Wow! Wow!!! and did I say WOW!!!!!!!!! - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Took the girls to the store this afternoon. Both were well fed and rested, thought it would be an easy trip. Ugh. What a joke. Running all over the store, acting like animals in the zoo at feeding time. I was getting so very, very, very angry.

The final straw. We left. DD (3) said "I want to go down the ramp" I said "No, I want you to walk with me to the car." She looked at me and took off running down the ramp. I got down before her, and at the bottom, I was kneeling down. DD(2) crying in my arms because she didn't get to go down the ramp. I looked her right in the eyes and said "I am very disappointed that you didn't listen to me." and I stood up. I took her hand and started walking to the car. She just skipped along, nothing bothering this girl, etc. We get in the car. I buckled them into their carseats. I got in and started the van. We started to pull out and I hear "Mommy?" in this whispering, questioning tone. I look back and she's almost in tears. I pull back into the parking space and get in the back. "What's the matter, honey?"

Sniffle. pause. Sniffle. "Mommy, I'm sorry I didn't listen to you. I'll try to do better next time."

!!!!!
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#2 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 05:00 PM
 
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S-swe-e-et! Those are the moments that make all of our efforts worth it
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#3 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 05:14 PM
 
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Yay! A lovely story to share, thanks!
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#4 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 05:39 PM
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"I am very disappointed that you didn't listen to me."
Maybe I am going to be flamed and the voice of dissention here-- and firstly, I am glad your daughter apologized...however, that phrasing makes me uncomfortable. To me, it is a bit manipulative...kind of like whether you are happy or sad inside depends solely on what your child does or doesn't do.

Was the ramp a safety concern? You said that by the time she was even down in, you were at the bottom...so I gather not. Was it just that you didn't want her to run down the ramp because she didn't behave in the store? Why not just let a kid run down a ramp?

I am not trying to be combative AT ALL... these are just the things I consider when choosing my battles...with children and with people in general...

Take care

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I look back and she's almost in tears.
...then it seems like you are all happy that you upset her? (at the end of the post)

I don't see this as GD personally...
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#5 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 05:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain crunchy
...then it seems like you are all happy that you upset her? (at the end of the post)
Wow, I did not get this feeling from the OP at all. Mama sounded concerned and stopped the van to attend to her daughter. Nothing indicated she was happy about her daughter being upset.

May be the phrasing "I am disappointed that you did not listen to me" could be adjusted, but I would not hide the fact that I am disappointed by my kids actions sometimes - it's life. Just like we should not make them feel that their action dictate how we feel all the time, we should not hide the fact that their actions do have impact on us.
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#6 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 06:00 PM
 
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same here CC. I think it is alright to voice how she feels.

I also don't think she was happy she upset her dd. I think she is celebrating a victory of her dd understnading what went wrong, and awknowledging her moms feelings ( which so does not happen often! in my life anyways)
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#7 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 06:40 PM
 
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cc..i'm more with you on this one. i save my "i'm disappointed" for when i'm REAAALLLY disappointed! kids love ramps..i usually spend time with dd on ramps whenever i can because she loves it. when we can't i say..i'm sorry, i know you love running up and down ramps but we are in a big hurry today so we have to go straight to the car (if she cries and screams that's fine with me...sounds like it's not for many who tout themselves as GD).

not to hijack your post but i guess i've been a little fed up lately with this board. i sometimes feel that my ideas about GD are very different than the majority here...it seems for most it's still about controlling behavior and expecting kids to act in ways that aren't developmentally achievable for them (like expecting a 3 yo to quietly walk beside you in a store and not want to explore etc.) but the control is achieved in a "gentle" way. although I would argue that the whole "i'm disappointed" scolding type stuff isn't gentle at all.
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#8 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 06:56 PM
 
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(like expecting a 3 yo to quietly walk beside you in a store and not want to explore etc.)
My child 2.5 and I expect her to walk with me and she does she stops and looks and comments about things she runs ahead a few steps or lags behind a step but I do expect her to listen to me and to coperate if not they she can stay in the cart or stroller or in my arms. Oh and I expect her to talk the entire time I also keep things in perpective going to the market for milk and bread walk going for $200 worth of grocceries use a cart...
If we have a bad day trip well then we had a bad day. I don't say you dissapointed me because I have controll over my own feelings my childs not responsible for them. I will say you had trouble listening to me we need to practice our listening skills. I'll also make sure I add some "listening skills" games at home things like reg light green light stop go games, follow the leader, gentle touches.
GD isn't about controlling behaviors but it is about teaching. I hold my children to a high standards no more than they are developmentally able to but I do hold the bar high.

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#9 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well.

I guess I should have been more specific in my original post. I never thought I would have to defend myself as GD.

I *did* let them explore in the store. I got angry because they weren't following even the simplest directions. I also, normally let them run and play on the ramp, but we were on a schedule and with as much time as they spent *exploring* in the store, we didn't have the time for them to play as they usually do. I never said I was sad or unhappy or happy or anything. I told her I was disappointed, which was true. I was not manipulating her, I was allowing her to see that her actions effect those around her. I am not, nor will I, defend myself.

What I was celebrating (I'm sorry, but if you thought I was happy that she was upset,.....well, nevermind!) was that *she* has come to an age of maturity to see that her actions affect others. She didn't react when I told her I was disappointed, it was only when she had a moment (after being gently buckled into her carseat...just in case someone wants to read between the lines again) to think on the moment. She realized that she was misbehaving....WITHOUT PUNISHMENT. I was, in my original post, not only celebrating her maturity, but also, letting others that *might* be struggling with this know that there is that light, that knowledge that they are internalizing the lessons.

And maybe, just Maybe, I was celebrating my being able to handle my anger and frustration in a mature manner as well.

But nevermind.
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#10 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:10 PM
 
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Just saw this and I can't pass this up.
I thought your story was inspiring. You handled it in a gentle way.
I have been to the store may times when my kids have ran around like crazy and haven't even acknowledged my existence. It can be extrememly frustrating. Exploring is one thing but there are safety issues in many forms and I expect to be able to have their attention.
As far as the ramp is concerned, I think the fact that you got down on her level and explained how you felt is a tool she can learn from. You controlled your anger and expressed yourself.
I posted here a long time ago about my horrible trips to the store with my children only to get "maybe you shouldn't take your children to the grocery store". WHAT? There were suggestions of hiring a sitter or getting a friend to watch my children when I went to the store. THIS is GD advice. I have not visited this forum since. But I couldn't pass up your story.
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#11 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:28 PM
 
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#12 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:29 PM
 
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Holy crap, sometimes I feel like nothing is good enough for some of the people in this forum.

I thought the op had a good story. She was certainly happy with it, at least until everybody had to rain on her parade.

For crying out loud.

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#13 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:32 PM
 
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I am wondering when this pissing contest is going to stop captain crunchy? It's getting really old.


THAT is why I hate coming to this forum. Because of the, your not GD enough BS. I am as gentle as I know how to be. Do I make mistakes? You bet! Don't you?But you can bet, that no matter what mistakes I do or don't make, they are all done with the 100% respect and love of my daughters'. That GD enough for you?
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#14 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:34 PM
 
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Oh I thought I was great your child was able to be so mature and without any fear of punishment. I think you kept your self in check too would I have chosen diffrent words yes but I still think you did great. Just wanted you to know in case my last post came out weird.

Deanna

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#15 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:41 PM
 
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I thought your story was inspiring and sweet. You didn't lose your temper even though I'm sure it wasn't easy, you kept you cool and spoke calmly, you addressed her feelings when she started to show that she was upset. In short - you did good Momma! Go you!!!!

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#16 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:42 PM
 
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I just don't know what to say.

To the OP- good for you!

To the "dissenting voices"- get over yourselves. No one crowned you the Queens of GD and the OP wasn't asking for a play-by-play analysis of what you thought she did wrong. It's not like she duct-taped the kids to the roof of the car for heaven's sake. : Or even yelled, or punished, or lost her temper.

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#17 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by APMom98
What I was celebrating (I'm sorry, but if you thought I was happy that she was upset,.....well, nevermind!) was that *she* has come to an age of maturity to see that her actions affect others.
That *is* wonderful! And yes, ignore those who are being rude and picking apart your post. (psst, I'm guessing they don't have three small children and are solo for months at a time )

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And maybe, just Maybe, I was celebrating my being able to handle my anger and frustration in a mature manner as well.
I celebrate too whenever I feel I have done this. Good for you mama.
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#18 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:52 PM
 
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burke-a-bee, I haven't posted here since March, but I have come back just to support you and the original poster here. Suggestions of hiring a babysitter or not going to the grocery store make me LOL. I remember you burka-a-bee and I know what you are talking about.

and to APMom98, and I know what it is like to take more than one child to do errands that are a necessity not a choice.
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#19 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 09:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LittleLime
it's still about controlling behavior and expecting kids to act in ways that aren't developmentally achievable for them (like expecting a 3 yo to quietly walk beside you in a store and not want to explore etc.) but the control is achieved in a "gentle" way.
I don't want to add fuel to the fire here, but this comment really struck home with me. The thing that bothered me about the OP's story was how she said she was disappointed that her DD "didn't listen" to her. I use phrases like this myself with my own DS, and I always cringe inwardly when I hear myself saying it.

I really, really want DS (and DD) to grow up to be a critical thinker. I don't want him to follow blindly, I want him to be able to analyze and think for himself. This seems to be in direct contradiction to my desire, sometimes, to just want him to obey me. To just listen to me and do what I say, because I am the parent.

Maybe it would have been better to leave off the disappointment and the "you didn't listen to me" comment and come at it more from an "imparting information" angle - "That was dangerous, you could have been hit by a car" or, "I need your cooperation right now to help me get these groceries to the car," something like that.

This is not meant to be a criticism of anyone's GDness. Just something I think about.
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#20 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:04 PM
 
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Wow. Is this the Gentle Discipline forum???
My goodness.....I don't know what to say. : I'll make sure not to make any waves here.......:

APmom98 - I get what you were saying and I celebrate with you - you were having one of those moments when your dd's just make your head spin - but you held it together and IMO kept your daughters dignity intact, even when your reserves were low. Your dd sounds like a cutie patootie.
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#21 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fmb
I really, really want DS (and DD) to grow up to be a critical thinker. I don't want him to follow blindly, I want him to be able to analyze and think for himself. This seems to be in direct contradiction to my desire, sometimes, to just want him to obey me. To just listen to me and do what I say, because I am the parent.
I see what you're saying but my family follows a "family centered" approach rather than a child centered one. (not implying that's anyone's approach btw). To me it's natural and desirable for the family to function together as a unit. Safety is in everyone's best interest and running away from mama is never safe. I'm not trying to sound like my way is the best or anything but my kids never sit in the shopping cart. They *do* walk along side me in the grocery store and if they're too little to do that they are in the sling. What I'm saying is that many children *are* capable of this (a three year old for sure) and I don't see anything wrong at all with a mother expecting her children to stay near and expressing her feelings of dissapointment/frustration w/the child not doing so.

My point is all families do things in different ways. We really need to accept eachother more. Because my children are expected to stay near mama doesn't mean they will follow along w/the sheeple and never have their own ideas. It is part of what I teach them about safety and families cooperating together.

As long as it's gentle and does not hurt or endanger anyone, I think we should all support whatever mamas are doing that works.
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#22 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:10 PM
 
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That is great, AP Mom! I think the fact that your daughter did not say sorry right away, but thought about it, shows that she was really thinking about her actions & she regretted not listening to you. She is growing up to be a fine young lady.

Of course, you are struggling with a 2 year old & a 3 year old, if you had given her $5 to stay with you, I would still be proud of ya! (I have one child, a six year old son, & sometimes it is all I can do to make it out of the store without pulling all my hair out! )
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#23 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:10 PM
 
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I have three kids ages 5, 21 months and nearly 5 months. Going to the shop with all of them is usually reserved for days when Im feeling especially masochistic. Its a nightmare in all honesty! I dont drive so we walk. Trying to get through what I need to at the shops while trying to answer a zillion "why" questions from my 5yr old, keep my 21 month old from standing up in the pram and tipping it over (yes, I use a pram ) while carrying baby in a sling is NOT easy!! I often feel like I want scream and rant and stomp my feet! It takes a lot to remain calm and try to please everyone without causing tantrums and hurt feelings. And sometimes I get nasty looks from others (usually without kids) because I don't treat my kids like mini-soldiers and expect them to not touch or explore.

I for one appreciate reading posts like the OP - it DOES give me hope! I have these moments too and it makes me feel like celebrating myself!

And as far as wording goes - I personally expect my dd to tell me when something I do makes her feel dissapointed and that includes me not listening to her. When she feels like she can be heard she will hear me too. Its a two say street.
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#24 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
I have three kids ages 5, 21 months and nearly 5 months. Going to the shop with all of them is usually reserved for days when Im feeling especially masochistic. Its a nightmare in all honesty! I dont drive so we walk. Trying to get through what I need to at the shops while trying to answer a zillion "why" questions from my 5yr old, keep my 21 month old from standing up in the pram and tipping it over (yes, I use a pram ) while carrying baby in a sling is NOT easy!! I often feel like I want scream and rant and stomp my feet! It takes a lot to remain calm and try to please everyone without causing tantrums and hurt feelings. And sometimes I get nasty looks from others (usually without kids) because I don't treat my kids like mini-soldiers and expect them to not touch or explore.

I for one appreciate reading posts like the OP - it DOES give me hope! I have these moments too and it makes me feel like celebrating myself!

And as far as wording goes - I personally expect my dd to tell me when something I do makes her feel dissapointed and that includes me not listening to her. When she feels like she can be heard she will hear me too. Its a two say street.
You rock Raven! That's what I wanted to say.
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#25 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
I have three kids ages 5, 21 months and nearly 5 months. Going to the shop with all of them is usually reserved for days when Im feeling especially masochistic.
:LOL Teeheehee!

Quote:
And as far as wording goes - I personally expect my dd to tell me when something I do makes her feel dissapointed and that includes me not listening to her. When she feels like she can be heard she will hear me too. Its a two say street.
: Exactly!
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#26 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:27 PM
 
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APmom, you handled it beautifully!

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#27 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
Its a two say street.
great typo, if it was one, lol

oht - trying to rock dd to sleep

i get what you all are saying - i know i sound critical of the op and i honestly don't mean to be, what she did was fine, really, and i am mainly being academic about this. but imo it wasn't that her dd wasn't listening - she heard her fine, she just didn't do what her mama said to do. her dd looked right at her (the op said) and did the exact opposite of what she had asked her dd to do. there is a diff. between not listening and not obeying
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#28 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:50 PM
 
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yes famous, but there was a history of the child acting up in the store "running wild" ect...I think the statement could have applied to the whole behavior.

But I could be arong too. I will wait and see what the OP says. :
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#29 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:54 PM
 
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After reading your OP I thought you did a wonderful job. Congratulations!

Several of the responses have me curious though. I don't personally see any problem with occasionally letting your children know that you are disappointed in their behavior. It seems like an honest emotional response to me. Kind of a logical consequence. I sort of get the idea that 'I am responsible for my own feelings', but it is true that sometimes in life people can do things that disappoint us, make us angry, test our limits, etc... It actually seems kind of dishonest to me to suggest that I should ALWAYS shield my child from emotions I am experiencing. I also wonder, would supressing expression of my frustration/disappointment/etc model a behavior I actually wanted my child to emulate? Personally- I don't think so, but what do you all think? I would ideally like to model a behavior of acknowledgeing emotions (both positive and negative) in a calm and clear manner so that they are not supressed.

I'll be the first to admit that I am not the most GD person in the world, although I do feel that I am a gentle mom. But I haven't read extensively on GD, so please excuse my ignorance on this subject.
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#30 of 80 Old 09-07-2005, 10:54 PM
 
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Thanks for sharing your story! Glad to know I'm not the only one who has frustrating shopping trips sometimes, LOL.

Posting here can be kind of hard, because no one ever gives you the benefit of the doubt EVER, it seems like, and sometimes people act like every post is the very first post you've ever posted, KWIM? I love reading the GD discussions but people do get really nitpicky, especially when this was just a support/vent sort of post.
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