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#61 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Krystal323

Did you really read my thread or is it just the things that I choose to 'control' that bothered you?? The whole point of my thread was that things change over time and I am open to that but it is still my job to protect him.

You may feel that Gatorade is better than giving my son a homemade yogurt smoothie but I don't. I feel that the chemical made to produce the flavors and colors in that stuff are things my son does not need at this age. I do think he needs fresh fruit and calcium so I choose to give him the smoothie. When he is older will I refuse Gatorade? I don't know. Most likely it will be something we agree on later on in life. But I will have also instilled him why I think Gatorade is bad for a growing body.

If you read my initial thoughts on candy I would have also hoped you saw that it was originally never ever ever. I didn't understand (and still don't) why a 1 year old needs lollipops or sweet tarts etc. However I changed my mind, as he got older. Do I buy it? No. But he can have it if he goes trick or treating or at B-day parties etc. Since it is never in the house he is never “denied”. It’s not like I sit around eating snickers but tell him no.

Yes my son at 5 might loves swords etc and I am willing to take a wait and see attitude. At 3 I don't think the violent play associated with power rangers is something I want my son exposed to so we don't buy it or watch it. Did I run screaming from the room, shielding my son eyes when ½ the boys in his school were dressed up as power rangers? Of course not.

As you said here things do change:

Quote:
When my son was born I was SURE he'd never wield a toy sword or play with any violent action figure. But he's 5.5 and loves both. Things change, and I finally had to decide that honoring his wishes were more important to me than protecting him from the bogeymen that apparently only exist in MY head.
And as I said

Quote:
I know that my feelings have changed in the last 3 years and I know they will change more over the next 3. I foresee today that with every passing year I will be letting go of more and therefore controlling less of son's life.
I may or may not change my attitudes about them. But as I said before there are A few thing I know I will NOT compromise on TODAY or in the in the immediate future. Never did I say would not reconsider.

One of the reason we don’t watch commercial TV is also for violence issues (as well as marketing, a whole other issue). I think at 3 the even the local new is just way to violent for a 3 year old. IMO, he can’t nor do I want him to be able understand and absorb those images. My decision to expose him to violent play or violence in general will happen when he is older. Will it be 4? 5? 6? I just don’t know at this stage of the game.

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#62 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 08:23 PM
 
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I haven't read the whole thread (just the first 40 posts) but here's my two cents anyway.

I don't think that it's "controlling" my children to have rules and to direct their behavior in certain ways. It keeps the peace in a group setting (which a family is) and helps to model our values (which I believe is a parent's responsibility).

My children are toddlers and they don't have the life experience I do. I think I would be neglient in depriving them of the benefit of my experience if I just let them follow their bliss. For example: today my daughter took off her shoes and socks in the car and wanted to walk into the house (about 100 yards) in two inches of snow. Sorry, not happening. I told her she could put her shoes on or be carried. She didn't want to do either so I said I would make the decision then. I started to pick her up and she started yelling and chose to put her shoes on. Did I control her? I'm sure some would say I did. I suppose I could have let her walk in the snow until she realized it hurt her feet and then helped her put her shoes on, but a) with two toddlers, I can't indulge every whim and b) walking in the snow would hurt her feet and I'm not willing to let her get hurt.

Someone made the comment about if their child can't have the coffee then they can't either. I have seen similar sentiments here a lot and I don't think I could disagree with that more. Children are NOT adults. They are equally deserving of respect but not, in my opinion, equally deserving of autonomy. Adults get to choose what they do; that's part of being an adult. Children don't always get to choose; that's part of being a child. I'm fine with that idea and don't feel the need to change it. Children don't have the life experience to make the informed decisions that adults do. I am well aware that many adults make bad choices, but as far as I'm concerned, that's their privilege. I think children need and deserve to be guided to positive choices so that they have the opportunity to grow up learning not to make bad choices.

So to sum it up, I don't think that making rules and forbidding certain things is controlling. I think it's guiding, I think it's assisting, I think it's parenting.

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#63 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 09:08 PM
 
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dharmamama wrote:
I'm sure some would say I did. I suppose I could have let her walk in the snow until she realized it hurt her feet and then helped her put her shoes on, but a) with two toddlers, I can't indulge every whim and b) walking in the snow would hurt her feet and I'm not willing to let her get hurt.

Yes you did control her (but you already know that). What difference does having two kids in this instance make I wonder? Of course I agree we cannot bend to every single whim. No one on earth can. But why are you anticipating "every whim" when she was just wanting this thing right now? Would it have been me I would have just told her calmly that "Well you can walk in it if you want to, but the snow is very cold and it might hurt your feet." If she choose to walk to the house in the snow and it hurt her feet anyway so be it. I gave her some prior warning about the snow that she might not have realized (benefit of my wisdom) and still honored her desire to be barefoot. What's the big deal here?

Children are NOT adults. They are equally deserving of respect but not, in my opinion, equally deserving of autonomy. Adults get to choose what they do; that's part of being an adult. Children don't always get to choose; that's part of being a child.

Not in my family. It doesn't always work that way. We have found very few instances where there was not some way for them to have a say about something. Clearly as they've gotten older they understand that not every thing will go their way. Then again we follow TCS lines, and that could be the difference here.

Children don't have the life experience to make the informed decisions that adults do. I am well aware that many adults make bad choices, but as far as I'm concerned, that's their privilege. I think children need and deserve to be guided to positive choices so that they have the opportunity to grow up learning not to make bad choices.

So it's a privilege to make decisions and learn from them, and only adults get that privilege? That doesn't seem quite right to me.The way we get life experience is to make choices, sometimes bad ones, and then learn from the result. Children absolutely do deserve to be guided toward positive choices, but to me you aren't talking about guidance... You are talking about force. They are two entirely different animals. I wonder which one breeds more animosity.

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#64 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 09:15 PM
 
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My apologies for not being more ON topic to the OP
Yeah, I do think a yogurt smoothie is probably worse than gatorade :LOL but that'a just a simple difference of opinion--splitting hairs, right?

The younger one's kids are, the more "absoultes" one seems to have regarding what they'll be "allowed" to eat/wear/do/etc.

My general feelings are that too many moms (in their very well-meaning attempts of creating the "perfect" environment for their child) end up being *too rigid* for *too long*. +++Flexibility is the keyword IMO+++

And that's the point I was trying to make, and apparently didn't do too well in my last post--sorry!

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#65 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 09:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Children don't have the life experience to make the informed decisions that adults do. I am well aware that many adults make bad choices, but as far as I'm concerned, that's their privilege. I think children need and deserve to be guided to positive choices so that they have the opportunity to grow up learning not to make bad choices.
But children are not going to be satisfied with this answer. They may not hear "You can't have coffee because I'm old enough and experienced enough to know its effects, and you're not, and I care about you" - it may just sound like "Because I get to do what I want and you have to do what I say!" And that's not how I want it to be.
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#66 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 09:21 PM
 
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what UnschoolnMa said

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#67 of 105 Old 01-19-2005, 10:03 PM
 
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UnschoolnMa, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. In fact, I dislike how this forum often turns into picking people apart for what they've said rather than discussing discipline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa
So it's a privilege to make decisions and learn from them, and only adults get that privilege?
Last week, on the way to the car to storytime, my daughter wanted to take off her gloves and put her hands in the snow. I told her that it would make her hands cold and that she'd be uncomfortable on the way to storytime. She did it anyway, and she cried all the way to storytime because her hands hurt. Today when she wanted to walk in the snow, I reminded her of that and said it would make her feet hurt the way it did when she put her hands in the snow and they hurt. Her response? "No it won't." My daughter is two. I don't think it's appropriate (or nice, for that matter) to allow her to make bad decisions when she's not old enough to understand (or learn from, apparently) those bad choices, especially when they cause her physical pain.
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#68 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 04:20 AM
 
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dharmamama wrote:
UnschoolnMa, I don't appreciate your condescending tone. In fact, I dislike how this forum often turns into picking people apart for what they've said rather than discussing discipline.

Well, I am sorry you feel I was being condescending but I don't see it that way This thread is discussing discipline issues, and I was responding to your post about that very issue. I wasn't picking *you* apart for what you'd said, but I am definately discussing/debating what you are talking about regarding discipline. That is exactly what this forum is for unless I am mistaken. People disagree...naturally. How else was I supposed to respond to your post without replying to the issues I had with what you wrote? No personal attack meant at all.... that's just not my style.

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#69 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 04:42 AM
 
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Oh, oh, pick me appart~

I did have some questions for the non-control group that I posted earlier in the thread. Part of why I'm involved in this thread is because lean ideologically towards not controlling my child.

I'm really trying to figure out why I then feel so different from those of you who don't practice any or much less control than I do.

Part of me thinks this must be a lifestyle issue. We are extremely flexible people with a quite 'out there' lifestyle. By that I mean we do lots of different activities with lots of different people. We live in town and interact with our community a lot! We also travel quite a bit, eat out, DC is starting pre-K, we ride our bike and we also rely on friends for a lot of help and help them in return. This is a large part of our family values.

I say this because often times, there is a necessity for control from these things. Yes, safety is part of this as is respect for our community or following someone else's rules, and often it's just about getting somewhere, or doing some of the 'leg work' for a fun activity. These are the choices that we make, I like to think we make this lifestyle choice as a family, DC thrives in this setting and gets a choice in the things we do. But, she's 3 and sometimes she can choose to participate in something but can't fully commit to everything she would need to do in order to make it work.

The example of the snow is a good one for us. The snow is normally in the mountains for us and we get a ride with another family. So, I would not allow DC to walk without shoes when it would mean learning a lesson at the expense of our friends having to leave. But, I would let DC walk in the snow at our home, where she could easily come in. Some of you might call this solution a 'common preference' others might call it a compromise. I'd call it controlling whether or not she keeps her shoes on when we're in the mountains. This is the semantics issue that I was talking about.

Another value of ours is that we don't put ourselves selfishly in front of others. An example would be when we have tv-free friends visiting we don't use the tv. It dosn't have anything to do with controlling the tv for Aya at that point...the other value of supporting our friends with wonderful commitment comes first.

This gets into the whole balance thing. Vomiting from candy is a tough one for me. I would probably let that happen once but if I had a child who did that repeatedly or we were far from home, I might not, YK? This is a pattern for me here at MDC and in my parenting in life in general. That there is always a balance and there are usually many more things to consider than what's apparent at first thought. Part of it is about just how stressful the consequence of the lesson is and this is a balance we will be finding for many, many years to come. In this way, these years are a time for *me* to learn as a parent as well because I think the really difficult control issues will come later in my parenting.

Also, I've noticed that some of you are reacting to controlling parents. I guess I'm reacting as well. My parents were absolutely not controlling to the extent that I felt a touch alone in my risks as a child. My parents really did let me choose to, say go to school without underwear and I was teased. I still remember that. I know we all have these type things but we learn to improve as parents, right? So, I'd let DC go to school, maybe but I'd put a pair of undies in her bag. I'll let her walk in the snow but when we're close to home so she doesn't have to go an hour with freezing feet.

I guess, I'm expressing what I feel the difference is here. I feel that with giving DC control she still needs to feel supported by me. That's a balance that I'm sure most of us are trying to find.

I have also been wanting to ask about breastfeeding to those of you who don't control food.

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#70 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 06:32 AM
 
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I dont control food, and am "still" breastfeeding, I do not schedule nursing or anything. When ds wants to nurse, I nurse. a lot of times, he seems to just need an emotional pickmeup of a quick nursing when he has a fall or some other toddler frustration. He is jsut 18 mo.s so he is learning a lot quickly.....
So, I do not control nursing. I feel it is the best nutrition forhim and it gives him emotional nurishment, too. Sometimes if he is nursing a lot in the morning, I'll ask him if he is jsut hungry or thirsty and wants to get up to eat some breakfast, and get some water. Sometimes I bring him out to the kitchen if hes been nursing for over an hour straight in the morning because I know there isnt milk left and figure he is just hungry and thirsty. I feel that nursing on cue has really given us a strong trust, I really value it. I plan to naturally do child led weaning...........

I dont really control food at all- I think I have gone into detail about that - maybe that was just in the old-What do you do when your child doesnt want dinner thread...? so I wont repeat everything-

but heres another example tonight- Its late and ds goes to the fridge for a snack- every night for a little while it has been hummus and crackers, rice cakes, veggie chips-- tonite he grabs those same things, except he also grabs the cocunut cake that dh brought home from a work party. SO, I do not have any reaction to this. I do not say- No its too late for cake, or No you shouldnt have the sugar, etc. I just dont make a big deal. SO, we sit and snack with the hummus for a while and every once a while he pokes at the coconut cake and tastes maybe less than a pea size piece and thats it. No big deal. we didnt have to make it a power struggle ... Thats how the sweets always go, he tastes a tiny bit. He doesnt pig out like some would think- if you let a child make a choice will do. He also eats a lot of vareid foods, spices, etc. He is not scared by new foods, like some pp's suggest will happen if we let him choose when and what he eats.
He eats very healthy foods by choice - wehn he wants, what he wants- I respect his choices. He knows better than me when he is hungry. I think letting him decide creates postive associations with food and eating for his life.
Now, I have a feeling it is a combination ofd things- maybe he just doesnt have a sweet tooth,may be it is b/c he sees us eating and enjoying healthy tasty foods together w/o any pressure or judgements, or maybe b/c I have never praised or criticized his food choices... he doesnt see "good" and "bad" foods, etc...This is my first ds, so I am not certain
I don't know
From reading these threads I get the feeling that everyone thinks their way, if we can make it so balck and white, is creating the healthiest most adventurous type eater.

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#71 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 06:42 AM
 
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Wow, what an interesting thread. I agree and disagree with so many of you on so many different points. I truly believe children need to learn to make their own choices and it's our job to help guide them. I respect mothers who feel and act differently. But, what torques me are those same mothers who get bent out of shape b/c my child isn't conforming to their standard of clothing or play or safety, etc etc. Children learn by doing. Boy,I wish I remembered the stats on how much we learn by listening, vs sharing vs participating. If we control a fearful child now, what's going to happen when you're not around and they're alone? Or, with the "wrong crowd?"
Ah, but a million different situations and circumstances.
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#72 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 07:01 AM
 
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ohh, i just realized I need to clarify-
I DO control food to an extent- we are vegetarain and ds is allergic to corn products.
I will let him choose if he wants to eat meat when he is old enough to understand what killing an animal means, as well as the other ethical , environmental, etc issues...
I find a balance,too

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#73 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 08:59 AM
 
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In regards to BFing I was thinking more of restricting 'supplementing' with young children or beginning solids with some restrictions/control. I completely realize this is an extreme example but I did wonder.

Regarding control for ethical reasons...I find this interesting because some ethical issues are so common and obvious and some are less so (I guess...not to me but to others, maybe).
Would controlling cross marketed toys or toys manufactured in an unethical way, restricting foods produced by Nestle, religious objections, controlling wastefulness, and etc recieve the same understanding as vegetarianism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musingmama
I will let him choose if he wants to eat meat when he is old enough to understand what killing an animal means, as well as the other ethical , environmental, etc issues
How do those of you who object to restricting Garoraid or Powerrangers feel about this statement:

"I will let him have ****** when he is old enough to understand the ethical, environmental issues and etc. associated with that choice."

I'm not trying to pick on you, musingmama. But you see where I'm going here.

Thanks for the dialogue, mamas. It's really helped me focus on this issue again.

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#74 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 09:05 AM
 
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Sorry, I just wanted to reiterate about the, admittedly silly, question about BFing. It's important to me that you all know that I was totally thinking of restricting supplements and early solids and etc. I was *not at all thinking of scheduling, restricting BFing*.

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#75 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
How do those of you who object to restricting Garoraid or Powerrangers feel about this statement:

"I will let him have ****** when he is old enough to understand the ethical, environmental issues and etc. associated with that choice."
Well, since I am the only one who specifically mentioned gatorade and powerrangers you must be directing that at me?? So I will bite...

This is what I said earlier:

Quote:
When he is older will I refuse Gatorade? I don't know. Most likely it will be something we agree on later on in life. But I will have also instilled him why I think Gatorade is bad for a growing body.
This what I said about power rangers and violence/violent play:

Quote:
Yes my son at 5 might loves swords etc and I am willing to take a wait and see attitude. At 3 I don't think the violent play associated with power rangers is something I want my son exposed to so we don't buy it or watch it. Did I run screaming from the room, shielding my son eyes when ½ the boys in his school were dressed up as power rangers? Of course not.
Quote:
I may or may not change my attitudes about them. But as I said before there are A few thing I know I will NOT compromise on TODAY or in the in the immediate future. Never did I say would not reconsider.
Quote:
One of the reason we don’t watch commercial TV is also for violence issues (as well as marketing, a whole other issue). I think at 3 the even the local new is just way to violent for a 3 year old. IMO, he can’t nor do I want him to be able understand and absorb those images. My decision to expose him to violent play or violence in general will happen when he is older. Will it be 4? 5? 6? I just don’t know at this stage of the game.
I think that answers the question but just in case it didn't

As my son matures I am positive I will let him make the choices and decisions that today I make for him. If he wants to drink Gatorade when he is older that will be his choice but hopefully he will understand that all those chemicals are not really good for him. That there is a place for all foods in a healthy diet/all things in moderation.

Same with violence and violent play. Will I ever be truly comfortable with it, most likely not, but when I know that he "is old enough to understand the ethical, environmental issues and etc. associated with that choice" he will be free to make those decisions.

I guess what I struggle with the most is will we (my son and I) ever be on the same page on what that age/maturity level will be! I cannot say with any certainty that yes at 5 1/2 he can watch the news and at 4 he can have Gatorade and 7 he can do XYZ.

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#76 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 11:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama
Regarding control for ethical reasons...I find this interesting because some ethical issues are so common and obvious and some are less so (I guess...not to me but to others, maybe).
Would controlling cross marketed toys or toys manufactured in an unethical way, restricting foods produced by Nestle, religious objections, controlling wastefulness, and etc recieve the same understanding as vegetarianism?



How do those of you who object to restricting Garoraid or Powerrangers feel about this statement:
My question was actually more to people who don't support restricting these thigns but who may or may not understand restricting meat for a veg.

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#77 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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OOps!! : I apologize, I guess I missed a key word!!

Sorry again and back to your regularly scheduled post......

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#78 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 12:48 PM
 
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I, too, get uncomfortable when things like make choices are considered an adult privelege. Mainly, because I don't think it helps kids want to be kids, you know?

Someone once pointed out to me that if kids are not allowed to make choices, how will they learn to make choices. And that seems important. I wonder if too many kids and adults make poor and/or destructive choices because (a) they are reacting/rebelling against the control of their early lives or (b) because they've just never had that responsibility before.

Re. the bfing question--I view that partly as a safety issue and partly as a non-issue. I don't think giving infants food is a particularly good idea, given what we know about their digestive systems or potential for allergic reactions. But, I also think it's a bit of a non-issue since babies aren't likely to be requesting things other than bmilk.

I think the snow example of holding up the friends is a good example of where people might be missing each other in this discussion. Being considerate of your friends' time and hospitality is not the same as an arbitrary rule or situation where a parent is just saying 'no' because it is inconvenient or whatever. Children can understand that difference and they should. I know my child doesn't resent 'no' when there is a logical explanation behind it.

I also want to point out that not controlling your child doesn't mean offering them every single thing in the whole world. If your family buys at the health food store, then Gatorade probably isn't on anyone's radar screen. If it comes up (like at a birthday party or some such) I don't think it's something to make a big deal out of either way. If the kid asks what it is, you could tell him what's in it and why you don't normally care for it, but I don't think forbidding it will do anything but make them want it more.

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#79 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 01:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom
Someone once pointed out to me that if kids are not allowed to make choices, how will they learn to make choices.
My kids get to make many, many choices; many more than lots of kids their ages that I know. However, I don't let my toddlers make choices that will result in negative consequences that they are not old enough to forsee or really understand when I explain them. I'm sure that I will feel that way all the time my kids are growing up. I will provide them with the opportunity to make as many choices as they can ... but I won't just throw them in the pool to sink or swim if I don't feel that they can make an informed choice. Little kids can learn to make good choices within appropriate parameters. As they get older, those parameters will expand.

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#80 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dharmamama
but I won't just throw them in the pool to sink or swim if I don't feel that they can make an informed choice.
I'm pretty sure you are speaking metaphorically here, but just in case anyone thinks that this is the sort of choices I'm talking about it most definitely is not.

But, I also don't think touching snow and getting cold hands is all that dangerous, either--that's just learning to me.
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#81 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 01:29 PM
 
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I want to share a story even though it isn't something I am particularly proud of but I am really struggling with sticking to my noncontrolling stance right now.

My oldest, who is now 20 was raised pretty free. I didn't really have a philosphy or the support of a group or the internet or anything but I was raised to make my own choices and did pretty good.

When he was 15- he was really out of control. He had serious problems at school, was diagnosed ADD and bipolar and was smoking pot. I had offered him every solution, help I could think of. He was running wild and it was killing me. I finally told him that I couldn't support the decisions he was making and I asked him to either get help or leave. He left. It was the most horrible two months of my life. He called regularly but slept on couches and continued to do whatever he wanted. I kept expecting to get the call that he was dead somewhere or in jail.

Here is what happened. Nate was dealing drugs at raves. He was using a lot of chemicals. He was making a lot of money. He was 15. One day, he figured out- by himself that the path he was on was really dangerous and he stopped. He quit dealing, he quit using (ok- he still smokes pot) and he came home with his tail between his legs, asking for help and support.

Now in all honesty, he is still struggling but he is living his life for himself and he accepts responsibility for his choices and he is a sweet, loving human being I am proud to know. (Wish he could keep a job, but that will come.) So when I hear control, I think about letting him go out without a coat to learn for himself and I don't know... My family blames my parenting for some of his struggles and gives me little credit for what a great person they all think he is. And I have to make those choices again very soon. I have to decide if I have enough faith in my beliefs and enough faith in my children to go through puberty two more times.

Honestly, this conversation has been really helpful for me. I am noncontrolling but not as much as some others here. The reality is that it is all a matter of time, once they leave you... to the bigger world, you have very little control over thier choices and then you get to see how well they pick. I think some kids just have to learn the hard way, whether it be shoes or drugs and some kids watch others and just know. I didn't have a lot of rules but I knew if I ate too much junk, I would feel lousy; if I stayed out too late, I would be tired the next day; if I did drugs it would likely mess up my life. Of course I forgot, if I got pregnant young... that one I did learn the hard way. I appreciate all the conversation but I really doubt there is a right way- there is just you and yours and what feels best. Dumb answer, but its all I really have.

Maureen
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#82 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 02:40 PM
 
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I really doubt there is a right way- there is just you and yours and what feels best. Dumb answer, but its all I really have.

And congrats on sticking by your son thru that journey. That must have been difficult. I think you deserve a lot of credit for the great person he has grown to become! Oh, please, let us not be judged by our children's darkest hours!!!! If we must be judged, let it be by their brightest moments
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#83 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 03:43 PM
 
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And you can choose to call your guidance anything you like but it I'm reading much more similarities than differences in the way we control certain things. Some of us just say we don't call it that. We call it a lifestyle choice or a principal. I feel like it's control and so I call it that.

Does anyone feel what I'm saying? What is the significant difference for those of you who do guide things like toys, food, safety, tv but don't use the word control.

I'm just finding this interesting because I'm one of the least controlling parents I know and practice quite a bit of TCS and was raised with very limited control. I feel lumped into this 'control' group (and occasionally even a little talked down to) when I feel that we practice the same measures for helping guide our kids. I just don't have a big problem with the word.

(I haven't read beyond this response)

I'm in agreement that what others call principles, only have rules regarding safety, etc are all forms of control. Honestly, it really gets my goat when I hear this. Yes, you do have rules/principles, etc and that's ok!
I think it feels better to people to call it something else, maybe because the word "control" is equated to the idea of something being enforced with a negative spirit.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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#84 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 03:51 PM
 
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Posting as I go...

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Originally Posted by monkey's mom
I know my child doesn't resent 'no' when there is a logical explanation behind it.
How does this address the issue of control though. Just because a child doesn't resent the control doesn't mean it's not control, kwim?

I had been thinking of this along. I think you can control your child ~ to a fault even and not have a 'fight' with the child.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#85 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 04:06 PM
 
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Thank you, mama for bringing something into this conversation that was lacking.

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Originally Posted by MsMoMpls
I think some kids just have to learn the hard way, whether it be shoes or drugs and some kids watch others and just know.
Our children are all different...HOW could we forget that when discussing this. The reality that I feel really bad for not remembering is that some of our children may crave guidance, will accept our word for it and will even feel comforted by control. Other kids will have to learn for themselves, reject our experiences and feel trapped when we try to control them.

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#86 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 05:28 PM
 
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Thank you, mama for bringing something into this conversation that was lacking.



Our children are all different...HOW could we forget that when discussing this. The reality that I feel really bad for not remembering is that some of our children may crave guidance, will accept our word for it and will even feel comforted by control. Other kids will have to learn for themselves, reject our experiences and feel trapped when we try to control them.
I AGREE!!
it really is a learning experience, and I think our kids will be fine as long as we leave enough space to learn with them and change as we need to. Not to be rigid, but try to give them what they need-- ( I guess this is kinda obvious!!! but wrote it to myself so i could read it, maybe!! thanks for the great discussions mamas!)

homeschooling mama to 8 yr old biggrinbounce.gif with a new little one(5-5-2011) babyf.gif...  h20homebirth.gif

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#87 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 05:36 PM
 
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Posting as I go...



How does this address the issue of control though. Just because a child doesn't resent the control doesn't mean it's not control, kwim?

I had been thinking of this along. I think you can control your child ~ to a fault even and not have a 'fight' with the child.
Ahh, I see...I guess because it's not about the resentment or the fight, it's about the logical explanation. I firmly believe that kids are logical, bright creatures and given the opportunity will make appropriate choices.

gotta run...
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#88 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 05:47 PM
 
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it really is a learning experience, and I think our kids will be fine as long as we leave enough space to learn with them and change as we need to. Not to be rigid, but try to give them what they need-- ( I guess this is kinda obvious!!! but wrote it to myself so i could read it, maybe!! thanks for the great discussions mamas!)
Not only are our kids all different, but we are so different. If someone could prove to me that my kids really did need a really controlling mom, I still don't think I could do it because it just isn't me. I would feel really dishonest parenting in a way that wasn't who I am. How would that be best for anyone?

Maureen
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#89 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 06:03 PM
 
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Ahh, I see...I guess because it's not about the resentment or the fight, it's about the logical explanation. .

Alright, I don't really get this.

Could we discuss conflict and control a little here? We have relatively little conflict in our family live. I try really, really, really...REALLY hard to to think about everything I ask of my child. I take 'control' very seriously. I would never force her to do some random thing out of some control trip.

But, I do control her by my definitions. Maybe I just have a really broad definition of control. For me, not letting her take her own shoes off of her own body on the mountain is control...whether or not she is really upset by it and whether or not my reasons are logical, yk?

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, I still don't think I could do it because it just isn't me.
MMM, not to kiss your tail too much here but I also agree with this.

I'm not sure how relevant this issue is to this thread but I think that accepting and loving ourselves as mothers/parents is a wonderful topic. For the most part, I am who I am...I can't really parent much differently than I do. Good topic...maybe I'll start a thread.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#90 of 105 Old 01-20-2005, 08:42 PM
 
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I'm not sure how relevant this issue is to this thread but I think that accepting and loving ourselves as mothers/parents is a wonderful topic. For the most part, I am who I am...I can't really parent much differently than I do. Good topic...maybe I'll start a thread.
I agree, I read books and these threads and observe actual life experiences -and I take and choose what is useful and feels right to me. I would never accept some way that did not feel right in my heart, even it was unorthodox. I follow my intuition mostly. I look at what other people do and see how their kids react and if what they are trying to do in the end actually works with the means they use. I try not to be judgemental because I know people judge me all the time, and in some peoples views I am not doing the right or healthiest thing (like the whole issue of cosleeping, for instance -- we cosleep and are happy with that arrangement- but my inlaws really look down on me for this and they are a little taken aback b/c I am still bfing ds......... but those are a whole nother story!! )
I am who I am but I am a work in progress, KWIM?

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