Friendly conversations on Ezzo... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2004, 07:40 PM
 
nikirj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington
Posts: 4,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is healthier by far for people of all ages to 'snack' consistently throughout the day instead of taking in large meals. Our bodies work much better, our chemicals are much more stable, when we eat at a steady pace rather than the standard US-three-times-a-day-binge.

Mama, homeschooler, midwife. DD (13yo), DS (11yo), DD (8yo), DD (3yo), somebody new coming in November 2013.

nikirj is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-08-2004, 07:41 PM
 
MamaOui's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,669
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
jkstewart

nikirj
MamaOui is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 08:08 PM
 
aprildawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,714
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstewart
MY ONLY POINT was that when used correctly with common sense, for some families this is a great and helpful program.
julia -- first of all i commend you for being willing to state your opinion, albeit unpopular. that takes courage.

i have a friend who used babywise and said the exact same thing as you about using common sense. if babywise needs a disclaimer -- "use only if you have common sense" -- i see it as a dangerous book.

the concern i have is that many people are lacking in common sense, esp when it comes to having a new baby and their life is in total upheaval. there are messages coming from every direction about how to feed/change/bathe/etc. it's such a confusing time. common sense kinda goes out the window.
aprildawn is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 09:20 PM
 
luv my 2 sweeties's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
i have a friend who used babywise and said the exact same thing as you about using common sense. if babywise needs a disclaimer -- "use only if you have common sense" -- i see it as a dangerous book.
I have to agree with this, since the result of those who have *not* used common sense has often been grave danger to the baby's health. That said, I also respect and appreciate your willingness to share your experience, Julia.

I think it's important to note that just about every book regarding baby care requires common sense. I have a couple of friends who started out as AP devotees, but gave up on AP because it "didn't work". When I talk to them further about it, it nearly always turns out that they missed the point about AP (which is listening to your baby and meeting his/her needs, IMO) and followed the "how to" part slavishly. They never left the baby's side even when they were about to crack under the stress, or they continued to try to wear their baby in a sling long after it became clear the child hated it, or they took the advice to make "no's" infrequent to a crazy extreme and became fearful of *ever* saying "no". You get the idea. The end result was that they "quit" AP and went mainstream. One even started spanking! Bottom line, parents who are low on self confidence are in danger of taking any method as the "ultimate" word on child rasing. The critical differece with Ezzo or the Pearls is that 1) they claim their way is God's way -- thus upping the stakes for parents who care about that and 2) following their advice to the letter can lead to child abuse. That's a huge difference, and reason enough to condemn the books IMO.

Stephanie mom to Brianna (6/00) , Alexander (6/02) , and Ethan (9/07) .
luv my 2 sweeties is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 10:08 PM
 
Parker'smommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstewart
Until you read THE WHOLE BOOK I don' t think you should be able to have an opinion about a method you don't fully understand.
Julia
I did read the whole book and I think sometimes that my ds didn't nurse well in the beginning of our nursing relationship as some divine intervention so I wouldn't use the methods.

All of my colleagues used the methods adn praised Ezzo as some kind of God. So, of course, being naive and all, I got the book and read it. I remember being a bit stressed out over the whole thing while pregnant too. I was worried that my baby wouldn't "do what the book said he/she should do" I remember writing down a little schedule for my baby who wasn't even born.
Also, not being a mother yet, I didn't look at all the cio as too bad either. Heck, Ezzo said I would be a "good mother" by doing what he preached. He has this scenario that he writes about throughout his book about one child that is raised on his methods and another child that is fed on demand and is seen as a poor child whose parents are basically doing evil by not parenting her in the way he advocates. He even blasted Attatchment Parenting so much in his book that I wouldn't let my mother buy me a sling before ds was born because Ezzo said that they were "not good".

But thankfully, my mother intuition kicked in and I couldn't even imagine using his methods. Now that I had a child in my arms, his methods seemed cruel and unusual punishment. My ds didn't nurse for the first 14 days and then the next 3-4 months were very difficult in terms of nursing so I couldn't even imagine trying to make him go on a schedule. I just wanted him to nurse, and I didn't care how or why! When things were better with us nursing wise I remember revisiting the book, just looking at it and reading some passages and KNEW that this wasn't the way babies were meant to be parented. That the way I was parenting thus far, which was natural, was the way I should be parenting and threw out the book!

So, yah, I read the book, planned on implenting the methods, and realized that it was a bunch of garbage. I'm really glad that things worked out for you. But coincidentally every one of the woman that I know that have used Ezzo didn't nurse past 1 year. Not one of them. Most of them actually stopped nursing at 6 months or so when Ezzo said that they should only be nursing 4 times a day - 8 am, 12pm, 4pm, and 8 pm. They all experienced supply dips and couldn't keep up?????hmmmmmmmm


And oh, yes, cio and feeding are directly related with Ezzo. You let your baby CRY IT OUT until their next scheduled feeding. How more directed can it be? CIO isn't just about sleep within the Ezzo book.

Ok, rant done.

Heather , momma to ' Parker- 10, Carlee- 7 and our baby Genevieve Faith - 8-27-10

Parker'smommy is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 10:16 PM
 
Parker'smommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstewart
I NEVER let my son scream himself to sleep (the book does not advocate that), I never was not there for him when he needed comforting (the book does condone leaving them when they need you), and I never let him go hungry (I watched to see when he was hungry). I used the book as a guide, not the final word in how I delt with my son.

I just wanted to address the bolded in that YES, Ezzo does advocate letting your child scream. He talks in detail about his wondeful little grandaughter( I forget her name and I threw out the book so I can't go and quote) that was raised on his methods. He talks about how her cries would start slow and then at around 30 minutes would hit full tilt screaming and then would finally slow down until she finally fell asleep ( uh duh, exhaustion). He talks about all of his grandchildren and their screaming/crying habits in his book. He then goes on to say that yes, this was hard on mom and dad but by 3 months old the children didn't cry at all when placed down for naps or bedtime because they knew that mom and dad meant it and that they wouldn't attend to them because they were fed, dry, and just fine. Ezzo also uses some peds to back up his theory that babies need to cry and that they won't gain any lasting harm from being left to cry for hours, yes hours. He even says to clean-up any vomit that might happen from crying and then to put baby down again for their scheduled nap or bedtime.

Heather , momma to ' Parker- 10, Carlee- 7 and our baby Genevieve Faith - 8-27-10

Parker'smommy is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
sunnmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: surrounded by love
Posts: 6,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkstewart
I watched for two months, and could tell the difference between hunger and a real feeding and when he needed something different.
Sure....I did that too. Not all cries are a hungry cry, and most mothers will intuitively grow to learn the difference. I'm not sure what that has to do with scheduled feedings?

But, then again, nursing has other functions than feeding. It is also comfort, and sucking in and of itself. I guess a paci can be substituted for the sucking, but a parent who choses not to use a paci should not ignore the need for sucking--even if the baby is not hungry. Babies might also nurse heavily/often when they are teething or sick, I recall (been weaned a while here...). Also true needs to nurse, imo, even if not hungry....
sunnmama is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 11:34 PM
 
jkstewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Air Force is our home
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1. Thank you to those who understand that I was just trying to explain my experience.

2. I didn't start any sort of schedule or program until my son was 2 months old.

3. I never had ANY nursing problems... he was a good eater right from the start... if I had any problems I most likely wouldn't have used these particular methods.

4. I am not a fundamentalist christian, so I only read the book to know what all of the fuss was about, not because I thought anyone was a god.

5. My son never screamed or threw up - if he did I would have quit... I think that is just common sense.

6. I don't believe that just because a book says something that it makes it true. All baby books are just other peoples suggestions and opinions.

7. I knew moms who used BW and didn't have a good go of it - and in my opinion should have tried other methods.

8. I also new moms that said they finally had a peaceful and happy baby in their house after using BW.

9. I understand that alot of research says that AP is/might/may be better - I myself knew that although my son slept better alone - he liked being in his sling - so I carried him with me everywhere.

10. I took a balanced approach to what advice I heeded, not just one side of the coin. Some of the things I did were mainstream, some were to the left.

11. I understand that some woman who use BW quit breastfeeding at 6 months - but remember some woman may not have breastfed at all if they didn't like what the AP books were telling them... you have to think of that.

12. My son was feeding 5-6 times a day around 6months and I didn't freak or worry that we weren't "doing it right" I understand that the book was a guideline.

13. My son weaned himself a few days before his 1st birthday - I was willing to go as long as he wanted - but after many days of his refusal to nurse at all - I LISTENED TO HIM - and didn't offer again, and he never asked...

14. For those of you who read the whole book - FINE rant all you want - I was speaking to those who had not, but posted anyway

15. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS THE END ALL BE ALL BEST METHOD!!!!!!!!!!! I am saying that even though it might have its flaws (or even dangerous issues in the hands of people who don't know any better) For the rest of us normal folks, who can use common sense, it really can help some moms ... THAT's ALL I AM SAYING - No method or book is PURE evil- and no method or book is PERFECT.


Final Thought - Then I am clamming up:
All any mom can do is the best that they can. We should understand that no mom here would do something intentional to hurt her child, there might be good reason for why she chose whatever method (BF, Formula, AP or BW) and all of us can learn from sharing experiences
- I shared because I wanted to let people know, that a natural mom could use something like BW and have a positive result. That is all - I just wanted to share my personal experience - no more -

Peace,
Julia wife of "The Love of my Life"
Mother of :bf Braden 06/03 William due 04/20/05
and 2 awesome :
jkstewart is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 11:45 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
"I don't think everyone should do this method ... but not everyone can do the AP or Womanly Art approach either. My only point was that every family and child has different needs, and as a natural family (us) this happened to really work well for us. "

(I tried to do the little quote-thingie but I accidentally erased my post and I'm not sure how to do the little quote-box thing manually.)

I disagree- I beleive that everyone CAN do Dr. Sears' approach of "listen to your baby and do what works for your family."

ANY parenting book can be used by a thinking parent as a resource on child development, and adapt it to their own parenting style. The problem is that many parents DON'T think, and DO use a book as a "bible." When I give a book to expecting or new parents, I make sure it's one that won't cause harm if it's used without thinking.

I just have to comment on the Christian concept of "Spare the rod, spoil the child." The Jewish Rabbis that I've heard speak on this topic (who have read the Bible in the original Hebrew) all explain that the "rod" referred to in the Bible was used by sheep herders- not to HIT the sheep, but to point them in the right direction or to guide them.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 11:46 PM
 
carolsly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 538
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have read the Ezzo's book, and I have read several of the Pearls books. I get the NGJ magazine on a regular basis. I read the whole thing, and I use what I think is appropriate. I really love the way that the Pearls are so simple. The anti-govt. idea is beyond me.

The main stream author that I really found useful was Dr. Sears. He does not speak of religion in his books (at least not that I have seen) and he gives people several ideas on how to address situations.

I all kinds of tools. I have never hit my children or put them on a schedule, but I have used little pieces of information to help me parent. I can't name a particular one from Ezzo, but from Pearls I do use the idea that if I ask the older child to watch the younger one she has permission to keep her safe. That may mean that my 6yo drags my 2.5 year old from the back yard when she starts to eat yellow snow. My 6 yo knows that we do not hit in this house for any reason, but I can't ask my 6yo to watch the 2 year old without giving her some kind of power. This works for us.

Use what works and makes sense to you, don't use the other stuff. I don't advocate the switch option from the Pearls. I have friends who use it. As long as they don't hit my kids..they make their own decisions.

When people ask me about these authors, I tell them basically the same thing I wrote here. Use what you can and leave the rest. That is basically life. :
carolsly is offline  
Old 12-09-2004, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
sunnmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: surrounded by love
Posts: 6,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
jkstewart--I am sorry that you are not feeling "heard". I've definitely been there on a message board, and its not a good feeling

I hear you saying that there are useful ideas in the Ezzo books. My pov is, sure, but many (all?) of those ideas are in other books as well. The ideas that are actually unique to the Ezzo books (like the PDF) are the ideas that are potentially dangerous. A confident, compassionate parent would not be likely to harm their child thru strict adherence to the book. But a less confident, or less compassionate parent might. A new mama without a whole lot of alternative support, and with heavy pressure from family and church to put the baby on a schedule, for instance.

I am glad that you found a solution for your family. I believe you when you say that you did not leave your dc to scream. I am sure you are a caring, compassionate mama who knows her dc well.

That said, I believe Ezzo's teachings to be potentially harmful. I wish we could assume that all parents would use moderation and common sense, but that just isn't reality.
sunnmama is offline  
Old 12-09-2004, 10:11 PM
 
~*~MamaJava~*~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nursing Mother
.....and yeah, I like his conservative bend.
I am very conservative myself; his Focus on the Family ministry is right up my alley.
~*~MamaJava~*~ is offline  
Old 12-09-2004, 11:05 PM
 
darsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is sorta off topic but I gotta share this.
I started coming to MDC 2 monthes before Darlene was born. I'd just recieved Dr. Sears baby book.

Well, when Darlene was born I *KNEW* what it took to be the perfect parent. And *I* was going to be *IT*.
Breastfeed, sling, keep the tv off, dont use any of those icky baby things like swings, cribs etc.

I had low-confidence and not a lot of self-esteem with parenting ideals, so I was going to follow Dr. Sears to a TEE.

Breastfeeding I gave up on and pumped. Darlene hated the sling (at first), She would tune into the tv (yes, as a newborn) whenever it was on, dragging out the swing when I was feeling completely beaten and stressed I bawled.

I was a horrible parent. Not like the MDC moms who would NEVER put their child in a swing, or give up breastfeeding. I might as well start CIO, and bottle propping!

Then, my MW said something (repeatedly actually, just finally it clicked!) "Do what works for you both! If she likes the swing-USE IT!" (etc. etc)

I'm happy to say that I learned not everyone on MDC is that perfect parent I was idealizing (Thank god), and some do use swings and you know what, I learned what AP was on "MY" terms. Everyones terms are different.

For me, It's about loving your child, listening to him/her, putting yourself in their shoes, and doing things that make them feel safe and loved.

I bottle nurse as I call it, and learned from my mistake with bf'ing what to do diff. with this new one.
I sling her now that she likes it.
I put her in the swing when she wants it.
I co-sleep, cause we like too.

I feel I'm AP, and like I'm the perfect parent to MY child. Which is all what we are aiming for right?

So if Julia's baby and her thrived on BW, (And I mean TRULY thrived in the good sense of the word) maybe it really worked for them. AP is working for thousands of parents, despite thousands of peoples opinions that its a hassle/dangerous for the child etc.
She already said she didnt cio, etc. so thats not breaking the MDC rules, right?
And, no, I've never read the book.

Okay rant done.

(PS) In a good way you all helped make me the good mama I am today. I really think you mom's on MDC.

Peace & Love,
Katie
darsmama is offline  
Old 12-09-2004, 11:41 PM
 
~*~MamaJava~*~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Katie~ I totally, totally agree.

I am relatively new to AP as a school of thought. I started out by instinct with DS1, and listened to some of what those around me told me. We did ok - but there was some CIO, and a great deal of frustration on my part about many things. I started visiting MDC when he was 8 months old, and loved it! I learned so much. Thought I'd be 100% perfect with Luke. Um, not so much. I felt so guilty. How could all these mamas do everything right but I couldn't?
I've gotten real with myself and decided to do what works for us. I have learned a lot from MDC/Dr. Sears and it IS making me a better mama with more successful BFing this time, and no CIO. But certain things don't always work for us - slinging all the time and 100% cosleeping. So I'm letting that go, but continuing to follow my sons' clues and respond to their needs.

Katie, I you girl! We are on the same page, I think. And congratulations with your new babe!
~*~MamaJava~*~ is offline  
Old 12-09-2004, 11:47 PM
 
darsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hehe

Thanks Christina! Your a doll ...Thank you :
darsmama is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:12 AM
 
squintz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but for some reason can't help myself.....

With dd1, I had never heard of Ezzo, MDC or anything like that. We just did what worked, and she was a model baby. She was really an easy baby. So we decided to have another. And she was a higher needs baby. So I started reading everything I could and Ezzo was one of those.....(I didn't hear about the Pearls until recently and was totally disgusted and didn't hear about Dobson until I read this thread - shows what kind of bubble I live in!)

While I was reading BW, bits and pieces of it made sense. A lot of it did not. I used my common sense (which apparently a lot of the general population - not the ladies here) are lacking, and pulled out the pieces that helped.

The only thing I got from that book that helped us at all was the schedule - and I didnt' even really use that. I turned it into a routine, so she ate, played, slept. In that order, but always whenever she wanted. She thrived on that, and my bb's thanked me since she'd been using me to nurse to sleep and I was almost constantly engorged.

And I think that piece of information was probably available in other places.

So I can see how kind of following pieces of the book would be helpful, but I'm not a fan. I would never recommend this book to people, and have convinced my pg friend not to bother reading it, since I know it's not something she's really into.

I am glad I read it though, so I knew that I didn't really like it........:
squintz22 is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:33 AM
 
famousmockngbrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: home
Posts: 6,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't mean to be snarky, really I don't. But I hope someone can explain this to me. How can you put a baby on a feeding schedule and *not* deny them food when they are hungry? It seems to me that you are either feeding them when they are hungry, i.e. on demand, or you are making them wait, however long or short a time, for the next scheduled feeding. IMO, if you have a "routine" that is based on knowing when your child is naturally hungry and feeding them at those times, and if they get hungry at other times you feed them, that is not actually scheduling their feedings. How is that different than feeding on demand? Can someone help me out with this? Because I am really confused.
famousmockngbrd is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:37 AM
 
KellyB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe some babies naturally want to eat around every 2 hours?
Mine didn't, but maybe some do?
KellyB is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 07:28 AM
 
darsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Famous,
I understand your wondering.
I think you were probably close with the routine. Some babies are easier led into a routine then others.
Like, (I haven't done this but a for instance):
Baby usually eats around 7:00 pm and then goes to sleep at 8:00pm to wake up at 11pm. So, distract the child with play for 15 minutes at 7:00pm so it eats at 7:15pm (No CIO) and do that over the course of a week until the child is eating on more of a schedule - eats at 8:00pm, sleeps at 9pm until midnight. Get in that groove and you have a schedule/routine.
I dont know, I'm just guessing maybe this is what they mean by scheduled feeding.

I'm kind of lucky that I'm a SAHM and Darlene's schedule is my schedule. Plus, shes fairly consistant about falling asleep for her 4 hour stretch sometime before midnight.
I do realize not everyone is so lucky, and can see how that could be a more gentle approach then letting a kid CIO til the next scheduled feeding. The above is kind of what I assumed Julia was doing.

Don't flame me, this is just my guess.
darsmama is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:29 PM
 
maya44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyb
Maybe some babies naturally want to eat around every 2 hours?
Mine didn't, but maybe some do?

Well, every 2 hours was as much as my first dd could bf without becoming ill. At first I thought she was wanting to eat every 45 min to hour, but she was then crying all of the time in between and seemed to be in pain and would spit up HUGE amounts.

Then I decided to just let her suck on my fingers and only eat every 2 hours. This seemed to make an immediate difference. She stopped crying so much and started to gain more weight.

I considered it that her demands were only to eat every 2 hours and that what she was demanding before that was to suck not to eat.

So I was trying to meet her demands not schedule her.
maya44 is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 12:44 PM
 
~*~MamaJava~*~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
maya43, I have had the same experience with my two boys. both of them *acted* hungry every hour, but if I fed them that often - or even every two hours - they really had tummy troubles. Both times I have had oversupply issues for the first few weeks and they were drinking it all! It was too much. So I have to make sure there is a two hour or so interval between feedings or else they are miserable. I didn't watch the clock exactly, but the occasional longer stretch between feedings really settled their tummies. They both had such a strong need to suck, not so much feed, but suck.
JMHO, schedules are *not* the devil. I don't stick to a rigid schedule but I have found both my kids thrive on a mostly regular schedule of waking, feeding and napping. They are much happier that way. Sometimes they need to vary that schedule, they are extra hungry or whatever. Obviously the Ezzo's 4 hr schedule is too hard on BF babies. And again, it has more to do with following baby's lead. If your baby thrives and is happy nursing on a totally random schedule, than great. If baby is screaming all the time, you need to change something.
~*~MamaJava~*~ is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:34 PM
 
Too Busy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In a house
Posts: 941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya43
Well, every 2 hours was as much as my first dd could bf without becoming ill. At first I thought she was wanting to eat every 45 min to hour, but she was then crying all of the time in between and seemed to be in pain and would spit up HUGE amounts.

Then I decided to just let her suck on my fingers and only eat every 2 hours. This seemed to make an immediate difference. She stopped crying so much and started to gain more weight.

I considered it that her demands were only to eat every 2 hours and that what she was demanding before that was to suck not to eat.

So I was trying to meet her demands not schedule her.
Ditto, that. Your DD sounds just like mine.
Too Busy is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 04:00 PM
 
KermitMissesJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: With the lovers and the dreamers
Posts: 2,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So on this thread we've figured out that no one thing is perfect for every baby...which we all already knew.

I think *my* problem with Ezzo is his books suggest it is the *only* way to go. And that if you are not successful using Babywise, it is implied that you are doing it wrong. New moms are so unprepared...a book like this at the wrong time can do a lifetime of damage.

We are six: Me : Dh : Ds1('00) Dd('02) Ds2('05) Ds3('08) and, wow! Soon to be seven, Dd2 due 4/23.
KermitMissesJim is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 07:15 PM
 
maya44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanie Mama
Ditto, that. Your DD sounds just like mine.
Except mine is now 11 years old!!!!!!!
maya44 is offline  
Old 12-10-2004, 11:35 PM
 
jkstewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Air Force is our home
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have been reading all of the posts since I backed out a few days ago, and
I am very happy to see the discussion that followed.

The only other thing I have to say is that Ezzo starts newborns out at feeding every 2 hours and it isn't until they are 6months that they go to 4 hours....

anyway... I think Darsmama said it best when she said that we all have to watch to see what our babies need and it may be a combination of AP and schedule or whatever.... as long as the childs needs are met, the method should not matter... okay I am done :-)


Julia
jkstewart is offline  
Old 12-12-2004, 12:59 AM
 
heartmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with Irishmommy
Posts: 5,986
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You cannot separate Babywise from it's theme of putting the baby "in it's place", of Ezzo's clear, unequivocal, unwavering message of detachment from the baby.

An intelligent person can extract wisdom from corruption, and your ability to do this does not rest on redefining corruption as effective.

If you found some bit of wisdom in Babywise, it is because you applied your own wisdom too it. It was NOT because Gary Ezzo is a wise man who wrote an intelligent respectful book.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day as someone said.

Babywise is a terribly anti AP book. It isn't just different than ap, it openly condemns the fate of parents who allow demand feeding, co sleeping, positive discipline. Ezzo is AGAINST those things. He does not say "if it works for you, your child will thrive if you respond to his every cry and feed him whenever he is hungry!". He is against it, and thinks it is harmful. Period.

Recognize what the book IS; don't identify it with what you managed to extract and apply gently from it. Your gentle interpretations are a credit to yourself. They are not a credit to Ezzo, or the babywise approach.

To the OP, I usually raise a few thoughtful points if babywise comes up IRL. "Oh I heard the AAP issued a statement of concern about his books" "Oh I heard Ezzo was asked to leave the church he started" and let people respond to that.

Mother is the word for God on the hearts and lips of all little children--William Makepeace Thackeray
heartmama is offline  
Old 12-12-2004, 01:48 AM
 
famousmockngbrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: home
Posts: 6,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well said, heartmama.
famousmockngbrd is offline  
Old 12-12-2004, 02:01 AM
 
Too Busy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In a house
Posts: 941
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya43
Except mine is now 11 years old!!!!!!!
:LOL
Too Busy is offline  
Old 12-12-2004, 02:53 PM
 
Divina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CO
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
nak
i think some people actually do feeding on demand witin a loose routine and call it scheduled ... forsome inexperienced people, the phrase
'feeding on demand' sounds kind of scary--'demand' 'demanding' y'know?
Divina is offline  
Old 12-12-2004, 03:53 PM
 
mommaluv321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montague,MA
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I completely agree w/ you heartmama. since I started reading this thread I've been doing alot of research on the subject, and I have actually read/skimmed babywise when my first dd was born and tossed it because I hated it so much ( i just didn't remember the authors name till recently) I think one of the major hurdles that needs to be overcome in AP is the justifcation of things (like swatting your baby) that have no right to be justified. most ppl have a tendancy of making excuses for things that deep down they are unsure of, because our society has ingrained in us that we can't admit failure in most things, especially not in parenting. just my 2 cents, not said very eloquently, JMHO.
mommaluv321 is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off