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#121 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 05:06 AM
 
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I believe this, too. I have seen some posts stating that they respect their child(ren) too much to spank them but I respect my child too much to not make sure that she knows that things have consequences and that some things are not safe. We are rural and homestead and farm and unschool and if I didn't make sure she understood that when I say not to go play with a certain piece of equipment or play in a certain area or not to eat or drink something that it is not a joke. These aren't just rules because it is my house, it is for her safety. Children need to have lots of time to explore without mom holding their hand and they need to do it safely. I also think that a consequence that is given for the reason of teaching, that is given out by a fair and loving parent is going to be way better than what life is going to give them for consequences. I am not just talking about a consequence as just spanking, but I do use that as a last resort. In my experience when spanking is used only as a last resort, as the child grows there will be less and less spanking because they are going to listen to what you say first and it won't go any further than that. 

 

I agree with whoever it was that said that not disciplining is also abuse, as well.

 

thanks. was going to leave. not because someone told me too but because of stress it caused. left FB for reasons similair. wont now. thanks
 


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#122 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 05:10 AM
 
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And yes I'm not one to spank at every turn.for everything they do wrong.I like both attachment parenting and positive parenting. I do Positive parenting and add in babywearing. She loves it at 2 months, no she has been spanked yet to young, she did yell when dad had her yesterday loudly so I heard her at othert end of house. mom mom mom. yes at 2 months. DH heard it to. very distict


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#123 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 05:26 AM
 
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For me, it was a way of establishing a very strong boundary that words and gentleness did not get across.

I agree that this is an important thing to be able to convey to most kids - it certainly has been over the years for my 10 year old. Two things - it is possible to convey this without spanking. For my oldest, we "got down to basics". We cleaned house (both literally and metaphorically). We simplified, reduced activities & stress, got our routine down, eliminated "junk". Second, I'm not sure how old your children are but at some point hitting becomes inappropriate (even if one thinks it's OK). This is when kids are older, in their teens. This is also the time in their life where they are at most risk (statistically) of hurting themselves and it's also the time that I hear it's the most challenging to "control" them. As parents, we do not want to find that the method of discipline we've been using to set strong boundaries is no longer available to us. 

 

I hope reading this long threat has maybe helped me... maybe unconsciously I have approved a slap and that is why it has come out. Maybe a deep thinking process to prepare myself for the next super stressed day, or chanting  "I do not hit" as if I was a 2 year old.... maybe I need that, or do I need a psychiatrist before my child is emotionally scarred from my impulses?

I do think this comes down to a lot of self-care. The end of the day is really hard for me too. Over the years at MDC, I've seen a lot of threads about helping a parent with impulsive spanking. I would hope that you would find a lot of support and compassion for what you're going through. hug2.gif

 

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thanks. was going to leave. not because someone told me too but because of stress it caused. left FB for reasons similair. wont now. thanks
 

Part of why I like to post on some of these threads is because I find them great practice for GD!!  I'll admit that I can get snarky or overly sensitive but I think it's helpful for me to practice keeping cool and maintaining perspective. I would use a thread like this as a barometer for how my general level of stress is. Like someone up thread alluded to, as disciplinarians we need to be able to put a discussion about discipline in perspective. Just as we need to put our child's behavior issues in perspective in order to effectively discipline. Nevertheless, hugs to you too for feeling stressed. 


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#124 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 05:30 AM
 
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And yes I'm not one to spank at every turn.for everything they do wrong.I like both attachment parenting and positive parenting. I do Positive parenting and add in babywearing. She loves it at 2 months, no she has been spanked yet to young, she did yell when dad had her yesterday loudly so I heard her at othert end of house. mom mom mom. yes at 2 months. DH heard it to. very distict

I don't know what this means. Would you like to elaborate so maybe we can help? If you child is 2 months old, you have many, many months (like at least 8-10) before you are doing any sort of behavior stuff. Before that it's 100% about meeting her needs and adequate supervision. Do you have a good book about child development at home? Maybe from the library? 

 

ETA: We have two, perhaps three parents of fairly young children saying that for now they think spanking is likely to be in their future. To this, I have given a lot of though this AM. What I want to say is that you should give yourself and your child the chance at higher expectations. I think you are all spiritual people so let me elaborate...

 

There is something held in our expectations of ourselves and our children that we tend to live up to. It is put out there in a subtle, subconscious way. You will read often on MDC that we live up or down to the expectations put upon us. I believe this to be true and I have seen it put to the test in my own child. I think that if you expect your child to be a generally well behaved, happy, pleasant child -- they may well be. If you expect that you yourself will be an effective, respected and gentle disciplinarian, you may well be. It may not happen that way but I think the chances of it going in that direction are much greater if you start with that expectation. 


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#125 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 05:39 AM
 
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I am totally against spanking and I have never used it as a form of discipline, but I have slapped my older child two or three times in a totally impulsive way, where I had no time to think before I did it! It was not discipline, and I never told my child that I did it because you were bad, or because I love you and I have to... I was terrified by what I did and apologized my child, I wanted to make sure right away that what mommy did was totally wrong and I hope he can forgive me. It was horrible thing to hear a little boy crying and saying, it sure isn't easy to forgive. I hugged and hugged and I would beg for forgiveness and beg for God to make sure he wont remember it when he grows up.

Unfortunately it happened again. Another super tired night, putting kids to sleep alone as always, them testing your patience, then getting a kick in the face from the kid (he did it by accident although as a result of acting out) and totally impulsively I slap back!! it's horrible to see yourself repeat something you are so against.

So I don't need help to find other ways to discipline, because I have my other ways that work well, my kids are not bad at all, they have their freedoms, they know when I'm serious, and they respect me without being afraid of me. Thank goodness the few times I have slapped have not caused them to be afraid of me, or mistrusting of me.  I think I have made it clear that I am so sorry. But I still worry about the emotional harm that can do!! I sure would not want anyone in the world hitting my son, and I don't want him to accept it from anyone. So how do I stop myself next time?

 

I empathize with you. I think it's safe to assume most moms spanked or came very close to spanking (a slap on the bum qualifies as spanking) at least once in their life with little kids. I know some who didn't, but they have a very strong support system.

 

It will get better in time. With older kids is easier to reason. Also, what helps me in the heat of the moment is to start singing (ABC song or something silly, and I can sing as loud as I want without screaming at them); the best part is that after a moment of confusion the misbehaving kid joins in. It helps us reconnect.


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#126 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 06:32 AM
 
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What helped when I was younger and the kids were really acting up was to call someone and vent.  I usually called my husband (yes, he was at work).  I did feel some guilt around calling DH at work to vent, but calling DH and venting really helped me to return to parenting in a more rationale state.  He was a great person to call because I could be honest and he did not offer much advice or turn it into his own sob story.

 

Find someone you can call in the heat of the moment who will listen and knows when to advise and when to just listen.  Sometimes you have to ask for what you want  - "can I just vent?"  so the person is clued in you just want to vent 


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#127 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 11:09 AM
 
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This discussion is fascinating and very informative.  Thanks, moms!


My husband and I were both raised with spankings.  My husband would always say, "and we still turned out well!"  And I agreed with him for a long time... but once I started really analyzing it, I have always been a fearful, insecure person who had a hard time making decisions my parents didn't completely approve of.  Even now at age 37.

 

My first son is mildly autistic and a very difficult child.  He never slept more than a couple hours at a time til he hit age 5.  Everything was (and is) a battle.  When his younger brother was born with colic, I literally stopped sleeping.  Really, I should have been hospitalized, my life was a nightmare.  I found myself spanking more and more.  I blamed it on Thomas' difficult behaviors, but really it was me.  I needed help, and didn't know where to get it from.

 

Thomas has issues with physically striking out.  Still.  And one day I looked at him and thought: how can I tell him this is wrong if I've been doing it myself?  How is he supposed to differentiate that??

 

I never spanked him again.

 

He will continue to be a hard kid to parent.  But I will continue to try different ways to raise him, reading books, and yes, getting more help now.  We both have a long way to healing, but stopping spanking is something I'll never regret.  I have apologized to him, and am learning to forgive myself.  I hope when he is a man he will have a more loving and trusting relationship with me than I do with my own parents.  A long journey, but one I am dedicated to traveling.


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#128 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 01:53 PM
 
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I don't know what this means. Would you like to elaborate so maybe we can help? If you child is 2 months old, you have many, many months (like at least 8-10) before you are doing any sort of behavior stuff. Before that it's 100% about meeting her needs and adequate supervision. Do you have a good book about child development at home? Maybe from the library? 

 

ETA: We have two, perhaps three parents of fairly young children saying that for now they think spanking is likely to be in their future. To this, I have given a lot of though this AM. What I want to say is that you should give yourself and your child the chance at higher expectations. I think you are all spiritual people so let me elaborate...

 

There is something held in our expectations of ourselves and our children that we tend to live up to. It is put out there in a subtle, subconscious way. You will read often on MDC that we live up or down to the expectations put upon us. I believe this to be true and I have seen it put to the test in my own child. I think that if you expect your child to be a generally well behaved, happy, pleasant child -- they may well be. If you expect that you yourself will be an effective, respected and gentle disciplinarian, you may well be. It may not happen that way but I think the chances of it going in that direction are much greater if you start with that expectation. 

IdentityCrisisMama:  I think you're doing a good job here and I hand over my particular reigns to you.  I tend to get too "passionate" about certain issues and often it is hard for me to articulate properly.  Thanks for your input and I look forward to reading more!


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#129 of 176 Old 08-11-2012, 02:23 PM
 
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IdentityCrisisMama:  I think you're doing a good job here and I hand over my particular reigns to you.  I tend to get too "passionate" about certain issues and often it is hard for me to articulate properly.  Thanks for your input and I look forward to reading more!

Oh, no!!  I strive to be such a beautiful writer as you -- stay!  I get passionate about this issue too, perhaps more than any other parenting issue.  


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#130 of 176 Old 08-14-2012, 03:38 PM
 
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I would like to see this tread go back to how it started, honesty, openness, helping others find better ways to discipline.... I hung through and read it all, although some of the annoying back and forth arguing I skipped. I hung here because I wanted to post my own, but now I feel less interested in it, because of the nasty tone this thread has developed... But I'll try.

I have my own question, slightly different...

I am totally against spanking and I have never used it as a form of discipline, but I have slapped my older child two or three times in a totally impulsive way, where I had no time to think before I did it! It was not discipline, and I never told my child that I did it because you were bad, or because I love you and I have to... I was terrified by what I did and apologized my child, I wanted to make sure right away that what mommy did was totally wrong and I hope he can forgive me. It was horrible thing to hear a little boy crying and saying, it sure isn't easy to forgive. I hugged and hugged and I would beg for forgiveness and beg for God to make sure he wont remember it when he grows up.

Unfortunately it happened again. Another super tired night, putting kids to sleep alone as always, them testing your patience, then getting a kick in the face from the kid (he did it by accident although as a result of acting out) and totally impulsively I slap back!! it's horrible to see yourself repeat something you are so against.

So I don't need help to find other ways to discipline, because I have my other ways that work well, my kids are not bad at all, they have their freedoms, they know when I'm serious, and they respect me without being afraid of me. Thank goodness the few times I have slapped have not caused them to be afraid of me, or mistrusting of me.  I think I have made it clear that I am so sorry. But I still worry about the emotional harm that can do!! I sure would not want anyone in the world hitting my son, and I don't want him to accept it from anyone. So how do I stop myself next time?

The advice to walk away when you are angry etc I use aready. When I loose my temper, get mad about something, it's easy for me to breathe in and change the tone, and go on with a more constructive way. But the times I have slapped have been soo fast, I haven't had time to make a better choice!

I'm guessing I should do something in advance.... Advices have come up to the OP that I could use for myself and might help, like take care of myself and make sure I'm not too stressed and tired and taking it out on my kids. I'm not a single mom, but my husband works around the clock, so in my everyday life I am... I just don't have to also financially support our life.

I hope reading this long threat has maybe helped me... maybe unconsciously I have approved a slap and that is why it has come out. Maybe a deep thinking process to prepare myself for the next super stressed day, or chanting  "I do not hit" as if I was a 2 year old.... maybe I need that, or do I need a psychiatrist before my child is emotionally scarred from my impulses?

 

Be gentle on yourself. It's a process and takes time. If you react impulsively, it means you experienced this yourself as a child and got hardwired to repeat the behavior. It would be good to be able to talk to someone about this, but easier said than done. Maybe you can talk it out with an old friend.

 

Read books about it, Immerse yourself in new information. I don't think you have unconsciously approved the slap. And, what's important is that you have responded so quickly to apologize. 

 

I found it helpful to post a list of alternatives to spanking on the refrigerator and, like you, felt I had to come back to them again and again. How you stop yourself next time is to keep doing what you're doing, starting over, reflecting, getting help. We model authenticity to our children, not perfection.

 

Good luck!

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#131 of 176 Old 08-14-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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I used to be for spanking - I was spanked growing up and used to say I turned out fine.  And mostly I did.  My parents are good people who wanted to discipline us in the best way they could.  But as I got older and found myself in positions where I was "supposed" to be in control, I realized that, as calm and gentle of a person as I usually am, when I'm at the end of my rope with anger/frustration/hurt/being overwhelmed, my first impulse is to strike out and hurt someone.  I've realized that one can't treat someone violently and expect them to turn out non-violent.

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#132 of 176 Old 08-15-2012, 07:15 AM
 
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I used to be for spanking - I was spanked growing up and used to say I turned out fine.  And mostly I did.  My parents are good people who wanted to discipline us in the best way they could.  But as I got older and found myself in positions where I was "supposed" to be in control, I realized that, as calm and gentle of a person as I usually am, when I'm at the end of my rope with anger/frustration/hurt/being overwhelmed, my first impulse is to strike out and hurt someone.  I've realized that one can't treat someone violently and expect them to turn out non-violent.

 

 

Here's something weird, for me:   My parents used Gentle Discipline my entire life.  And still, I have rage issues/have had to really work to control my urge to whack the kids sometimes, especially around the 3/4/5 agespan.  It was not something I ever thought possible of myself, and yet it is there.  I do not like it one single bit and can't help but feel a mixture of shame and WTF.  Sooo, even if you raise a child completely nonviolently (not only did my parents not hit me, they also really didn't yell at all - I distinctly remember the first time I heard one of my parent shout/curse - I was SIXTEEN, and completely taken aback), it doesn't mean they might not still struggle with those issues at some point.  Sigh.    I guess I'm really glad they *were* so gentle and I didn't have the rage/aggression modeled, or I probably *would* have been a spanking parent.  


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#133 of 176 Old 08-16-2012, 10:37 AM
 
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I thought I'd chime in here, for what it's worth...

I am 28 and was raised by both my mom and step-dad to believe that spanking is wrong and unnecessary.  In our family home we always resolved our issues by sitting at the table together and having a conversation.  Once I reached my rebellious teen years, the relationship I had with my step-dad changed dramatically (he is my step-dad, but he is my father. He has been the only father I have ever known).  He felt out of control because I no longer did exactly what he wanted to, and I don't think I would have been as comfortable speaking my mind and going through that rebellious stage if I had a history of him spanking... I was afraid enough of the way he would yell and raise his voice almost constantly, that if he had added spanking into the mix, there is no way we would have had any kind of trusting relationship. 

 

Now at 28 we have a great relationship, and he has a wonderful relationship with my son too.   I learned a lot from my parents.. things to avoid and things to do differently, but one of the things I took most for granted was that we don't ever spank, and that there is always a different way to deal with situations with our kids. 

 

Just my two cents!


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#134 of 176 Old 08-16-2012, 11:20 AM
 
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I agree with the last two posters. There are others things to do instead of spanking. And, rage and anger are the real challenges behind the actions. Anger happens quickly and goes away quickly. It's like a spark. Rage is about unfinished business from the past.

 

Thich Nhat Hahn says to hold our anger like a baby, to hold it over our shoulder and pat its back. We are often so afraid of our anger--afraid that we're bad for feeling it--that we feel guilty. But, anger is just an emotion. It is not who we are.

 

 

“Anger is like a howling baby, suffering and crying.
Your anger is your baby. The baby needs his mother
to embrace him. You are the mother.
Embrace your baby.”

Thich Nhat Hahn

This is from Ten Verses to Tame Anger.

It's all about self-knowledge and self-forgiveness and mindfulness. And, ultimately, what our children learn from us is not how to be perfect, but how to be authentic. That is, how do we get up and start over when we've made a mess of things or when things have fallen apart on their own. 

We are not responsible for everything that happens, but we can be responsible for our response. And, we can be gentle on ourselves at the same time that we hold the line on physical punishment and verbal abuse. It's a process of learning to be more of the person we want to be. It lasts a lifetime.

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#135 of 176 Old 08-21-2012, 05:57 AM
 
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Personally, I dont agree with spanking unless its necessary, example I see my child doing someting that could kill her, if i have warned her about it from before, Next I was spanked , not spaked abused by my stepfather for being an old child, It does nothing but leave scars, making the child hate the parent and them not learning anything, and I think it actually teaching them to hit others. I dont know i seem some kids that are spanked that are behaved and other that it dosent work.

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#136 of 176 Old 08-21-2012, 04:50 PM
 
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I agree that this is an important thing to be able to convey to most kids - it certainly has been over the years for my 10 year old. Two things - it is possible to convey this without spanking. For my oldest, we "got down to basics". We cleaned house (both literally and metaphorically). We simplified, reduced activities & stress, got our routine down, eliminated "junk". Second, I'm not sure how old your children are but at some point hitting becomes inappropriate (even if one thinks it's OK). This is when kids are older, in their teens. This is also the time in their life where they are at most risk (statistically) of hurting themselves and it's also the time that I hear it's the most challenging to "control" them. As parents, we do not want to find that the method of discipline we've been using to set strong boundaries is no longer available to us. 

 

I agree with you, and I'd like to stress the point that spanking is one of many forms of communication and discipline. I've used it only a few times in the 7 years that I've parented two children through extremely stressful times with no family support. So, I have a big bag full of lots of tricks. Yes, there are lots of ways to convey a message about boundaries to a child as well as to adults, but some people in some situations will only respond to force. You have to know yourself and the person you are dealing with to be effective without causing harm.

 

I love the references to Buddhist philosophy, but even Buddhist have a place for forceful communication. Shambhala teaches that you may have to strike a person to stop them from doing something unloving. It's not compassionate to allow a person to continue to treat you with disrespect, and in those times when you have to be forceful, you need to be mindful of your reaction and the consequences that follow.

 

I don't believe that you can control anyone, not even a small child, so for me, spanking my son was not about getting him to do what I wanted him to do. It was about letting him know that I absolutely would not tolerate being talked to with disrespect or tolerate his wild tantrums in public when he did not get his way.  I've learned that we have to continue to set boundaries throughout your lives, with all people. And in my many different roles, I deal with many different people, some of who care about others and some who do not. I deal with them accordingly, as lovingly as possible.

 

One thing I don't like about MDC is that it feels like we are all these wounded children trying not to wound our own children. These kinds of threads foster that notion as people gather to talk about how their parents affected them. Can we stop blaming our current reactions on our parents' behavior? At some point we become creations of our own will. Can we be "OK" and let that be enough? All things exist for a reason and there is a time and a place for everything. People here (including me) can't tell you the right thing to do. We will only confuse each other with our references to painful pasts. Go inside yourself, meditate, pray, and ask for wisdom. The truth will come, and you will become closer to your children by becoming closer to yourself.

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#137 of 176 Old 08-21-2012, 06:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mowilli3 View Post

I agree with you, and I'd like to stress the point that spanking is one of many forms of communication and discipline. I've used it only a few times in the 7 years that I've parented two children through extremely stressful times with no family support. So, I have a big bag full of lots of tricks. Yes, there are lots of ways to convey a message about boundaries to a child as well as to adults, but some people in some situations will only respond to force. You have to know yourself and the person you are dealing with to be effective without causing harm.

 

I love the references to Buddhist philosophy, but even Buddhist have a place for forceful communication. Shambhala teaches that you may have to strike a person to stop them from doing something unloving. It's not compassionate to allow a person to continue to treat you with disrespect, and in those times when you have to be forceful, you need to be mindful of your reaction and the consequences that follow.

 

I don't believe that you can control anyone, not even a small child, so for me, spanking my son was not about getting him to do what I wanted him to do. It was about letting him know that I absolutely would not tolerate being talked to with disrespect or tolerate his wild tantrums in public when he did not get his way.  I've learned that we have to continue to set boundaries throughout your lives, with all people. And in my many different roles, I deal with many different people, some of who care about others and some who do not. I deal with them accordingly, as lovingly as possible.

 

One thing I don't like about MDC is that it feels like we are all these wounded children trying not to wound our own children. These kinds of threads foster that notion as people gather to talk about how their parents affected them. Can we stop blaming our current reactions on our parents' behavior? At some point we become creations of our own will. Can we be "OK" and let that be enough? All things exist for a reason and there is a time and a place for everything. People here (including me) can't tell you the right thing to do. We will only confuse each other with our references to painful pasts. Go inside yourself, meditate, pray, and ask for wisdom. The truth will come, and you will become closer to your children by becoming closer to yourself.

I say this all gently and based on my own moral underbelly:  

 

The first bolded part:  "I don't believe you can control anyone...so for me, spanking my son was not about getting to do what I wanted him to do...It was about letting him know that I absolutely would not tolerate being talked to with disrespect or tolerate..."  

 

My honest question is this:  why is that not about control?  I see the point you are trying to make that it is about "teaching."  But, ultimately it is about control in my opinion.  "You don't do what I say and [respect me for that matter]..." (see what I mean...it is both about what you require).  Physical punishment is physical punishment...there are no grey areas in my opinion.  It's still control, no matter what way you spin it.  Spanking is a form of punishment to get the person do what you want them to do.  I believe in consequences.  I just don't believe that you have to hit in order to achieve those consequences.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and I know I'll be flamed, but torture is a way to get people to say what you want them to say.  Fear of pain produces results because people are afraid of pain.  People subject to torture don't "confess" because it is the right thing to do or that it is even true.  They confess because they want to avoid pain, shame, humiliation.  They confess because they are afraid, not because what they say is true or has any basis in truth.  Falsehoods are better than truth because falsehoods stop the pain.  That is the underlying problem with torture and many people and organizations recognize that pain produces little to zero results.  

 

Second bolded part:  "Can we stop blaming our current reactions on our parents' behavior?"

 

Short answer:  no one is blaming their parents, but we can learn from our parents' mistakes.  Long answer:  I learn and have learned from what history has taught us, including what I learned to be inappropriate methods used by my parents, schlock science and psychoanalysis, marketing and religious stuff that I don't subscribe to anymore.  It's not about blame, it's about growth and learning and finding one's way and coming to an understanding that just because it was good in the "old days" doesn't mean that it is right  or applicable now (I don't care if it is a 1000-year-old Buddhist philosophy or if it is being proposed by the main stream media).  The tired old argument is "my parents did it and I'm not messed up and therefore it must work" is just that...tired.  Just because people used to think certain things worked doesn't mean anything given what we know now.  I could say that about the mugging and assaults where I was physically held down by the neck which I experienced not on one, but on two occasions.  I could say that I'm happy now (after those assaults) and a normal person and I learned my lesson not to make stupid decisions to walk around at midnight and that now I'm more aware because of the assault...more apt to make the right decision because someone slapped me down.  I didn't have to go to the hospital and there were no physical signs of my assault, but someone exerted physical power of me and let me know that they were the "boss."  I didn't want to suffer more.  Why?  Because I'm a biological being and biological beings recoil from pain and humiliation.  Sorry to be harsh but I can't seem to differentiate the two physical acts of spanking vs. act of pushing my neck against a wall to bring me into submission, so to speak.  And, now that I think about it, submission is the key word here.  To be frank, I resent my parents for spanking and I resent my assaulters for pushing me against a wall by the neck because both intruded on my physical person and both did so in order for me to comply.  Neither of these scenarios were teachable moments in the broader sense.  Sure, they taught me to be afraid, but that's about it.  Compliance was the only option.  Compliance was the only thing I learned.  I find that rather disturbing.

 

Sorry, I said earlier up-thread that I wouldn't respond anymore in this thread, but I feel compelled because I feel so strongly about this issue.  Again, I've experienced physical invasion of my person both as a child and as an adult.  Both are on the same plain.  Both involve getting to me to comply (no matter what the person's subjective intent).  Both made me very angry and although I learned to live with the concept that the people were doing it because of what was "due to me" for my various actions, I think both were wrong, despite one person's intent to get me to "do the right thing" and others' intent to get me to hand over my valuables.  I have no problem with announcing that I think what my parents did was wrong, and I can move on by acknowledging that I will not repeat what they did.  The best way for me to protest, in my opinion, is to reject their methods (loudly if I have to) and not repeat.  

 

Edited to say that I'm sorry I get so emotional about this.  It's one of those things that really gets me riled up. LOL.  I appreciate everyone else's very moderate approach to this subject.  I wish I had more self control.  kid.gif

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#138 of 176 Old 08-21-2012, 09:36 PM
 
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I agree that we should stop using the argument "my parents spanked me and I turned out fine." So what? My parents never spanked me and I turned out fine, too. It's not really relevant.

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#139 of 176 Old 08-22-2012, 02:08 AM
 
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Thank you Peggy and others for the great answers. I was also surprised to read from The4OfUs, who said her parents used gentle discipline on her and she still really has to control her urge. 

See, my parents never spanked us, I tried to remember if it had ever happened, but picturing my mom hitting me was absurd. I watched a cousin get slapped for just existing and always felt really terrible at their house... When I once hit my sister, my mom asked my sister to do the same to me, but my sister couldn't. Oh my I will never forget how ashamed I was that day, she could not be as bad as me, even with moms permission. So I guess I was impulsive and violent already then and this experience haunting me has made me think of myself as a violent person? 

I was physically assaulted in college, with sexual intentions and for a while I wanted to carry a bat with me and hit any man who dared to look at me... But it's hard for me to think that this experience would make me impulsive around my kids. On the contrary, I should be impulsed to protect them from any harm!!

But anyways, I think Peggy's responses will help me out, and I've done a lot of thinking and haven't had the impulse lately... not that it ever happened that often... but hopefully I can trust myself that I am on a path to be better. 

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#140 of 176 Old 08-22-2012, 01:23 PM
 
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It's easier for me now as an older person to look back and see the process. I thought as a younger person that as soon as I thought of something, I should be able to implement it. Now I know that change doesn't happen that way. We have to think about making a change for a while, make the change and then it takes time to implement the change. They say that the best indicator of being able to change is the ability to start over. Think of the person who quits smoking. If they give up when they mess up and have a cigarette they will just go back to smoking again and feel like a failure. But, the key is to let go of the self blame and just get back focused on the goal, to start over. We have to do that with our kids all the time.

 

For me, learning gentle discipline was/is like learning a new language. I had reminders on my refrigerator, read a bunch of books, had the privilege of being able to interview great thinkers. It really helped to immerse myself in the new way of thinking about children so I could have a model to follow.

 

Here are some books that I found helpful when I was a young parent:

Summerhill: A Radical Approach to Child Rearing

The Magic Years: Understanding and Handling the Problems of Early Childhood

The Child Under Six

Between Parent and Child

Liberated Parents, Liberated Children: Your Guide to a Happier Family

How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Can Talk.

 

What books have you all found helpful to learn new ways of gentle discipline?

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#141 of 176 Old 08-22-2012, 04:56 PM
 
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what has really helped me with GD has actually NOT been reading gentle discipline books. i mean yeah i read them, it made sense, but when i was actually facing a situation IRL all what i read went out the window.

 

what truly helped me was reading the series by Louis Ames Bates. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Two-Year-Old-Louise-Bates-Ames/dp/0440506387

 

i had to understand what my child was going therough. i had to see my child differently. its a way of seeing that was never shown to me before. society assumes you understand that. like for instance when dd was a new one year old i realized i was getting angry with her because i was taking her actions personally. duh! you would expect me get it that she is young and she is just being herself. but no i had been always used to being pushed for a personal reason. 

 

just understanding that really changed my life. i read those books religiously from babyhood to age 4. because it helped me gain compassion towards my child. instead of getting angry i would be so empathec. poor thing she is so emotional. in fact sometimes i would be laughing because she was so ridiculous. how can a one year old have so mauch anger that she would be flat out on hte street screaming.

 

i also learnt the 3 golden rule - rest, exercise and full belly. 

 

to me understanding children is what helped me on my road to GD. 

 

however having a v. hormonal almost 10 year old i am being challenged again. not that i am going to spank my child but i discover i am 'spanking' my child whtough words. silence and empathy is still VERY important. more actually than less. 


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#142 of 176 Old 08-23-2012, 05:36 AM
 
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Quote:

however having a v. hormonal almost 10 year old i am being challenged again. not that i am going to spank my child but i discover i am 'spanking' my child whtough words. silence and empathy is still VERY important. more actually than less. 

You too?  I'm off to my DC's school orientation where they always give us a copy of a chapter from the child development book the school uses. I'll post here when I get back with the name of the book. 

 

For books we loved: 

 

  • Becoming the Parent You Want to Be 
  • Unconditional Parenting 
  • Taking Children Seriously 
  • A good child development text book 

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#143 of 176 Old 08-28-2012, 01:01 AM
 
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For another fantastic book, Self Esteem: A Family Affair by Jean Illsley Clarke

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#144 of 176 Old 08-28-2012, 08:42 AM
 
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My all-time favourite is "Kids Are Worth It!" by Barbara Coloroso.

 

Also, I just finished "Parenting without Power Struggles", which I found useful.
 


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#145 of 176 Old 08-31-2012, 04:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by meemee View Post

 

what truly helped me was reading the series by Louis Ames Bates. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Two-Year-Old-Louise-Bates-Ames/dp/0440506387

 

i also learnt the 3 golden rule - rest, exercise and full belly. 

 

to me understanding children is what helped me on my road to GD. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the Bates suggestion.

And, thanks for the 3 golden rule. So true! Most problems with kids are because of low blood sugar or being tired. Us too!

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#146 of 176 Old 09-03-2012, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LexiDrewMama View Post

I was raised by a mother who spanked me quite often.  I never learned anything from those spankings, but I did fear her.  A child should never fear a parent.  I have always felt that raising a child with respect and kindness teaches respect and kindness.  Violence teaches violence.  Once I was grown and my mother and I had developed a working relationship we were able to talk about the spanking and she regrets it... I don't want that for me or for my daughter.

 

I was spanked just a few times by my dad and I feared doing things that might make him upset at me. And thank heavens too, it kept me on the straight and narrow through my teenage years and I LOVE my father for all he is worth now. Just because a parent spanks doesn't mean the kid turns out bad or hates the parent, just wanted to mention that.

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#147 of 176 Old 09-06-2012, 10:39 AM
 
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I know I might get in trouble again but I have a boy that called his mother 4 letter words and showed the finger when he was about 10 years old. We had him in therapy and the therapist told us that spanking might work. But it has to be done the right way. Before somebody yells at me again for child abuse I must say that after one year it was the one and only spanking I gave him and since them I have not heard any more f or b words. For him it worked and I am so happy I did it. But as I said it has to be done with love. I do not want to promote violence toward children at all. If you are interested e-mail me and I am happy to communicate with you.

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#148 of 176 Old 09-06-2012, 11:19 AM
 
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... one and only spanking I gave him... For him it worked and I am so happy I did it. But as I said it has to be done with love. I do not want to promote violence toward children at all. If you are interested e-mail me and I am happy to communicate with you.

Bolding mine.

 

What is spanking if not violence?

 

I'm glad that it seemed to work out with this child, and for now only needed to be done once. However, there are many other tactics that can be used with children that do not involve ANY violence. What will you do if he resumes the behavior at 14 or 16?


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#149 of 176 Old 09-06-2012, 11:37 AM
 
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i agree with PP. 

 

to me spanking is violence (please forgive me if i come off as high handed. this is a v. trigger issue for me).

 

not only because i think so. but because it completely HORRIFIES dd.

 

the thing is well if its ok to spank even once (which i did once in reflex mode and still find it hard to forgive myself) then should not our children have the same right? why is their need less important than us. why cant they hit us for not complying and so why should we complain if they hit us. 

 

i have been hit in a loving way. doesnt matter if it was in a loving way. i was still hit. hitting is hitting. at each moment it broke my heart that my dad would raise his hand to someone he called the apple of his eye. i could not get that. 

 

i could NEVER EVER think of hitting dd. to me that is a failure in my books. i discovered there was no reason to do that. i talked. i explained. i said how what dd did affected me. i explained society norms. i diverted, distracted and taught her how a stove was hot so dangerous, what a soft touch on the cat meant instead of hitting a cat. how running in teh street would break your body and mama and dadddy would cry and cry and cry and life would never be the same again. sometimes dd wouldnt understand my words. that meant she didnt have to do what i say. it meant she still needed supervision in that area. 

 

at 10 which is what my dd is now, i would NEVER EVER think of EVER raising my finger on her. i wouldnt even think of it. i would see the word and gesture as a sign of extreme frustration and anger and work on how to help her deal with those feelings. thinking about my experience not repeating it has everything to do with fear, never love and i NEVER EVER want my dd to fear me. which she doesnt. 

 

to me if dd is ever afraid of me - that would be total failure in my books. 


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#150 of 176 Old 09-06-2012, 02:28 PM
 
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It can seem that because something turns out OK, it was justified, but the end does not justify the means. And, while we obviously can love even those who abuse us, hitting another person is abuse. It is called abuse when someone feels entitled to power or control over another. 

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