My Dad spanked DS - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 03-28-2005, 02:42 PM
 
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Regarding the law, I furthermore believe that it IS illegal to spank someone ELSE's child. I think it would be considered assault. Otherwise, strangers in the grocery store could just walk up and spank your kid, couldn't they? Or you, for that matter.

I'm so sorry you're going through this! I agree that you have some issues of your own to work out with your father and I would NEVER, EVER leave your DS alone with him again!
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peaceful herbivore
See, it is those blurry lines that bother me. Spank, swat, hit, slap on hand etc...to me, it is all the same---to other people I realize it is different. That is why I am careful when speaking to other people in my wording--I inform them that no one will TOUCH, touch, in any way other than in love, my child, and no, hitting, swatting, etc is not love...

...because some people will honestly say "I didn't hit them, I swatted them!" and seriously in their minds think that they were honoring your wishes!! Believe it or not....so you have to be painfully clear sometimes. You shouldn't have to I know, but sometimes it is neccessary.
This is so true. We were at GMIL's house last year and my DD was climbing on top of a footstool. So she's on something that is both not high and meant to have feet on it but for whatever reason GMIL decided DD just should not be on it which whatever it's her house. Anyway she said in a playful sort of voice "get down from there" and bopped DD on the head and then did it again a minute later. It was clearly not done with a disciplinary intent but that's not how I want instructions to be reinforced to my child. So I said "please don't hit her on the head again." She launched into a big debate with me over whether or not she had hit her. I said "ok please don't bop her on the head." She continued protesting and said how DD was not hurt (very true) and if she had meant to hit/hurt her we'd know it and :blab:. I finally said "ok whatever it is you would like to call what you just did to her head please do not do it again." She then wanted to go into a huget thing about how if I didn't want her to touch DD ever that was all I had to say etc. She then wanted to "tell me something" about how much I'm messing up with DD and I simply refused to debate her. I said I wasn't going to argue with her about it but that she simply could not touch her to get her to do something. There's no point in arguing with her about it but yeah I couldn't believe what a huge scene she made over this. She was clearly spoiling for a fight on the issue though because she'd already made a few remarks here and there earlier in the visit as she has on other occasions when visiting us. Quite honestly I don't care what they think since she's my child but they may not touch her to discipline her period.

On the issue of legality it may be true that a swat on the bottom is technically assault and illegal but I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who would press charges for it.
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LooseyLu
I don't think that your father can ever understand that, and he may never recognize that spanking is wrong. I emphatically DISAGREE with those posters who have said that you should force your father to admit that spanking is wrong. You can't control his thoughts and beliefs, but you have every right to control his treatment of your son.
It doesn't matter whether he thinks spanking is right or wrong. It only matters whether he spanks or hits.

Though in this case, for the sake of their relationship, it would be better if he would tell her that he was wrong for hitting her when she was little. But I wouldn't make that a condition of an ongoing relationship. As I have found with my mom, and as many of us have found, the parents who didn't have the self-control to stop themselves from taking their anger out on us when we were little and helpless, can't stop themselves now, either.

Divorced mom of one awesome boy born 2-3-2003.
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by coopnwhitsmommy
This touched on something I hadn't thought of. You're right I am afraid of my Dad Not only did he hit me, but he's HUGE 6ft 6 and over 300lbs. Which is strange because he's sick and can barely walk anymore...so why am I afraid of him? Everytime I'm there I remember the beatings. He threw me to the ground once because I handed him the wrong screwdriver, I remember him choking me, I remember him pushing me around and screaming in my face for eating the last dill pickle that he had wanted...like I could know that! I am afraid of him. I should probably explore these feelings.

: JMO, but I think if that were my parent I would NOT let him be with my children, at least alone, not even for a second. After all the things he's done to you, I feel that your children are at risk by being near him. He did it right in front of you. Imagine what he could or would do if you weren't there. You need to tell this man that what he did to you, and what he did to your son was WRONG, and that it is NEVER to happen again. If it were me and it happened again I would cut ALL TIES to protect my children. JMO.
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Old 03-28-2005, 03:33 PM
 
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To the op...you are much calmer than I am!! Anyone hits my child and they will be in so much pain. I have no problem throttling another adult. Its just my instinct. Protect baby first..deal with others second
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:07 PM
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I would tell him that if he spanks your child again you will no longer visit and that all discipline matters are to be handled by you especially when you are around. It is probably a control issue with him. Unless you are okay with him doing this I would put up guidelines immediately. Let him know that what he did was wrong and that you are an adult and your child's mother and you will not have him taking over your job even if he doesn't agree with how you do it. You may consider telling him how his actions made you and your child feel and that if he wants to have much to do with your family he will need to learn to acknowledge feelings other than his own. I agree that he should also make a sincere apology. Also, when you are around him and your child is doing something that he may go over the edge about you should quickly step in and not allow him the opportunity to handle any discipline. We have a set of grandparents that we do not allow our child to see unsupervised (including in the next room over) because they discipline in ways we don't approve of, this has helped us not get to the point where they will discipline her and I am hoping it will stay that way.
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:21 PM
 
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Anyone who raises their hand to my child will not be allowed around him EVER again- there is no second chance- if you hit my child, that's it. That may sound intense (and doesn't sound like something OP wants) but I was hit alot as a kid and it will NEVER happen to my son. My mom (the offender) knows this and while I can't imagine her ever touching my son (I think she really regrets what she did to me and db) she knows that's it if she does.

Why?

Because ultimately this isn't about me or her, it is about my son. He will never have to be around anyone he is afraid of. While I do agree that writing a letter/email to the OP's dad is a great idea, I want to bring us back to her son-- ultimately this is about our kids. Of course, our own histories are a part of how we react, etc. but we need to protect our kids, however each of us defines that.

Just wanted to add that although I have never used this argument with a family member, in a hypothetical discussion with a colleague I pointed out that I would treat my child being hit/spanked/whatever-it's-all-violence-to-me by a relative the same way I would a stranger-- I'd call the police etc. and hope this makes a strong point to the offender that they are being abusive, etc.
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Old 03-28-2005, 05:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abac
Actually, it is illegal in these countries:Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Germany, Italy, Cyprus, Croatia, Israel and Latvia. In Canada, it is illegal to spank anyone not between the ages of 2 and 10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richelle
Regarding the law, I furthermore believe that it IS illegal to spank someone ELSE's child. I think it would be considered assault.
Well, you learn sumthin new every day...
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:37 AM
 
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I don't even think people who use spanking as discipline allow other people to hit thier kids.
Your dad needs to be told that he can not hit your son EVER. Debating the merits of not spanking will probably be lost on him. I'll bet you will feel empowered b/c you couldn't protect yourself from him so many years ago but you CAN protect your child.
If your son does not want to visit grandpa for now I would not force him. You can even tell your dad that DS is frightened of him now and is't ready to see him. Maybe he will get the message that way.

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Old 03-29-2005, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My Dad has apologized for many things that went wrong in my life, that were his fault (my parents are keisters basically) I don't know if he has apologized for hitting me. But it doesn't matter really. I love him, and he's dying, he's 46 and has had half a dozen heart attacks, a stroke, and a kidney transplant, he is in the end stages of type 1 diabetes. I'm not going to deprive him, me, or my children of a relationship. I'll just have to be more vigilant and speak to him about not spanking. Ds loves his Papa and I think it would be more damageing in the long wrong to break that bond.
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:06 PM
 
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Old 03-30-2005, 02:24 PM
 
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To the OP, I'll add that your childhood story reads just like mine. My dad had always been larger that life to me, as he was very violent. Then one day I was about 21-22 and he was visiting - an extremely rare event. He "jokingly" shoved me while I wasn't looking and bounced off of me and fell. I had been training martial arts for a couple of years at that point, and had become used to my own strength - or at least to the idea that I even HAD strength. It was a huge thing for me to realize that he was, in reality, a very weak man. He had always been, and had used me as a punching bag because I was helpless. I had thought of all that before this event, but I *felt* it for the first time and *understood* it finally.

Fortunately, I worked through these issues pretty well before I had a kiddo. I am adamant that my DS will not be exposed (without strict parental supervision, and only when necessary) to dangerous people until he is capable of defending himself and chooses as he will. I don't care a rat's behind how those dangerous people feel about it. My child does not exsist to bring them pleasure - or to help them avoid the discomfort they feel when faced with sanity.

I see this situation with my step-father and his grandchildren. It sickens me. He is also a stoke patient. He was violent with me as a child, has no remorse - in fact, thrives in my mother's denial of his abuse. The whole family tries to use the children as a way of "bringing him out of his shell" or therapy, or something. I see my step-nephews cringing and sqiurming with fear when they are forced to sit with grandpa. He is rude, inappropriate, and makes them feel awful. I do not allow my son to be used in that way, and it causes great upheaval in the family. Guess what... I don't care!

I encourage you to explore your issues further. It will be enlightening, terrifying at times, relieving, and most of all healing to you and your little one.

Hugs!
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Old 03-30-2005, 02:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hipumpkins
I don't even think people who use spanking as discipline allow other people to hit thier kids.
Sadly most people I know who spank have no problem whatsoever with other people spanking their kids. Now maybe if some random stranger did it they'd be pissed but if you are allowed to watch their kids you're allowed to spank their kids.
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by coopnwhitsmommy
My Dad has apologized for many things that went wrong in my life, that were his fault (my parents are keisters basically) I don't know if he has apologized for hitting me. But it doesn't matter really. I love him, and he's dying, he's 46 and has had half a dozen heart attacks, a stroke, and a kidney transplant, he is in the end stages of type 1 diabetes. I'm not going to deprive him, me, or my children of a relationship. I'll just have to be more vigilant and speak to him about not spanking. Ds loves his Papa and I think it would be more damageing in the long wrong to break that bond.
nak

after reading all of this thread, I agree with you Becca. I feel for your situation but don't deprive your ds of his papa. Just talk to your dad about your views on spanking...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt...he was frustrated with ds about getting up so many times, he's tired, sick... good luck!!
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Old 03-31-2005, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for all of your suggestions. I'm still learning how to go about "standing up" to my parents. It's hard I don't want by kids to grow up in fear as I did. The big problem is I am STILL afraid. It's so hard Thank you again for your kindness and helpful suggestions I guess I will just have to Learn how to be assertive.
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:09 AM
 
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Do your parents know you have always been afraid of them and are still afraid of them?

What do you think would happen if you sat down and told your dad that you are scared of him. Would that upset him, would it bother him? To someone who is a total control freak, it might satisify them to know that they had power over you. To a loving parent who just didn't have very good parenting tools, it might be a real wake up call and it might facilitate some healing communication. Only you know what sort of guy your dad is.

I never had grandparents growing up. Three of them were gone by the time I came along and the last one I never knew because my mother didn't like her (my dad's mother). I do regret that I didn't have any grandparents. A grandparent/grand child relationship can be so special but it does need to be healthy. I think it is great that you are trying to make a connection between your ds and your father. From here on out, you now know that it will take alot of supervision from you to keep ds from experiencing fear.....but maybe talking about your fear would bring about some changes.

Best wishes!

"To err is human, to forgive, canine." - Unknown
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