she may hate it, but that doesn't mean it isn't good for her, and eventually, she will realize that on her own.

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#3 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It seriously sounds to me like your DD is all but screaming for boundaries.  Like maybe she's even ramping up her misbehavior in search of a response.  You need to set some limits - kind, reasonable, FIRM ones - for everyone's sanity.Yes, exactly!

 

That means, when you say "don't do that" and she does it anyway, there has to be a consequence.  I hate time outs, because enforcement is just a pain, it may be only a few minutes, but it's a few minutes of me standing over the kid like a prison guard, barking that s/he has to stay on the couch and stay seated and NO JUMPING.  It's much easier for me to take something away (particularly something that has been inappropriately used or fought over), and put it out of reach for a while, but that's really hard when it's stuff like jumping on the furniture.So we actually thought it was a lack of activity issue(as suggested by our Ped)but she still did the same thing even after being enrolled into gymnastics.  We tried the Gymnastics for two years, then she started throwing fits because it became "work" & she wasnt having any fun(although she was really good).  So now we are thinking Jr Cheer Squad this year.

 

But I'll send a kid to her boring room, or tell her that if she insists on risking injury to herself and the furniture, she's going to have to come hang out where I am so that I can keep her adequately supervised and make sure she doesn't get hurt.  I'll sling a kid over my shoulder and march her out of the room, and then dump her butt on a kitchen chair and tell her that she has to stay in here, and she can help with dishes, or sit at the table, but those are the options.  That kind of jumping on the furniture tells me we need to get outside as soon as possible.

So, The only problem I have always had with Time Outs, is that I either have to hold the door closed so she doesnt run rampant screaming like a banshee, or im placing her back in her time out spot(where ever that may be at the moment)30+ times.  I usually lose count and give up after about try #35 of picking her back up and carrying her back to time out...(Nanny 911 style)

 

I have no magic formula for keeping a kid in bed.  I have decided that, in my house, if a child is in his or her room, and there are no alarming noises, that kid is as good as sleeping.  I will get REALLY unsympathetic to a kid who wants to play whack-a-mole with bedtime.  "It's bedtime.  Go back to bed."  "We tucked you in twice already.  We're not doing that again."  "We have a big day tomorrow.  We all need rest."  "I don't care if you're sorry, I care if you're in bed."

We actually cant get her to sleep in the same specific spot.  So she decides each night where she wants to sleep, the problem is getting her to settle down.  She feels like she is "missing out" on something cool by going to bed so she wants to "party" every night and goes super strong until she drops exausted at about midnight.

 

Make it clear that YOU are the person who decides who gets to touch you.  "I know I'm your mom!  He's my husband!  I want to cuddle him!"  Think of it as groundwork for the important lesson about how SHE decides who gets to touch her.

 

There are worse things then locking a seven year-old out of your bedroom.  It's totally okay to do that. Well, the more recent issue these last few weeks is that she can now figure out how to pick the lock....

 

And on spanking - I've cracked and spanked my kids, and it didn't help and I felt awful, and I didn't do it again.  For me, getting to that point was a sign that I had to be firmer about my needs and limits.  We're all touchier, and more likely to do things we'll regret, when we're overwhelmed.  Your daughter is being genuinely overwhelming.  Figure out limits that work for you, and then enforce the heck out of them, and when she complains (because she will) remind yourself that she may hate it, but that doesn't mean it isn't good for her, and eventually, she will realize that on her own.

 

When she ignores me after I tell her no, she goes about her business.  So when she brings in kids I push them back outside,She never has sleep overs which is unfortunate.  When I ask her to clean her toys up her response is that she cant, her arms are tired, or she doesnt know where they go.  We are now at a point that we are having her go through her room and pick toys to give to other children because she hasnt cleaned them up or used them.

To me & DH it just feels like and endless circle....Groundhog day every day

She has had this behavior for close to three years now. 

I think we actually might have to get her involved in more activites in order to stimulate her.  It almost seems like she isnt stimulated enough.

Im also thinking this has a lot to do with me working.  So Im also trying to change jobs(without sacrificing too much financially)so that I have a lot more time to get DD involved in activites.  I want to make sure if we get her into things I have the availability to be able to get her to events for what ever she is doing.

 

Thanks so much for your wonderful advice.  Its really helpful!

 

 


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#4 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 06:18 PM
 
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I'm going to base my answers on the assumption that the things you're asking her to do and not do are reasonable, you're asking politely, and you give her reasons behind it and you're not just barking orders/micromanaging...because it sounds like most of the examples below are reasonable requests.  I would still, within the advice below, make sure you're really getting her attention "X, I need your attention for a minute - {request}", asking her to repeat back what you said "Please tell me what I just asked you so I know you heard and understand", and make sure she knows the reason why your'e asking her to do it (evenif you've explained it 37 million times before).  Some kids are just ..persistent.  Having said all that....

 

 

 

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  • I say no to anything, She walks past me and does it anyways

 

I would go get her and stop her and/or walk her back to where you were, and say, "I asked you to not do that because X, and you did it anyay.  That's not OK. Next time please listen."

 

  • I ask her to stop, she says 'one more' and does it ten more times

 

I would go get her, stop her, and say, "I asked you to stop, and you kept doing it.  That's not OK. Next time please stop when I ask you to."  (And consider when it's time to stop things, build in "5 more times" before you really have to be done)

 

  

  • I say 'go to bed' or 'lay down'  she gets up and does as she pleases

 

I would walk her back to bed and tell her sheneeds to stay in her room.  Repeatedly. I agree with the poster that said if she's in her room I wouldn't fight about whether she's in bed or not.  My kids, I had to use computer time at one point because they kept coming out to stall with various bogus requests.  It's one of the few random punitive things we've done, but we couldn't find a more logical solution that worked for them. 

 

  • i tell her no neighborhood children in my house, she brings in three kids as I'm vacuuming or cleaning

 

I would send the kids home, and not let her play outside the rest of the day.

 

  • I tell her don't hold the door open or your doggie runs away: she pushes the door open and the dog runs away(we always get him back)

 

This is the tough one for me.  Can't let the dog run away, and there's really no other logical consequence, other than she's not allowed near the doors, but that's kind of abstract.  Can you get a door latch way above her reach so that she cannot open the door?  Otherwise I'd come up with whatever is important to her and use that as a consequence.  That's always a last resort to me, the random consequences.

 

  • she asks' can I have a sleep over?' i say 'After your room is clean' she says " I cant..."

 

Then she doesn't get a sleepover. And you don't entertain the whining/fit.

 

 

 

She just kept going jumping from my coffee table to my couch over and over and over again.....I told her no, asked her to stop please stop....

She sat in the middle of the table and kicked her feet up to put her sandals on....

 

I had a rule for a while that if you jumped or crawled over the furniture, you were not welcome on the furniture the rest of the day and had to sit on the floor.  They had plenty of climbing and jumping opportunities in other places of the house and outside, my living room furniture was not one of them.

 

 

Sorry for the rambling....DH and I are at a loss... We cant even sit on the same couch without her squeezing between us telling us we cant touch cause " that's my mom"

 

"I am your mom.  And I love you.  Daddy is my husband and I love him, too.  There's enough love for all of us, and right now I want to sit next to daddy.  You can sit on this other side of me, or the other side of daddy. "

 

 

Honestly we have had to lock our door or even go as far as to book a sitter and a hotel room in order to have "us time"

This is normal - we have a latch on our door. 

 

 

I mean this in the nicest way possible - you need to pick the limits, and then ENFORCE THEM.  Not after she's ignored you 10 times; the first time.  And every time.  It is going to majorly suck for a while, probably - you'll just have to power through the fits. I wouldn't blindside her with this, I'd let her know that things haven't been going well and you all need to make some changes.

 

A 6-year-old that doesn't want to clean toys probably doesn't need a lot of toys.  My kids were balking and I approached them not from a "you suck and are a brat and don't deserve toys" approach, but from a "look- you clearly cannot handle this much stuff if you cannot manage to keep it put away.  Let's pick your favorite 5 things and put the rest in storage and see if you miss it.  If not, we can get rid of it - if so, we'll bring it out and as long as you can manage it, you can keep it."   I WILL note that when I ask them to clean, they still require a fair amount of specific instructions.  Saying "clean your room" is overwhelming for them.  So I "coach" - Grab any clothes and tak care of them....OK, now handle all the books you see.  Great, pick up the papers and garbage.  Now finish up with your legos and you're done.  They are 6 and 8. 

 

All of this can be done in a gentle, calm, but firm manner, you don't have to be a mean jerk about it.  Talking about respect for things and people NOT in the heat of the moment, but in down times.  You can talk to her beforehand, discuss the problem, potential solutions, and even solicit her input.  But once you decide how you're going to handle it, you need to handle it and not give her so many chances to see if you really mean what you're saying. 


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#5 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 07:28 PM
 
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I'll also note that phrasing things in the positive, instead of the "don't" or phrasing as a question makes a world of difrerence, at least with my kids.  Sooooo..."

 

"Please be sure to keep the door shut and keep the dog inside." instead of "Don't leave the door open."

 

And, telling her what she should do instead next time also really helps.  It's not just enough to tell her what not to do, because that leaves the door wide open. "Next time you want to cuddle with us please ask nicely instead of wedging between us and claiming me.  That's rude and not OK."
 

"Next time you want one more turn down the slide just ask nicely instead of running off and doing it yourself."


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#6 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 08:03 PM
 
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I think you need to decide what boundaries you want and will enforce with your husband then sit her down together and let her know that you have accidentally taught her she can ignore you but that is changing from this point on then tell her the new boundaries and that you will help her listen everytime. I would also spend the next few weeks waking her up earlier and moving bedtime back to an earlier hour if it isn't working for you to have her up until one. School will start in a month in most places so you can use getting ready for that as the reason. When I do this with dd I make sure we have somewhere fun to be for the first few afternoons like a indoor play place or a swimming pool so i don't have to put many boundaries in place when she is tired. I al's read and fell in love with the phrase "you don't have to go up sleep, you do have to be in bed with the lights out" followed by no more engaging in arguments .
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#7 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm going to base my answers on the assumption that the things you're asking her to do and not do are reasonable, you're asking politely, and you give her reasons behind it and you're not just barking orders/micromanaging...because it sounds like most of the examples below are reasonable requests. I would still, within the advice below, make sure you're really getting her attention "X, I need your attention for a minute - {request}", asking her to repeat back what you said "Please tell me what I just asked you so I know you heard and understand", and make sure she knows the reason why your'e asking her to do it (evenif you've explained it 37 million times before). Some kids are just ..persistent. Having said all that....

 

Yes, so example:

 

I say no to anything, She walks past me and does it anyways:

No Soda after a certain time of day, and no carmel colored soda(basically only 7up or Ginger ale as a treat)ever.  She comes to me and asks for soda at 8:30 at night and my instant reply is 'No" because its already past the time.  She then goes and opens a soda anyways.  I grab the soda from her, and put it back, tell her again 'no', she then runs for the fridge and tries to open it before I get to it.  I stand against the fridge with my full body weight so she cant open it, She hits,yanks on the handle, hits me again, stomps her feet, screams, then goes into a full fit on my kitchen floor.

 

I ask her to stop, she says 'one more' and does it ten more times:

She stands on my coffee table and jumps from the table to the couch, or jumps from one couch across the room to the other, or she turns her chair upside down and then runs accross the room in an attempt to lunge over it. These arent safe activites, so I ask her to stop.  Her options are 'sit/play nice/safe or go outside and run laps if you cant' her response is "just once more!!" then I again give her the choices, she then speeds up her activites in an effort to get more 'times' in before her time out for not listening.

 

My response to this is to then pick her up and place her on my porch and tell her to go play outside(provided the weather is ok and it isnt dark out).

 

I say 'go to bed' or 'lay down' she gets up and does as she pleases

this one is a delicate dance for us.  Ive tried just 'pretending to sleep' but the problem is she is very active and decides to do as she pleases.  So to avoid a disaster(fire, injury etc etc)I end up staying up with her to supervise.

I think as school starts this will become less and less of an issue.  She thinks she is missing something special by going to bed.

 

As far as the dog thing, thats more of her just understanding not to open the door.  we will get there its just a piece of the not listening puzzle that adds to the mounting frusteration.

 

as far as setting boundaries and sticking to them, I tried something new in the last 24 hours.  I grabbed a garbage bag and hung it near her door.  So this is a symbol, that anytime she breaks mom & dads rules a favorite item going in the bag.  If the bag gets full it goes to goodwill.  She then has to earn her things(toys, jewelry etc)back by doing good deeds.  I drew her pictures and we talked about examples.  So for instance, putting her 'dirties' by 'mommy's washer' every morning instead of under her bed so her clothes get clean.  The obvious consequence I gave her is that if I cant find her clothes, they dont get washed and she goes naked.

If no things are in the bag at the end of each week, she can then trade an old item from her room she doesnt want for a treat, or a trip somewhere on family day(i.e. go to the movies, zoo, aquarium etc). 

 

So this was a compilation between DH & I.  We are going to see how this pans out after a few weeks....


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#8 of 15 Old 08-02-2012, 10:16 PM
 
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Your last post makes it sound like you do try to have boundaries and she could be acting out for other reasons or needing them implemented in a different way. I think a family counselor might be a good idea. It sounds like you might be stuck in a relationship that is more like a sibling one than a parent/child one. Throwing away her possessions is an angry reaction and one you will most likely regret because it is incredibly hurtful. It is a solution that teaches kids to stop letting themselves care about things because their possessions are used to cause emotional pain in retaliation. It sounds like you are very very overwhelmed and I really urge you to seek local outside help. I'm really not trying to be hurtful, I started down the retaliatory path a few times and these are the moments I deeply regret.
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#9 of 15 Old 08-03-2012, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Your last post makes it sound like you do try to have boundaries and she could be acting out for other reasons or needing them implemented in a different way. I think a family counselor might be a good idea. It sounds like you might be stuck in a relationship that is more like a sibling one than a parent/child one. Throwing away her possessions is an angry reaction and one you will most likely regret because it is incredibly hurtful. It is a solution that teaches kids to stop letting themselves care about things because their possessions are used to cause emotional pain in retaliation. It sounds like you are very very overwhelmed and I really urge you to seek local outside help. I'm really not trying to be hurtful, I started down the retaliatory path a few times and these are the moments I deeply regret.

I agree, that's the struggle is finding how to give her the type of structure she needs. Honestly when it comes to possessions she has her few favorites, but she has waaaay too much stuff. She was given so much over these last few years by others.

I would agree on the counseling if I could find a counselor that doesn't place all the blame on me like the last time. Its hard to find someone to listen, because she clams up in public and then most outside sources think its in my head and I'm overreacting.

I ordered some books last night online to read as well. My mom suggested that.

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#10 of 15 Old 08-04-2012, 09:41 PM
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Yes, so example:

 

I say no to anything, She walks past me and does it anyways:

No Soda after a certain time of day, and no carmel colored soda(basically only 7up or Ginger ale as a treat)ever.  She comes to me and asks for soda at 8:30 at night and my instant reply is 'No" because its already past the time.  She then goes and opens a soda anyways.  I grab the soda from her, and put it back, tell her again 'no', she then runs for the fridge and tries to open it before I get to it.  I stand against the fridge with my full body weight so she cant open it, She hits,yanks on the handle, hits me again, stomps her feet, screams, then goes into a full fit on my kitchen floor.

 

Time to remove the soda from the house.  I know it sucks that you can't have something you want, and believe me I know how awesome a frosty can of soda can be.  But if there is no soda, there is no power struggle over whether or not your dd can have a soda because there isn't any soda to have.  I've done this for my kids on multiple occasions (and we ultimately made it permanent - the amount of junk food/soda we have in the house is the amount we are willing to let the kids eat/drink whenever they want), and it is a million times easier than arguing over who is allowed to have how much of what and when.

 

I ask her to stop, she says 'one more' and does it ten more times:

She stands on my coffee table and jumps from the table to the couch, or jumps from one couch across the room to the other, or she turns her chair upside down and then runs accross the room in an attempt to lunge over it. These arent safe activites, so I ask her to stop.  Her options are 'sit/play nice/safe or go outside and run laps if you cant' her response is "just once more!!" then I again give her the choices, she then speeds up her activites in an effort to get more 'times' in before her time out for not listening.

 

My response to this is to then pick her up and place her on my porch and tell her to go play outside(provided the weather is ok and it isnt dark out).

 

She isn't up to the challenge of making safe choices right now. Don't bother saying no or stop.  Pick her up and move her to a safer area.  

 

I say 'go to bed' or 'lay down' she gets up and does as she pleases

this one is a delicate dance for us.  Ive tried just 'pretending to sleep' but the problem is she is very active and decides to do as she pleases.  So to avoid a disaster(fire, injury etc etc)I end up staying up with her to supervise.

I think as school starts this will become less and less of an issue.  She thinks she is missing something special by going to bed.

 

It sounds like your dd is having an extremely difficult time following directions.  She's not benefiting from a self-directed bedtime, and neither are you.  Make the bedtime routine as consistent as you can.  Walk her through the whole thing - bath, teeth, jammies, story, bed, goodnight.  Put a chair outside her door and sit there with your book.  Be patient.  Be boring. 

 

As far as the dog thing, thats more of her just understanding not to open the door.  we will get there its just a piece of the not listening puzzle that adds to the mounting frusteration.

 

Unless you have dangerous weather, like a storm with gale force winds or lightning or dangerous heat, it might help to move most of her daily routine outside.  She can eat outside.  She can run around and jump off things outside.  She can do chores outside.  You can bring the dog outside on a leash.  If she has no chores, now might be a great time to create some.  Weeding is good.  It's a great time to start digging beds for Fall-planted bulbs.  She can "wash" the car with the hose.  You want to find the spot where it is most difficult for her to get in trouble, and spend as much time there as you can. 

 

as far as setting boundaries and sticking to them, I tried something new in the last 24 hours.  I grabbed a garbage bag and hung it near her door.  So this is a symbol, that anytime she breaks mom & dads rules a favorite item going in the bag.  If the bag gets full it goes to goodwill.  She then has to earn her things(toys, jewelry etc)back by doing good deeds.  I drew her pictures and we talked about examples.  So for instance, putting her 'dirties' by 'mommy's washer' every morning instead of under her bed so her clothes get clean.  The obvious consequence I gave her is that if I cant find her clothes, they dont get washed and she goes naked.

If no things are in the bag at the end of each week, she can then trade an old item from her room she doesnt want for a treat, or a trip somewhere on family day(i.e. go to the movies, zoo, aquarium etc). 

 

So this was a compilation between DH & I.  We are going to see how this pans out after a few weeks....

I hope it goes well. 

 

What strikes me about your posts is that you are describing a really high level of energy and a lot of boundary testing.  The boundary thing is a little unusual for a seven-year-old - usually they know where the limits are at that point (they might ask about something and accept no, they might just get or do whatever it is for themselves - openly if they know it's OK, covertly if they know it's forbidden, they might not ask AND not bother crossing the lines, but they usually don't engage in constant testing with familiar adults in familiar environments at 7).  The combination suggests that for some reason, your dd feels uncertain about how things work.  She may be feeling anxious and insecure - something like the fit on the kitchen floor because she can't have a soda might be about anger over being thwarted, or it might be about checking to make sure that the soda situation really does work the way she thinks it's supposed to work even when she attacks the system. 

 

Kids who are feeling anxious and insecure often benefit from predictable, consistent routines.  They will test them, but once the tests have been passed, they feel comforted and empowered by their ability to predict and control events. 

 

Sometimes, anxiety and insecurity are the results of a child not being able to pick up information that seems clear and intuitive to others around them.  Sensory issues, ADHD, and a bunch of other things can make it difficult for a child to pick up information about things like routines, rules, and social interactions.  If you haven't already, you might want to consider talking to your pediatrician about a behavioral/psychological evaluation. 

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#11 of 15 Old 08-04-2012, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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RE:Stik

I agree sensory issues was my first thought. She is a very sensitive person.
The only solid routine that has never worked is bedtime. Everything else works great for about 6 weeks at most then we have to switch it up
I downloaded a few new books & ordered a title called "manipulative child" that was reccomended by a therapist i know
As far as the soda thing,i scheduled an appointment with her ped who sat her down & explained that sugar is ok for a day treat once in awhile but bad for night time because we cant brush the sugar off our teeth while we are asleep. So since then weve been good. Ive only had soda here from a leftover bbq when people left stuff behind.
I usually dont make solid efforts to buy soda for my fridge.

Good idea about "washing" the car! She would love that! I even have giant sponges she could soap with lol. I will have to give that one a try!

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#12 of 15 Old 08-11-2012, 09:41 PM
 
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I might be way behind and I know I'm no one to give advice, but here is my two cents...

 

I had objects taken. My parents once took everything I owned, literally to the point that all I had was a shirt and some underwear. All I did was learn that items had no value and that they could be gained or lost at any time. It's still hard for me to feel like I actually have rights or ownership to anything. I'm not saying your going to strip your kid of everything like my folks did, but this is just my experience with having things taken.

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#13 of 15 Old 08-12-2012, 08:09 AM
 
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Wow -- what rough patch!!  

 

I don't have time for a good, lengthy reply but I had a few thoughts...

 

First, I think I would start waking her up really early - like 7am. Have you tried that? For my DC that's the only way to adjust her night schedule. Does she do any TV/Media/computer/video game time? I would cut that 100% - not in a punitive sense but because things are going so poorly and that never helps, imo. I would go on a health kick for the entire family.  I would declutter and organize (this is a way to reduce toys and etc. in a way that doesn't feel punitive but more like an action from parents to help improve a less than ideal home life. And, yes, I tend to agree with Stik about possible explanations and firming up boundaries. Do you feel like there's room for improvement there? 

 

ETA: I see that you and your DP have come up with a possible solution. I hope it works -- please post to let us know in case we are tempted to try something similar. I don't think the plan you're trying would work for my DC -- I think she'd (and I) would end up feeling like we were still in this negative, uncooperative cycle. That said, maybe it will work to shake things up enough and then you can springboard from there to DC deciding it's nicer to live without all this. 

 

That got me thinking that maybe another goal down the road would be to help make it clearer to her how much nicer it is when you are all getting along. Maybe she's feeling like she has to "fight" for her perks and has lost sight of how much more pleasant life could be if she would cooperate, yk? 

 

Oh, and one last thing...I think I remember 5/6 as a time where I had a big leap in expectations of my DC. I think there are times where we, as parents, get ahead of what are reasonable expectations. I'm not saying the examples you set are unreasonable...but just this generally higher expectations of impulse control, autonomy over schedule, ability to follow through on chores without help/reminders and etc.  This may not be what's going on but I thought I'd mention it because I've been there for sure. It's hard when every fiber of your being is telling you that you.have.reasonable.expectations.and.you.child.is.being.so.annoying!!!  It's hard then to step back and question that.  

 

Oh, oh!! Another thing that helps me is to break individual issues into their single parts. Part of PET (Parent Effectivness Training) is this idea that it's easier for people to think about changing an individual behavior (like the laundry - that one time) than it is to imagine changing a pattern of behaviors. Besides, talking about ONE thing helps avoid those, "But I don't always do that...I put my laundry away yesterday, bla, bla, bla." 


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#14 of 15 Old 08-12-2012, 08:17 PM
 
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I think there can sometimes be a big difference between appropriate age-level expectations in general and appropriate expectations for your particular child. She sounds a LOT like my DD. Sometimes its better to not listen to what other people say about what children of a certain age should be capable of doing. Obviously she has great strengths in some areas (math, academics, problem-solving) and some weaknesses in others (impulse control, sensitivity to her environment, etc).

 

DD will jump from the couch to the coffee table and put her feet on the table, or she would if I hadn't modified the environment. There is no coffee table in our house anymore, and there is a mini-trampoline and a stretchy swing hanging from the ceiling in our living room. DD rarely tries to jump on the couch anymore. I redirect her to the trampoline or the swing, which are more fun anyway.

 

Maybe your DD is like mine? If she went out to play, hooked up with three kids, and those three kids wanted to come back to our house, DD would have enormous difficulty telling them they can't right now. Its just too much pressure, she wants to have friends and she wants to not disappoint them. I also don't expect to be able to clean any floors during the day when kids are tromping in and out. I might get lucky and get an hour or two, but I don't expect it. I also don't mind vacuuming and sweeping around kids. That's just how it is until she gets a bit older and they can hang out in her room or something while I clean if its really that important to me.

 

DD could not possibly clean her room by herself no matter how motivated. Its just beyond her (she's 7.5). I haven't punished her by purging toys because really, she just can't do it. She can do it if I stand in there with her and provide guidance ("put all the magnatiles in the box. Great! Now spread your bedspread out over your bed and smooth it out. Nice!")

 

Gah... the dog. It took me a few very frustrating months to figure out how to manage dog plus children. Ours just turned 1, so she's still got that crazy puppy behavior. The door is impossible for DD and the kids coming in and out to remember to "watch out the dog doesn't get out!" DD has gotten very good at not letting the dog out, but sometimes gets excited and forgets, and her friends have a much harder time remembering. I installed a spring on the door so that it swings (gently) closed and does not need to be pulled closed. I also put up a fence so when she gets out, she can't run off, and the gate on the fence is the same way - it swings closed by itself. I also regularly keep her on a long leash when the kids are over or the door is being opened frequently, so that if she does get out, its fairly easy to catch her again. In addition, both DD and I practice recalls every night (using tiny pieces of hotdog as reinforcers) to teach the dog to come when called, which helps, but doesn't guarantee she'll come when she's escaped, but at least it improves the chances.

 

DD does not want to go to sleep when other members of the family are up. I don't blame her. I know its a cultural tradition that children are expected to go to bed before the adults so that the adults can have some downtime together, but I chose not to enforce that tradition because its really goes against human beings social and safety needs. So DD and I go to bed at the same time. I read her to sleep, or stroke her hair, or rub her back. In the morning we get up before her, and have time together then.

 

I think you should choose a few things that you feel are really important to work on with her, things that you are certain are within her capabilities (not within the "average" 6-7 year old's ability, but within HERS) and for the rest, modify the environment to meet her needs and to make it as easy as possible on yourself. There's a reason she's bouncing on the furniture and in order to address that need, something needs to be in place that allows her to get that need met at that time (i.e. having had gymnastics earlier in the day doesn't change her need for vestibular motion NOW).

 

Based on what you have written, and not knowing you or her, it looks to me like she is a typical, very bright, sensitive, active child, and there's nothing to be particularly worried about.

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#15 of 15 Old 08-16-2012, 10:48 AM
 
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OP, hugs to you! Your dd sounds like a challenge (of course, all we hear is the bad stuff).

 

I agree with the others about being consistent and setting boundaries. But I think you can involve dd in the process. If you just say "No" to things, even if you add "it's not safe, you could get hurt, it's bad for your teeth", it might seem to her like you are making arbitrary rules.

 

Try asking for her input. She asks for soda after supper. Ask her "Do you think that's a good idea?" (of course she might just say "yes, it's yummy!") Ask her if she remembers what the doctor said about it, and what soda does to her teeth. For jumping on furniture, ask her what the table is for. (again, if she goes for "the table is for jumping!", laugh with her, tell her that's a great silly answer, but you were looking for something different).

 

Same with the door/dog problem. I'm guessing she doesn't want to lose the dog. Would a picture of the dog next to the doorknob help her remember that the dog escapes if she opens the door?

 

Ask for her input on solving some of these problems. Tell her that you can't think of any ideas for keeping her from jumping on the furniture. Brainstorm together some ideas, including the ones you've already used, like sending her outside to run and jump. Include silly ones, like moving all the furniture into the garage. See what she comes up with.

 

I know this doesn't apply to your specific situation, but I want to tell you a story about my twin sons. They would complain occasionally about their bed time: "But our friends get to stay up later than we do!" I explained that bedtime wasn't arbitrary - it was determined by how much sleep they needed. I told them that if they could get up every day for school without being awakened or using an alarm, than they were obviously getting enough sleep, and could stay up later. If I had to drag them out of bed every morning, they needed that much sleep - or more, and perhaps bedtime should be earlier. It took a long time (probably a few of years!) before they stopped asking for a later bedtime. Once they got to middle school, they not only went to bed at a reasonable time on their own, but they did so on weekends as well - they had learned that Monday mornings are really hard if you've stayed up late on Friday and Saturday. They didn't do it because it was my rule, but because it made sense.

 

The advantage to setting rules that are based on that kind of logic is that eventually the child realizes that most of your rules are based on some sort of logical reason, and they learn to trust you.

 

Good luck, OP, and hang in there! I applaud you for trying new things with your daughter, and I hope you find a set of tools that works for all of you.

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