What do You Allow? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
Peony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 15,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
MY dd is a regular active 16 month old toddler. I don't say "no" to her, I feel that is too vague. I tell her " don't touch the plant" or something to that effect. I consider her just to be a curious toddler, into everything, I allow her to explore most things unless they are dangerous or if she is pulling the poor plant out of it's pot, those sorts of things. She is free to rearrange our book shelve, movie collection, and etc... I've had several family members comment to DH about our "lack" of discipline, which I just brush off, but it got me curious about how others feel about it.

There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.
Peony is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 03:42 PM
 
lilmiss'mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: where the sun almost always shines
Posts: 1,559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Scarlett is 18 months. She can rearrange books or whatever as long as it isn't breakable. And the stuff at her level isn't breakable, so yes the plants are a no no, but pretty much everything else is fair game. They see us picking things up and they want to also. It isn't about them being naughty; it is just exploration.

Mama to DD#1 2001 reading.gif, DD#2 2002 2whistle.gif, dog2.gif, & cat.gif. Me & my man partners.gifbelly.gif June 2014.
lilmiss'mama is offline  
#3 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 03:43 PM
 
vlwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What we do sounds very similar to your situation. DD is 12 months. Breakables and things we feel strongly about her not messing with are kept out of reach or in off-limits areas like the spare bedroom. For the most part, though, we've decided that it isn't going to hurt anything if she pulls videos/CDs off the shelves. In her room, the more "indestructible" board books are kept on the shelves she can reach. Books with paper pages are higher up. Unpacking her bookshelves is a near-daily occurrence, and I got tired of having to grab the paper books out of her hands. Now she plays merrily with her books whenever she wants. And at the end of the day, they go back on the shelves.

That said, at other people's houses, the expectations are different. DD and I have spent month-long visits with my parents while DH was away for work, and she is not allowed to unpack their CDs, for instance. They keep the CDs in a room with a ceramic tile floor, and I didn't want DD to crack all the cases. Plus, my Mom alphabetizes her CDs. We just redirected DD when she headed for the CDs. I'm lucky, I guess, in that my Mom has never once criticized my parenting--and also that their house is fairly well baby-proofed!
vlwc is offline  
#4 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 03:52 PM
 
WonderWild's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Procrastination Heaven
Posts: 1,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I allow a lot. As long as it's not going to hurt him, he's allowed to explore it. I put away all my breakable things when he started moving. And I don't like plants so we don't have to worry about those.
WonderWild is offline  
#5 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 05:13 PM
 
Colorful~Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 2,064
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
my son is 10mos and he explores. our house is extremely child friendly (i do a bit of home daycare) and theres not much he can't touch. There are a few drawers and cabinets with childproof locks due to chemicals, my dyes for my wahbiz etc. If it won't hurt him he can t ouch it. I agree that its about exploration. Same goes for my 4yo.

i also agree that at other peoples houses i try to redirect my kids away from exploring other peoples belongings, rearranging etc and into the toys we've brought , coloring books, food etc. I try not to say 'no' but i do say 'please don't touch uncle davids books - they're not for us. lets read our books instead'. that kind of thing

i think theres a fine line between allowing children to explore and allowing them to destroy other peoples property
Colorful~Mama is offline  
#6 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 06:40 PM
 
LoveBeads's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know that this is just semantics but I once read something that I found incredibly valuable and I wanted to share it.

What you focus on, you get more of (bad grammar, I know)

In other words, "don't touch the plant" focuses on touching the plant. If you say, "let's touch the coffee table" it focuses the child away from the plant and over to the coffee table (or whatever object they are allowed to touch). "Don't hit" focuses on hitting. Saying, "let's touch mommy gently" focuses on gentle touches.

Of course, I have to admit that I have been very guilty of the occasional "Don't whine!" instead of using my usual "can you tell me in a voice that doesn't hurt my ears?"
LoveBeads is offline  
#7 of 19 Old 06-02-2004, 07:03 PM
 
kerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Great White North, Minnesota
Posts: 7,230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
one thing to remind people of is that the toddler's "job" is to explore. opening cabinets and such is what you want them to do -- telling them no all the time only discourages them from finding out what happens when they do something. So although it drives me batty when my 18mo has dipped her hand in the dog dish for the 20th time in the day I'm often reminded that she just likes to explore the water. In fact when i find something she *can* do related to water it goes really well. (we turn on the faucet a trickle and she plays in it while i make dinner almost every day).

Kristin -- mom of Erin (11/5/02) and Leah (9/29/05)
kerc is offline  
#8 of 19 Old 06-03-2004, 02:05 AM
PM
Banned
 
PM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
In other words, "don't touch the plant" focuses on touching the plant. If you say, "let's touch the coffee table" it focuses the child away from the plant and over to the coffee table (or whatever object they are allowed to touch). "Don't hit" focuses on hitting. Saying, "let's touch mommy gently" focuses on gentle touches.
Wow! That is some of the most valuable advice I have seen in a long time. I wish I had had that when my kid was a babe. Thanks!
PM is offline  
#9 of 19 Old 06-03-2004, 08:47 AM
 
polka hop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
*
polka hop is offline  
#10 of 19 Old 06-03-2004, 11:19 AM
 
Piglet68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Posts: 10,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yup, our DD also pretty much has free reign. Anything she shouldn't touch is kept out of reach.

If it's not dangerous, then basically she can have at it.

We limit visits to non-child-friendly homes b/c it's no fun for either of us, but if we do go I make sure to bring lots of toys, books, etc to keep her occupied, and limit the length of the visit.

I know people from the "old school" tend to get rather shocked when DD dumps a bowl of (dry) cereal on the floor and laughs and we don't do anything about it (well, okay we are now modelling cleanup behaviours etc, but when she was 16 months old that was useless)...but I say toddlers are meant to explore, and I think too many restrictions on that suppress their natural desire to explore and therefore is not in their best interests.

It's only a mess, and messes can be cleaned up. That's what DH and I always tell ourselves.

teapot2.GIF Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)  ribbonjigsaw.gif blogging.jpg homeschool.gif

Piglet68 is offline  
#11 of 19 Old 06-03-2004, 03:50 PM
 
Foobar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Beyond the last byte in the buffer
Posts: 1,944
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ok- I am a little stricter than most of the posters.

We allow some, such as rearranging her toys, making a general mess in the living room, playing in her cupboard in the kitchen, playing with water on the kitchen floor, BUT we have also instituted clean-up. She MUST help with clean up at the end. If she drops a bowl of dry cereal, she must help us clean it up.

We decided to help her learn consequences early. I didn't want to have no consequences and then suddenly at arbortrary age, she had them.

She is not punished if she doesn't help, but she rarely doesn't help. She loves to help put the cheerios back in the bowl or clean up the water on the floor.

She also learned that some things are off-limits early. For example, the upstairs fireplace has a raised hearth. She is not allowed on it because it is marble and slate. I have the bumper thingy, but it still worries me. Because we have taught her that some things are off-limits, she is pretty accepting when we visit another house and tell her that something is off-limits...
Foobar is offline  
#12 of 19 Old 06-03-2004, 11:50 PM
 
kamilla626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our 12 month old dd is allowed to explore quite a bit. We try to avoid saying "no" all day long, so instead we show her what she wants to get into and tell her about it:

This plant is fragile. You can touch it if mommy helps you, or we can play in the dirt outside.

The windchimes are pretty, but you need to be gentle.

This drawer has things that are just for mommy - not toys. You can take something out of the other drawer to play with (spoons, pan lids).

etc....
kamilla626 is offline  
#13 of 19 Old 06-03-2004, 11:58 PM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
when my son was that age, i would do this:
"NO ~ (( removing him from the situation and redirecting him to something else )) ~ we don't ____________, let's do __________ instead."

that way he learned to associate "no" with "stop doing this, do something else."

if there were things he shouldn't play with, i made sure he couldn't get to them. so, everything left down were fair game ~ his books, toys, certain pots, spoons, etc. for the few things i absolutely couldn't move, or for the times when he needed to learn not to do something in particular, i would use the above ("NO ~ do ________ instead").

i personally wouldn't let a child that age play with movies or my books, not because the movies or books are dangerous to the child, but because the child is dangerous to the movies and books. but, if a parent wants to let their child have access to those things, i wouldn't complain about a lack of discipline ~ i'd say they have different rules than i do.

really i think as long as the child learns to listen to you, especially in dangerous situations, then you're disciplining well. it's when kids aren't told no, *and* aren't redirected or taught what's right v. what's wrong, that it becomes an issue.
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#14 of 19 Old 06-04-2004, 12:09 AM
 
tboroson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Honalee
Posts: 6,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveBeads
In other words, "don't touch the plant" focuses on touching the plant. If you say, "let's touch the coffee table" it focuses the child away from the plant and over to the coffee table (or whatever object they are allowed to touch). "Don't hit" focuses on hitting. Saying, "let's touch mommy gently" focuses on gentle touches.
I have to disagree with this one. I think, if you never point out the activity that you *don't* want the child to do, the child will never learn that some actions are disapproved of. Yes, you will have to tell that toddler a million times before they decide to take you seriously; But, they'll *never* get the lesson if you never say it.

That said, you can still make it positive, or at least neutral, but not leaving it at "don't touch." I can say, for instance, "That plant is not for Talia. Why don't we look at this book instead?" or "Pinching hurts Mommy. Can you touch Mommy softly?"

This is a matter of social learning, as opposed to learning about their environment; There are very important aspects of both. Yes, it's important that kids explore their environment and learn about it freely; But they need to learn concurrently about appropriate social behavior.
tboroson is offline  
#15 of 19 Old 06-04-2004, 12:15 AM
 
Aura_Kitten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Down by the River...
Posts: 6,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I have to disagree with this one. I think, if you never point out the activity that you *don't* want the child to do, the child will never learn that some actions are disapproved of. Yes, you will have to tell that toddler a million times before they decide to take you seriously; But, they'll *never* get the lesson if you never say it.
ITA
Aura_Kitten is offline  
#16 of 19 Old 06-04-2004, 12:51 AM
 
pamelamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: *dwelling on spelling*
Posts: 5,719
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
:
pamelamama is offline  
#17 of 19 Old 06-04-2004, 01:24 AM
 
allgirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 9,327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it's a balance.. sometimes you really have to bring their attention to something they can't have...to teach them..if you do it a zillion times and they still go for the plant...then move it...it's not working...

If you do say "don't touch the plant" it may work, may not...depends on the child as well...different children learn differently...

It also depends on the goal of the parent

if the goal is teaching, then I would say "the plant is not to be touched" If the goal is keeping the child away from the plant then maybe the opposite would be more effective...what the goal is prolly should be determined by the age of the child and also just the moment...do you have time to teach at that moment or are you just in "get the child away from the plant mode"

It all works and doesn't work depending on circumstance, motive and the child.
allgirls is offline  
#18 of 19 Old 06-04-2004, 10:41 AM
 
Piglet68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Posts: 10,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboroson
I think, if you never point out the activity that you *don't* want the child to do, the child will never learn that some actions are disapproved of. ... they'll *never* get the lesson if you never say it.
I think "never" is a pretty strong word.

I think that kids aren't as simple-minded as we think. A knowing look, an emotional response from Mum...those things can send a very clear message that some things are wrong. When they are older, I think it is good to explain to them WHY a certain something might be wrong. But my feeling is, until they are old enough to understand such concepts, redirection alone can be sufficient.

With that said, I don't go out of my way to avoid saying "we don't do [X]...". I just think that those who do are not doing their children any disservice, but are promoting a certain value that is important in their family.

Interesting comments by Foo about behaviours at home translating to other people's homes. I remember reading a book that described how children act differently at home then when out and about. Actually, so do adults. And that they make that distinction quite readily.

At our home, DD is allowed to climb on the coffee table and the side table (our furniture is all junk b/c we are in a "temporary" home). In fact, the side table is her favorite spot! And yet, she has never tried to climb on anyone's furniture when we are visiting them. She is much more reserved in a strange place. Aunt Jane's coffee table does not look like ours, is not in our living room, so she doesn't apparently "assume" that b/c she can climb on ours, she can climb on anybody's, kwim?

If I had nice furniture, I probably wouldn't let her climb on it, but right now it's all junky, and its fun for her. We try to let her have as free a rein as possible, yet even so there are many opportunities for her to learn limits and to be denied a request. When we move and have nicer furniture, I have no doubts that she will easily understand that *this* particular peice is not to be climbed on. Kids are pretty adaptable, and I think lessons can be learned at any age, not just "from an early start".

teapot2.GIF Homeschooling, Homesteading Mama to DD ('02) and DS ('04)  ribbonjigsaw.gif blogging.jpg homeschool.gif

Piglet68 is offline  
#19 of 19 Old 06-04-2004, 10:53 AM
 
Ary99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We gets tons of miles out of "off limits" for stuff he's not supposed to mess with. I add "hurt baby" if it's dangerous. He does quite a bit of exploring, but he needs to help clean up. Yes, I could do it ten times faster, but I think it's important for him to learn what he messes up, he needs to pick up.
Ary99 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off